Why the fuck did he betray solidus? Solidus, snake, and ocelot all wanted the patriots destroyed

Why the fuck did he betray solidus? Solidus, snake, and ocelot all wanted the patriots destroyed.

Attached: MGS2-SOL_-_Revolver_Ocelot_(Plant).jpg (518x483, 59.86K)

Different clashing methods for the same results.
Everyone can agree that a problem needs to be solved, but different ways of solving that issue can lead to conflict to which one might ruin everything or actually work.

Why didn't Solidus just run up to Ocelot at that moment to slice him down? Only bullets couldn't hit him.

Because of Liquid hand

That’s Metal Gear for you. Even the Phantom Pain does this. The Patriots are the ultimate enemy except Zero is actually a pretty cool dude that saved Snake’s life so him and Ocelot go along with his plan and Miller is pissed even though he worked with the Patriots in PW himself, so he backstabs Big Boss by working... with the Patriots again that Big Boss just previously worked with to undermine him? That somehow makes them enemies. And even though they hate each other they both end up in Foxhound together as colleagues under Patriot eyes anyway.

Solidus was a pawn, teaming up with him would achieve nothing

In the contest of MGS2 it make sense considering he worked for The Patriots.

In the contest of MGS4 the whole "Ocelot was working for Bibo all along" does make it look retarded

Because Solidus' method wouldn't have worked.
Solidus wanted to kill the Philosophers, he didn't know the Patriots were AIs.

You're backporting a plotline from MGS4 into MGS2. The series retcons left and right, and only keeps a consistent plot within a game.

In MGS2 he's an agent of the patriots. In MGS4 he was against the patriots.

MGS2 was supposed to be the last mgs
Then Kojima had to go full movie director retard with the series...

Attached: 640.png (288x415, 177.58K)

>The plan to destroy the Patriots in MGS4 hinged on Ocelot brainwashing himself into thinking he's Liquid and carrying out his Outer Heaven plan
>The only reason they were able to pass off the idea of Ocelot being possessed by Liquid was because he had Liquid's arm transplanted onto him
>The only reason this was possible was because Grey Fox happened to cut off Ocelot's hand in MGS1, something which none of Big Boss's secret club could have anticipated
So if Ocelot hadn't lost his hand, what was the plan then?

Attached: 1359783791141.png (754x406, 15.47K)

Big Boss never knew the double was Zero's plan. All Ocelot ever told him about the plan's origin was that Ocelot himself was involved in it, nothing about Zero.

>Ocelot brainwashing himself into thinking he's Liquid
I'll never understand this.
What did that achieve?

Last for Kojima, he fully intended to it to go on but hand it off but he kept getting pulled back in.

This.

it fooled the players

>There’s room for only one Snake, and one Big Boss

Literally explains it in the very cutscene that screenshot is from

found this post a while ago that pretty much sums up his motives throughout the games.

>MGS1 - this is where it gets complicated. By this point he has joined up with EVA and Naomi to end The Patriots - hence the deaths of Paramedic and later his deliberate torturing to death of Sigint. However he manipulated Liquid into initiating the Shadow Moses rebellion on orders from Solidus, while also still maintaining his maintaining his position as an agent of The Patriots. He's serving 4 interests at once, all to bait patriots into kickstarting arsenal gear.

>MGS2 - much simpler. Betrays Solidus to maintain cover with The Patriots while beginning his long con to end The Patriots with the "liquid possession". He follows The Patriots orders to the letter while very publicly having split personality attacks that may very well of been the result of his hypnotic suggestion or psychotherapy. Searches for patriots info using arsenal gear and Ray.

>MGS4 - wants to end The Patriots and bring Big Boss back, hoping that Outer Heaven will rise once the Patriots are gone, as society will devolve into a new Wild West. Does this while believing himself to be Liquid Snake. Why become Liquid? Because he's manipulating the behavior of the AIs, he knows they can only repeat patterns over and over again so by making them believe Liquid and the threat of Outer Heaven has returned they will repeat the exact same actions from the Shadow Moses incident and send in Snake - so then they will use The Patriots own pawn to take them out. Nuking JD acts as a decoy plan and also a great back up.

