How did we come from this

Or from spamming one button to actually using few spells to maintain acceptable damage. Hm.

frost DK is the best example of why MoP talents suck because Blizzard is obsessed with fucking them over by putting all talents that would synergize with each other on the same tiers to make everything as bland as possible

>this is what blizzard wants you to believe

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SOULLESS
SOUL

maybe read them you zoomer

Thought it was League of Legends at first lmao.

sinking IQs

Bros..

how could we lose such impactful talents..

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Reminds me of Rift

Because it turned out that talent trees were a bunch of stupid filler +% stats that served as an extremely elaborate way to say your character got a new ability or class feature every six levels

You also need to realize that extremely dumb people play these games and if you give them any chance to fuck themselves over they will take it (there were people who just filled in the top of the talent tree for example).

casuals RUINED this game....... its over...

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everyone has 7 tiers of talents but blood is so cool it needs only 6but really just four

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This has way more impact
This is minor % changes and illusion of choice. Wow was never an RPG.

B-but "Strategic Choices™"!

It took MENSA candidates 3 months to optimise the use of these talents....

...they were just too complicated, bros....

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woah such GAMEPLAY

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I think the idea is to make it so that when you pick a talent, you're basically choosing how to augment the same thing within the same tier to make it less about just stacking a ton of different effects to make the optimal build.

That ignoring that doing exactly that is what most people find fun about WoW in the first place.

Why the fuck would anyone take heartbreaker over blooddrinker though.

Good thing the other two on that row are active abilities similar in nature and power to old talent tree final nodes, isn't it retard?

for M+ and off tanking, only MT(haha blood MT) take bloodrinker

Maybe I did that 10 years ago when I played the game, faggot.

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Unrelated, but i find it sad how they gutted Demonology, and also how Destro outperforms both of the other specs with less rotation needed, think lock gonna need some buffs™

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yeah, the ones nobody takes

BD was taken for most of this expac.

95% of those have just become passive effects for the spec in question
the new talent system provides more meaningful choices and customization to your character in the vast majority of cases
the only times this isn’t true are talent builds in the old trees that go half and half in two different specs instead of full on one spec with leftover points in another
these types of builds were extremely rare, sl/sl lock, elementalist mage, ele/resto sham

this. Destro is just fire mage in warlock robes

youtube.com/watch?v=i-4u6gn1r4U&t=1s
never tire posting this

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You really don't either understand the meme or know what 'soul' is.

The format is almost better now than the OP.

However the way it's implemented is not superior. Blizzard needs to not have talent rows, just pick 7-10 talents like the pvp list to allow for more builds.

>nobody takes blood drinker
dude, epic meme

Latter is far better than former, unless you think increasing damage by 1%/lowering cooldown by 1 sec five times in a row = deep min-max competitive building.

The Wotlk DK Talent Tree is sadly more of an exception.
Due to the inherit design of all trees being able to dps and tank, you had a ton of overlap betweeen the three trees that gave you room to mix and match between the trees.

For other classes however, where said overlap between three specs barely existed (like Shaman), those trees really felt flat on their faces as far as cutomization was concerned.
There was never a reason for an Elemental to go deep into Enhance because the majority of talents were obviously focused on melee'ing rather than spellcasting.
Not to mention all those talents valueable to Ele that you'll skip by going deep into Enhance.
However, as far as leveling a character is concerned, the old talent trees beat the new ones by a mile.

there are three ranks, at rank one it is 5%, 15%, 10%, at rank three it is 15%, 45%, 30%.

but hey, I can't expect newfags to understand why the old talents are better, can I?

>NOOOO I WANT MY 5% EXTRA CRIT CHANCE AND MY 2% CHANCE TO MULTIHIT NOT 7 NEW ABILITIES THAT I ACTUALLY HAVE TO USE

>numbers go up is better!!!
ok zoomer

OMG THE PASSIVE DAMAGE INCREASE IS BIGGER THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING

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Explain to me how Blizzard lets most talents in each class' tree be dead for 2+ years at a time. By "dead" I mean you never, ever take them under any circumstances. Why can't these monkeys do their jobs right?

two tiers of talent trees have no useful abilities outside pvp and two more are reserved for passives for most classes I played
talent system is even worse than before now, at least it felt good to get +5% crit

Yeah because bigger numbers mean better talent tree

Fucking retard

God that shit was so annoying
Nu-WoW is extremely based

that's 1% per talent rank, 5% at 5, and that is on top of other modifiers, which compound the effects.

you were shitting in diapers 10 years ago

yeah, fuck sense of progression, we play action game here

Holy shit I didn't know about this, I didn't know Ian was this fucking bad.
As someone who was born and raised into demonology this is sacrilegious.

