Ok, commies. Explain me one thing. What will people force to work under the communism? Really what will them force to work if everybody gets according to his ability and his needs?
What will people force to work under communism?
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Threat of gulag
I think people would prefer to work rather than the entire civilization collapsing. Name ONE (1) change in a mode of production that resulted in everyone saying “WELL I GUESS I’LL NEVER WORK AGAIN”
Surely if I don't need to live under constant threat of dying in poverty and hunger unless I work for porky, I wouldn't work at all. I would just sit on my ass all day doing literally nothing, welp ok I would breathe I guess. Now seriously
a) spooks gonna spook. it's becoming more and more of a thing that people turn their dreams into reality and do what they want + get paid for it
b) only reason why there are low level jobs already replaceable fully by machines is because capitalism would need to let people replaced in those jobs die or feed and it can't or don't want to afford any of those alternatives
c) sharing your work is becoming more and more common, not only in science or IT sector where people gather in groups and work on common project providing the results (means of production) for free (free of charge and free as in freedom) to others but also it's becoming thing in art (namely music, where the price of music went so low that already people just give their music for free or that "name your price" tag), probably literature, other fields of technology, etc.
You don't need to force people to work dummy spook, the only reason why people don't want to work is because the word "work" now represents wageslaving from 9 to 5 (and in many cases even worse, if you need 2 jobs, working on weekends, etc.) doing job you hate, you can't see what you produce, you see no results, you are just every day waking up and putting effort into something that is not just not your own but often you can question the importance of your job. People love to self-realize their potential, they love to put work in a things that are meaningful to them and they love to contribute to something greater and/or beneficial for them or to larger group of people. So not only your premise is false (that people ultimately don't want to work and you have to force them to work), but the funny thing is that the thing standing in a way of worker's freedom is capitalism itself.
Look at the production levels of venezuelan oil after it got nationalized.
It is a fact that workers have less of an incentive to work when the government runs things.
I'd like to know how the ussr dealt with the issue.
That's some grade-A analysis there.
Well why did the oil production keep dropping after it got nationalized then?
I mean, it's pretty simple, the state will just implement harsher and harsher penalties (including the death penalty) for non-workers and other reactionary wreckers.
For one, Venezuela nationalized oil production in 1971 when they founded OPEC. For another, I am not particularly following Venezuelan oil production very closely, but I would think that with oil prices being in the toilet right now, a drawdown in production would make sense until the Canadian tar sands become too unprofitable to sustain. Oh, and there are the sanctions.
Or, maybe it's a cuck plot to raise the price of hand lotion so that we pure-blooded virgin Aryans can't fap to our 2D waifus until we get desperate enough to have sex with 3DPD, thus making it possible to literally cuck us! inb4 this becomes an actual Zig Forums conspiracy theory.
Oh I just love right wing graphs whose axis start at some fucked up non-0 value for completely non propaganda reasons.
I think that workers should rate each other and allocate a limited amount of points to what they think each of their coworkers deserve.
If someone gets a failing grade they should be demoted and do some unpleasant job for a period of time.
If it hasn't been tried I don't see why.
Also, workers don't need to be forced to work under communism, that's the whole point. That the economy is mechanised/automated enough and the culture has progressed enough that you don't need to coerce people into working. It's an end goal not something to achieve tomorrow.
I commented in one of cockshotts videos and asked that question and this is what somebody wrote.
So the factory workers would be payed in accordance to how much they produced and then taxed to pay the public workers.
>capitalists have to make people work to earn money
Mr.cockshott already gave an answer.
I say we listen to what he says.
We should all be cockshott-ists.
Get some new material.
it probably already is
I don't think that's a good idea, user
dude it's automated luxury communism why wouldn't there be a robot to unclog it
Quality signs that you don't even know enough about the topic to formulate a question.
