What went wrong? Could it have survived? Would the Balkans be better under Austro-Hungarian rule?
Austria-Hungary
Alexander Roberts
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Owen Ward
Our country would've survived if we had won the war. It started disintegrating two years after the Russian Empire broke apart, months after the Ottoman Empire had de facto control of only Constantinople and about a month before Germany forfeited the war because they knew a week longer and the country would've imploded from the inside. Even more importantly, Croatian divisions stayed loyal to the country for a week more after the thing started to fracture and Hungary supported keeping the Empire together for a while longer.
>Would the Balkans be better under Austro-Hungarian rule?
Rapid development of Bosnia under Austro-Hungarian occupation, when it was guided from Vienna by Austrians and managed from Sarajevo by Croats is a testament to the civilizing force that the Empire was. I miss it.
Owen Thompson
balkanites only behave under hungarian rule
Adrian Morgan
Did you know that the two parts of the monarchy didn't even have uniform train tracks? A train from Hungary couldn't be used in Austria and vice versa.
No wonder that that thing failed miserably.
Ayden Watson
>What went wrong?
Around the turn of the century a rebalance of interests was needed just like the one between the cisleithanian and transleithanian parts of the Reich as the other ethnicities grew more vocal, but never happened, leading to the split-offs accelerated by defeat in war and Allied plans to build up the new states as strategic satellite states against Germany.
>Could it have survived
Yes.
>Would the Balkans be better under Austro-Hungarian rule?
Definitely.
Lucas Foster
Too many slavs and romanians. You know where problems come from.
Jacob Butler
Did you know that modern international food safety regulations are a direct successor to Austro-Hungarian ones?
The train thing is true, but in a vacuum it's something people who don't know anything about the country spout to appear smart.
Isaac Lee
>Could it have survived?
It's a wonder that it survived as long as it did t b h
It was an Empire in the medieval sense of the word united by faith and the person of the emperor/king that endured through nationalism and liberalism through the entirety of the 19th century until the early 20th century. It would have survived if only if it had stopped being an empire.
Jose Bennett
>It would have survived if only if it had stopped being an empire
Quite the opposite. Emperor uniting a European union of national states is a better version of the EU and we almost had it. It would've taken only a decade or two more for Karl to fully reform the Empire.
Jeremiah Martin
But the emperors role would have to be limited to a ceremonial function like the Queen in the UK nowadays
Grayson Harris
>would have to be
Why?
Blake Young
>Would the Balkans be better under Austro-Hungarian rule?
no
Wyatt Kelly
There would have been a socialist revolution otherwise.
Jayden Peterson
the name Austria-Hungary already implies chauvinism of Austrians and Hungarians towards the other nationalities
Habsburg Monarchy is the better name, and it would've needed to give all nationalities true equality if it wanted to be stable
Ethan Clark
I really doubt that such a revolutionary potential would have been available in the most important parts of A-H. Just look at how our first republic came to be, the socialists could just scare the conservatives into a constitution of their liking by implying that they could not contain a Bolshevik-style revolution that was nothing but a pipe dream.
Jacob Murphy
Queen of England has a lot more power than you think. The problem with English tradition is that traditionally, for about two hundred years now, their monarchs decided to exercise less power. So in the UK it's considered conservative to pledge not to interfere into politics and it's something the Queen has continued doing during her reign and the current crown prince already confirmed he'll continue himself.
Habsburg model is a bit different. The Emperor of Austria-Hungary did retreat out of general politics during the 19th century, but he didn't give up or stop exercising his rights. Late Franz Joseph basically codified the modern Habsburg understanding of the ruler's position in the state.
Quote: "A ruler's job is to protect his citizens from their politicians."
This definitely means a constitutional monarchy, with a Catholic coronation ceremony in the name of God and various powers of obstructing and pushing for various legislation, but with lots of strings attached. Not exactly a retarded modern protestant monarchy, but not Saudi Arabia either.
Asher King
>the name Austria-Hungary already implies chauvinism of Austrians and Hungarians towards the other nationalities
It's also misleading because since since 1868. Croatian flag was already considered a third official flag of the country and de facto, Croatia was elevated to the third equal entity in October 1918. when Hungarians finally relented before blessed Karl's pressure. Funny enough that a month later, the monarchy wouldn't exist any longer.
Camden Ortiz
To enhance on this, the Austrian monarch roughly could be described as the last chief executive officer of a monarchy in Europe, with him having actual relevance in state affairs much more than his counterpart in Berlin. Vetoing a candidate in a papal election for instance is nothing a ceremonial monarch would do even if he still could do it.
Jose Rodriguez
The Hungarian part of the country was in about 50% non-Hungarian, but minority rights were practically unheard of. This was starting to piss off even the Austrians: while Franz Joseph was still a supporter of dualism, Franz Ferdinand started portraying himself as a protector of the Romanians, which in turn pissed off many people in Hungary. The Hungarian prime minister Tisza had to deal with a parliament that had sizeable anti-Austrian and socialist factions because of that, meanwhile Serbia, on the southern flank of the Empire, that was openly friendly to Russia, had just managed to strenghten itself in the region.
Justin White
Would make a nice country
Kevin Rogers
Hungarians in general were a bitch to deal with. It's almost one of the grand bits of poetic justice that Franz Joseph ultimately was right when he told them to be careful with their wish for total independence, to this day they seethe about Trianon.
Josiah Scott
>yfw blessed Karl was the last monarch to have a Catholic coronation in the world
>that pic
Trieste would've definitely gone to the Slovenians and all trialist manifests and attempts gave all of Istria to Croatia. Italians got fucked hard.
William Morgan
K.u.K. is the best way to refer to this cunt I think we can all agree
Carson Bennett
k. u. k. essentially means Austria-Hungary as well and also was only used since 1867
kaiserlich und königlich
imperial and royal
imperial Austria
royal Hungary
Easton Mitchell
go cry to your russian daddy bitch ass habsburg
Justin Butler
Seethe more Ferenc
Mason Ross
>Kaiserlich und Königlich
Extremely based. Very imperial and very royal.
>imperial Austria
>royal Hungary
Also royal for Croatia (and Bohemia, I think), but under a different tradition than Hungary. Blessed Karl was for us king Karl the first. This difference in customs may seem negligible, but due to different tradition, in Hungary Maria Theresa was crowned "king" because the title didn't anticipate for a woman ascending the throne, but didn't forbid it either. In Croatia, she was crowned separately as a queen of Croatia.
Tyler Thomas
Sure, but there's symbolism in the name.
>the Kingdom of Dalmatia was a part of Austria
Fun fact #2: Dalmatians liked ruling over its own lands so much, they declined unification with Croatia which Franz Joseph initiated twice during the 19th century.
Fun fact #2: Dalmatians were leading Yugoslavs in Croatia by 1918. because they got so scared of Italians now that their links to the motherland were not politically weak, that they teamed up with Serbs.
In hindsight, it all seems retarded now.
Josiah Bell
>i miss it
nigga you old
Wyatt Gray
>were not politically weak
*were weak
Extremely.
Wyatt Ward
Starts with S and ends with lavs.
Colton Gutierrez
Jaxon Nelson
they had the balls to cross their path with CHADtaly