Why did the writers choose to use this as the last scene...

It re-contextualizes her journey and shows that her revenge was fueled by the guilt she felt that she never told Joel that she forgave him. Killing Abby is her way to make up for it.

that's exactly it
Druckman got butthurt because he realized that gamers began to think Joel's actions in the first game were good

So now we get this game which is essentially a bit of a TRoS walking back everything that the first game did

>But then why did they spend almost half the game making you play as Abby and trying to make you sympathetic to her?
Because the game is about the fallout of Joel's decision at the end of the first game so we need to understand the perspective of the people he impacted. It's the same reason we play as Ellie in the final scene of the first game.
>The only explanations is they see Joel as a bad guy and thought the players would eventually side with Abby.
That isn't the only explanation, you're not supposed to side with any of the characters, you're supposed to want them to stop making bad choices. It's not about picking a team.

>Druckman got butthurt because he realized that gamers began to think Joel's actions in the first game were good
That's not true, Druckmann just acknowledged that Joel wronged a lot of people and when you wrong someone they might want to get back at you.

Because it's the fucking reason why she went for revenge in the first place. She wasn't mad that they killed Joel. She was mad that they took Joel away from her before she could actually forgive him. Placing in at the end concludes the flashbacks' storyline and contextualizes her choices throughout the game.

I swear it's like you fucking retards can't understand basic storytelling.

its just a really long episode of the walking dead

They wanted to be profound and deep. They weren't

you're supposed to watch the cutscenes zoomer
also guaranteed you played on casual mode

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The whole game youre thinking
>Why is she this angry when she hated him all game
But no she was trying to forgive him. Youre a faggot and a retard.

Lou2 haters have been exposed as fucking brainlets

You're a moron

> She wasn't mad that they killed Joel. She was mad that they took Joel away from her before she could actually forgive him.

Oh so she would be totally OK and not that mad if her and Joel were on the best terms? Or if she never planned to forgive Joel? Didn't we know that they weren't on good terms from previous flashbacks? This flashback doesn't contextualize shit. The game is just poorly paced and edited.

>That isn't the only explanation, you're not supposed to side with any of the characters, you're supposed to want them to stop making bad choices. It's not about picking a team.

Maybe on the surface level but there definitely seems to be a clear narrative underneath. I don't mean "trannies good white man bad" I mean it feels like the devs retconned Joel's personality and decision making which led him into that ridiculous scenario that got him killed.

People who think LOU2 is well written and the shallowest pseuds

I thought they relationship was broken after that flashback where he tells her the truth , and she felt guilty about it. Really the ending flashback should make her less guilty and angry. She already made the first step and her last moment with Joel was a positive one

>Maybe on the surface level but there definitely seems to be a clear narrative underneath. I don't mean "trannies good white man bad" I mean it feels like the devs retconned Joel's personality and decision making which led him into that ridiculous scenario that got him killed.
This. In that scene you'd think he was only out in the apocalypse for 5 minutes instead of decades considering how much of a retard he was.

I don't think they did, I think you're just misremembering what he was like in the first game and not picking up on the subtle details that explain his actions in the second.

Not necessarily. They're just exploring morality being different for other people. The audience sided with Joel in the last game because from his perspective his actions were justifiable and not all that bad.
Much like how Abby's revenge, to her and her group, wasn't bad because they saw Joel as a terrible person. But again, the audience didn't feel that way towards him, and I still only see a very small amount of people claiming Joel was bad. I don't even get the impression they're making Joel seem like a bad person, just that they're pointing out the weight of his actions.

But the point was that all of the suffering in the game could have been avoided if Abby wasn't so hellbent on revenge no matter the cost, and we were shown her side to learn what that cost was.
The problem is, we also saw it from Ellie's side in a sinilar way. That parallel must have seemed really good on paper for them to stick with it in the game, but I personally don't think it worked.

Dude what in the fuck are you on? In the first game like every single group of people he meets try to fucking murder him and Ellie. Then in this one he just waltzes in the middle of a room surrounded by a group of armed people he barely knew, and I'm supposed to believe that's the same Joel from the first game? Really?

>Didn't we know that they weren't on good terms from previous flashbacks?
No idiot, pay fucking attention if you're gonna criticize a story. Ellie loses her shit at Joel when he tells her the truth at the hospital, and since then their relationship is broken. That's why she's mad at him when he tries to act like her father at the party, but even then she realizes that he's doing it because he truly loves her, so then we get the porch scene where she says she's gonna try to eventually forgive him. Which then leads to the beginning of the game.

