Old Hardware Thread

The Amiga 4000 was pretty much the last nail in Commodores' coffin, which is funny since it's worth so much for all the hipsters now. I have a lot of OCS era expansions for the Amiga (I'm the anonfag in the last thread who talked about how he got them when Commodore went bust) and I would not recommend one. Disregarding the Battery/Capacitor damage they have, they're consistently undervolted by (shitty) design and therefore unstable, AGA/Zorro III is buggy/unfinished and getting expansions for them is difficult and expensive and they're just not lots of fun and you'll regret getting one. If it absolutely has to be an Amiga, Get an A500. Some german guys designed a small 68k 16 Mhz + IDE Port expansion for it. If you google around and know a little bit of EE, you could rebuilt it yourself. (The hardest part would be getting the 5V RAM chips it has, but I'm sure the chinese have that stuff.. also maybe the 68k chips, no idea if/how rare they got now) Then get an SDCard-Floppy emulator. You'll be able to run all programs that are interesting to run if you have no nostalgic investment. Just please don't cut up the case for the Floppy emulator. No matter how apt you are, it'll looks like shit. With some (reversible) soldering you can connect it to the external floppy port and the Amiga will recognize it as drive 0. (which is important as drive numbers are hardwired into most games)

Well, I assumed with your question you meant "if you could go back in time". If you're actually looking for a system to use now, I'd go with a PC, the software selection is a lot bigger. If you want something truly nobody uses and doesn't need any space (albeit from a later time) I'd get an earlier Cyrix/NS MediaGX Thinclient. Tiny energy-saving computers that can be had for a pittance on eBay and they're somewhere between a P166 - P233 MMX performancewise. You can get lots of stuff running on them. If you want something with more historical relevance, an IBM PS/2E. Tiny, fanless system with fast IBM 486DLC CPU and optional FPU. Needs the fitting, IBM approved ECC RAM though. I have one - cool, high quality system. Love it.

198X: C64C
199X: iMac G3, complementing 200X
200X: P3 PC, complementing 199X

This is the most versatile setup for my interests. The G3 can be swapped out for a P3 and the 200X P3 can be swapped out for a PPC Mac Mini but the other way around is preferable since it gets you OS 8 rather than OS X.

Can we all agree that Dell Precisions are GOAT next to Toughbooks and IBM ThinkPads?

I have two more Precisions but don't have a pic of them. Currently fucking around with a beater M6400 as we speak.

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God I would love a PowerBook. Apple might be shit, I wouldn't say no to a Pismo with a G4 swapped CPU board.

Speaking of old hardware, here's a Compaq ProLiant I sold last year with a Pentium II in it. Great machine, not so great is that HP paywalls everything because muh enterprise.

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what do you mean? they paywalled drivers or something like that?

You need to have a account or some shit with HPe to acces old ProLiant drivers, pretty fucked up stuff.

jeez. what a shitshow. you would think they wouldn't feel the need to bend you over for 30 year old drivers.

what system are you talking about here user

Look at anything marketed towards gaymers.

Should I grab these? 35 bucks for both of them on CL. I would have jumped on it, but it's a city away and not easy for me to get to.

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it also seems like the Amiga 500 can run an emulator for the c64 and early DOS games.

I could only find one of those on ebay at the moment. also hard to find the ps/2e rather than a regular old ps/2.

I guess if I were to get something I'd probably go for an Amiga 500, then. It uses 3.5" diskettes, right? I have some lying around that I could use, but I guess writing to them would be a problem. if I put a game onto one from a PC would the diskette even be readable by the 500?

for 1990 and newer I'd probably build a nice DOS PC with a Pentium MMX or something. Well, I might not even actually build it because it seems like buying a tower on ebay is cheaper than sourcing all the parts.

I just saw a video online where an Amiga 500 is connected to the Internet and got it working with email too.

youtube.com/watch?v=tztA6g7NKqA

and with the right packet driver you can get a DOS computer online as well.

The one on the right is a Satellite 430cdt. I don't know what the one on the left is, T9i60ct?

Do it. I had loads of the Pentium era Toshibas over the years and they're solid machines.

For 35, do it. You could probably sell one for more than that on ebay anyway to make up for your perceived losses traveling a city away or whatever.

