I'm a Liquidfag and in general enjoy it when two arch enemies have some deep/familial connection, so I disliked how the reveal robs the power out of the final fight (highlight of a very messy game), i.e. it's meant to be Snake vs. his evil brother and when he's screaming 'Liquid!' in rage it's directed at what he thinks is his little cunt of a twin brother, not Ocelot. Ocelot merely LARPing as Liquid undoes a lot of that.
As much as I have the power of over a decade of hindsight, if they HAD to still have Liquid and Ocelot meshed together as a villain, keep the ghost possession thing and have it in such a way that the more Liquid gains control, it's basically his visage being overlayed over Ocelot's body, his voice is what we hear, etc., and you get moments where his visage thing begins flashing and flickering so you see Ocelot briefly, and then it's gone towards the end when Snake actually beats Liquid so hard his spirit is kicked out of the mortal plain. So it's still Ocelot there technically, but outwardly we're seeing and hearing Liquid because it really is his ghost taking control.
Ocelot, conversely, realised Liquid was needed in order for his convoluted plan to work, so he ended up totally embracing Liquid's total possession of his body, so Ocelot is still preserved as this big brained Xanatos figure in the story.
Did the reveal piss anyone else off? I never ever see it discussed in any detail
Liquid should've never survived in any fashion. Solidus shouldn't have died at the end of MGS2.
Zachary Ward
I prefer to imagine MGS4 doesn't exist. It's fan fiction at best.
Hudson Nguyen
What didn't you get? We're talking about MGS for fuck's sake, I wrote nothing more complicated than you'd get from reading a wiki summary of certain concepts and plotlines.
I still wonder what the hell MGS2 would have looked like if Kojima didn't decided to be a big brained boy with a metanarrative boner and Snaked remained the protagonist, and doubly so for a MGS2 sequel that chronologically took place after that game as originally planned rather than the Snake Eater prequel
Any good fan rewrites of a post-MGS2 story?
Jayden Russell
MGS is the weirdest fandom
Carson Ward
mgs4 is just bogus information that mgs2 was talking about.
>cyber ninja chop's ocelot's arm off >liquid dies of foxdie >ocelot uses liquid's hand for whatever reason >ocelot is the son of the sorrow, a powerful psychic >liquid possesses ocelot through the arm >liquid chops the arm off at some point between mgs2 and 4 and replaces it with a cybernetic one >undergoes psychotherapy and NANOMACHINES SON treatment to believe he really is liquid to fool the patriots to defeat them >he was on bad bass' side the whole time and shared the same goal as snake
Leo Brown
Ha. Emphasis on "technically".
Hudson Cruz
If you grew up with MGS: >MGS1 > MGS4 > MGS3 > MGS2 If you didn't >MGS3 > MGS2 > MGS1 > MGS4
Brody Nguyen
the liquid arm things in MGS2 was so profoundly retarded at the time that I am completely glad they took this approach in mgs4. The was the single moment in an already ridiculous game series that I couldn't extend my disbelief.
William Walker
>Did the reveal piss anyone else off? I never ever see it discussed in any detail I think that might be it. It's such a dumb ass pull that came out of nowhere that, I at least, just pretend it isn't true. MGS4 has such a convoluted story I don't blame people for genuinely forgetting either. The entire epilogue was one of the most needlessly complicated, worst timed information dumps I've seen in a video game. Also they did the same thing with Vamp and just said "nanomachines son" to explain his powers. Fuck off that Romanian nigga was running on water in MGS2. There was a clear agenda in 4 to seperate from the mysticism of the other games that I really don't understand why.
They did damage control in MGS3 by making his father a psychic.
Jaxson Lee
>MGS2 > MGS1 Why's that? I can see it going either way for a newbie
Lincoln Walker
Something about the script for this game got changed and everyone noticed.
Jordan Rodriguez
>I still wonder what the hell MGS2 would have looked like if Kojima didn't decided to be a big brained boy with a metanarrative boner
What I’ve always found funny is that a lot of people that like MGS2 are also Solidusfags and yet MGS2 kind of shat on his story to make its point. He is bamboozled and cucked in his own game by Liquid’s ghost and the Patriots and barely has any screentime. If he wasn’t a madman he would basically be on the same side as Raiden and Snake but then he taunts Raiden for no reason by revealing he killed his parents and then dies in the final duel.
I love MGS2’s fuckery and metanarrative, but if you thought stuff like Solidus, the Big Shell and Dead Cell had potential outside of what was done then you should be disappointed. On the other hand if you accept it was all just kind of a lame redux of mgs1 to serve a point unlike the other games, then mgs2 has a good subtext and metastory and that is about it. The stuff on the surface never fulfills its potential if it had any so on the metrics you would judge other games it is weaker or at least middling.