Attached: 1589826341022.jpg (538x777, 126.76K)

>one Snake
>one Big Boss
Why is it that he's talking about these two things like they're philosophical concepts?
Snake was only ever a code name and Big Boss was only ever a title

This. Kojima wrote himself into a corner.

Liquid was actually possessing Ocelot

Yes, in MGS2. In 4 in was just a masquerade after he tinkered with it.

Here's the real question:

Who was the Frenchman?

A lot of people here don't really understand Metal Gear, damn. Ocelot betrayed Solidus because he was maintaining cover with the Patriots. He needed to remain loyal to the Patriots to keep the facade. Ocelot has always been a mole in the Patriots, he secretly wanted to destroy them from the inside.

There's nothing that will convince me that MGS4 isn't the height of plot contrivance and convenience in the series. Liquid Ocelot would have had to have been omnipotent, or aware that he was a character in a videogame to pull the stupid shit that goes on. "I know Snake will succeed, so it won't be a problem for me to send a squad of elite assassins against him, or try burning him to death, or attacking him with my Manta Ray mech, or driving a ocean tanker over him." Pic related is the exact moment that my patience ran out for Kojima's asspulls.

Attached: mt. snakemore.jpg (872x484, 31.78K)

>the only modern model for liquid is mt.snakemore
I kind of hope the rumors of a remake are true

I wouldn't say Liquid Ocelot in MGS4 is just a facade. Compare these, Liquid was actually possessing Ocelot but Ocelot let him and heavily monitored.
>"Later they ripped out her psyche with drugs and hypnosis, and implanted the psyche of Psycho Mantis"-Drebin
>In order to fool system, [Ocelot] used nanomachines and psychotherapy to implant Liquid's personality onto his own"-Big Boss
The methods used to make Psycho Mantis possess Screaming Mantis were used earlier by Revolver Ocelot to make Liquid repossess him. Making yourself a doppleganger of dead person leads to the dead person possessing you if your will submits, Peace Walker and Screaming Mantis are two examples of this. In MGS2, Liquid Snake resides within Revolver Ocelot while using him to enact his secret plan. In MGS4, Revolver Ocelot resides with Liquid Snake while using him to enact his secret plan. Its a really cool parallel, I could talk about it for hours. Other than that, your writeup was absolutely amazing. You answer all the questions that the people in this thread didn't understand, you have a great amount of knowledge regarding Metal Gear

You're a complete moron. The first question Big Boss would ask is who saved me and created this body double? Ocelot wouldn't withhold the fact that it was Zero, it was no secret.

Not really, Liquid had two plans. He wanted Snake to destroy the Patriots with Foxalive and if Snake died along the way, Liquid would continue his original plan. The original plan was that he would destroy JD and take control of the Patriots, using his new position to make the Patriots all kill themselves. Liquid's goals were killing Solid Snake and killing the Patriots. His two plan idea means that Liquid can kill either one of them first and still continue to kill the other

True Answer:

Kojima is a hack and retconned large parts of MGS2 in order to fit into MGS4. In MGS2 Ocelot was a Patriot spy, nothing more.

Lore reason:
Solidus' plan was doomed to failure. There was no "List of 12 Wisemen" because they never existed in the first place (ignoring MGS3's Philosphers who didn't exist yet)

The "Patriots" in MGS2 was the public consciousness of the American people. This manifested in the creation of Artificial AIs who were built to carry out the will of the American people. The Patriots are a set of processes and protocols that exist within the USA.

Attached: download (1).jpg (135x196, 3.69K)

Holy shit, cringe. There is more than MGS than a metanarrative, you would know if you paid attention to the story

>There is more to MGS than a metanarrative

It's written by HIDEO KOJIMA you fuckwit, his entire existence has been meta narrative