Any News on Linux CoC saga?

Is there any news on the linux CoC saga?

Will anyone rescind?

Why has Eben Moglen been silent over these last two months after declaring that he will "correct" those saying that copyright holders could rescind.

Why does everyone say "this is wrong, but we won't lower ourselves to explain how/why".

Is it because they are full of shit?

There is no attached interest.
The grant is gratuitous.
:. It can be freely revoked.

Just like any property license.

"But if they promised they wouldn't revoke and we reasonably relied upon that we have this state law affirmative defense".
They didn't, you can't reasonably rely on what doesn't exist, (note: the case would be removed to federal court as it relates back to a federal case or controversy.), and still no consideration was payed to the rights-holder for this supposed forbearance..

Why is it that I have explained the law, and I'm "WRONG",
where as Eben Moglen and others have NOT explained their claims and they're "RIGHT".

And why is no one talking about this anymore.
Why is it that they can simply make declarations and it is "Correct"
but when I explain the black-letter law, and refute any cases that are brought up,
I am "Wrong".

Please explain this to me, I do not understand.
And why is there silence now?

Other urls found in this thread:

icei.org
illinoisjltp.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/kumar.pdf
sfconservancy.org/news/2018/sep/26/GPLv2-irrevocability/
copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech8.html#x11-540007.4
lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/27/221
lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/27/219
lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/27/214
lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/28/312
lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/28/301
8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/https://8ch.net/blackprocedure/
kiwifarms.net/threads/mikeeusa-michael-mcallister-mikhail-kvaratskhelia.19315/
lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
lkml.org/lkml/2018/10/26/52
mentalhealthamerica.net/recognizing-warning-signs
news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12682608&cid=57401302
news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12682608&cid=57403506
news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12682608&cid=57408874
news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/29/055210/richard-stallman-says-linux-code-contributions-cant-be-rescinded)
boards.4channel.org/g/thread/69158935#p69159102
boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/198421322#p198422100
encyclopediadramatica.rs/MikeeUSA
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Yes: The linux devs can rescind their license grant. GPLv2 is a bare license and is revocable by the grantor.
Raul Miller rauldmiller at gmail.com
Mon Dec 24 16:02:08 UTC 2018

Previous message (by thread): Yes: The linux devs can rescind their license grant. GPLv2 is a bare license and is revocable by the grantor.
Next message (by thread): Reason for RedHat purchase 30 pct over market cap
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

(1) Wrong mailing lists - these are not linux mailing lists.

(2) ... (I am not going to go over the legal mistakes you've made,
because of (1))...

(3) Anyways, ... people do make mistakes... But, please stop making
these mistakes.

Thanks,

--
Raul

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:55 AM wrote:

Notice they never successfully refute the argument that with Linux the GPLv2 is a bare license, with no attached interest to bind the grantor, that is freely revocable by the grantor thusly.

That is the black-letter law.
They just say "nu uh, you wrong, and I'll not LOWER myself to explain, mysoginist mmmaaallleee scum"

I'm not wrong.
There is not even an affirmative state-law defense of reliance since there was no promise not to revoke (not that that is a sure defense, absent a payment for such a forbearance or a reasonable reliance on such a promise)

There is nothing to bind the grantor.
Nothing.

And yet they keep saying "nu uh, you're wrong, and not a lawyer, and should be locked up for practicing law without a license"

Message Body
Bruce Perens :

The anonymous person is generally thought to have appeared on the net
previously as MikeeUSA. That entity has a well-recorded history of misogyny
and other anti-social behaviour. He's also complained to me recently that
because of "people like me", the law prohibits him from marrying very young
women. I mean single-digit young. Although he is not at all meritorious of
your civil behavior, you may not wish to lower yourself to his level.


I strongly doubt it. I've had my own run-in with MikeeUSA; I remember
it vividly and unpleasantly. The prose style doesn't match. MikeeUSA
could barely maintain coherent communication; this guy is using
language that indicates he's at least several degrees brighter.
--
Eric S. Raymond

My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: icei.org
Please visit their site and donate: the civilization you save might be your own.

Subject:
2 months and no response from Eben Moglen - Yes you can rescind your grant.


It has been 2 months. Eben Moglen has published no research.

Because there is nothing more to say: The GPLv2, as used by linux, is a bare license. It can be rescinded at the will of the grantor.

The regime that the FSF used, vis-a-vis the GPLv2, is essential: copyright transfers to a central repository entity that is sure not to rescind.

Linus chose not to adopt this regime.
He benefited by greatly increased developer contribution.
The price for that windfall was and is the retention of their traditional property rights by the property holders.

They can rescind at will.
They made no promise nor utterance to the contrary that can be relied upon.
They were paid no consideration.
There was no meeting of the minds.

Additionally the CoC regime itself is a license terms violation, being an additional restrictive term, as explained in the other analysis. (Similar to the GRSecurity license violation)

On 2018-10-26 18:31, Eben Moglen wrote:

Hendrik Boom wrote:

Subject:
The CoC regime is a License violation - Additional restrictive terms


Version 2 of the GPL forbids the incorporation of additional
restrictive terms, relating to the distribution, modification, etc of
the article licensed under the terms.

Those that violate this section are declared, by operation of the
terms, to have their grant automatically revoked.

An additional term need-not be present in the same writing. Such terms
simply need to be present to or made known to the taker(sub-licensee) by
the distributor. They may be proffered in writing, orally, or
implied in the course of doing business dealings. They simply must
relate back or involve the article in question (the licensed code or
product.)

The proffering of additional restrictive terms is a violation of the
text of the license grant in and of itself.

Here we have a situation where an additional writing has been
proffered. The additional writing promises both in it's own text and
by implication consequences against those who violate the terms of
this additional writing.