A 486 and Pentium?
I'd say go for it.

Looks like a consensus has been reached buddy. I'll be expecting you to post pictures once they are in your posession

Many 4xx Toshiba laptops are great because thay have true Yamaha sound chips, very versatile processors and can accept either a FDD or a CD drive. They're also valuable to a niche of mechanics because some span of some sports car has hardware that has a hard time interfacing with anything else. 'd do it for that price so long as it takes less than 3 or 4 hours to fetch.

I just want a Compaq Presario with Windows 98SE and a Pentium II.

One more day until my stuff arrives. I can't wait to reinstall windows XP and devuan on my thinkpad.

Played with devuan in a virtual machine and XFCE runs alright on 256MB,but its cutting it close. Are there any other light weight DEs similar to XFCE that I could use? I like XFCE because I can make it look like windows classic

What makes you say apple might be shit? The Power line-up was a beautiful line of interesting computers, much more exciting than another IBM clone. The apple of today is not the apple of the 90s/2000s.

Not him but most Apple products are painful to maintain. Dozens of screws, a CD drive, ten connectors, your neighbor's car's alternator, all coming out just to access the HDD. Many flat or tower profile Power Macintoshes suffer from this as well or have their own problems. It only got worse after Jobs came back (iMac, 1998). It's like he barged into the design and engineering departments and beat the shit out of them until they agreed to bury the wear-and-tear parts down under as many boards, shields and cables as possible.

That said, while I dislike Apple Computers (big C), I certainly do not dislike Apple computers (small c). System 4, OS 8.1 and Panther/Tiger are important operating systems to me, along with appropriate hardware. Though I was never much of a Mac user, I used a few of them and the ecosystem was a catalyst for many things I hold dear. Then there's also the basic appeal; everything from early Macintoshes to their newer, pre-aluminium consumer hardware was simply stunning. The company's historical lineup and evolution is the most accessible viewport into the history and evolution of consumer computing, the Internet and all that entails. I just wish I could play around with them as easily as you can play around with most of their competition.

I found an older macbook 1 or something (not sure, probably before 2005) and it was pretty nice, but hard to open up. I just wanted to see if I could fix it up and I cut my hands and got metal splinters in my fingers jusy trying to open it because its all glued together and stuff.

Is it really worth buying a PPC Mac? I use SSH with my T42 already, but I feel a desire to buy a G4...

Trinity, LXDE.. or how about just running a window manager with your choice of applications (IceWM with SpaceFM etc)

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ifixit.com/Device/PowerBook

The iBooks are a pain to service, PowerBooks easier, Power Macs the best (but loud)

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It's a 90s computer

ifixit.com/Guide/PowerBook G4 Aluminum 12-Inch 1-1.5 GHz Heat Sink Replacement/550
It's certainly pretty difficult, but at least it's doable... unlike neo-Apple machines.

What you should get depends entirely on what you want to do. If you're going to use a non-Apple OS and are just trying to escape x86, I'm sure there's better alternatives. An ARM single-board PC probably comes close to a G4 performance-wise at a lower watt rating.

!

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Part of the appeal is the lack of botnet, but mostly it'd be a vanity purchase... IMO the best "modern" IBM ThinkPad was the T42, and I get great use out of it with SSH. I'd do the same with G4. OpenBSD support seems to be good, right?

can you explain this a bit more? I'm not very experienced with Linux DEs and stuff. how would this work?

I didn't intend for it to be pic related, just wanted to post a nice image

the T40 series was really good IMO but I think it had some build quality issues. my T40 feels less stiff and sturdy than my T430. the palmrest is cracked and the screen connector has issues. It's 15 years old and I don't know what the previous owner did, but still. the SSD will be a nice upgrade, but having empty PCMCIA slots lets the left side of the palmrest flex a bit too much.

Stupid question and might be offtopic but
What are these coils for in my PSU (it's for an old ass PC I'm about to clean up) and what are the chances it will give me the big ol zip zap? It's from around 2004, never been opened, and i plan to
Model and brand is ISO-450PP
It wasn't powered on since November

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It's probably a transformer.
You can discharge the caps by placing a load on it, like a fan to one of the molex connectors, and then i think you short the power switch pin with the ground pin on the 20 / 24 pin connector. The fan will either spin for a little bit or nothing. If you haven't had the thing on in the past 15 years, I highly doubt there is any charge left in the caps.

