Freetards can't into design

- stop putting useless shit in the UI and making it pop out more than everything else
- never use a very dark drop shadow unless you need something to stand out a lot, like a popup window
- you can surely live with less empty space between items in the list
- show where the fucking scrollbar's boundaries are for fuck's sake, whoever invented this "line floating in air" shit needs to be fucking hanged
- borderless windows are the gayest invention known to comfortableness of man, it causes nothing but problems
- you have a navigation on the left so make use of it
- I'm too lazy to fix it but everything is too big

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That's how it works:
1. Make a free program work
2. Make it usable
3. Make it look good

Some people care more about freedom and usability, than design. I won't use a proprietary program, just because it looks better, nor because it works better. Also nonfree software isn't flawless regarding it's design. I've used MacOS (that wasn't my choice) and I didn't like overall experience. The same for Windows - crappy eye candy, so many unnessessary things. On the other hand I like tilling window managers like i3.
I don't like KDE, but it seems usable.

...

Go be gay somewhere else.
Real men don't even use gui shit unless there's definitely no alternative.
You fucking nigger.

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It was not always like this.

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Look at all that GUI he's using for everything except his own OS toy

Can we all agree that one thing GNOME excels at is design? Just try to compare it against any other DE, they aren't even trying.

Obviously the aesthetics they chose are shit, I won't even get into that. But why such inefficient layout? This seems to be a very common thread, in package managers, other software, the recent change in Gmail's UI (and the previous ones too). Seems like the idea is to add a bunch of dead space and then put some useless eyecandy in it. The justification always comes down "well our users are brainlets so they can only process a little bit of information at a time, and somehow they're incapable of focusing on one part of the screen at a time either, so we have to artificially reduce how much information we show them".

In your case, why not make a table with columns like name, icon (very small, like 16 or 32px), rating, description? That way you could display 30 items in the same space instead of just 5. You would instantly have a great way of sorting according to various things. You could copy/paste into excel to do your processing or sorting if that's not enough. Why do they always make such gay pseudo-touchscreen interface? It wouldn't even be good on an actual touchscreen because the install button is too small.

IMO the problem is all the brainlet-tier debate in late 90s and early 2000s which created butthurt that it wasn't year of the linux desktop yet. People didn't want to admit that GUI can sometimes makes tasks easier, because that would mean abandoning the command line fetish that justified 90% of linux tools available at the time. So they came up with this retarded idea that GUI is some magic hypnosis spell and if you just find the right pretty colors the normie will be hypnotized into using your OS. As opposed to, you know, making actually useful interfaces that make things easier instead of furiously asserting that everything should be done in a command line. So the faggots started copying macs. Since the idea was as shallow as "if you make it look flashy they will come", a lot of faggot brainlet "designers" got into FOSS projects, and were of course given authoritative positions despite lack of intelligence or skill. They then got to work making interfaces with movie UI-tier lack of functionality and visual bloat.

I prefer MATE

GNOME's design is shit if you consider that it's a hybrid design meant for touchscreen devices - and tablets are presently pretty much dead.

This. Hybrids don't work. You can either make a good touch screen interface with big buttons etc. or you can make a great desktop interface.
Even on a laptop the hybrid shit makes no sense and then even less when the laptop has no touchscreen.

I don't understand why tablets aren't used more than smartphones. It's much easier to interact with the larger display, and it still offers the tard-proof computing experience that people nowadays seem to enjoy.

What kind of reasoning is this? If it works better, then you are better off being more productive than having to screw around with your """"""freedom"""""".
It's like trying to drive a screw into a board with a hammer. Sure it can work, but it's dumb to do.

It comes from web design. Pic related, Discover at different window sizes, note how the interface adjusts. Instead of having separate GUIs for desktops, phones and the web, we get the worst of all worlds.

I think the idea of responsive web design it a good one, but it was intended for displaying documents, not providing functional interactive user interfaces. Here is the technology they are using for it:
kde.org/products/kirigami/

Anything that thinks that a hamburger menu is a good idea is shit.

You can't put a tablet in your pocket and take it with you on the toilet. Phones are OK for being phones, but tablets are really much better in my opinion.

Those who value convenience over freedom deserve neither. Just look at the shit UI Windows has become.

