Why dont Toads have hair anymore? it just makes all the nuPaper Marios look sterile

Welp

Why did they can Toadsworth when he was in Mario Sunshine, a Nintendo EAD game? Is Mario Sunshine now forbidden canon as well?

Exiled for embezzling royal funds

>Corporate mandates
CS and OK concept art debunked that.

>I NO MAKKU DAT CHARACTA
He did though.

Dementia hits hard

Maybe GameCube stuff in general is off-limits, I wouldn't surprised with how little they reference it.

If these mandates were set before most of the franchises they apply these restrictions too none of them would have existed. No:
>Mario Land: too many forbidden character twists and an OC princess
>No Wario because he came from the Mario setting and not somewhere else
>No Wario Land because Wario would have been a forbidden OC
>No Mario RPG because that game breaks all kinds of guidelines
>No Mario & Luigi because the first game depended on a ton of Mushroom Kingdom OCs and world canon
>No Paper Mario ironically enough because that whole series is an OC by turning all the characters into Paper. Paper Mario doesn't even resemble the default Mario model.

They basically cannibalized all the series that brought them to this point of being able to manage all these different franchises in the first place.

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For you maybe

>concept art
Oh yeah because all having the most creative bits locked away in the basement isn't indicative of corporate meddling.

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Are you retarded? If this supposed mandate existed it would only affect existing characters and not entirely new ones like Wario

You're right it isn't, otherwise they wouldn't have made them at all knowing full well that they would have been removed.

Wario would have never happened in the first place with these kind of restrictions. Mario wouldn't have owned a castle with a bunch of non-Toad and Goomba wild life surrounding it and Wario wouldn't be a character who turned inot his own franchise. The Wario Land franchise is all one giant "Guideline Infringement".

Miyamoto turned fucking senile and forgot that they were modifying Toads even in mainline games.

In order to complete a concept for a product, you have to externalize a bunch of drafts before settling on a final product. This part is often where the wildest ideas will pop up. The fact that they gesture towards more creative ideas during this phase doesn't really change the fact that virtually none of them survive the finalization process, especially not for these new 3rd party Mario games.

Theres a lot of weird guidelines mario and DK cannot be partners ever(unless its mario kart or party) if they are in a game togeather DK is the bad guy and bowser cannot show up at all

I think Game Cube era Mario is literally what brought death to Mario spin-offs.
Think about it. Mario sunshine itself introduced a lot of new places. Characters and races and all the sixth gen spin-offs when nuts with it. Piantas and Nokis were everywhere. Toadsworth and Petey Piranha were guaranteed in every game.
Camelot, Hudson Soft, Intellegent Systems and Alpha Dream revelled in all the new facets of Mario's universe they could explore.
Then the wii came out and it all came to a screeching halt.

Tanabe flat out said that mandates really are a thing
It was kind of in our face the whole time when AlphaDream had to redo artwork for BiS for the remake so they can get Luigi's shade of green right and make it so his socks are not visible

>if they are in a game togeather DK is the bad guy
But why? Nobody cares if DK and Mario are pals. Heck, all the MvsDK games always end with them making up anyway. People like heroic DK.

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Daisy would be allowed but Nintendo would push hard for Peach instead
Mandates only effect original characters that derive from other characters on a design level
You're not modifying Peach to make Daisy, you're making Daisy from the ground up

Source?
Adding it to the list

>Mario wouldn't have owned a castle with a bunch of non-Toad and Goomba wild life surrounding it and Wario wouldn't be a character who turned inot his own franchise.
Stop being a retard and think for a moment. According to Tanabe himself new races are fine as long as you n don't adjust the old ones the Mario GB games fit this to a t where older enemies were as they're usually depicted but new ones also exist.
As for Wario getting a series that is based entirely on popularity and not a mandate. The only way it wouldn't have happened is if Wario wasn't popular.