The additional writing restricts those subject to it from expressing
certain views publicly - promising retribution against those who do.

No consideration is paid to those subject to the additional writing
for their assent; it is simply imposed unilaterally against the
subjects.

The violators of the additional writing are promised:
Additional, unwanted, public scrutiny (to which they were not subject
to prior)
Public ridicule.
Loss of public standing.
as-well as an implied loss of future income.

These are the enforcement mechanisms of the additional writing to
enforce its restrictions against those who publish derivative works of
the kernel.

The additional writing is activated when (with the prerequisite of
being a derivative work of the linux kernel) the work of a rights-holder
is incorporated into the kernel, when such a work is made known to the
kernel-team to exist where any one person on this earth has seen fit
to present it for inclusion, or by simple prior-inclusion into the
kernel.

Thus all current and past rights-holders who have code in, or have
published for distribution, derivative works of the kernel are subject
to the retributive promises made to them in the additional writing,
drafted to restrict their actions and utterances.

This is tantamount to an additional restrictive term regarding the
modification and distribution of works under the linux kernel license
grant.

It is a violation of the license terms of the rights-holders past
incorporated works in much the same way that GRSecurity's
Contributor Access Agreement was and is.

Bradley M. Kuhn: The SFConservancy's new explanation was refuted 5 hours after it was published:


Yes they can, greg.

The GPL v2, is a bare license. It is not a contract. It lacks consideration between the licensee and the grantor.

(IE: They didn't pay you, Greg, a thing. YOU, Greg, simply have chosen to bestow a benefit upon them where they suffer no detriment and you, in fact, gain no bargained-for benefit)

As a bare license, (read: property license), the standard rules regarding the alienation of property apply.

Therein: a gratuitous license is revocable at the will of the grantor.

The licensee then may ATTEMPT, as an affirmative defense against your as-of-right action to claim promissory estoppel in state court, and "keep you to your word". However you made no such promise disclaiming your right to rescind the license.

Remeber: There is no utterance disclaiming this right within the GPL version 2. Linus, furthermore, has chosen both to exclude the "or any later version" codicil, to reject the GPL version 3, AND to publicly savage GPL version 3 (he surely has his reasons, perhaps this is one of them, left unstated). (GPLv3 which has such promises listed (not to say that they would be effective against the grantor, but it is an attempt at the least)).


The Software Freedom Conservancy has attempted to mis-construe clause 4 of the GPL version 2 as a "no-revocation by grantor" clause.

However, reading said clause, using plain construction, leads a reasonable person to understand that said clause is speaking specifically about the situation where an upstream licensee loses their permission under the terms due to a violation of the terms; in that case the down-stream licensee does not in-turn also lose their permission under the terms.

Additionally, clause 0 makes it crystal clear that "You" is defined as the licensee, not the grantor. Another issue the SFConservancy's public service announcement chooses to ignore.

Thirdly, the SFConservancy banks on the ignorance of both the public and the developers regarding property alienation. A license does not impinge the rights of the party granting the license in a quid-pro-quo manner vis a vis the licensee's taking. A license merely grants permission, extended from the grantor, to the licensee, regarding the article of property that is being impinged. A license is NOT a full nor is it a permanent alienation of the article(property) in question. The impinged property, being under a non bargained-for temporary grant, can be taken back into the sole dominion of the owner - at his election to do so.

Now as to the 9th circuit appellate court's decision in Jacobsen v. Katzer . While the court waxes eloquently about opensource licenses, even mentioning the word "consideration" in it's long dicta, when it comes time to make the binding decision the court found that the lower (district) court was in _ERROR_ regarding the application of contract-law principals to the Artistic License, regarding the case, and instructed the lower court to instead construe said license as a Copyright License.

The SFConservancy, and Bruce Perens have chosen to:
1) Rely on the dicta. (non-binding - "some things could be contracts - opensource is great")
2) Ignore the actual ruling. (Binding - Copyright License - Not Contract)
3) Ignore that this case was about the AL, not the GPLv2
4) Ignore the existence of different jurisdictions.
(Why file in the roll-the-dice 9th district if you can file in a district that has personal-juristicion over the defendant and is much more consistent in it's rulings?)
5) Ignore all established law regard property licensing, contract formation, meeting of the minds, what consideration is etc.

Which is not surprising considering the desire of people like Bruce Perens is to rob MEN of EVERY benefit of their Labour and every speck of happiness in life and to transfer those benefits to WOMEN and those who support women.

(This is why people who are like Bruce Perens, the SFConservancy menbers, and the CoC supporters, banned men from taking female children as brides: in contrivance to the law of YHWH (Devarim chapter 22 - - verse 28 (na'ar (LXX: padia)), and continue to uphold that ban world-wide, and seek to destroy ALL cultures that do no bend to their will.... who are not idolators of Women)


Look, you may love your users, you may love the people who edit your code in their home or office; but the fact of the matter is...

They have done nothing for you, they have promised nothing to you. They CANNOT hold YOU.

You have the right to rescind at any time, and remove your work from any future versions of Linux. And you might consider doing so if YOU are done harm.

Don't let the insatiable, never-satisfied, public fool you into thinking otherwise.

And, yes, I am a lawyer.
And, no, unlike the SFConservancy, I did not have to call upon outside counsel to analyze the fact pattern. (And even then all they could come up with was statements using weasel words "may" etc: not even wanting to commit to their clearly-disingenuous publication)


(Note: If you would like to read a nice discussion on the topic, here is one illinoisjltp.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/kumar.pdf )

On 2018-10-25 08:19, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:

On 2018-10-29 22:31, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote:
> sfconservancy.org/news/2018/sep/26/GPLv2-irrevocability/
> copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech8.html#x11-540007.4

Why is there silence now or just "nuh uh, you're wrong, because... reasons... "