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what fucking design? how has design been a consideration in the computer world in ANY product made in the last 20 years? your stupid picture is indistinguishable from any of the other corporate consumercrap you can get on a mac or windows or the web right now. if you are able to percieve a difference, YOU are part of the problem. you go around sucking off your peers in the """UX""" community about some new font or subpixel rendering or some other inane shit, while your GUI is absolute garbage and impossible to use for anything other than being a cucksumer who goes onto a website shopping for a new bathroom sink and after painstakenly navigating through the animation-ridden marketing bullshit for the top new two sinks on the website, buys the second one

firefox isn't open source. it's made by a corporation. and its GUI is terrible just like chrome and IE

if you're trying to be ironic, literally nothing wrong with that picture aside from a shitt unsanitary house. CRTs are literally better than LCDs in every way except they're bigger

Gnome 2 shit was decent, mainly only because it had decent key bindings. gnome 3 is fucking garbage and if you insist that spending 3 minutes booting up "Eye of Gnome" or post-gnome-3-Gthumb to view a single image in your memes folder, i'm going to punch you in the face through TCP/IP

>kde.org/products/kirigami/
[enable JS enable JS enable JS enable JS enable JS enable JS enable JS enable JS enable JS]
what am I supposed to be taking away from this spam site?

If you want the P so much fuck off to >>>/g/. Everyone here values having basic op sec and not being bound by a legal agreement over potential tiny improvements to software (protip: almost all proprietary is just as shit). The entire selling point of mac is that they "pay attention to fine details like le true artisan craftsmen", and therefore there will be slight improvements in some of the GUIs here and there (in practice it's fucking trash).

Because the market for dumb people is much larger than the market for smart people. Computers aren't for intelligent people now. They are for the dumbest people you can find. Intelligent computer users are just an afterthought now.

None of KDE's other applications remotely stoop to this level of ugly. No other KDE application fails at immediately impressing me, let alone making me want to throw up.
How can a ball be dropped this hard?

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I assume you made this post in lynx in a tty?

Trinity is nice, Cinnamon is OK, XFCE and Fluxbox are alright...

WHY THE FUCK DID YOU INSTALL KDE? JUST TO BITCH?

I just vomited a little bit in my mouth

nah, w3m

What's wrong? It even looks fancy due to the shadow effect they put around the boxes.

GUIs are trash most of the time. They can make themselves not trash by taking the user seriously. That's not the case however. Do you like being treated like you own your computer?

Sucks to be poor, I bet your headphone still has wires.

objectively better than windows 10

it's literally just an overpriced capri sun pouch gimic juice dispenser, there is no juicing, the juicing was done at the packaging facility

There are actual vegetable/fruit pieces in there, chopped, skinned and all that

He was being ironic i think

Firefox is free software. Corporations don't matter. It's all about the software license.

If everyone used proprietary software when it was "better", free software wouldn't improve to cover more areas. People need to be willing to try new things and go off the beaten path so that someday we can all use free software for everything.

IIRC orange juice separates and goes rancid really quickly unless it's sterilized, which removes the orange flavors so regardless of whether it's "from concentrate" or not you're just buying whichever company's flavor packet you prefer the taste of.

Unless you juice it yourself. Which you'll struggle to do with some bag squeezing apparatus.

If everyone used free software even though it was worse, free software would have no reason to improve.

Yup, KDE has shit layouts by default and it's store is trash.

That's not how it works. Free software is often being created by enthusiasts that make software not for profit, but they want to make software better and better, which is not the case for people working in big corporations, just because they don't want to starve.

He says, while posting a webm of a meme OS idolized by larping kiddos, running in a VM, from his stock Ubuntu install.

Repeat a lie long enough it becomes true.

Design with OOP looks easy at first but when you're doing it- it's actually hard. Are you a codelet. I bet you're 17.

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proptard Google for-free-because-you-are-whats-for-sale edition (TM) UI:
youtube.com/watch?v=CDjjo1kFTvs&t=4m53s
it's barely shown in this dumb video because of how cancerous and unpleasant it is. And you can only see it in video because people automatically clean it up for photos.
the fucking thing
and just look at how many pixels this thing eats for no purpose. You want messages in a channel to hug the bottom margin of the channel when displayed? Don't you know it's 2019?
it's just a clusterfuck of bad UI. It's assault. It's rape. It's domestic violence. The people behind this should be tried for treason against the human race and for allying themselves with evil Lovecraftian entities, and then shot, and then buried in a mass grave along with the only unrecoverably-damaged backups of the source code, and (secretly, to punish anyone daring to unearth it) Anthrax.