It was on last time in November

They might have a small charge on them, but I'd definitely discharge them before opening it up to be careful. Just look for an ATX header pinout, either 20 or 24 pin, and connect a wire between ground pin and power switch pin.

Think of your favorite distro like painted and sometimes softly glued together LEGO bricks...

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Alright, thanks
Can you help me identify which one is which?

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Are you sure that psu is from 2004? I never ran into one with a separate CPU plug from then.
Anyways, you have the 24 pin header, so look at the ATX 2 side of this picture.
See where it says PS_ON# for pin 5, the green wire? Stick some insulated wire into that pin then stick the other end into one of the black wires that say COM (that means COMMON).
Don't forget to have a load like a fan hooked up to one of the molex connectors.
It shouldn't take but an instant to discharge the caps.

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Whoops, it's not pin 5, it's pin 16 for the PS_ON#.

My 68k Mac Peforma is probably the cleanest engineered system from that time period I've ever seen. It doesn't have a single screw. I kinda want to buy more 68k Macs but the need for more than one escapes me. I thought the other day that all these black and white apps the old Macs had would be perfect for an eInk screen. The retro scene in my country slaughtered the 68k Macs for their CPUs and FPUs.

The Amiga 500 has Hardware emulation for everything up to 286. I know of two expansions, a 286 one (with 286 CPU and glue FPGA) that clips to the 68k cpu socket, and a 8088 one (with 8088 CPU) that goes where the memory expansion goes. It also has 512 kb of RAM which can be used as memory expansion when the PC is not active. Also a clock.

Funnily enough, both manage to be faster than PCs from that time period because of the Amiga graphics chipset. You are limited to 32 colors though.

molex is the 4 pin that looks like this right?
And I wire it to yellow and black if the fan is 12V, right?
Thanks a lot for your help user

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F

How is the tube on these old AIOs holding up, by the way? I imagine phosphor degradation is less noticeable in B&W than in color.

Picked up an Amiga 1200. Shown here disassembled - I need to replace the floppy drive, clean the case, and disassemble the keyboard to replace a busted stem.

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And also fix this.. thing. The guy that owned this before apparently had to fix the LED board, and not only did he not install it right-side-up, he did the worst soldering job in the known multiverse.

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Yikes

PS: Any clever way to connect these hyperdrive devices into standard CF readers?

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My socket A Sempron machine has a seperate CPU power connector on the motherboard, so it's not entirely unheard of during that era. Besides, I'm pretty sure P4s used those ever since socket 478.

It has been 15 years. Maybe I just forgot.

Yeah that's molex. From quick websearch, it says yellow is 12V.

nice. but
step it up user

You also want to replace the SMD-Caps, they should all be leaking to some degree by now if the previous owner didn't replace them. Very common failure mode for A1200.

it's sacrilege i know, but it seems the junked CRT market here has dried up. Not gonna bother looking online, because fuck everything about shipping CRTs.

JUST

I had a 13 inch CRT shipped from ebay. I actually paid only 45 bucks total for it, so not too bad. The thing is its a TV not a monitor. Either way I got really lucky.

When I have more money though I wouldn't mind dropping a couple hundred on a nice monitor, but for now I have to wait.

You could get the fastest G4 (1.42Ghz) in the last PPC mac mini.
It works with Tiger and NetBSD supports it well. I run NetBSD on one and its rock solid. I had over a year uptime on 8.0_beta and only rebooted to put 8.0 on. It's my main file server and torrent machine with a bunch of 2TB external usb drives hanging off it with a usb hub.
I use the mini because of power consumption. I have a G5 DP Power mac and that fucker can use 800watts at full tilt.

My gramps old VIC20 has really been growing on me lately. It's actually the 1st computer I ever used. I have tons of 8bit machines and if I had to pick only 1 I would keep the VIC.

My latest quest is to port KERMIT to it. Kermit was implemented in basic on the Tandy M100 so it should be possible on an expanded VIC.
>columbia.edu/kermit/archive.html

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whoa. some of these are pretty cheap on ebay. Like 60 bucks, not bad. Only problem is most of them are untested, which means they were tested and don't work.