>According to Tanabe himself new races are fine as long as you n don't adjust the old ones the Mario GB games fit this to a t where older enemies were as they're usually depicted but new ones also exist.
Which makes you question why Paper Mario original races have never came back
Duplighosts for example

You still don't get it do you. If there was a mandate in place those wild ideas would have come in the form of new and varied races of enemies and npcs not unlike Odyssey. Instead they chose to diversify the regular characters as if this mandate didn't exist at all.

Was Toadsworth in the SuperStar Saga and Inside Story remakes?

>AlphaDream
Funny you would mention then since they kept the majority of their unique takes on enemies.

Someone answer me this: What does Nintendo have to gain from keeping the Mario brand so autistically sterile under their dictaroship? What does this honestly accomplish?

Financial gain? Doesn't really make sense to me. Merch has existed for this franchise since the fucking '80s with TV shows and cereals. That shit went all over the place in interpretations, and barring that one awful Mario movie it wasn't an issue. This was never an issue. This was Miyamoto getting butthurt over Super Paper Mario and inadvertently causing this new dictatorship.

The world of Mario is going to shrink rapidly and stop being something worth getting invested in. Just a soulless mascot icon like Hello Kitty or Mickey Mouse; slap their iconography on shirts and shit for no reason. Kids will grow up today only learning to love Mario as an icon that they just happened to buy on their products, not as an actual world engaged with in games.

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JEDDA BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH

Tanabe probably hates them like everything else in PM.

>What does Nintendo have to gain from keeping the Mario brand so autistically sterile under their dictaroship?
Creativity. Worked for every other non PM series.

People argued it was because Dream Team was already long in development when the mandates came crashing in
It's kind of clear they were not big fans of the mandates hampering their creative freedom since the last games they did were remakes (and the extra content didn't include new original variations of Mario enemies), were planning on doing a new Tomato Adventure, and were even gonna branch off to non Nintendo system work

Original Character is not allowed, unless they're dead by the end of the game.

>People argued it was because Dream Team was already long in development
Which is also funny because SS was in development for longer than DT.

Oh, so you mean as a form of chinese waterboarding torture where the devs are spooked by the prospect of making another New game and release all that built up angst and creative energy? (Odyssey?)

It accomplishes looking good to someone who hasn't played a Mario game in 30 years who can STILL recognize him and will buy a game for their children.
>Kids will grow up today only learning to love Mario as an icon that they just happened to buy on their products, not as an actual world engaged with in games.
That's exactly what Nintendo wants.

Whi let the illiterate chink in.

And Sticker Star removed fucking everything from the 3DS beta
That Monty Mole king?
That Chain Chomp party member?
All fucking wasted and everything went back to square one

>The world of Mario is going to shrink rapidly and stop being something worth getting invested in.
In what regard? Because toad's and Koopas with hair isn't exactly substantial growth of a world.

Oh yes, because Pink Gold Peach is the pinnacle of originality

Wario became an unremovable thing before these guidelines were a constant. You are literally grabbing at straws. Did mommy give you your autism meds today?

>People using the "MUH ODYSSEY" argument
The point of that game was Mario as a fish out of water. All of the new species and characters Mario interacted with barring Shiverians don't look like they belong in a Mario game at all. It absolutely stuck to the mandate 99% of the time.

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Wario came from the Mario World. His origin is literally forbidden under current mandates. Either way a character like Wario would have had the chance to become as popular as he did under these current restrictions. Could you imagine Nintendo circa 2020 creating a character and franchise like Wario under current creative guidelines? They already don't acknowledge the franchise as something that ever existed under current branding. The last Wario Land game came out in 2001.

>Even alleged fans of Wario ignore Shake It! despite its greatness
4 is great, but Shake It! is criminally underrated. It's a shame Master of Disguise really fucked up the series.

>odyssey has next to no sunshine references besides the shirt and shades that weren't even in base game
>any traces of isle delfino on the planet obscured by clouds despite it being in pre-release ads and even still existed on the bump map for the odyssey's globe
Sunshinebros...