Never thought of that. Most platforms use the same emoji sets and that new skintone thing (fb goog discord yt)
It's nice that you named a lot of issues with these botnets but don't forget about the fact that they do all these too:
>control your feed to control your subconscious like putting VERY tragic news content every 5 feeds and make you depressed
>survey users based on their zodiac for real
even copy all gps location data, MAC addresses remembered even nearby wifi AP that you never connected have their MAC addresses snooped to pinpoint you
Phones are literally the gateway to terrible opsec not to mention those hidden EMF patents that can synchronize your brain into a certain pattern that puts you in various states same way upbeat music can make you active while blues and slow rock can put you in a relaxed state
PCs can also do that with certain monitors and dotnetFX API

Enjoy you're tumour

Are you even a programmer? If programming is what you love, you want to make good software.
There is a lot of good free software out there, and I'm really sorry, that you're unable to comprehend it. If your definition of good software is just about if it has fancy UI, then you're probably a LARPER

design is for gays and cattle and gay cattle

look at the site that you are attending, does it look appealing to you?

yeah it's fine. Especially relatively. And other clients exist.

For their own definition of better.
In practice, this means shit like ReactOS working on completely out of scope features while being nowhere near its stated goals, systemd spreading faster than cancer because it's less work for the maintainers in the short term, gentoo leaving an RCE as root open for more than a fucking decade...

At least with free software I can make my own design.

With proprietary software, you can make your own design but that design is limited to the limits of the API provided to you. In practise, each proprietary software owner is required to reimplement common function routines because they're not allowed to make use of some other person's proprietary software.

How many pieces of software (not made buy you) have you made your own design for?

What I don't understand is why aren't UIs more easily moddable? There's lots of amazing graphic design people and artists out there that could make all kinds of unique and stylish looking UIs. Some would be unusable and totally shitty but at least you could pick and chose.

Why has it become so goddamn impossible to switch out a few buttons and bars with custom graphics? Win95 and OSX Tiger were highly customizable visually. There were limitations but over time this has gotten much worse, not better. What bothered me the most was that you could change the windows of the OS but not individual programs.

I'm not good with computers but overlaying just the graphical UI of any program seems like something that should be really simple. I would love for everything I install to look the same and fit into a theme that I chose. Why isn't there an option to make it so?

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Because designing a moddable UI is hard: even after you deal with the obvious "how do I stop a mod from removing its own uninstall button?" security issues, there's a lot of subtle assumptions everywhere in the original UI that have to be reconsidered.

Right but what about, and this a computer retard speaking here, a separate program that just produces an overlay without actually changing the program or code beneath it.

For example if the original program were a painting, instead of changing that painting, there would just be a translucent sheet put on top of it, on which you could then place your own graphics, like layers in photoshop. So if there's a green car in the painting you can just put a red airplane above it, without removing the green car or changing the painting underneath.

A purely cosmetic overlay produced by a separate program that tracks the UI of the original program and produces its own UI on top of that which just acts like the original in functionality.

Wouldn't that be possible? The idea seems so simple to me, somebody must've already thought of it and tried it and there's a reason for why it doesn't work, I'd just like to know why.

Fags are the reason design sucks now. Everything has to be a gay tablet interface now. Things were better when straight white men were designing shit.
Should've stopped with Windows 2000 tbh

I assumed user meant Gnome2 tbh

Yes

Exactly. Just look at this shit.

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Slow (has to draw the UI in two passes minimum), inefficient (has to draw over things already drawn), prone to errors (easy to not cover 100% of a button's hitbox or not rescale the same way), doesn't have any advantage over a classic UI replacement.
What do you do if the red airplane does not cover the car completely?
What if there's something next to the car that you don't want to cover, but that ends up under the airplane's wing?

Well, these are the worst examples you could pick. Pooettering makes his init(operating system), not to make good software, but to have controll over distributions. ReactOS is made by people, who just want to make their proprietary software run on the free operating system, don't know why. Don't know much about gentoo, but it seems retarded.

But there are good programs and distributions, in my opinion: Guix, GuixSD, i3-wm, etc.
Even if free software isn't perfect, you at least have a source code.

Win95 already had a functional UI. The theming was just to reskin it. It didn't have shit like removing the start button or adding a dock. Terminal autists have spent years telling themselves GUI is just for brainlets, so they have less knowledge and understanding of GUIs at this point than a grandpa. They think they can just make a barely working GUI, make it moddable, and modders will make it not suck. What they fail to understand is modders can't fix a non-working UI, they can only make look pretty.

The other thing is feature creep. The community seems to largely follow the opinion of a few hipster faggots. Those hipsters generally have trash opinions like wanting docks, animated minimizing, or other pozzed shit they see on macs. Being hipsters they all have a different opinion and their opinion changes with the memes of the month. As a result devs get this schizo idea of what GUI design should be, they try to support mutually exclusive GUI paradigms at the same time and complexity goes out the wazoo. They don't have the backbone to pick one paradigm and tell their faggot users to deal with it. Actually it's not even users, it's their IRC butt buddies, whose dick they ride because they think they're design gods, which is why they can't ever tell them to fuck off.

