Read Adorno.
Read Badiou.
Read Debord.
Read Adorno
Ryan Martinez
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Samuel Barnes
In recent years he has denounced Badiou and postmodernism and says there's a lot in neo-Catholic theology pulled from medieval scholastic's in relation to the absolute foregrounding of God that has been influencing him a lot and he's found very interesting. Obviously in contrast to the postmodernist "self-enriching subjectivity" which is utter shite and only sounds nice but cancels itself out.
He said it on a reddit ama.
Jackson Morris
True, but their influence is still worth noting and their works are still important and useful and in my opinion fulfilling. Even within a religious framework.
Angel Parker
He's became a lot more religious as of late
Jose Garcia
I don't think he's ever been postmodernist. Marxism and Postmodernism aren't compatible because postmodernism rejects any kind of grand narrative
Blake Reyes
Most of the time there's a middle-ground to be found, taking "post-modern" ideas and synthesizing them with Marxist critiques of capitalism. The same goes for religion and Marxism in general as well.
Lincoln Price
Yet you forget many postmodernists still like marxism. And postmodernism isn't that simple either.
However I never said he was a postmodernist, I get the feeling he's something of a practical character and can see not to just fall into postmodernist gobbledegook. However, he obviously still found much inspiration in it, and Badiou's treatise on art doesn't exactly cancel out Marxism, it really goes along with it quite well.
Lincoln Perez
Of course, their work still has value. But as far as the postmodernist framework goes I find it useless. Everything systematically good in it(if you could even say there is anything systematically good in it) was found in Heidegger and previous thinkers. Who as it were has preserved the Christian Theology into the secular as best it could, with his lifelong "questioning mode of being" though he did say "God has always been with me" and organise Catholic rites at the end of his life so take that as you will.
Hudson Russell
Am I a brainlet if I dont h understand anything in this thread
Brayden Perry
Maybe a little bit but who gives a shit
Elijah Diaz
Anybody have people I can read who aren't Marxists? I personally despise Marxism and I think there's too much of it (along with postmodernism) in culture today. I like some of Adorno's ideas though.
Robert Rivera
Baudrillard has some interesting concepts, he identified as a Marxist at first but over time grew apart from it
Jackson Hall
Most people don’t understand what postmodernism is about or why it’s a thing. Once you understand what it’s actually about, it’ll forever change how you see the world.
Hunter Miller
No, it just means you have some stuff to learn and discover. We all do. Just remember to not develop your beliefs off of an online message board. Although a lot of artistic/musical type people love it, Marxism is a contentious ideology for a reason. You have to look at different perspectives.
Lincoln Kelly
No, you're just not acquainted with philosophy and political theory. You're probably not stupid. We all start somewhere.
>Everything systematically good in it [...] was found in Heidegger and previous thinkers.
I can understand why you'd say this, I do, but I think that "postmodernism" is too vague of a term in the first place to make such a statement. If you're referring to the Frankfurt school types like Adorno and Horkheimer and Marcuse, that's quite different than plenty of other philosophers often lumped in with "postmodernism" like Debord and Badiou mentioned in the OP.
And as for these writers, I do not think all of what they brought to the table was useless or already said by Heidegger. What most writers derided as "postmodern trite nonsense" wrote about was the effects of capitalism and control over life.
>Badiou's treatise on art doesn't exactly cancel out Marxism
Badiou in general doesn't cancel out Marxism. Badiou is quite literally a Maoist and has plenty of books on communism and how we need it.
Jayden Cook
What do you mean you despise it? Marxism is mostly just a critique of capitalism, you don't have to believe in it as a teleological system to gain insight from it.
Anthony Ross
I dunno bro like maybe all of philosophy primarily before the 20th century? Might I recommend you leave Christian Theology alone until you have read Plato, Aristotle, the New Testament, Augustine, Montaigne, Carlyle, and even Kant.
Carlyle is a great thinker, and one of the best to start with.
Leo Cooper
How do Marxist figures like Adorno view music differently from others? How does the ideology influence their views of music? I'm new to this subject and I'm curious.
Brody Smith
Postmodernism is bad and wrong. Philosophy should’ve ended with stoicism
Andrew Brown
This. Even fascists were reading Marx because they thought capitalism was destroying "western values." Marxism is not a proposed society or ideology in itself, Marxism is a critique of an existing system already in place: capitalism.
