As a girl, you start feeling the need to be attractive around elementary school because that's when you realise how much of an impact it has on everything else in your life. Anything I do with my appearance, hobbies, personality, interests, literally anything about yourself even your voice and stuff, no matter how genuine and earnest it feels, there is always part of you in the back of your head that views yourself as if through the eyes of a man viewing you since you're a young child.
If you do happen to like things men find attractive you are called a pick me, people say you're pandering to men etc, but I have (unfortunately) been exposed to various radical feminist communities online throughout my life and I realise that even if you do what they do in going out of your way to make sure all your hobbies, fashion choices, interests are things that couldn't possibly be sexualised and viewed as 'pandering' to men (which is illogical anyway because almost everything can and has been sexualised) it ends up just going full circle and centring men in everything about you and making the male gaze the dictator of how you live your life, they are still doing everything because of men.
I was just wondering if men feel anything similar to this. Idk how it would be from the male perspective.
No one here feels the female gaze in any positive light, maybe disgust though.
William Barnes
As a fellow femanon I relate to your pain, especially since men have been nothing but cruel to me all my life solely due to my looks
Lucas Young
>people say You can find critics for literally anything. Appeasing the religious fundamentalists of the modern age will get you nowhere because deep down you know it's hocus pocus.
Camden Martin
Woman dont look at me, period. I dont feel presure for something I dont experience.
Ayden Harris
right, im not op, but it sucks when how you look literally decides how youre treated for most of your life
I'm a relatively good looking guy and the only time I noticed people treating me differently due to my looks was when I shaved my head completely. People were overall less polite and women were more standoffish in social situations. The change was literally overnight which was why I noticed it.
Hair grew back and life returned to normal.
Robert Kelly
I like that you can appreciate the irony in radical feminists centering their life around men lol No, men generally aren't concerned about how they look because they aren't "meant" to be paid attention for that. Males are invisible and you take for granted that nobody will ever go out of their way to compliment you or make any comment on your appearance so it becomes a completely second plane background though in the back of your head, amongst the least relevant things you cam be concerned about. I at least feel a lot more concerned about being seen as someone likeable (not obnoxious and not stupid) rather than sexually attractive. When you're a guy looks don't matter much because you can't wear makeup so what you can do to look good is reduced to just getting in shape, having a decent haircut, shaving and wearing decent clothes (and we don't even do so to stand out, we just do to fit in) It's also determined in your height and face so if you weren't born tall and with attractive facial features you have by default a harder time than men who do, but to be frank life as an ugly manlet isn't as terrible as some people make it out to be; you get used to being invisible.
Zachary Rodriguez
I know, my appearance has changed significantly over my life (for the better) and seeing the change first hand just confirmed everything I felt like was true. I'm treated not just better but before it's like you aren't even treated as a human. Like it doesn't matter how interesting and intelligent you are or what you have going for you or whatever literally everything about your life as a woman hinges your appearance.
Cooper Russell
"female gaze" isnt a phrase any man with functional testicles would use but yeah kinda, probably more around puberty (like 10+ years old) you inherently care about how you are viewed from the perspective of the other sex, naturally far before youre taught or learn that warping your persona or appearance around what you perceive women to find appealing isnt really how you earn their attention humans are sexual creatures, it affects every aspect of our social structure, men influence women and women influence men, even in ways we dont actively realize and trying to live contrary to that idea will probably just make you miserable, not recommended
It's interesting to hear your perspective. Complements about my appearance which has nothing to do with my actual character and I just got lucky with feel empty and meaningless, and often have an ulterior motive. Maybe I would feel differently if it never happened, idk. I feel like you take being invisible for granted though, I hate feeling so seen and observed always.
Justin Bell
This is true for men, as well. When I lost like 20-30 pounds people who wouldn't even talk to me were coming up to me more often. It's not just uniquely for women, I think; it's just that people who aren't at least average in attractiveness are subhuman compared to others.
Levi Edwards
Only like 10% of men will ever be attractive to women outside of their money and social status. The female gaze is irrelevant for most men.
Joseph Cruz
I just feel the gaze and the unshakeable need to be unseen
Tyler Anderson
>I was just wondering if men feel anything similar to this. The social pressure for most males works a bit different and is rather schizo, but it is there. Why else would both femnazi and tradguy luddits always spout the "A real man will (insert desired behavior modification here)" line? As a guy you always pressured to act as is most profitable to someone else. Be it your peer group, the company, the girl you have an eye on or society at large. Pretty ironic since in my personal opinion, the guy who will simply not give a fuck if every one else is applauding him is far more a "real man" as he does not let others distract him from his chosen path. He would do whatever he decided on, and if the rest of the world adores or abhors him for that is only relevant as far as that makes reaching his own goal more easy or difficult.
But that theoretical ideal left aside, yeah most guys sure feel a "female gaze" judging all their choices. More so than females I would wager. And the judgment of male peers is even harsher, especially if you make a 'unmanly' choice.
Zachary Scott
I used to be somewhat envious of women for this reason actually. Any hobbies that you have, any interests or opinions, people will automatically consider simply because you're a woman. Like video games? Omg what gamer grrl! Like comic books? Omg I love nerdy girls! Like motorcycles/shooting? Omg she's the perfect gf!
But then I realized how vapid and vain this makes women. They're ambition to actually become interesting and delve deeper into subjects is overshadowed by the illusion that they're actually interesting. It's why so many women have garbage entry level taste in every thing. It's why you see women on twitch have a few star wars plushies on their shelves and call themselves nerds while demanding money simply for being a woman. as a man, you are NOT interesting if you like video games. You are NOT interesting if you're a WWI history buff. You are NOT interesting if you're passionate about modding your car or your bike. But you do it anyway, because you're passionate about it. You don't have that tempting dopamine feeling you get when people say "Wow user you're so interesting for knowing so much about anime!". You learn to realize the simple pursuits of your dreams and hobbies are much more pleasurable than doing them because someone might find you interesting.