>Oh so she would be totally OK and not that mad if her and Joel were on the best terms
Probably not, but that's not what the game is about so we'll never know.

>I mean it feels like the devs retconned Joel's personality and decision making which led him into that ridiculous scenario that got him killed.

In what way?

>Really the ending flashback should make her less guilty and angry. She already made the first step and her last moment with Joel was a positive one
She doesn't forgive him in the final scene. She says she's gonna try.

>her last moment with Joel was a positive one
Her last moment with Joel (except for his death) was when he came to her room at the beginning of the game. That's why in that scene you can tell Joel is trying to get on her good side and Ellie acts distant but still gives him a compliment when he finished his song. It's the first stepping stone in rebuilding their relationship. Then Abby comes in and rips that away from her. That's her reason for wanting revenge.

The entire chain of events leading to his death is ridiculous, but it never contradicts his character. Tommy is the one following them, Joel sticks to his side. Tommy says their names, Joel had already said they're gonna leave.
He just saved a girl, and they got chased by a horde to a "safe" location.

>TLOU1
>Joel and Ellie get a truck, drive miles away to a new city
>Ellie spots a man in need of help in the middle of the road, Joel instantly knows that it's a setup and drives through the guy and his ambushing buddies

>TLOU2
>Joel and Tommy just happen to run into Abby in the middle of a blizzard and decide to help her out for some reason even though she's being chased by one hundred zombies
>Snowed in, Joel and Tommy are somehow persuaded to travel to Abby's mansion where her friends are waiting
>Tommy plays buddy-buddy with all of Abby's friends despite twenty-five years of pure survival in a post-apocalyptic world; Joel says nothing the entire time, not even "Are you sure about this?"
>There is a decent window of time for Tommy and Joel to notice that Abby has a fucking shotgun pointed at Joel and neither of them say or do anything when they would have immediately made a move in the first game

>Dude what in the fuck are you on? In the first game like every single group of people he meets try to fucking murder him and Ellie.
He trusts Henry very quickly in the first and that's before his character development. In fact, he gets angry because he feels betrayed that Henry leaves him to die. He knew this guy for like a day. On Joel's death scene though, he saves Abby and they're stuck in the middle of a blizzard and being overwhelmed by infected. They didn't have a choice but to go with Abby. When they get there they're just normal, friendly people who are in the middle of no where. These people are not bandits and they have nothing to gain from doing anything to Joel and Tommy. Joel has also been living a soft life for five years and Jackson regularly trades with outsiders. A week before his death Joel traded with strangers for some coffee. Even considering all that, Joel was sizing everyone in the room up, it was Tommy who was relaxed and who introduced them both. He really didn't do anything out of character, it was just a really unlucky (one might say contrived) situation.

I don't think it's worth arguing with most of your points, because you seem to have a fanciful idea of what Joel is like and how he has changed, but I will say that Joel didn't notice Abby's shotgun because he was sizing everyone up in the room except for her, because she's a young girl like Ellie and he saved her life. I think Abby looks a bit too old because she's a more bigger and more masculine than Ellie, so this doesn't necessarily come across that well, but I wanted to point it out anyway.

>It's the first stepping stone in rebuilding their relationship

I don't understand why this would make her feel more guilty and angry opposite to her never making this first step... The relationship wasn't fixed but it was mended a bit. It's not really as deep as you think it is.

She's still young in that scene when he plays Future Days no? That's when he tells her he's gonna teach her to play guitar, which definitely isn't their last moment together.

>and his death doesn't even get revenged.
But it does like 80%. Ellie and Tommy killed everyone of Abby's group except for Abby herself.

I'm not the guy you were responding to. I'm another person who agrees with him because he's right. The whole scenario and plot for that matter is contrived to hell and back.

If you're not going to address someone's points in a discussion, I don't know why in the world you decided to join the discussion in the first place. Especially when you need to have the events of both games spelled out for you just so you can follow along with what everyone else is talking about.

They were probably attempting some DEEP narrative about how he is still alive inside of her yadda yadda REVENGE BAD ENJOY HARVEST MOON WITH MUTT BABBI

I just wanted to give you an FYI. Neil Druckmann explained Joel's death scene. I'm not that interested in arguing about whether or not the scene is stupid because I'm sick of the discussion and I think in a few months people will stop being stupid about it.

>Her last moment with Joel (except for his death) was when he came to her room at the beginning of the game. That's why in that scene you can tell Joel is trying to get on her good side and Ellie acts distant but still gives him a compliment when he finished his song.

What ? Have you even played the game or are you fucking with us. That was a flashback she was a kid then. Last moment with Joel was last flashback