Linux 5...

that sounds hilariously retarded. so when are they going to stop supporting all the software that only works with binary blobs like gpu and wifi drivers?

Go use Windows if you like bloat so much.

They don't stop it from working. All they do is refuse to work with it. The binary blobs work hard to work for Linux and not the other way around.

The *BSDs sadly aren't much about choice, you get the pre-decided package and that's pretty much it. The Ports system is like gentoo's portage, just a lot more awkward.

A good thing would be a kernel fork that keeps updated with upstream but de-fags it of all the recent poor choices. Wonder how salty they would get. It's all perfectly fine inside their precious license.

Sadly forking the kernel at this point would be a massive undertaking that also would take quite a bit of skill. Probably easier to jump ship.

the only thing that worked on btrfs was btrfs-restore.
will never use again in my life.

even more reasons to start migrating to teo. linus is a cuck.

Take NetBSD and fork it. Now you got all the choices you want. And it's not any more work than fumbling around with LFS. MirBSD actually did this, but forked from OpenBSD. People were (are?) using it, so it must have done what they wanted.
Anyway, pkgsrc is pretty flexible, although I don't know the pros and cons vs. gentoo, but it's probably enough to suit most peoples' customization needs.

fsf.org/licensing/zfs-and-linux
And it belongs to Oracle now, which is a company known for it's sue first and talk later scheme.
gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#CDDL
If Microsoft would re license Windows under a compatible GPL license I would be happy.

Try to work on day in a government administration and you'll see the mass of work that it brings when people with incompatible licensing comes to discuss, it's easier when license are compatible from the start.

It's called not giving away freedom in the sake of compromises.
What is the linux-libre kernel.
linux-libre.fsfla.org

This. Actually we can't stop people from activating back the functions.
I encourage people to use a unblobbed kernel and distribution to see how much non-free/libre software is actually needed nowadays for a computer to work, you'll see the real state of tech with all it's compromises.

holy shit, Linux is owned by jews. I am switching to Windows soon

...

Funny thing is that they think their license is fully operative under US law and the binary blobs are doing something wrong...

Haiku only works if you set a cute young girl as the desktop background. It uses huristics to guess the age of the girl.

Anime girls work.

github.com/minipli/linux-unofficial_grsec/wiki

Bring that forward.

killall wife

...

Okay, fuck this. Is bsd any good? Even macOS is probably better at this point.

...

Wouldn't it be possible to retrofit *BSD with a functional package manager like Nix or Guix? That should solve the package problem by allowing users to mix and match packages as they please (i.e. you could have different, possibly conflicting, versions of the same package installed).

I think it'd be easier to run gentoo with a *BSD kernel, I remember it was an option at one point anyways

wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD

well what do ya now, should've googled first. If it actually works is anyones guess, gentoo has a lot of cruft like this that hasn't worked properly in years, if ever.

I've tried FreeBSD and OpenBSD. My home server still runs FreeBSD and it Just Werks™ for that purpose. I used FreeBSD on my laptop as well, then later on OpenBSD on my desktop and laptop. There's nothing I outright couldn't get done though sometimes elbow grease was required. The BSDs' audio ecosystem didn't have the never-ending interface fragmentation that Linux suffers from but I vaguely remember the stacks being somewhat lackluster though I can't remember the exact reasons. Beyond that, many things just ran slower than I'd grown accustomed to on other OSes. The most obvious example to me is full disk encryption. It took over two minutes to unlock my laptop's drive versus about 20 seconds with whatever LUKS implementation I'm using now. I ended up switching it back to Void (which I'm still happy with) and my desktop to Windows 10 LTSB (which makes me want to off myself though significantly less than its consumer counterpart; its time is running short).

Your mileage may vary. Some more notes: HAMMER made me look into DragonFly BSD but I decided against using that particular flavor though for what reason I cannot recall. Likely didn't do something I needed. I didn't look into NetBSD at all.