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Everyone is aware you fucking retard. Its still boring, passive filler.

sick burn bro

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The old trees had the illusion of choice. Most people did the same spec with maybe a total of 3 points being spent differently for utility or flavor. Even the new trees are shit because you still only get efficiency instead of new gameplay options.

They're too scared of trying to balance every class having 3 specs with 5 different playstyles and it hamstrings the game.

He looks dapper for a fat fuck
Like a viscount or some shit

They're pissed that theorycrafters tell people what to play even if the difference is rather small.
>Why balance them if everybody takes the same talent anyway
That's basically their logic why they cannot be arsed to balance talents, they think it's wasted effort.

>cookie cutter build everyone uses
>cookie cutter build everyone uses
riveting!

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>sense of progression
>1% difference in a stat or damage every few hours

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they want simple specs to perform the best, everything semi fun to play is nerfed to the ground

>everybody's skilltree looks exactly the same
to
>everybody's skilltree looks exactly the same

nothing changed

The FIRST mistake was making poorly thought out talent trees where the end talents are too powerful. Warrior is a prime example, any build that doesn't have MS/bloodthirst/SS is basically unheard of since those all fill a very similar sphere without any sensible replacements otherwise. Paladin and rogue trees are examples of better design where useful talents for many use cases are scattered thorough all the trees. Paladin talents are unfocused, and rogue trees basically all have the same goal (do damage) but this ends up being a good thing because it prevents a banal minmax-dictated "pick this, you dumb fuck" talent meta.

The SECOND problem compounds on the first. With TBC and WOTLK they just brainlessly added more talents and spells and shit. The trees ended up being even more bottom-heavy. The second to last tier especially is almost always a joke, containing a single 5-point talent that is so strong that the now-shitty lower hanging fruits in the other trees can't compete. After those, taking the final talent is almost a foregone conclusion, for a single point the benefit is almost always too great to consider otherwise.

The THIRD problem is that passive abilities are almost always from talents. This means that there will be many practically mandatory talents for any spec in the given role (like str/ap to SP conversion for paladin), the skipping of which is not an option. This also means that characters are flanderized further as they must go balls deep in a given tree in order to perform in their given minmaxed, optimized role. So the autistic garbage where you no longer customize your character but choose between Holy Paladin(tm), Protection Paladin(tm) and Retribution Paladin(tm) is a direct consequence of the lack of vision when expanding the talent system in TBC. Ironically, the hunter pet talents in wotlk ended up working better than player talents because they avoided many of the problems above.

uh, yeah?

the talents change what is viable and how you want your kit and rotations to work by putting the power where you want it for what you're building.

I don't see your point.

All you need to do in most cases is just tweak some numbers and you'd make a competetive talent. Why bother though? You don't want to make a class too good or it'll outshine the others.

>I don't see your point.
Of course you don't, shit for brains

Both systems have their strengths. Second one is really easy to re-roll and experiment with. First one allows for much higher optimization. I think vanilla had the talent trees right, that being they didn't lock you into one for most of your points.

You sound like a LFR raider

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I didn't he would actually say it, but he did, Jesus. These are the people you guys trust to balance your game?

Bro it was entirely different bro you had a chance to fuck up bro that's like, soul man, that's soul

new system is easier to balance across how many specs now?
in theory

>that being they didn't lock you into one for most of your points.
Almost every build used the end of tree capstone ability, the fuck are you talking about

36, half of them are broken though

just hit 50 with a dk, redpill me on blooddrinker

there isn’t a single talent row in the entire game that has “no useful abilities outside pvp”

problem is more than 60% of the talent "tree" doesn't work or ever taken now

>half of them are broken though
Every DPS spec is within 10% of each other, with most being within 5%.

"Broken" by retail standards is a tiny variation compared to "straight non-viable" in old wow

it's for single target raiding, DK pull bosses with it, it's meh for dungeons

Because the playerbase is different. You can play with a lot of talents people never take and lose like 1-3% of damage but have more fun if that talent is your jam.

But nobody does, because they're theorycrafting/sim obsessed fucktards despite being normal mode raiders

WoW should just scrap talent trees and make all these things baseline abilities.

>Every DPS spec is within 10% of each other, with most being within 5%.
you need to look up wowlogs or something
but by broken I mean it plays badly most of all