What the fuck was that ending. How come the only character with any balls died yet all the indecisive pussys lived?

What the fuck was that ending. How come the only character with any balls died yet all the indecisive pussys lived?

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Because he thought traps were gay

Rohrshach threatened to unravel the lie that was holding back the very real threat of nuclear war. It was his life (plus the hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers) against the millions that would have been lost if Veidt's lie hadn't brought about a peace of sorts.

He told him to do it.

Rorschach was the pussy. He was a hypocrite with no morals. He only cared about other people so long as saving them gave him an excuse to fight someone. He couldn't stand the idea that there are larger, systemic solutions to society's problems that don't involve being a grumpy incel. The fact that you identify with him says more about you than about the book. Less informed people will always reject complex solutions to complex problems, believing the world to be much simpler than it is. The simple man believes only in black and white, no compromise. They believe exclusively in the self. They believe that (((elites))) are the cause of their struggles instead of their own refusal to cooperate. They mistake conviction for morality.

Most based post I've ever seen on Zig Forums

Rorschach's rejection of Veidt's solution draws an interesting parallell to Rorschach's personal writings in his case files, specifically an essay where he argues that nuking hiroshima was righteous because it ended the war. When confronted with same dilemma in the destruction of new york, Rohrschach shows genuine compassion and grief. On the very first page, Rohrschach fantasizes about the city's inhabitants being purged, but only when it comes to pass does he recognize his love for the city and the people in it.
Rohrschach is a hypocrite, sure, and definitely stupid. But the final few chapters show him growing as a character, and he isn't objectively wrong to reject Veidt's solution. The comic is explicit that Veidt's success is temporary at best.

I prefer the other refutation of Rorschach's opening speech

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I would agree with all of that. He certainly had development as a character, but his fatal flaw is still what did him in, whether it was justified or not. He chose to die rather than face the natural cosequences of his ideology, or even try to do some good in the new world order. He was a coward to the end. He couldn't cope with his ideological failure, and ultimately chose conviction rather than change.

I think that sums it up pretty well. In that situation, I think I'd have done the same thing and turned Rohrschach into jamba juice. I just meant that, in a more subjective sense, rejecting Veidt's plan is one of the few "moral" things he does in the comic

The question becomes which you value more, the truth, or life itself. What Veidt did was obviously wrong, but that's not really the issue. The issue is whether it should be revealed. If the truth was revealed, more people would suffer and die than that squid ever could've caused. I'm not really convinced that Rorschach's commitment to truth was actually moral. It seems like an arbitrary conviction that gave him an excuse to fight the good fight, as he had always done.

But hey, these questions are what make Watchmen so good.

I interpreted his fixation on getting 'the truth' out as an immature expression of his grief, an idea driven home by him crying.
If he was stupid enough to jeopardize world peace for some truthfulness crusade, that would be petty and evil. He's still stupidly jeopardizing world peace, but I read his decision as coming from a genuine sadness at the huge loss of life

well said. Rorschach's death was still pretty tragic, but he understood why he had to die.

Moral of the story: Being a hero gets you killed.

Another interesting refutation of both Veidts plan and Rorschach's opening speech is the scene we see in New York right before it the squid arrives, a bunch of side characters trying to stop a fight. The two cops, Rorschach's therapist, the newspaper guy, all totally normal people intervening to help out some total strangers while halfway across the world Veidt monologues about murdering them to save the world. Both Rorschach and Adrian believed that people couldn't save themselves and yet the last thing we see of New York is a bunch of people trying to do just that.

More nuanced takes on Watchmen than was expecting in a bait thread.

Saved

>indecisive
But they weren't. They realized Veidt was right, his ayylamo plan would bring about world peace for the foreseeable future. And in a world pre-Doomsday Clock, he was correct. But I guess that's what Manhattan meant by 'nothing ever ends'. Humanity would eventually go back to its old ways once some event broke their treaties. Anyway, everybody but Rorschach is down to see world peace brought about by a massive genocidal lie and honestly, I personally found no fault in that. It's really admirable to see Rorschach die for his beliefs and I think he expected to.

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I dunno man, it seemed like with the world on the brink of annihilation Ozy understandably didn't wanna pull any punches. That said, what a beautiful issue. It hurts reading through it knowing what comes next. I like to think Jo and whatsername found peace right at the end, probably so considering they're laying on top of each other at the beginning of issue 12.

>But they weren't. They realized Veidt was right, his ayylamo plan would bring about world peace for the foreseeable future.
Or at least until scientists sequence pieces of the 'alien''s genome and find out it was actually of terrestrial origin.

There are a lot of holes in Veidt's plan even without Rorschach's journal potentially throwing suspicion on him. The biggest and most obvious one is that trying to hold the world at gunpoint and force it into peace is a horrible idea that does nothing to actually address the reasons that brought humanity to the brink in the first place. At some point tensions will deescalate once it becomes clear that further attacks aren't coming, the squid will become a memory and the superpowers will return to politics as usual. What then? Drop a squid on Moscow this time?

Yeah, the forseeable future. It did manage to prevent the imminent nuclear armageddon humanity was faced with, if only temporarily. As good a plan as any, imo. Kinda seems like the Watchmen Earth was fucked from the start, but at least they had a canonical seven years of peace before Doomsday Clock happened.

I love that watchmen never fails to spark discussion here, there's a lot to talk about.
I think that's the idea. A world without conflict renders him obsolete. A man that exists only to thrive in a dirty, horrible world can't survive in a world of peace, especially not one made through horror and lies, everything Rorschach lives to correct and solve. It's a conflict of interest and Veidt is still a monster. A monster who has humanity's best interests at heart though one who is ultimately misguided.

>As good a plan as any, imo.
Isn't Ozymandias supposed to be, like, the smartest man alive? If he has access to the technology to create a genetically-engineered fake alien, couldn't he create an army of monsters and become an actual threat to keep humans distracted instead of a dumb hoax?

What is a monster?

>How come the only character with any balls died yet all the indecisive pussys lived?
That's real life for you, Watchmen is the kinda story where every comic book cliche crashes in the fucking wall

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Ozymandias had balls. He tried to kill Dr. Manhattan. I think Ozymandias is kinda dumb desu but that took balls.

>The comic is explicit that Veidt's success is temporary at best.
Holy shit, a thread full of people that actually read the comic. Zig Forums is the best. I don't know why I ever go to Zig Forums.

It's really the most damnedly brilliant comic of all time.

But real life showed that Ozy was wrong (the comic intimates it multiple times as well pic related).

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Did we have nuclear holocaust user? You know that was a real thing right?

Why even mention that nonsensical trash?

To be fair, this was in an alternate timeline so you could argue that by chance there could have really been a nuclear holocaust. But in any case it was a dumb plan.