Commercial companies know their audience and design accordingly. Software for high-IQ people like sysadmin tools or scientific software focuses on efficiency instead of eyecandy. It may look complicated because of many options and buttons, but they will be arranged sanely and to a high-IQ user having everything in sight that will actually make it more usable. In contrast to freetard design that just throws every button on 3 toolbars with no rhyme or reason. Software for brainlets has simplistic/minimal UI, sacrifices functionality for pretty effects, because brainlets are too retarded to appreciate functionality. They are like children, attracted purely by "ooh shiny". Freetards listen to brainlet complain about power users software (which isn't even for them) being too complicated, then they try to make power user software with flashy minimal UI. Of course the result is a shit experience no one likes.

Freetards generally put little thought in their target audience. They pretend that they're writing software for the whole of humanity to use, so it has to accommodate every kind of user. It ends up not offering a particularly good experience for any user, and a particularly bad one for the 2 and a half autists that actually do use it. If the autists try to give dev feedback on UI design, he lashes out and asserts it would break workflow for "other users" instead of listening to what a real user is telling him. Where are these other users? Do they exist? Has anyone seen them? They exist only in the devs delusional fantasies of becoming the killer app that gets 99% market share out of nowhere, any day now, just you wait! Conveniently, that also means the dev is always right on every design decision, and there's no longer need for pesky things like user feedback and making changes accordingly.

They are examples of FOSS devs not improving their software by any reasonable definition, which is the point I was arguing, so...

I wrote "Free software is often being created by enthusiasts".
Often doesn't mean always.
Malware that is released under free software license, isn't as common as proprietary malware, because the former is too easy to see.
There are a lot of reasons for creating free software: gnu.org/philosophy/fs-motives.html

People often create free software non for profit, because it's their hobby, so they want it to be good. Sometimes it isn't working, because they don't have enough time or knowledge, but that's not the reason to think they're not trying to.

...

Is lonix tear-free yet?

Firefox is literally generated by a markoff chain trained with A/B testing and telemetry to make that autistic Chris in the corner of your class go "woo look at the new shiny GUI". The rest of the budget is spent on non-software tasks such as marketing and diversity campaigns. The software sucks monkey dick for any practical purpose. Saving a page or image or anything takes up to seconds (as in, you can't do anything for the next few seconds when you hit ctrl+s because the entire GUI is frozen) depending on your computer's load and cache states. Seeking in video is dog fuck. Given that these innate tasks can't even be implemented properly, the rest of the experience as implemented in JS and CSS is an order of magnitude more crap. It doesn't matter that Firefox's source is open because nobody will waste their time reading that crap. It's thousands upon thousands of lines of garbage to implement bell and whistle #35273578235. Half the code is just workarounds to mitigate the latest brower-induced XSS,CSRF,Clickjacking, etc.

Uncoupling the program logic and user interaction mechanisms would solve that problem. Instead of making terminal autists write GUI or even TUI, a good library that has the necessary logic with test case coverage is enough. Then any program can use it, be it a simple function add-on for calling it via terminal, a TUI or a GUI. It's a lot worse when you have to pry the good code off some retarded interface (keeping in mind that nobody fucking comments their code because it's too much for FOSS).

That is serious retarded.

Original the web was meant to be, that information was rendered different and depending on device and recipient. So sane and complete reverse what is tried today.
That gave graphics designer a hissy fit, because the presentation of merchandise was so different from the catalogue.

So what was the rationale for Ubuntu to antagonize and losing their user base?
I see what Microsoft did, not the first time, struggling to catch up to a trend, mobile computing, tablets and smartphones, not to be left out. Like last time in 1997 when they made the browser the UI of Windows 98, to fight off and destroy Netscape that threatened them to make their browser the universal UI of the web and of applications via JavaScript. Then quite utopic, today strange a deja-vue.

Tooootaly surprising!

There is free software on Windows too. Some people want to use proprietary software for longer than either the OS or program vendor has intended.

Programmers are not necessarily good designer most of them, were designer is more than a person that is good in painting and thinks it knows about pretty colors.
A designer, as in program designer thinks in the “form follows function” thought, ergonomy. While first there is a function to fulfill (that is were most programmers stop), there is also a user interface, necessary user interaction of equal importance.