Ironic

Wasn't there something with Microsoft getting in FOSS board or something?

You mean the Linux Foundation, yes. The shit on Linux isn't their fault though, in all the years and with limitless funds Microsoft didn't do to Linux anywhere close to the damage a few SJWs did and that many cucks allowed to happen.

I'm with Greg on this one.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 02:01:48PM +0100, Rene Schickbauer wrote:> To be frank, your argument, which boils down to "GPL is the only correct> open source license", makes me ashamed to have been advocating people> switching to Linux. This is exactly the kind of argument that made me switch> away from closed source operating systems like Windows, only then it was> Steve Ballmer using it against open source.What?No, my argument is, "If you want to interact directly with Linux kernelcode in kernel-space, then you have to abide by it's license, which isGPLv2". That's it. If you wish to use open source code by anotherlicense, wonderful, I'm not telling you what you can, and can not do,but please, do not violate the license of the code I contributed underGPLv2.ZFS could be the best filesystem ever to grace this planet, that'sfantastic, but given that the creators of that code placed it under alicense that was specifically designed to not be compatible with Linuxto prevent it from ever being used on Linux, well, you can see why Ireally don't care about it. Why would I?Those copyright owners (well license owner at this point in time) couldfix this all tomorrow if they wanted to. But they do not, so _THEY_ arethe people you should be upset at. Not at the Linux kernel developerswho are giving you a kernel on which to use on your systems, for free,under the GPLv2. Our position has always been very clear and upfront.And really, so has the ZFS license creators. So why is anyone upsetabout all of this? Nothing new has changed here with the license ofanything.best of luck!greg k-h

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>fsf.org/licensing/zfs-and-linux
So? 99.99% people who use Linux don't give a shit about that and neither do the maintainers of distros that offer ZFS or the ZoL devs. Common Law means their 'interpretation' means nothing until a lawsuit is taken up (which can only be done by the devs) and won.

The ZFS people use is a fork of the code, it has nothing to do with Oracle.

You are right, which is why people should use BSD style licenses.

Yep, BTRFS is shit and will never be stable due to early design decisions which is one of the reasons why it was abandoned by RedHat. Unfortunately XFS also has major issues.

wrong. It just werks.

Wrong topic. Wrong board.

Whether you're right or wrong, it would likely take more time and effort to relicense all components of Linux project than it would take to rewrite it or ZFS.

Is this the freedom that GPL brings?

Freedom to use ZFS which even uses (((intellectual property))) in its license, CDDL?
Pretty much everything that sucks WIPOs intellectual dick isn't worth shit.
You have *BSD, why don't you use that? If you are asking, than you shouldn't have started using GPL-licensed software in the first place.

This is the freedom that GPL brings.

Libertarian_nightmare_vs_paradise.jpg

No, it works perfect for me. I use it on my laptop and it constantly runs out of battery while writing to disk and I've never encountered any issues with it.
It was only abandoned because not enough people on the team understood how it worked.

It would take less time to just write Linux compatible OS from scratch in a modern programming language than it would to do either of those things, also people don't trust the way ZFS works but rather the implementation (ZFS itself).

Are you trying to shill Rust here?

Rust hadn't crossed my mind when I wrote that, I was just thinking "something more modern than C89", but sure, Rust would be suitable.

based

Day of the fork soon

can't argue, i've had a 4tb btrfs partition that i've flogged the crap out of, even through periods are absolutely unstable due to AMD Ryzen bios being unable to automaticallt detect the correct timings for ram, it still goes zero corruption, zero failure, reboot in the middle of writing to it at least 50 times

github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/issues/8259
Linux 5.0: _kernel_fpu{begin,end} no longer exported #8259
there goes any sympathy i had for zfs dev's.
faggots

Oh, more bickering about loicences. How original. Go public domain or go home. Lets ban loicences and put all lawyers in jail and see what these people do.

I also want more freedom to not be able to do things. Freedom to do what you're told is clearly the best kind of freedom. Also the freedom to fork it, because originality is against the rules, or something.

