Are Frampt and Kaathe secretly on the same side and just manipulating you? As in...

miyazaki has gone on record multiple times stating that he fucking hates sequels and thinks theyre pointless shit. i think he added those statues as a fuck you to the players, seriously. because there is literally no logical reason for the primordial serpents to have statues all over the place

In DS1, they were both trying to prolong the Age of Fire despite what Kaathe tells you. Frampt sends CU to kindle the First Flame while Kaathe produces Dark Lords that become Kings/Lord Souls/Fuel for the subsequent cycles.

In DS3, they are prepping for the Age of Darkness as the First Flame is finally getting burnt out. Frampt is nowhere to be seen and his church order is against linking the flame. Kaathe's order is trying to produce a Super-Hollow which is completely 180 from DS1 Kaathe convincing the CU to gather souls. It's probably to ensure the survival of hollowed humanity in the Age of Darkness.

I think they're pretty much the world serpent, ouroboros in myth, pushing events along and making the world go 'round.

it's an artist interpretation, they never met him. Seeing as the pus of man boosted blue knights have wings, and the pilgrim butterflies, if Kaathe (or ???) was the angelic messenger then they probably wanted to indicate that.
As for the chicken ones in the ringed city, I have no idea.

No, they're actually secretlly both on your side and are manipulating everyone but you.

Humsns as we know them aren't real in souls. There are "humans" who look like us under cartain circumstances

Humans are basically what 'pygmys' became/were before being cursed with the darksign.
Arguably the ringed knights are the most human humans to ever human, but they're still marked like undead hollows.

i also thought why Manus and his people were called human while other inhabitants of Londo, despite looking like humans, were not called humans, even Gwyn looks like human

Because it doesn't matter. Link the flame, don't link it, in the long term it's irrelevant. They're just fucking with you.

Angels are heralds (messengers) of god.

Now, what is frampt?

Humans = Pygmies branded with the Darksign by Gwyn. The darksign gives human "life" and a pretty complexion but also subjects them to "death" administered by Nito. Gwyn and Nito = Life and Death and they are working together to suppress the power of the Dark Soul carried by humanity. "Undeath" is just Gwyn or Nito turning the darksign powers off.

Nito doesn't support the undead as a concept.

Its why he has an entire shrine to restoring human form and removing undead curse in ds2. Likewise, a servant of nito (agdayne) doesn't make a distinction between the undead resting in the undead crypt and typical dead. All are the same to him.

This is one of the few times I can say crazy lore shit
>kaathe doesn't age, he resides in the eternal abyss. Frampt ages, and is going crazy due to the sunlight and the passage of time aging his brain. According to kaathe frampt "lost his sense" and frampt also is way way more silly and less coherent than kaathe. Frampt is a withering snake that sleeps all day. He stays outside his hole too long, he will die of old age. Kaathe had to be murdered.

>their tongues are cut off in the ringed city statues. All of them. We have no idea what their tongues are supposed to look like. The bottom may be an artistic depiction, but they probably knew what the tongue was

Why does Agdayne have Yuria's sword and why is there a painting of Yuria and another chick on the huge dual Shields the imperious knights have.
It's one of the things I did not manage to fully make sense off.

Nito probably had a hand in introducing undeath via the darksign but only begrudgingly. His sort of magic is likely in the rite of kindling for example. After all, he was the one in charge of things dying or not, and I'm willing to believe that his cloak is made up of humanity that he's been keeping for himself.

they're literally the same guy

You can literally see a ton of them lined up at the dark ending in 1.

kaathe does not seem to be lying to you, and with him originally intended as a "secret" path through the game, its likely what he tells you is canon.
Frampt is Gwyn's friend so he helps out with the whole chosen undead shtick.

I subscribe to the idea that the skull ring in Ds3 is referring to a primordial serpent, since 3 includes places they should be (with statues and all) but are absent. If the flavor text is to be believed their only motive is to eat. Frampt may be acting out of genuine friendship with Gwyn, while Kaathe may actually have some interest in assisting humans in rebelling, but the bottom line is they're hungry

those are different guys

what are you guys talking about that humans don't exist? pretty sure straid of olaphis is a human, he says cursed people were sent to drangleic and eventually they started sending over anybody they found undesirable. to me this implies he's still human.

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That shield does not have yuria and friede, it is of organized and reeve (forgivr me I'm doing this from memory). The desc describes them like a Charon or st. Peter figures that gatekeep death.

Dark drift description in ds2
"This katana was originally wielded by the one who gave us first death, and still exists imperfectly between planes"

Dark drift was originally Nitos (or through semantics, the person who killed nito). Why yuria has it is anyone's guess but church of londor has stolen a lot of shadow drangleic things and I think she probably had been to the crypt. The way vendrick talks about darkness unleashing a new curse and the state of man and aldia talking about true form of man and monarch also line up with yuria. She played ds2 lmao.

Or a better answer but more vague: killing someone is severing them as a "master of their world" (read the eye descriptions. When you invade or join the host is a world master. Theres thousands of different worlds and timelines.) The sword that first granted this death defies normal realm logic, and darkwraiths and followers of kaathe are bent on liberating man and unshackling them by invading and beating the "masters". So the blade fits her.

