It's official: Miyamoto killed Paper Mario

didnt the mario and luigi remakes introduce new characters?

>barely anyone ever points out when he "saves" franchises, like Splatoon
he also saved us from phantom hourglass 3

Tanabe and Miyamoto are both responsible.

>Miyamoto cans a TTYD sequel because it's too similar and his famous "does it really need a story?" suggestion
>Tanabe has some autistic obsession with some shitty tingle game he made where you don't progress tingle and advance through the game solely with money that he projects onto every other game

>When will nintendo stop being obsessed with casuals?
Literally never since they've been targeting casuals since they been making video games, and casuals are the reason why franchises like Mario, Pokemon, and Aminal Crossing effortlessly sell millions of copies. Targeting them lets them make the profits so that the hardcore/mature fans can get their Metroids, and Fire Emblems, and Xenoblades.

Good thing the original 2 exist

I mean, sure, but gameplaywise Mario RPGs were already simplified JRPGs for people who were too casual for Final Fantasy.

This.
Miyamoto set this into motion, and Tanabe, well, is Tanabe.

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Funny because Tanabe is now going to kill Metroid

nintendolife.com/news/2020/07/series_producer_suggests_metroid_prime_4_wont_ignore_casual_players

>"does it really need a story?
I mean, he's not wrong but I feel like people took his words way too literal. It should be gameplay first, story second, like with almost every Nintendo game.

Le epic "blame Miyamoto for literally everything" thread

Can't say it's unexpected, considering how the Superstar Saga remake handled some enemy designs

he didn't. if it was up to miyamoto, splatoon would have been a sanitized yoshi spinoff instead of an original IP. miyamoto cultists are deranged.

You can’t kill what’s already dead.

Even if the game was mechanically identical to TTYD or 64 it would be underwhelming if the characters were generic and forgettable like they are in the past 3. SPM is a terrible game that a lot of people have fondness for just because of the story and characters it brings to the table. Having that factor is important too in an RPG.

>They already abandoned the mobile market
lol, no they didn't.

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Why do you think alphadream got bankrupt out of nowhere? Miyamoto doesnt fuck around

>Out of nowhere
They were in massive debt even before they release SS. Their problem was their games took too long to produce and the production values were too high. Why do you think they stopped making unique sprites for every game and just recycled dream team assets in the 2 remakes?

Pretty sure that was Iwata my guy

>The idea for origami came out of this process of challenging myself to try something new. The theme running through the Paper Mario series is paper, so I was working with Intelligent Systems to think up paper-based ideas that hadn’t yet been used. Intelligent Systems suggested the idea of confetti, and I suggested the idea of origami. The combination of these two ideas is what led to our new game, Paper Mario: The Origami King.
So those who feel that there was some conflict on what the game wanted to focus on had a point: It seems like IS came up with the confetti while Tanabe came up with Origami.

It wasn't these surface annoyances that killed the franchise. Only deeply bruised it

It was holding on to a completely pointless battle system that only exists to waste the player's time. No growth, no battle only rewards. Only the same speed bumps over and over. It's like he took the worst thing about JRPG's, and culled the rest. How anyone can see these systems as anything more than an objective flaw of game design is well beyond me

>muh casuals, m-must attract most common denominator!!

The series should have stayed dead then.

>but Miyamoto said "having rabbits dive into ink and swim around" makes zero sense, use a different animal"

And its funny we literally got Blooper OCs out of that.

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what the fuck

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Don't kid yourself Mario lost it's soul after 64.

Yeah, totally not cause the games are still selling despite the autistic rage. Do you people seriously not realize a vast majority of people buying games are normies who couldn't care less about that stuff?

I'd be surprised if Tanabe DIDN'T shit the bed also while making this because it's no longer "what's Tanabe going to kill next?" but rather "what hasn't been ruined by Tanabe"?

>get one bad game, in which Sakamoto has long sinced apologized for
>WAH WAH, MY FRANCHISE IS DEAD! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Metroidfags are seriously the biggest babies on the planet.

Retro will have enough sense to tard wrangle Tanabe in, considering Next Level have enough sense to do it.