It should be illegal to make more money off of art than you put in. If you stretch the definitions enough to include software, it would be the end of hollywood, google , zuck, and almost (((everything else))) wrong with society.

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lmao

The problem is depeer than that. The problem is copyright. Intellectual property. Imaginary property.

That's what we as a society need to get rid of as soon as humanly possible.

Linux hackers are absolutely right. The fact that they break kernel space frequently and LEAVE PROPRIETARY FAGGOTS BEHIND is the actual reason why people actually contribute free software drivers into the kernel tree. What would happen if they provided a stable kernel ABI is the proprietary faggots would immediately target it and not release shit as result. As it is now they HAVE to upstream their shitty code because Linux accepts 10+ patches every single hour and they are literally going to be left in the dust if they don't stop fucking up.

Shut up, upstream your shit and stop complaining because nobody cares. If you can't or won't, fuck off.

What does it take to get a barely working copy of Arch Hurd?

A miracle.

Just liberate your FS, you retarded commie.

Development into drivers. We'll need a USB stack with drivers for devices and wifi networking drivers at an absolute minimum. At the moment, there isn't even SATA disk support.

Most devs simply ignore linux, if forced to support it they do the bare minimum to get a running implementation.

That's their problem. Linux and the BSDs basically sell hardware in server markets so if they want to push out crappy products with crappy proprietary drivers that barely work all the more power to them.

Protip: the GPL relies on the existence of the concept of IP just as much as copyright. Copyright and copyleft are two sides of the same coin and you can't get rid of one without getting rid of the other.

Thats more because of how fucking awful Linux is to develop drivers for rather than license shittery.

t. someone who has had to develop Linux drivers

Drivers for enterprise hardware are usually pretty good for this reason but they only support a small number of LTS distros like RHEL or Ubuntu LTS, the only thing this sort of attitude hurts is Linux market penetration into the consumer space. In reality though all it will result in is more functionality being pushed to userspace, where you have a stable API and can use basically whatever language you want, Linux already supports userspace filesystems and drivers so I hope you will like having proprietary userspace drivers and filesystems written in Rust or street shitter languages like Java all over your system.

I know. The point is to get rid of everything that depends on copyright. GPL included.

Just upstream the driver. Now if some kernel space ABI changes, the people changing it will just fix your driver for you. There is absolutely no need to support some ancient distros only. That's crappy customer service. It's much cheaper and just plain good business to upstream your code.

This would work even if the kernel was BSD or something. It moves too fast for the license choice to matter. Standard license enforcement policy is to simply outrun the retarded proprietary faggot until his product becomes shit. Who cares if he took our source and closed it up? It's a toy. The kernel is timeless and will keep improving infinitely.

Linux just doesn't hold the same advantageous position outside of server markets. Maybe it will get there someday. Who knows. Last time I checked into this, Microsoft had created a locked down online store and it's really threatening Valve's business model o the point they started developing Linux solutions instead. That's the exact type of market shift that can put Linux in a position of power. Hasn't happened yet though. We'll just have to see.

Hey if you want to come up with some shitty user space file system, all the more power to you. Enjoy wasting time, money, personnel developing and maintaining a subpar product that simply can't perform as well as the real thing just because you don't want to upstream your code.

But most enterprises who are buying hundreds or thousands of V100 GPUs or FPGA accelerator cards are going to be running LTS distros so why put the effort into supporting anything that doesn't make up 99% of your use cases?

So which billion dollar tech company do you own?

You joke but most of the HPC world is Linux running parallel userspace filesystems such as BeeGFS and Lutstre, and I believe its Redhat who is developing a userspace filesystem in Rust which hooks into the DBus system.

My point was that this faggotry isn't helping.