Easton Campbell
>TFW konami is asserting that the bb we meet in MG1 has the eyepatch on the same side solidus has So on top of Kojima ruining this series since 4, konami decided to double down on the original canon making this entire plot a clusterfuck of complete nonsense
Anthony Price
It was ridiculous and weird to be sure, but I'm a Liquidfag and it's a more interesting approach that him faking his death, albeit I wouldn't have been adverse to that either considering original MGS2 plans did have the real Liquid return having not really died and act as a baddie. In fact, in type this up writing now this very moment without dwelling on it, they could have had a handwave explanation for the real Liquid surviving MGS1 be some nano bullshit that Ocelot activated towards the end of the 1st game on Solidus' orders that Liquid and Snake simply mistook for Foxdie, and Liquid waking up to find himself under Solidus control for the game as a part of his plan. So many ways they could have had Liquid not die in the first game alone, but I'm only making all these asspulls and jumping through hoops because, again, I like the character and never wanted his actual involvement to stop with the 1st game
Brandon Peterson
Only MGS 1 - 4 are canon anyway.
Matthew Turner
>Did the reveal piss anyone else off? Not really. Is it a dumb retcon? Yes, but it was done to correct a mistake so I don’t have a problem with it. Liquid is a great villain but having him appear at all outside mgs1 was always a mistake. Liquid is so closely intertwined with the themes of mgs1 that taking him outside of that, makes him lose his luster, and makes him not as compelling.
Carter Thompson
>metastory It's a good metastory but as a person I never really like narratives where meta is THE point. I'd rather MGS2 simply have been a good, satisfying story with good arcs. You can have meta stuff present without taking centre stage, but that's my personal disposition.
John Martin
No. Ocelot is number 1 ruse man. You got Kojima'd. Deal with it pleb.
Nathaniel Murphy
Funny thing about that is that MGS4 contradicts 2 with a scene in it of rose telling Solid that colonel Campbell was raiden’s commander during the big shell incident when in reality the two never fucking interacted with one another, let alone saw each other. This whole series should get a soft reboot an an actual good writer; not some wannabe movie director
Charles Young
>What I’ve always found funny is that a lot of people that like MGS2 are also Solidusfags and yet MGS2 kind of shat on his story to make its point. >tfw we never got a three way cutscene fight between Snake, Liquid, and Solidus where Solidus begins to dominate both with the advantage of his suit thereby forcing Snake and Liquid to team up to disable it and overpower him, temporarily knock him out of the fight, immediately turn on each other for a 1v1 before Solidus recovers, rejoins, and the three fight ensues They probably would have done something clever with the gameplay of this three way fight too.
Reread my post carefully again, retard. It preserves Ocelot as number 1 ruse man whilst not sacrificing the emotional weight of the last Snake vs. Liquid fight.
Owen Myers
I have a feeling there would be a lot of these situations, simply cause it was a long running series and Kojima and his team writing each game as they came and not with a solid plan on how they should all be connected.
Ian Long
I wouldn't mind some high quality animated series that's able to form the games we have into a much more coherent narrative where everything genuinely feels like it clicks into place and rights certain wrongs, i.e. MGS1 Otacon ending is the real one, anything covering PP stuff is a proper telling of BB becoming morally bankrupt, etc.
Connor Ortiz
No, that entire plotline was godawful and "I was only pretending" is at least an attempt at salvaging it. Both Liquid and Ocelot were weakened as characters by that game. And least in MGS2 its barely there.
Cameron Thomas
Not him but Liquid vs Solid already happened in 1. After the mgs1 continuing with Liquid just makes him seem petty and boring. I said it before but Liquid only works in the confines of mgs1 because of how closely he is tied to the themes of genetics and in 4 the theme is gone so there’s not much point to his character.
Evan Murphy
you still get it. im using war as a business to get elected! so i can end war as a business.
Easton Scott
Rebooted a games would be interesting for certain, small gameplay updates, i.e. the Liquid boss on top REX has the little fag running away all the damn time despite him being the one that loathes Snake with a passion. Have him the ferocious one chasing you around the whole time and forcing to use some your brains to figure out how to get a hit in edgeways
Easton Russell
Otacon ending has Meryl die off-screen, that would open problems with MGS4. Since she is mentioned in MGS2 as survivor, people would usually take it as her ending being real and Otacon finding some other way out, since he is smarter and is more capable of blending in nicely, as evident by the way he entered Big Shell. If that can't work in the new narrative, another option is that she was taken by enemy and brainwashed to work for them in the part that covers MGS4, with Johnny pulling her out of it, just to give their love more weight.
Elijah Ramirez
You're replying to a comment that's replying to a comment about rebooting the franchise. You don't have to constrain yourself with that bullshit anymore, i.e. Meryls dies in MGS1, no mention of her after that in the context of being a survivor, and certainly no Johnny as a big character not ever.
Grayson Cruz
I like Meryl. If she were to really die in this reboot, then I don't want it.