I also don't have any extra monitors, just my TV, so I guess I'd have to get a composite video cable, right?

and why the VIC-20 over, say the C64? is it just for personal reasons?

this looks pretty cool too.

Nostalgia and sentimental reasons i guess. There C64 is a better machine in every way since it evolved from the vic.

The things the vic20 has going for it is its a very simplistic machine so it isn't hard to understand every aspect of it. They even give you the schematic in the programmers manual. The community for it is small but dedicated and helpful. There has also been some neat hardware and homebrew software put out for it in the last few years. I just picked up a great multicart/ramcart for it.
>thefuturewas8bit.com/vic20-penultimate-plus.html
I also have a

It has composite out and they came with RF modulators so you could tune it in on an old TV. The resolution is so low (22col text lol) anything would do.

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these old linear regulators are really inefficient. I brought the heat down a lot in an old C64 just by replacing it with a 7805 switching-mode drop-in replacement. Just should get a high quality one, they produce virtually no heat at these power levels. Also takes off some load of the power supply

checked.

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Thanks ill look in to that. I never knew there was such a thing.
I also want to get a heatsink of the 6560 and I read about replacing a few of the other large chips like the 6502 and 6522 with modern equivalents (Rockwell?) that run cooler. The machine does get toasty.

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replying to a post from the old thread
AMD's first socket with 64-bit CPUs was socket 754 from what I'm aware, and as far as I know- there aren't any 64-bit CPUs for socket a. Given that Sempron is among the last CPUs released for the socket, and is actually newer than the original Athlon 64- the likelihood of there being 64 bit or SSE2 versions is slim.

How far is it possible to go with replacement chips like that?

Apple certainly pumped out a lot of shit case designs. The case for the 8100 will always stay with me as being a fucking nightmare. However there were some designs that got it right.

Performa 6200
Remove 4 screws at the back and the motherboard would pull out on a tray. There was even a built in handle to pull on. It was a nice idea but the design of the rest of the case still made changing drives difficult.

Power Mac 7200
Working on this was almost pleasant. The entire top part of the case would lift off if you held down the two buttons at the front. This gave full access to the motherboard and drives.

9600
Put it on it's side and press down on the top to open. No tools required

G3 and G4 towers
Pull up the lever on the side to open the side panel. It was like a hinged door.

Not that far in CBM machines since Commodore owned their own fab: MOS.
Lots of the MOS chips in the vic20 and c64 are irreplaceable since MOS died with Commodore.

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arent there any chink clones of it?

"It's Still in Production
Did you know that descendants of the 6502 are still in production? The Western Design Center, Inc, founded by Bill Mensch of Motorola and MOS fame, sells modern versions of the 6502 in both the classic 40 pin DIP package (appears to be pin-compatible with the original), as well as more modern surface mount packages. These are being used in all sorts of commercial devices, including external sound interfaces from companies like MOTU, medical devices and scanners, hand-held games and more. Bill Mensch is one of the holders of the 6502 patent, so who better to work on it today than him."
10rem.net/blog/2012/02/24/the-6502-processor-today

I hate ecelebs faggots for fucking up the prices on old hardware. Normalfags look up the model names on old computers because its easy and they see the prices on ebay and videos from shills fawning over them who are manipulating the market so they can sell shit they picked up cheap at a (((high markup))). Normalfags then ask ebay prices are for their nasty untested craigslist post. Same shit at the thrift stores but worse. This is enough to make me an emulatorfag! Sorry for ranty blogpost but this pisses me off. All Im left with is a 486 laptop.

good thing that i got my hardware before those fags were a thing

That is only temporary.
All this nostalgia buys are of a certain age group, that were young when the specific hardware was desirable. Now older they try to revive their youth, get the stuff they could not have when they were young. That is not limited to computer, but true for many different things.
That stuff is losing it’s value again, when the relevant generation dies out.

Very rarely does stuff keep its value over time, usually luxury products that were expensive from the beginning.