Valve is being eroded by multiple companies, with Epic being the biggest one Epic/Fortnite is big enough to tell Google to go fuck themselves over the Android Play Store and instead has instructions on how to install the game manually. Valve's Linux thing is more an act of desparation since they have nothing outside of their Steam, their games talent is gone and their recent release (Artifact) which they banked on big time as the next hit thing flopped hard. Valve deserves to die.

But that's wrong, you fucking retard.
Are you for real? The microsoft store is an absolute joke, almost nobody uses it, and Steam has suffered no consequence from it.

There have been more and more little issues like this cropping up lately, all of which make me want to switch to OpenBSD full time. There are some niggling issues I have, such as poor support for my particular laptop's GPU and power management, but I can always obtain an older Thinkpad.

I too find it delicious.

Haiku looks great actually. I used BeOS as my main OS for a few years back in the late 1990s.

Valve is hardly being "cucked" just because somebody else is making money elsewhere. Steam is fantastically profitable and Valve has been aggressively pushing Linux as a viable gaming platform.

because enough tards will install it this way while they still lose people that can't or won't do it.

neither do other companies, valve not wanting to suck microsoft dick in case they go even more retarded is hardly desperation.

valve makes money from literally doing nothing at this point, artifact bombing means fuck all for them, especially since they don't have shareholders to satisfy. that's not how valve works.

so, what is it? you were retarded and got vac banned or you're personally offended that valve can't count to 3?

This is (unintentionally) deceptive and often used by GPL supporters as propaganda against anything CDDL licensed software. The intent was not to spite the GPL, it's simply that vendors had proprietary drivers. The CDDL allowed them to distribute full source releases of OpenSolaris, WITH their proprietary source code too, without changing their license and without forcing the license on the entire project.

Video related
youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=1390

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Fuck these faggots

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VIDF is in full shill mode I see

Its the only way to install it on Android that even normies do it, its popular enough that the extra money they get from not having the play store take a cut of their microtransactions more than makes up for the tiny percentage of people not smart enough to install it manually.

Neither actually, I haven't logged into my steam account in nearly a year. They deserve to die because they are basically just a store at this point and don't produce anything of worth.

Going forward the only thing which differentiates them from other online distribution platforms (GoG, Epic, Origins, etc) is the exclusive IP Valve offers, everything else can be released on the other platforms. Artifact was Valves first new IP in a while and it flopping means a failed attempt at making their platform stand out against the rest.

Its a lot like consoles are now, where you have games from first party studios such as Naught Dog which are exclusive to a platform (the PS4 in the case of ND) which allow a manufacturer to differentiate their console from the competition since many of the games from 3rd party studios will end up being released on multiple consoles as well as PC. While the position Valve finds itself in is slightly different as many people have large Steam libraries its not going to stop normies from switching to another platform if the games they want to play aren't available on Steam.

Valve has shareholders, a company doesn't have to be public traded to have shareholders. Gabe only owns half of Valve.

Given that they have probably lost all future Ubisoft titles to the Epic store (along with the general attractiveness of it compared to Steam for small developers), and their internal conflicts over censorship of titles on Steam the future of the platform seems uncertain even if they are doing fine currently.

That is not what happens at all, the Linux developers don't give a fuck if they break even the upstreamed drivers because the only sort of systematic testing is done by the likes of Redhat and Canonical and they only care about hardware in the systems their uses are likely to have. I can't even count the number of times I have experienced devices not working properly doing embedded development that turned out to be due to a change in the kernel that broke the upstreamed drivers and as a result had to rollback the kernel version to when the driver actually worked.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, BSD kernel APIs are quite stable between major releases because the developers aren't monkeys and are instead actually capable of architecting an OS. Also the FreeBSD is contributed to and used by Sony/Nintendo/Apple/etc so having a stable API between major releases is a requirement since those companies actually care if parts of their system get broken (unlike the Linux devs which don't give a shit beyond it compiling and not causing a kernel panic on their specific system).

You poor fool, it's jews all the way down.

Wow, it's fucking nothing.

