Who really was at fault with SEGA's decline in the late 80s and the 90s...

>Arcades might have survived if the Saturn wasn't such a fuck-up.
Ok retard.

>Did the SoJ vs SoA rivalry screw them over that badly?
basicly
SoA was the one that came with the billion dollar idea of bundling Sonic with every Genesis in turn making the genesis a complete success and Sonic a worthy competitor to Mario
SoJ has been on their case ever since

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they literally trying to kill themselve

I honestly do miss Sega. I'd buy another console if they ever made a new one.

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Well let's put it this way. If the Saturn was as popular as the Playstation was, quad polygon rendering might have taken off.

Don't forget Nvidia's first GPU used that technique as well. It bombed because the Saturn bombed.

By the same token, had the Saturn done well, it would have helped elevate arcade style gaming.

>Arcades might have survived if the Saturn wasn't such a fuck-up
the saturn can barely cope with 3d as it is, it could have sold 4x more and it wouldnt have saved arcades

Uncle never had a genesis growing up since he's a Nintendo person
My aunt probably grew up with one since she'd always borrow my Gameboy when I was young to play Sonic Genesis
But why did SoJ have to interfere with the decision of SoA when they're focused on Japan in the first place?
Did the higher ups at Sega decide that they knew what would fit or not in the US market
Afaik Sega won in Brazil since they decided to manufacture there to bypass their retarded gaming laws

>the saturn can barely cope with 3d as it is
Saturn was fine for arcade games because you don't need a fully rotatable 3D camera for arcade games cause they don't focus on immersion.

With a fixed plane, like those used for fighting games and shoot em ups, the Saturn is enough powerful for 3D cause VDP2 is pretty capable to those planes well.

In short, SoJ didn't understand why their brand new IP needed to be bundled with the hardware for free. They could not wrap their heads around that. Being Japanese, the fucking overnight success of the Genesis in the US after that decision by SoA made SoJ look like bumbling idiots. That was a lot of what caused the rift between the two.

>Who really was at fault with SEGA's decline in the late 80s and the 90s
Sega

Nothing went wrong. Ain't nobody going up against the SNES + GB and making waves.

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Did no one actually try to understand where SoA was coming from when they were explaining their justification for bundling games with the console? Did SoJ not do the same thing when they were selling in their own turf?

SEGA of Japan is responsible for damn near all their own fuckups.
>the SEGA CD only breaking even at best
>the absolute failure that was the 32X and it being forced on the NA market
>the failure that was the Saturn launch
>the failure that was the SEGA Nomad
>the catastrophic failure that was the Saturn everywhere but Japan and even then it was BTFO by the PS1
>SEGA's retarded Saturn architecture because they feared the fucking Jaguar of all things
>the Saturn focusing on 2D and then reneging to 3D at the last minute
>SEGA's retarded decision to not work with Sony when negotiations would've been piss easy thanks to their falling out with Nintendo
>SEGA's failure to have a mainline Sonic game on the Saturn
>Tom Kalinske quitting because he got fed up with SEGA's bullshit
>hiring Bernie "the Saturn is not our future" Stolar
>flooding the market with their own shit because of an inability to actually track their own products worldwide
>SEGA's awful timing with the Dreamcast when console gayman had just overtaken arcades
>the company's reputation getting dragged through the mud thanks to one retarded decision after the next, including, but not limited to the ocean of mediocre-to-shitty Sonic games

tl;dr: SEGA did themselves in. Like Konami, they're a shell of their former selves.

This is SoJ we're talking about.

The Genesis was biggest in America so SoA wanted to keep it rolling while SoJ really wanted to move ahead. SoA developed the 32X to extend the life of the Genesis similarly to the SEGA CD but they were given little time to create it, create a launch lineup (which was 3 games), and release. The add-on ended up with

This is pretty close, yeah. Highly recommend checking out those read only books on the dreamcast and the mega drive for some more insight into Sega. Lots of good interviews.
I especially like the Bernie Stolar interviews there. He's a total fuckwad but some of what he says makes sense.

This is a retarded argument, Saturn failed in large part BECAUSE it was mostly an arcade system in a country where they had fallen out of fashion. Saturn's failure was symptomatic of the west's dead arcades, not the other way around. Also quads never would have become industry standard because even in '95 developers were much more accustomed to triangles.

Power Slave says hi youtube.com/watch?v=03j4P-ewtSw

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One game out of its entire library does not make for a good argument. There are so few good looking 3D games on Saturn it's not even worth mentioning them.

Have you ever actually played Power Slave on real hardware or are you just parroting youtubers? It has hard frame drops all over the place.