>In Super Paper Mario, the elaborate story led the game away from the Mario universe, so since Paper Mario: Sticker Star I’ve refrained from using stories that are too complicated. Personally, though, I like games with stories. During the production of The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, we made use of a system for character settings and real conversations in order to build the story, which was a first for a game in a series. (I also wrote the text for this game.)
I know it's unfair to blame Super for Tanabe's decision, but I'll blame it anyway.
> Since Paper Mario: Sticker Star, it’s no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters that touch on the Mario universe. That means that if we aren’t using Mario characters for bosses, we need to create original characters with designs that don’t involve the Mario universe at all, like we’ve done with Olly and the stationery bosses.
> That means that if we aren’t using Mario characters for bosses, we need to create original characters with designs that don’t involve the Mario universe at all, like we’ve done with Olly and the stationery bosses.
What did he mean by this? "OCs are okay as long as they're not actually Mario-related"?

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>"what hasn't been ruined by Tanabe"?
Luigi's mansion

>Paper Mario is now bad because he’s paper
Shut the fuck up. I’m tired of you retards, that’s such a nothingburger that it makes the actually issues get drowned out and tossed aside as “no goomba with hat so game bad”. You neanderthals keep trying to act like you’re saying something remotely intelligible, if Paper Mario still had the same core gameplay values and story elements like 64 and TTYD while also having the paper aesthetic NONE of you would be bringing this braindead point up. And no, making a “SOUL vs SOULLESS” bait thread doesn’t count as an actual issue being addressed. Fuck off and kill yourself.

>What did he mean by this? "OCs are okay as long as they're not actually Mario-related"?

Yeah, basically. So even characters like Tutankoopa or General Guy wouldn't be allowed since they're altered forms of pre-existing Mario designs.

But the focus should be on gameplay first. It's not like LoZ or Mario Bros are devoid of story after all. Having the same exact gameplay as TTYD is what he didn't wanted. There's a reason why Miyamoto was so hyped for a collab for MarioXRabbid. It was new and interesting.

OCs are okay as long they're not actually Mario-related while making them as disassociated from the Mario series as much as possible making them look extremely out of place because muh ocs look how creative they actually are without relying on Mario species, they're about as creative as paper.

Olly and Olivia are about as associated to the Mario series as Count Bleck and motherfucking Tippi.

Didn't he direct the first 3 though?

>But the focus should be on gameplay first.
In an RPG where a lot of your time is spent talking to people and taking in the world I would seriously challenge the claim that gameplay is of any higher precedence than a good story that players get invested in. I mean the game was literally called Mario Story in Japan and took on a storybook aesthetic so at the very least it should TRY. Meta jokes and puns can only go so far, you need some seriousness and stakes in the dialogue too here and there.

But that's the thing. You'd assume that it'd make more sense to only have Mario-related OCs, given how Super ended up dictating the series direction. In hindsight, it probably explains how Tennis Aces handled its OCs.
And where does that leave the Paper Mario-exclusive OCs like those dog people?

I didn't watch the Treehouse things, what do you mean by they are annoyed by it?

The paper is the least of the issues, and fine I get the lack of OCs and shit.
But at least make the gameplay have a purpose. Make it so that people SEEK battles instead of avoiding them.

You're taking my words too far here. I'm not saying it shouldn't have story or characters should be devoid of personality, I'm saying focus should be on the gameplay first. If it's not fun, then you're forced to play through boring gameplay to get to the next fun story point. I mean, have people really forgotten how much mind-numbing backtracking you had to do in TTYD?

Yeah, seeing a toad with a crease on his head is way worse than a SHITTY FUCKING BATTLE SYSTEM AND SUBPAR GAMEPLAY COMPARED TO THE PREVIOUS GAMES, you stupid fuck.

Is tanabe.
All you assholes wanted the head of Sakamoto for one bad game but you praise this idiot for primeshit.

Daily reminder the SS remake warned us and no one listened

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The actual fucking epitome of soul vs soulless

I'm pretty sure people listened, and that's one of the reasons people call the remake souless.
That said, they at least retained most of the important/noteworthy designs like Dr. Toadley and the Elite Trio in the remakes.