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Are you kidding? Valve/Steam is basically an online gambling platform. They're making ridiculous amounts of money. No wonder they stopped making games.

The real question is why is btrfs such garbage? If they wanted to make their own zfs all they needed to do was look at the source and figure out how it worked then do similar stuff. Why is it STILL not stable?

That's always been the case with Linux. Always. Only the user space interfaces are stable. Kernel space is completely unfriendly to anything out of tree. If you don't upstream your shit it will become outdated and unusable.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:>> Linus Torvalds wrote:> >> > We're not talking about internal kernel stuff. Internal kernel stuff _does_> > get changed, and we dont' care about breakage of out-of-kernel stuff. That's> > fundamental.>> Start caring. People spend lots of money supporting you, and what you are> doing. How about taking some responsibility for that [...]Cry me a river, Jeff.The kernel is GPL'd. That's my responsibility. Source code. Stuff thatcomes to me as patches. That's my job, and that's what I get paid for. Infact, my contract says that I _cannot_ work on anything that isn't opensource.Stuff outside the kernel is almost always either (a) experimental stuffthat just isn't ready to be merged or (b) tries to avoid the GPL.Neither is worth a _second_ of anybodys time trying to support, and whenyou say "people spend lots of money supporting you", you're lying throughyour teeth. The GPL-avoiding kind of people don't spend a dime supportingme, they spend their money actively trying to debase and destroy what Iand thousands of others have been working our butts off for.

based Linus

It is stable though. IIRC it's only soft RAID 5 that's marked unstable. It's unstable due to having a problem even normal raid 5 (using a hardware controller) has

The basic trouble with the modern world … is the intellectual fallacy that freedom and compulsion are opposites. To solve the gigantic problems crushing the world today, we must clarify our mental confusion. We must acquire a philosophical perspective. In essence, freedom and compulsion are one. Let me give you a simple illustration. Traffic lights restrain your freedom to cross a street whenever you wish. But this restraint gives you the freedom from being run over by a truck. If you were assigned to a job and prohibited from leaving it, it would restrain the freedom of your career. But it would give you freedom from the fear of unemployment. Whenever a new compulsion is forced upon us, we automatically gain a new freedom. The two are inseparable. Only by accepting total compulsion can we achieve total freedom.

Surely year of linux on desktop is coming soon.

You're confusing freedom with safety.
Need I remind you of what happpens when you abandon the former for the latter?

I'm literally quoting you the main villain of the Fountainhead. Sorry if nowadays it is so perfectly possible to find yourself in front of an Ellsworth Toohey that this position seems like something a living, flesh and bone person would dare to say.

Given the rest of the thread, that's hardly surprising

It's not a distinction between freedom and safety, but between negative and positive freedom. A better example of its application is in the case of addiction. Suppose someone smoked cigarettes, but wanted to stop. They might try quiting, but feel a compulsion to smoke more. Even as no government controls them, we would not say this person is very free. Now the government passes a law banning cigarettes. Even as a negative freedom is taken away, this person becomes more free overall. What the person you'e responding to is missing is that positive freedom only makes you more free when it lines up with what you wanted to do anyways. If you enjoyed smoking, then the government banning cigarettes would be an imposition.

Note that positive freedoms are essential to have in a society. The classic saying goes "your right to swing your fists ends where my nose begins". Why there? Should I not be barred to swing my fists near someones nose, or even when they are in the same room, since I might make them uncomfortable? Shouldn't I be allowed to swing my fists into their nose, since they should have gotten out of the way? The choice of when to limit one persons freedom in favour of another's must come at the balance not of freedom but of desire. Most people don't find it very important to swing their fists, whereas they do find it important to not be hit. So we draw the line where no one is hurt, even where a minority might be restricted from swinging their fist through its full range. No matter where we draw the line it will restrict someone, but positive freedom tells us where to draw it to restrict people the least.

Spoken like a true Ellsworth. The problem is not that you're saying something false, you're speaking evil in plain sight, disguised in truth.