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>All of the new species and characters Mario interacted with barring Shiverians don't look like they belong in a Mario game at all. It absolutely stuck to the mandate 99% of the time.
That logic applies to SPM and even TTYD to a degree

Boy I sure do love when people make dishonest representations of what people want or liked about the Mario RPGs, or the expanded world in general.

I just don't get why it can't be both. Mario can have the surface level NSMB world and have the deeper world of the RPGs just underneath if you care to dive in. Why does everything have to be so shallow these days? Are people that put off by the idea there's more world they can't be bothered to engage with?

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>And Sticker Star removed fucking everything from the 3DS beta
Which is the point. These mandates would have existed during DT's development as well yet it wasn't affected.
It's also worth noting that in the SS Iwata asks they describe it in the exact opposite way in that they were allowed to alter older characters but not make new ones and not that it was a mandate but Miyamoto's suggestion.

He can't keep his story straight.

I don't know about you but SMB 1, 2, 3, World, 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, these games grew the universe. Its not just about the autism in the RPG sidegames. Those are deviations. Odyssey is the only thing that has advanced Mario as a whole and even that is hardly being mined whatsoever (Still no Broodals in any spin off after 3 years). In this same timeframe Sunshine spread its seed throughout the entire GC and GBA era of Mario games.

Alright fine, dont use the RPG shit because you dont trust the outside devs to hold up their end of the bargain. But why make the brand as a WHOLE suffer? Why can't Wario or his friends come by? Or the DK crew? Fuck's sake these guys were born out of permutations of Mario games to begin with (SML and the original DK).

Actually Shake It! was great and I just forgot about that one. Still, it fits that the game was made for the Wii when games like Super Paper Mario where also being made for it. Super Paper Mario was the beginning of the end for this kind of stuff.

Except Alpha Dream flat out said that they would get mad at Nintendo and Nintendo would get mad at them during DT's development
It's clear that Miyamoto's original suggestion eventually spiraled into making stricter mandates

I honestly thought that was a ruse to get people to draw bird porn.

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Nintendo doesn't like the GCN era because it was them trying to appeal to 20-somethings instead of their current market of kids and families. So of course they don't reference it often.
Yeah, and that's the weird part. The thing that inspired the mandate really was Mario interacting with very un-Mario characters (the pixelly art style of SPM upset Miyamoto) but you also can't modify Mario characters in any meaningful way. It's this very narrow line you must walk to be acceptable to Miyamoto. You can't be too un-Mario, but you also can't modify original characters in any way. The mandate is intentionally restrictive I believe so that the end result is nothing but on-model and marketable stuff.

>I don't know about you but SMB 1, 2, 3, World, 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, these games grew the universe
Through new locations and races like practically every Mario game not just reusing races and giving them hats and mullets.

Someone here once said Miyamoto wanted Antasma to be removed from the game but I have never found the source for this so I assume it was a load of bull. But it does sound like something that may have occurred during development.

>All of the new species and characters Mario interacted with barring Shiverians don't look like they belong in a Mario game at all.
You don't think the cartoony Mexicans with painted Lava Lifts for heads fit the Mario aesthetic? What about the mermaids in the Lake Kingdom? Or the dot eyed fork people? Or the french beach snails? I'll give you the New Donkers and the Steam Gardeners, but even then, they don't look so out of place that you can't rationalize them existing in the Mario World.

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Yea and warioware gold came out two years ago....

>at Nintendo and Nintendo would get mad at them during DT's development
Yeah? And?
Without knowing what they actually got mad at this is a worthless leg to stand on.

>because it was them trying to appeal to 20-somethings instead of their current market of kids and families. So of course they don't reference it often.
Funnily enough, the Gamecube era was seen as the beginning of the end because of Wind Waker's artstyle and that stupid fucking Mario Sunshine commercial