Jordan Rivera
Nahh, you're just not familiar with the terms and ideas. Just look into philosophy, and I'd advise starting with Carlyle, Dostoevsky, Mathews and Plato.
Carson Sanchez
>Marxism is mostly just a critique of capitalism
I take issue with the way it manifests itself in culture and politics today. It is too closely intertwined with extreme leftism, and I find all forms of extremist ideologies reprehensible.
Julian Powell
>until you have read Plato, Aristotle, the New Testament, Augustine, Montaigne, Carlyle, and even Kant.
Man. I really don't think that's necessary. Useful, yeah, but surely he could start somewhere beyond the basics that most grad students just pretend to have read. Though, certainly he should read the New Testament and Augustine.
Kevin Walker
Since we live under capitalism culture is also capitalist culture. Not exactly what you mean by that
Nicholas Bell
>If you're referring to the Frankfurt school types like Adorno and Horkheimer and Marcuse, that's quite different than plenty of other philosophers often lumped in with "postmodernism" like Debord and Badiou mentioned in the OP.
No, no, I wasn't speaking of the more overt Marxist types like the Frankfurt school, though considering some of their beliefs it probably wouldn't be too far off to call them postmodernists. I mean the more typical type like Deleuze.
>And as for these writers, I do not think all of what they brought to the table was useless or already said by Heidegger.
Keep in mind I said systematically user, I'm not acting as if philosophy ended after Heidegger.
Brayden Bailey
Well in your case you'd be better off reading it regardless so you can identify the key features of it you fundamentally disagree with
Tyler Russell
How Marxism "manifests" today is not the fault of Marx or his writing. The most vocal leftists you see have not read one lick of Marx, beyond maybe the manifesto if I'm being generous. Even the ones who have read Marx constantly fight about what he meant by certain things, and what is compatible or not with his writing. There is absolutely no mainstream Marxist movement, even "antifa" are not Marxist. But, you should know, Marxism necessitates thinking capitalism will be done away with, and whether or not that's "extreme" to you is, well..
Elijah Ramirez
Yeah but he’s old enough to have rejected Badiou when he came out with his dogshit translation of the Republic so I don’t take anything he suggests too seriously.
David Bennett
Ah, Deleuze. In that case I'm more inclined to agree, then. I like some of his writing but a huge amount of it is completely redundant and, sadly, put much better by others. It's weird, Maus seemed to really like some of Deleuze's writing (his thesis was heavy on citing him) but is also very deep into psychoanalysis (which Deleuze dedicated most of his life to criticizing). The fun of philosophy I guess.
Luke Myers
>Badiou in general doesn't cancel out Marxism. Badiou is quite literally a Maoist and has plenty of books on communism and how we need it.
I have to wonder where Maus is going after him when he speaks about Christianity and religion, like how far he's going to do a 180 from marxism and postmodernism to about their very opposite. Though I suppose in the sense of how Badiou does believe in values is already closer to religion than traditional marxism.
Adam Jones
Also eat shite
Joshua Scott
Well he obviously also needs to have read at the very least all the major Greeks, and bit of the Old Testament(books of moses, job, psalms, daniel those sort of ones). That's essential itself, but the reason I advocated later thinkers like Montaigne and Carlyle was so he wouldn't be entirely submerged in the medieval concepts and mind. As much as I love them, I think it wouldn't be the best place to go after the Greeks, which every knows is where you start along with the Bible.
James Hughes
>There is absolutely no mainstream Marxist movement,
Bruh the leaders of BLM are self-professed marxists
Jason Butler
Eh, you don't have to 100% agree with a writer or set "ideology" to like them. There are plenty of Christian communists. I've noticed Maus is careful to avoid calling himself a communist by name but he makes all of the same exact arguments made by open Marxists against capitalism. I don't think Maus is undergoing some grand ideological/political transformation, he's always been religious, I'm sure he's just more passionate about it after his brother's death and his divorce, both of which happened in 2018.
Hell, his second album is pretty much dedicated to Christianity.
William Rodriguez
Just read the pragmatists and ignore literally everything else in this thread.
Isaac Stewart
>tfw philosophy major but have never read a full work by ANY greek
lads...