Or, to be more grounded. You're deliberately misusing the term "negative freedom" and you're using arguably (and just arguably) restrictions as an argument of why other restrictions are reasonable. Ultimately, you're trying to justify a definition of almost no one uses.

If your motives were honest you would be content with calling what you want not-freedom, if you trusted the boons and happiness that such "freedoms" things would bring you wouldn't try to appropiate a word as some sort of second hand intellectual parasite.

The freedom not to be killed is a freedom. The responsibility to not kill is a restriction. What do you call that method which decides what to restrict and what to allow? Should it not be done in a way that most preserves what people want to do? Since one side must be chosen, mere negative freedom would allow us to give awards to serial killers as equally as it allows us to ban butter knives. Some decision on which freedoms are important and which are not is essential to freedom itself.

No, it's a guarantee.
Freedoms are a subset of guarantees.
Faggots that redefine words to make their point should kill themselves.

Where did you you read that? The author of it should be flogged. This assuming you didn't just make it up.

Everyday, the SUN rises again.

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I wish they were still around.

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Fuck you're dumb. Driver can ignore all traffic signs by malice or mistake. In either case he will run your ass down. All these signs mean is it will be his fault instead of yours when the justice system starts scrapping your remains off the ground after the fact.

Hey as long as this job pays 300k/y nobody will care. Also, make sure not everybody has these guaranteed 300k/y jobs because if you give it to everyone you'll just inflate the dollar.

In a country without well enforced traffic laws, you're much more likely to be run over by a truck. By this logic GPL doesn't affect your freedom, because the FSF will have to sue you to stop you.

From the ashes Joyent rises.

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Try the hardware. That shit is completely dead.

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I can't argue that one. However some people (outside of Oracle themselves) still make SPARC chips/configurations. And luckily the future looks bright with things like Open POWER, RISC-V, etc.

We can hope for a spiritual successor to one day make rack systems that can produce the loudest fan noise imaginable while being in the sexiest of chassis. Nobody is going to ever be able to top the SUN logo/badge though.

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SPARC has a defined death date now, though. Fujitsu dropped it for ARM, will probably only release one last chip, and nobody else uses it (even though it was libre far before RISC-V was even thought of, hell there were the OpenSPARC T1/T2 chips) because of Oracle.
I only hope for MIPS to gain traction again when it gets opened, as I like it.

But I agree that the Sun logo is damn snazzy.

wat, I have ultraSPARC systems and they are great. About as modern as any powerpc. There's still vax support in some bsds so I think it will be a while before it's really dead.

I meant in further chip development. It doesn't and won't continue to live on, as opposed to the software under illumos.
Sun hardware is excellent, it lasts for ages, I agree.

The point is you're not actually free from anything. Any retribution comes after the fact. People waste ridiculous amounts of time and money pursuing what amounts to petty state-sanctioned punishments as revenge for a violation that shouldn't have happened in the first place. It solves nothing, it prevents nothing, it guarantees nothing. All it does is inflict pain and isolation on people in the hope that it will discourage others. It's a failure. It may reduce infractions but not completely eliminate them. Therefore, you as a pedestrian are not free enough to simply cross a street without looking both ways.

That is precisely the logic. I can simply take other people's projects on github and dare them to do something about it. Most of them aren't going to do shit. Think a bunch of volunteers have a lawyer on retainer? Hilarious. Think China gives a shit about your copyright and the fact some chinese faggots are violating it? They will do nothing and and if they change their mind later lawyers will use the fact they did nothing before as evidence they didn't intend to enforce the copyright anyway.

Have you ever been to the emulator community? That one is a comedy. They'll GPL their software, get mad when people sell it on app stores (which is something they actually can do) and proceed to do nothing about it except bitch. Even in cases non-commercial licenses are violated they do nothing.

GPL violation is the norm. The only reason to worry at all is if you're some rich company since it does make you a target for petty state-sanctioned revenge. Poor faggots don't get sued.