Having free Windows is cool and all, but writing an entire OS, just to run nonfree programs, you can't maintain, because they are abandoned? Wouldn't it be easier to write free programs for free operating system, like GNU/Linux, *BSD, whatever? The GNU's purpose wasn't having a free OS to run nonfree UNIX software, but to have an entirely free environment, and that's whare it takes it's power from. ReactOS doesn't seem to have this power. They try to keep up with Windows but they can't, because microsoft is faster at making the operating system, that runs nonfree software.

Yes, in Wayland. Vsync (and all VRR "solutions") is still fucked in every piece of software ever on every OS though so who cares? If your criteria for using a GUI is that you're seriously retarded.

its open source so go make it better if you dont like it

windows did never really support custom themes. you had to use a unofficial dll hack to get them working.

I think the idea was to take over the win32 API, not to clone Windows. In the end it makes no difference for which API you write your free program and there are closed source programs for Linux too. If they had managed that, to make a Windows compatible alternative that would have removed control from Microsoft over that API. Like the IBM PC clones did to IBM, that became a commodity in the economic sense only to be usurped by intel.
There was really a chance to make this true, in the stagnant years of XP and the failed introduction of Windows Fister.
Why the win32 API, because of legacy, the enormous number of software already written for it. People don’t like to do the same work over and over, other don’t want waste time to relearn how to achieve something they can do already with legacy software. The PC market is a captive market with a hen and egg problem for anybody to move the user base to an alternative. Thanks to Microsoft valiant attempts to cut legacy "cruft", introduce a touch interface and apps for server OS, disappreciating the win32 API, there might be another chance for alternatives.
I don’t see reactOS, like Wine, to go anywhere. Like OS/2 (Wine is much like OS/2 if I would be Microsoft I would sponsor them ) with it win16/32 API it is not going to pull people away from Microsoft, lack of support, resources just gives the impression that Microsoft "is the real thing that everybody tries to copy".

XFCE or bust tbqh. Everything else is borderline unusable.

This! I like to think of it as a three-tier project: first you write a library with a well-documented public interface for all the functionality you want to expose. Then you write a command-line interface on top of the library. It does not have to have all the bells and whistles, just make it possible to access every piece of functionality of the library. Then you can build a GUI on top of the library. Users can then choose which tier they want to use. Grandma can pick the GUI, a CLI user can pick the terminal interface, and if someone wants that functionality in his program or if he wants to build another GUI he can just use the library. Prefer Qt over GTK? Take the library and write your own interface.

This is what Transmission did, they have interfaces in GTK, Cocoa, Qt, the web and ncurses.
transmissionbt.com/

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This is how we end up with web browsers inside desktop programs.

This is only a problem if you're not using the command line.
Niggers can't into command line - Terry

Problem is you have tons of different people with tons of different design ideas and no real regulation because it's all FOSS. Gnome is a bit better at this, but at a huge cost of pretty much distro fascism.

You're wrong on so many levels, why don't you just spare the world the effort and kill yourself for being gaytarded?

I didn't know that about Transmission (I use qBittorrent for muh meta search), but it's exactly what I had in mind. FOSS has the advantage of being able to spearhead these kinds of things, due to almost everything being made as a hobby and free from corporate meddling.

How so? "Desktop apps" that are basically shit bolted onto a headless browser come exactly out of the reverse situation - things that are designed for the web being so inseparable from it that creating a basic port of your program would cost too much developer effort. In the case of building library-first, you could write the logic in a lower-level language and transpile the product into JS code if you really wanted to (Nim can do it, for example). You can't do the reverse easily.

>>>/reddit/

New KDE UI isn't bad tbh. If disover is installed it usually means you're running a system where it's reasonable to assume that you'd want that.

If you want gnome2, theres mate, which is nice. Other than that: desktop environments can be customized pretty extensively now as long as you have the mental capacity to use a menu.

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The "hack" was just removing a signature check. It absolutely supported custom themes at the code level.

Are there any good books on how to design good UIs? Because if there are then there’s really no excuse for how bad a lot of modern UIs are.

Introducing Sway:
sr.ht/lJ9C.webm

fucking dummies. This is how REAL UNIX SYSADMINS use their desktop. 3x3 workspaces, btw. Can't screenshot them all at the same time

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I bet you haven't even touched an actual UNIX system

CDE is deprecated, FVWM was a rival when it came out and I like this better. It is hyper-customizable to the point you can customize to individual pixel.

Looks fine to me.

Resized for convenience.
Source: danyspin97.org/talks/discoverlinux/

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I don't even like having a cell phone despite it's hard keyboard

but does Transmisison support RSS?

...