Me too, that is a function of not having enough space and no high value kit to begin with

Yes the 6502 is everywhere. I am talking about stuff like the SID, VIC-I and VIC-II.
You can get the PAL version of the VIC-1 (6561) from chink surplus because they where used in tons of things but the NTSC version (6560) is hard to find. There are counterfeits going for $25+ that are just random chips that where laser etched "MOS 6560-101" that don't work at all.. The CIA (6526) are also no longer made and go for $40-$50 2nd hand.
The main supply of real SID chips (6581) seems to be cannibalizing other C64s. There are counterfeits that kinda work
>kevtris.org/Projects/sid/remarked_sids.html
And there is an effort to recreate them with fpga's and the SwinSID project.

The C64 PLA chips have been reproduced successfully.

C64 uses a 6510 not a 6502 for the CPU. Those are still easy to find because they where made by a few companies but I don't know if a compatible DIP version is 'still in production'.

Do the people that bought that shit up because their favorite YouTube whore mentioned it sell it later at a loss or just trash it because they're normalcattle retards who couldn't figure out how to fix it after they inevitably break it?

That'd be silly. The point of getting one of those is running classic Mac programs that never got ported to other systems, like many games by Ambrosia and Pangea.

Are there any vintage laptops with some basic wireless networking capabilities? I want to get the oldest laptop I can that can run OpenBSD on it and use it for emails via mutt, lynx browsing, and other simple things. Found a Thinkpad 365x but I doubt I can get that thing on the internet.

ThinkPad T23 had a integrated WLAN option, or you could get a Pentium II era laptop with PC Card and use a 11B WLAN card.

For some reason I thought that the original c64 had the 6502 chip and that the c64c had the 6510 chip. But of course you are right and all c64 had 6510. But how can the 6502 be faster than the 6510? It can't be, right? This is what wikipedia says:
"MOS Technology 6510/8500
@ 1.023 MHz (NTSC version)
@ 0.985 MHz (PAL version)"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64
"MOS Technology 6502
@ 1.108404 MHz (PAL)
@ 1.02 MHz (NTSC)"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_VIC-20

The problem with old built in wireless gear is it's always just WEP. You will have to find a PC Card that supports WPA2.

The 6510 is a custom 6502 with added IO lines. Commodore was able to do cool shit and lower chip count because they owned MOS. Everyone else had to work with off the shelf parts or spend big money to have custom chips made. CBM just had to pick up the phone and call their fab. Thats why Commodore machines are full of IC's that where only used in those machines.

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All of the things that could have come from them having a fab, and they did nothing with it. It still makes me mad that Commodore could have flexed their muscles and utterly dominated the market (or at least drastically change it), and instead they just sat around with their thumbs stuck up their asses.

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I don't know what you mean by this. They did dominate under the Jack Tramiel years and they drastically changed the computing world. The c64 was the greatest selling computer of all time. Before that it was the vic20. All loaded with MOS chips. The Amiga was also loaded with custom chips made in house. And they had their competitors all coming to them to buy the 6502. Look at all the machines that where based off of that cpu. If you purchased an Apple2, Atari, Acorn, etc then CBM got paid. They also licensed the design to companies like Nintendo for the NES.

It is amazing though how quickly Irving Gould killed CBM. MOS actually emerged from the CBM implosion but the US EPA shut them down because a trichloroethylene tank leaked.

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Ethernet -> small wireless router or something maybe?

I remember some programs here in PAL land switching the C64 into NTSC mode to be faster. This would kill graphics output which was acceptable though. I don't remember if it make an actual difference or if the program authors just thought it would. I actually don't even remember if this actually was a hardware hack or something that could be done by software. (hey, it was a long time ago)

A small guide for the prospective Zig Forums C64 owner:

There was a worldwide shortage of 74xx TTL logic ICs in the 80s for a bit, MOS spun their own then to keep up with the high demand for Commodore machines. They love to break and are a very common defect in C64s. Thankfully, they're easily replaceable.

Commodore's CIAs are so failure prone in the C64 because they weren't protected in any way by users' shenanigans, static discharge at the joystick ports (by touching them with your fingers when fumbling in the dark for the power switch, for example) or some careless electronics engineering at the user port was enough to kill them. Same goes for the SID which also has direct lines to the joystick ports for paddles and an audio input at the video connector which not many people know about these days. My tip is to buy plastic caps to put on the ports if nothing is plugged in. The early SID also literally cooks itself to death sometimes with die temperatures exceeding 90 degrees Celsius, so I'd always heatsink it. There's a huge variance in these chips, even in how they sound.