That's not to say that as a man you will ever find the joy of pursuing your interests. There's a very big chance that you simply won't be happy with your life because you were dealt a shit hand, and it would seem that at least if you're a woman you would have been accepted. But I think the chance of getting to live your life as a man with no handicaps outweighs the risk of living a vapid life as a woman. Because when you achieve status and admiration from your peers as a man, as an average or even below average man, its probably much more satisfying than it being handed to you because you're a woman
William Cruz
It feels like your perception of what it's like to be a woman is based solely off twitch streamers
Jason Lopez
It's based on the women I interacted with. On dating sites, when i was in highschool/college, at work, etc.
Sebastian Rivera
No. I mean, sometimes I wish I were taller because women seem incredibly judgemental about that.
Bentley Brooks
so do you earnestly think the majority of men have hobbies they are deeply involved in and passionate about? The majority average person male or female has boring hobbies and vapid interests in things. Most normie men have the same 5 hobbies that they are only involved in in a shallow way
Robert Cook
>so do you earnestly think the majority of men have hobbies they are deeply involved in and passionate about? No
Tyler Cox
I agree they do, but what women say about height on social media is really not meant literally most of the time, I don't think it would actually stop most women dating someone they liked, idk maybe some are but I wouldn't actually care about it nor would friends I've spoke to over it
Ayden Edwards
Normies are average to above average, these people live like women with less compliments, their existence centres around the opposite gender, for below average men it doesnt, there are days you feel shitty about being invisible but it is satisfying to achieve goals with very few people, if anyone helping you
Jackson Murphy
but there are many ugly men who are also boring and shallow whose only interests are like porn, gaming and anime or whatever. If you're an autistic woman with some extremely niche hobby then you would also not have anyone helping you or have people care about these things. Idk it seems like more of a autistic vs not autistic thing to me rergarding people who have devoted specific interests they are deeply involved in.
Aiden Sanders
>If you're an autistic woman with some extremely niche hobby then you would also not have anyone helping you or have people care about these things Incorrect. Women will never know what it truly feels like to have absolutely nobody care about you, or be attracted to you, whether physically or emotionally. For women, being lonely and having none care about you is something you'd have to actively achieve, and a very big feat at that. For men, being alone is the default
Owen Wright
people having a patronising and manipulative interest in your well being that extends only as long as you are a potential sexual conquest isn't truly someone 'caring' about you and doesn't feel meaningful in anyway. Most men don't know what it feels like to have *absolutely* nobody care about them or be attracted to them either. Most of the men who are genuinely n this position have also 'achieved' it i.e totally isolating themselves from society, work, school, have no social media to the point where it is literally impossible for anyone, woman or not, to form a connection with them or even meet them. A lot of men also seem unable to tell when a woman is attracted to them physically or emotionally for some reason (partly because women are usually never direct with this as there is a societal pressure that you should let the man make the first move, it is unfeminine etc)
Kevin Anderson
there is no female gaze no one is physically attracted to men as such the "female gaze" is entirely contextual
Charles Scott
if "contextual" chokes you, try "socially constructed"
Aaron Clark
I know that women aren't gazing at me. So I guess it's the opposite kind of feel, where you try to do everything can to appeal to women and they're still not interested.
Owen Wright
>American education terms >British spelling
Anyway, The definition of the male gaze is the enforced and accepted standard of appearance of women from the heterosexual male. It encompasses how they should look, act, talk and by extension, because of their looks, modifies their diet, because of their actions, it modifies their attitude to competitiveness and being docile, because of their communication, it makes them less prone to conflict.
Catherine Hakeem's theory of erotic capital was a pretty interesting take to quantify the effects of it (its routinely picked up by femcels who cannot read or don't understand the associated theories)
Is there a female gaze? Arguably, but it's more enforced in the homosexual community. Why? I have no idea, but you could try and guess that the gender roles enforced in the givers and takers could be the first place to look.
As always, whenever someone brings up the male gaze, the analysis is always anecdotal, or the assumption that pretty girls have it better. I can assure you, each person reacts differently.
Nolan Moore
I feel it's the opposite, I feel women never look at me or aknowledge my existence. Unless you are a Chad you feel like your being is completely unsexualized and disregarded by females. And since I'm autistic and do not approach women I never get to interact with them in any significant way.
We do not feel a female gaze, we experience a serious absence of it
do you find that feeling freeing? I feel like to feel unobserved would be a liberating feeling but I'm not sure.
Elijah Howard
>people having a patronising and manipulative interest in your well being that extends only as long as you are a potential sexual conquest And don't take it for granted. Believe me, there is a very depressing feeling you get when you realize that nobody wants you, even if just sexually. >Most men don't know what it feels like to have *absolutely* nobody care about them or be attracted to them either Half correct, most people in general have at least someone like a friend or partner, but I can guarantee you of the ones that dont, most will be overwhelmingly men. One look at suicide, homelessness and depression rates should tell you that. Also you'd be surprised at how many men actually dont attract women at all. There was a recent study that showed around 28% of men below age 30 had not had any kind of sexual activity within the past year. Also, the reason many men isolate themselves is because they were shunned from the beginning. You are treated as disposable and replaceable. Unless you are higher than your peers, your opinion or participation doesn't matter, and your absence from the community will not be missed. Your problems are irrelevant, and your feelings and needs are a nuisance at best