A communist agrarian society would work to be a industrial society while a developed communist industrial society would work to be Kardashev 2 society. By the time your a Kardashev 2 society, human labor would be laughably antiquated, anything human workers can do robots could do better, cheaper and be more expendable. For example you ask a robot to go on a one-way EVA to fix a space ship and a robot will happily do it while a human won't.
They can't answer you because there is no answer.
Communism is a theoretical ideology.
This guy gets it.
He pretty much explained how communism put to practice works.
Though it is not how Marx and Engels imagined it so you can always say that it wasn't real communism afterwards.
"so we have a job nobody wants to do. fortunately we now have a socialist society where things are made according to need - and since there is a thing that needs doing and yet people don't want to, it is in our common interest to find ways to work around that, by technological, social or planning advances in those fields. suddenly there is a strong incentive for investing in self-cleaning or highly-automated septic tank maintenance design and technology.
this as opposed to a capitalist society, where the profit motive and the relatively large reserve army of labour even for disliked jobs like septic tank maintenance keeps the wages down, meaning there is no incentive to invest in minimising the labour spent doing it."
Victor Glushkov would beg to differ. Glushkov pushed for cybernetics and full automation in the USSR. Stating the question of motivating human labor was the wrong question since human labor is inferior in every possible way.
Want to try that again but in English this time?
Not an argument
Oh boy, I have a feeling this might cause the people to either revolt against their capitalist masters. Or it might go too far to a luddlite like thing to outlaw and destroy automation.
Despite automation, capitalism still requires you to look out for a job.
High industry, high infrastructure, high education, high unemployment
automation doesn't just happen by itself. if we have capitalism with perpetually low wages, automation isn't worth the investment.
What language do you speak?
Is the joke that you're Russian? Did you get that pic off VK?
I'll try to answer your question, here. I think you're joking, and the way you phrased your question makes it a bit confusing just what it is you're asking.
Nothing will force people to work. There are a few reasons for this:
1. People inherently crave activity and to have a role in society.
2. Work will still get them paid, even if their necessities are covered (ie full housing)
I'm going to elaborate on this first point - the concept of lazy people today is almost a total fraud. A lot of people don't work because in many ways working in a capitalist society can become a liability as wages stagnate. If you have a bad experience or multiple bad experiences - wage theft, nonsensical firing from a job, doing agonizing work for agonizing people and being paid less than you can live on - then you may become discouraged. You may not want to buy a whole lot of things - perhaps all you want is a small place of your own, food to eat, things to do, and money to save or spend. A lot of jobs render this sort of modest living impossible.
Other people don't work because their families are rich or they own companies or property which they can charge others to use.
When capitalism denies people an opportunity to work, to play a meaningful role, it often affects them negatively. The idle rich express this by working only for more power - they become isolated pricks. In general, people may often drop out or result to crime or violence or heavy reliance on drugs or other stimuli.
Capitalism can't function without unemployment, so there's no way around it. And since rich become richer and poor poorer all shit in society constantly escalates.
Currently porkies rely on anti-monopoly laws to mitigate effects of it and prevent revolutionary situation (because they read Marx/Lenin too).
So far communists didn't seem to come with anything to overcome this.
Everyone will work for themselves. It's that simple. Basic survival.
Either way, with the advent of automation, this will be a moot point under socialism.
Read Jevons, there is no such thing as automation, only efficiency multiplication:
This. Under capitalism, higher efficiency just means lower prices, causing demand to increase until the labor pool is again exhausted by whatever jobs are needed for "automation" to operate. Only through conscious political reform can society collectively decide to impose a ceiling on demand, reducing labor per capita.
I dunno, ask Bob Black
Work is bad, and you should be forced to make widgets for cars no one will buy
In the lower stage of communism people have to work to receive anything at all (i.e. "from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution"). In higher stage communism the productive forces are at such a point that all necessary labour is either automated or highly streamlined, making most work simply unesscessary. People can then devote their time into improving themselves and/or engaging in leisure.