Till what extend do you believe we have a (illusion of) free will? What makes you think that?
Till what extend do you believe we have a (illusion of) free will? What makes you think that?
Aiden Stewart
Jacob Walker
Completely. Though we may have extrinsic and intrinsic programming that influences our decisions, in the moment, the choice is always ours to make.
If you dont feel this way, you are a slave to your emotions instead of your will. This will be a problem for you untill you regain self control and break free.
People who sincerely believe we have no free will are usually addicts. As the mystics say "What you believe becomes reality."
And so they truly have no free will because they believe it to be so.
Jayden Hughes
whenever a decision is weighted 50-50 id argue quantum physics will make a random decision for you, which we then could call free will i suppose. a better description would be random will maybe?
Lucas Thompson
I think the universe is deterministic so in the end there is no free will
But I don't think that is an excuse for anything because we don't experience it from that perspective
Josiah Rogers
I believe we have no free will and that we live in a completely deterministic universe that has been determined since the conception of an external observer. All of existence can be mapped as finite state machines.
Andrew Harris
logical thinking is long term rationalization, emotions are short term rationalization, the combination of both will determine the decision that has been already made for you by outside factors. is that really free will?
Leo Cook
At what age does one gain free will? All of the capacities to exert your will in a meaningful way seem to be granted to you by outside forces. Does Free Will extend all the way to coming into existence in the first place?
Jaxon Bailey
Actually, let me rephrase that, it was before an external observer. Since the universe began, maybe even before, if there was some entity beyond our comprehension that put all of this into effect. This image explains it better. Everything's heading towards further and further complex finite state machines, maybe we will reach a state in which we are such a complex finite state machine we will be able to thoroughly free will ourselves into thinking we have free will through the chaotic and random events we generate.
James Moore
free will doesn't exist, but things are so chaotic that it doesn't matter.
whats the concern? that someone is going to use this to their advantage?
Ryan Butler
Fuck I just woke up, I meant 'thoroughly convince'
Thomas Martin
i dont understand the question.
are you asking why i believe we have free will?
why we have an illusion of free will?
why free will is an illusion?
James Morales
No matter if I agree or not, I do like your approach on this. Do you believe that within that free will we are still limited or not at all? And what part of us makes those free decisions according to you?
>at what age does one gain free will
I also would like to see that question answered since I can never come up with a logical answer.
>things are so chaotic that it doesn't matter
What makes you say that, user?
Hunter Smith
there are too many things influencing each other on all dimensions/scales to be deterministic about. the best we can do is make predictions based on recorded trends. this works pretty well.
if 99% of the time you flip a coin it lands on heads or tails, we can say pretty confidently that it will not land on its side, but we can never predict that with utmost certainty.
Carson Smith
how can you be sure addiction stems from the belief in free will and not the other way around?
compare it to monopoly. people who win will think they're winning by their own wits, people who lose will think the game is decided by luck
if you rig the game openly people who win will still believe it's determined by their own skill
Owen Howard
I'm asking if you believe in the concept of a free will and why. The illusion part is my own belief peeking through I guess. I tend to be a bit unclear and vague with my questions, sorry for that
Angel Foster
cont. this is my explanation as to why things are so chaotic that it doesn't matter. I believe if you have all information of the history of the universe and enough time/power, you can predict anything. but it would be so incredibly complex that to calling it impractical would be an understatement.
Ryder Walker
for the sake of clarity i would like to remind everyone to not forget the lessons of quantum mechanics, like virtual particles, schroedingers cat and heisenberg's uncertainty principle and the observers effect when trying to explain free will through physics.
Christian Bennett
therefore we have more proof that randomness exists than proof everything is deterministic
Caleb Rivera
"quantum physicists self admittedly dont know shit"
i deleted the message because i have ocd
i'm going to go full autism on you
randomness and deterministic properties aren't physical things that exist. we describe things as deterministic when we believe we can control them or understand how they are controlled and random when we believe we cant.
David Sanchez
so then, it would be only logical to argue that randomness could exists as long as we are unable to prove otherwise, wouldn't you agree?
Joshua Thomas
what do we mean by 'exist'
Dominic Morgan
you still have to decide at the end of the day. You could do something completely irrational and unemotional if you choose it. Go take the trash out without wearing a shirt in the freezing winter. Do it because you have free will.
>At what age
I dont think something like that crops up at some arbitrary age. It crops up when you gain self control, whenever that is. I think you can gain self control through removal of addictions and vices.
>All of the capacities to exert your will in a meaningful way seem to be granted to you by outside forces
You still have to make moves to make that possible. Moves you decide to make.
>Does Free Will extend all the way to coming into existence in the first place?
Likely. Though i really dont know.
>Do you believe that within that free will we are still limited or not at all?
You are limited by the scale of your knowledge, and base biological needs, but even then you can throw all that to the wind and self imolate if you wanted to. Maybe people have been doing that lately.
>And what part of us makes those free decisions according to you?
The observer. The man between the eyes. You. Me. The man who thinks the thoughts in your head, whoever he is.
>people who win will think they're winning by their own wits, people who lose will think the game is decided by luck
Both people are right. The belief in their own wits people are right because they still have to make decisions. The luck people are right because they lack the capacity to attempt to sway luck because they've given up all together.
>If you rig the game openly
One can still win a rigged game.
Dominic Richardson
with our current understanding things are 'fundamentally random', but this is not an objective truth.
Parker Thomas
I'm not sure. We all think we are making conscious choices but I'm sure many of us here would say life is more happening to us rather than we are making everything happen. I think "we" are probably just a self-aware but ill-informed (about ourselves) observer. One part of our body that determines and controls a few things, but not everything about ourselves.
For me, the real decider would be if the future is predetermined. Which I don't think it is, but I think it is approximately likely to happen a certain way, and your "free will" is for the most part only partially the case.
Luis Sanders
but you choosing to do something irrational would be the rational thing to do if you follow your emotions and vice versa when you ignore your emotions and do something logical instead. its not free will if you have a good reason to chose one thing over the other. no matter if that choice might be logical or emotionally motivated.
that certain elements of our universe have indeed random properties that introduce chaos into our laws of physics, something the limited human mind is unable to understand. why assume otherwise and exclude the possibility?
Nathaniel Collins
You make the false assumption that all emotion is irrational. If I slap you across the face is it not rational to be upset?
>its not free will if you have a good reason to chose
And why not?
Ryder Rodriguez
it was not my free choice to become upset when you slapped me across the face, i was merely reacting to outside factors
there is no truth without proof
Gabriel Robinson
I didnt ask if it was your free choice or not. I asked if it was rational. Please read more carefully.
Mason Morris
well my point was, when are you ever not influenced by outside factors to make the choice for you, like in your example, when exactly do you ever have the opportunity to use this "free will"
Zachary Fisher
>that certain elements of our universe ..
because when something is random to us, it often follows that it becomes predictable.
>there is no truth without proof
nothing can be 100% proven
Levi Watson
Your point doesn't matter, you dont want a discussion you just want to be right. Address the question, and face your cognitive dissonance like a man.