Connor Lewis
.Anonymous
07/22/20(Wed)22:56:11 No.96907699
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Read Adorno.
Read Badiou.
Read Debord.
...Anonymous
07/22/20(Wed)22:59:10 No.96907775
(OP) #
In recent years he has denounced Badiou and postmodernism and says there's a lot in neo-Catholic theology pulled from medieval scholastic's in relation to the absolute foregrounding of God that has been influencing him a lot and he's found very interesting. Obviously in contrast to the postmodernist "self-enriching subjectivity" which is utter shite and only sounds nice but cancels itself out.
He said it on a reddit ama.
# # #
...Anonymous
07/22/20(Wed)23:02:56 No.96907858
#
True, but their influence is still worth noting and their works are still important and useful and in my opinion fulfilling. Even within a religious framework.
#
...Anonymous
07/22/20(Wed)23:03:58 No.96907884
He's became a lot more religious as of late
Owen Stewart
On that note, how the hell can one be a Christian and a capitalist?
Alexander Gomez
By criticizing capitalism. It's really that simple. You have to understand the time period that Marx was writing in. At that time, religion was still being used to rule over people, a political weapon, something that was both hurting and helping people. You don't have to be an atheist to critique an economic system and what it does to people.
Josiah Russell
>Eh, you don't have to 100% agree with a writer or set "ideology" to like them. There are plenty of Christian communists. I've noticed Maus is careful to avoid calling himself a communist by name but he makes all of the same exact arguments made by open Marxists against capitalism. I don't think Maus is undergoing some grand ideological/political transformation, he's always been religious, I'm sure he's just more passionate about it after his brother's death and his divorce, both of which happened in 2018.
Hell, his second album is pretty much dedicated to Christianity.
Nathaniel Scott
>BLM
>Leaders
Levi Martinez
>I dunno bro like maybe all of philosophy primarily before the 20th century? Might I recommend you leave Christian Theology alone until you have read Plato, Aristotle, the New Testament, Augustine, Montaigne, Carlyle, and even Kant.
>Carlyle is a great thinker, and one of the best to start with.
Luke Hill
nypost.com
Please don't start using that bullshit "But its not an organized group!" argument like those antifa idiots.
Henry Walker
lol hes too dense to care about the state of the world or read anything so he's mocking us
This.
BLM is a movement, without any real leaders. The foundation with the name does not represent all the protesters, nor is it Marxist. Most of the protesters are just people that are upset that people are being killed by police, especially black people.
The actual BLM organization is awful, they just funnel money into the DNC (which Marxists despise).
Ayden Garcia
Lmao he did he really translate the Republic? I guess tankies always try to claim it as their own.
Do you think it's possible Deleuze didn't even know exactly what he meant with words sometimes, but just understood the systematic values and "truth" he was trying to get at? I mean I'm pretty sure Guatarri did say it was written for 15 to 20 year old because they would just go over any bits they didn't understand and it would overall be aesthetically understood, like the capitalist zombie and such.
Maus seems to me like the type of guy who would like Jung a lot, but from what I can see it seems more like his into traditional Freud and Lacan type stuff. Do you know at all specifically?
Aaron Martin
Political "Scientists" are not philosophers
William Nguyen
Deleuze intentionally adopted words and put his own meaning to them. It's really fucked up lmao. It makes reading him an absolute chore. And of course people constantly argue on what he meant by these words in the first place since his explanations aren't explicit and use even more words with changed meanings. Capitalism and Schizophrenia is definitely aesthetically charged and they knew what they were doing when they made it like this. They even emphasized they wanted people to read it out of order.
Also, Maus loves Lacan. Like, a lot. He used to mention him constantly and post links on Facebook to Lacanian Ink articles.
John Turner
>BLM is a movement, without any real leaders. The foundation with the name does not represent all the protesters, nor is it Marxist. Most of the protesters are just people that are upset that people are being killed by police, especially black people.
I don't understand how you can believe that the movement can be completely disconnected from the organization. The ideology overlaps. Have you seen a single notable figure from the movement denounce the organization? Have there been any attempts made on behalf of the movement to distance themselves from the organization? I haven't seen much of that. I don't mean to be combative here, but I strongly disagree with your stance on this.