I don't think any different timing could have saved the Dreamcast. The PS2 has a lot of hype, and Sony was hyping it up to have Toy Story graphics. If they'd been any later, they'd never had any time to shine before being crushed by Sony. And any earlier to compete with Playstation and Nintendo 64 would probably have been impossible because of the level of technology.

Cringe.

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>(which had its own foibles since they slapped another processor in there last-minute so it could do some amount of 3D, as it was competing with the N64 & PS1).
Why couldn't SoJ waited it out for a few years to make sure that they're getting more out of the R&D to make the Saturn a contender to the PS1? Were they really drunk on the idea that if they can compete with their competitors through harebrained releases they could still win?

>SoA resented the Saturn because it was the reason why the 32X was forced to be rushed and have little support.
But in your opinion, could the Genesis have been extended beyond its life cycle like say around 1995-1997 had the 32X been released?

>SoA developed the 32X to extend the life of the Genesis
Wrong, it was made to combat the Jaguar.

>3D game playing mostly on a 2D plane
Hey man, you're the one posting cringe. It's actually kind of ugly if you look past the bright colors.

Cope.

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I mean
most of the PS1's graphics can be considered trash compared to now

>posting two rail-based games
it's almost like the Saturn can't cope with a 3D world to move around in. What's next, Off-World Interceptor Extreme?

>Off-World Interceptor Extreme
3DO and PSX game too retard.

Also seethe.

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Well, that, and they blocked releasing most 2d games and jrpgs, and and especially 2d jrpgs, in a gen when these kind of games were taking off like wildfire on the ps1 and had already seen good success on the snes.

Eventually they realized they were being absolutely spanked by the ps1 because of the lack of these games and did bring a few over, but by then the catastrophic damage had been done.

SoJ's level of incompetence really was the stuff of legends.

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>Saturn failed in large part BECAUSE it was mostly an arcade system in a country where they had fallen out of fashion. Saturn's failure was symptomatic of the west's dead arcades, not the other way around
Errr...that's actually quite wrong. Saturn outsold the PS1 in Christmas 1995 on the back of the famous trio of ported arcade games Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2 and Virtua Cop.

As soon as Sega stopped porting decent arcade games to Saturn, which pretty much happened straight after that, then the console started falling behind. There were few third party games to pick up the slack because the Saturn's hardware was hard to work with, and Sega did not bother to attract many third parties anyway.

Not to mention how the Saturn was a lot more expensive than the PS1. These are all the factors that killed Saturn, not the focus on arcade games which is the only thing that drove its sales.

Arcade ports only started to lose their luster in 1997 after the release of games like FF7. But the Saturn was already kill by 1997. Had the Saturn kept the arcade momentum going, then FF7 would have just turned into a niche game low on gameplay like earlier JRPGs.

Burning Rangers

The Saturn version was my favorite, though.
>posting more dogshit saturn 3D
keep trying, kiddo.

>Saturn outsold the PS1 in Christmas 1995 on the back of the famous trio of ported arcade games Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2 and Virtua Cop
That's because that was a 3-in-1 gimmick, and I'm pretty sure sales dropped off soon after.

Burning Rangers and Metal Gear Solid came out in the same year, but all Saturn 3D looks like early PS1 trash

I'm arguing less about the timing of the Dreamcast's release and more about their misguided focus on arcade ports when people really wanted original home console experiences like GTAIII, DMC, and so on. The PS2 absolutely crushed everyone with its 2001 year alone thanks to having a library that catered to a home user experience rather than arcade.
Yes, titles like Sonic Adventure and Skies of Arcadia were great original titles, but it obviously wasn't enough for "mature gamers". Yes, they had the SEGA Sports titles, but normalfags wanted Madden and NBA Live.
It also didn't help that their controller was ill-suited for what would become the industry standard like dual-analog sticks.

>dogshit 3D
not in 1995, zoomer.

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>That's because that was a 3-in-1 gimmick, and I'm pretty sure sales dropped off soon after.
If you're trying to imply that it only did well because they gave those games basically away for free, keep in mind that the Saturn cost more than the PS1.

>I'm pretty sure sales dropped off soon after.
Yes they did, but that was because Sega had failed to make the Saturn library well-rounded.

Arcade ports were considered cool as fuck at the time, but they weren't enough to drive the console's sales. The Mega Drive never relied just on arcade ports, it had a bit of everything, but arcade ports were a crucial part of its library.

The Saturn and arcades were in a symbiotic relationship and needed each other to survive. It was the Saturn that fucked up first.