What many people who buy replacement ICs don't know is that the Amigas' CIA (which break far less often as they're integrated differently into the computer) can be used in an C64 without problem, as they're basically the same chip. Commodore never changed that design until the end in any dramatic way. Doesn't work the other way around though.

The massive death of PLAs in early C64 models was almost certainly a manufacturing error, a failure to bond the ICs correctly, so they'd literally rot away internally. In early days they were replaced by EPROMs (as the PLA is basically a truth table) which pretty much worked in most cases but is not a good replacement and might or might not be bad for other ICs. It's better to use a modern PLA replacement these days.

Chips that come afterwards in how often they seemed to fail were the RAM (there always certain manufacturers like MT) the color RAM for the VIC II (which was later integrated into the PLA) and the VIC II itself. The RAM chips should still be easily available from electronics suppliers. The color RAM can be replaced with a static RAM part which uses less power and is less prone to go defective. The VIC should get a heatsink. Some models of the C64 came in a metal cage which metal pieces pressing down on these chips, making the metal cage act as heatsink. There were tons of revisions of the C64 mainboard.

I've rarely seen a 6510 fail and usually it was because of users' shenanigans. That's probably why nobody yet came up with a way to replace the 6510 with anything else. (except in the accelerator cards, obviously) There simply was no need.

In general the later, cost reduced C64C/II board is better as it is a lot less susceptible to failure. Commodore had aced the game of manufacturing C64s and it's ICs then, they're also much more highly integrated machines and the ICs were done in a different manufacturing process and don't get so hot. The VIC II in those late machines produces a clearer, less reddish picture, but has it's own bugs and particularities you can google. (You'll also never get a completely clear picture out of a C64, no matter how much stuff you replace, there's crosstalk directly on the die of the VIC) The later SID had a bug (actually no, it had a bug fixed the earlier SID had) which made sound samples produced through a trick a lot of earlier software used inaudible. It's reversible by a small hardware hack though.

Source: I used to repair these things for a living.

Usual Amiga failure points were Paula (Paula did the serial ports and floppy drives besides sound, also buttons at the gameports - lots of chance for that chip to get murdered) Denise (video) and the CIAs, defects were a lot rarer here though and usually operating mistakes by the user. We are all used to plug whenever and however with USB ports now, but with these old machines it's not a good idea. If you want to pull something out or plug something in, turn them off first. That's how you'll avoid most of the damage you can cause. Also static discharge. These old ICs are not well protected against it. You can rub a modern PC mainboard on the carpet and probably nothing will happen, this old stuff is a lot more susceptible though. These machines are not idiot proof, so use common sense. If I had to choose a computer for reliability I'd choose an Amiga 500 or 2000. (with their power supplies reworked) Well taken care off they'll survive you.

Tramiel is the key. More than once I've posted "OP is a Jew, but a cool Jew, like Jack Tramiel."
After he was kicked out, Commodore management was just a bunch of Gordon Gekkos just trying to strip-mine the place, and the company's survival lasted beyond the Amiga's launch was pretty-much just from the massive capitalization the company had.

But fuck the Amiga, though. $1000 for an ethernet card.. When the the free BSDs and Linux arrived, and otherwise IBM PCs/Windows could into TCP/IP for like 1/3rd the cost it would take for an Ami, 'everyone' knew they had to jump ship.

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It was always my impression those really aren't too effective, as the case makes for static air. When I find a small v.low noise fan, I'll be trying that instead.

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She looks yummy. I wanna rape her!

Does this mean that this was fixed for the c64c and no longer an issue:

Not sure but you could put electrical tape over unused ports if you're worried.

The world would be a very different place if Irving didn't out jew Jack.

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GTFO my thread fag

Well, my stuff came in the mail. I accidentally a SATA drive adapter instead of IDE, so now I have to wait until the 20th for that to come in. Back to waiting.

Rape and kill him!!

That girl in the photo is now 47 years old. Have fun.

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