The statues are just idealized idols of (probably) frampt. They're in the ringed city as well, there's a church with fat horrible statues of one and a hole at the altar for one to come through. They stuck around for a while but they're dead now.

That's just descent survival strategy, they don't mean anything bad by it.

I agree, but two things:

He is not a normal case, he was petrified. Also, drangleix is a different land than lordran/lothric. Despite called drangleic the land of humans, also it fell into the abyss and is how we enter it. It probably does allow for humans to visit or inhabit, instead of whatever plane or realm lordran/lothric is

>One of Courland's transposed wonders. Derived from the soul of a Soulfeeder.
>The Soulfeeder was a beast that insatiably absorbed souls to feed its own power. Even after its accursed corpse was burned, it is said that the pungent stench of souls left the air permanently stained.

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Sorry there was some autocorrect on that post, developers called the land of drangleic the land of man.

Makes sense for the sword. But one of the Shields clearly depicts Yuria. I don't know who the other is but it's not Friede. Yuria had another sister. One of them is clearly Yuria, exact same headpiece and haircut. It's like 100% Yuria, just look at this shit. I don't think it's a coincidence. Also the description is interesting, "messengers of the hereafter".
darksouls2.wikidot.com/orma-s-greatshield

So what is the soulfeeder? In a way we are soulfeeders we literally feed on souls to gain power and remain sane.

i remember hearing a theory that Kaathe and Frampt are one snake and they're at each end. I don't think it has anything backing it up but I thought it was cool

>dark hand
"The Darkwraiths, incited by Kaathe, use the power of the dark soul to absorb humanity, an art shared by this weapon, which also acts as a special shield. The ancients, particularly, could sap the humanity of even a replete saint in the blink of an eye."
>the ancients
>age of ancients

"Mask of the Darkwraiths, former knights of New Londo who descended into Dark. Some say the skeletal mask of an ancient Darkwraith is partially fused with the flesh of its face."
>the skulls is a mask, not the face, but its of an earlier form of darkwraith
>the mask is forming into you

"Malformed black armor of the Ringed Knights. The armor of early men was forged in the Abyss, and betrays a smidgen of life.

For this reason the gods cast a seal of fire upon such armor, and those who possessed them."
>abyssal armor is alive, needs a ring of fire to keep it at bay
>the darkwraith armor is absorbing you

>the dark lord hath returnst

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i don't even understand the whole concept of dark. Humanity is just darkness and the abyss is just chaotic humanity.... so why does it turn humans/undead into fucked up monsters?

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I completely forgot about the Soulfeeder in relation to the Serpents. It makes too much sense given their ties to greed, I had been stuck on wondering why Ludleth had it.
The bad smell lines up with Crestfallen & Frampt too.

It is absolutely referring to souls and everyone is a soulfeeder, but the soulfeeder skull has noticeable cheek imprints not found on any other skull. See purging ring for instance, and those do have cursed humans inside of them

Frampt was killed by Ludlith, and Kaathe grew wings and flies now, maybe, at least in an original story draft he did

Because your humanity leaks from your dark sign, and if you lose enough of it, yiu lose yourself and become hollow.

You forgot Kaathe's description of lifedrain "helping" you preserve your humanity while hollow, casting off the shackles imposed on other undead. (via lifedrain, of course)
Presumably the armor just fuses with you and deforms you like the bloatheads or manus.

Kaathe and Frampt are just an allusion on jews
They are driven by greed and their own goals, neither of them believes in the bullshit they are spewing out.

but if that's true why does frampt eat random shit and then give you souls

The skull on the ring has their little floppy ears, and the primary way to interact with the serpents was to feed them things.
The attention to detail when feeding frampt was pretty funny, he'd even deny you payment if you fed him things related to certain characters .

tl;dr it looks like a primordial serpent skull and they loved to eat

No you fool. It is not the dark that does this.

Where there is fire, shadows twist and shrivel. In the abyss there are shadows none. The message of the artorias of the abyss for instance is a bunch of light benders got cocky and opened up a tomb of shit they didn't understand and disturbed a mourning vengeful animal in manus. Manus was passed and afraid and jealous, but he was at peace until disturbed.

Fire is what creates these creatures, then the dark is blamed for the effects.

yeah but what's the goal? you link the fire, you don't link the fire, who gives a shit?

proofs?

I was left with the impression that the winged one was actually Frampt, who led to the angelic faith. The angel who visited Gertrude was Frampt imo. Of course it was considered heresy since Lothric already decided to have gay butt sex with his bro and let the fire fade, can't have a religion that wants to link the fire.

Just before Midir there is the little secret worship room with a statue of Kaathe. I think Kaathe is doing his shady business with Yuria and stuff while Frampt is still sperging out about muh flame.

Gwyn has nothing to do with life. Soul of Life was given to the Witch. And now it uncontrolably spawns demonic mutant life

because they wanted the game to have a selling mechanic. typically he wouldnt pay you much, but he would overpay you for the larger boss souls (taking him to flavortown)