Plan9

It must not be very good considering all its original creators are now macfags.

Just more UNIXy trash. Why bother?

track8.mixtape.moe/dbvmmr.txt

wow what a charming and poignant tale.

Trans Inquisition

Top kek.

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You do realize that chromosomes sometimes doesn't split during anaphase and some people end up with chromosome structures like 44+XXX/XXY/XYY instead of the usual 44+XY/XX? Did you ever take a biology class in your life?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis#Nondisjunction

babies are sometimes born without brains.
the idea that "humans have brains" is hateful.
lobotomize yourself today!

...

I was born with way worse defects than those, yet I don't go around claiming they are normal. I accept they are an abnormality and live with them.
You people, instead, want to warp reality into your fantasy.
Just kill yourself, tranny.

based mutant user

Those were awfully fast responses. Did it really take you less than half a minute to read what I just linked?

I've got an embarrassing birthmark, so it also really offends me that people still cling to the socially constructed idea that humans come in a few set patterns of skin tone.
It's particular bad in gaming. Every character creator denies my existence, and I'm never able to find representation in my character.
You're "white", you say? Please say cis-white, and respect the lived experiences of the trans-white, like me.
I don't care about the birthmark but removing it is nowhere near the same act as gouging out my own reproductive organs after doping up on sex hormones

Protip: I didn't. I only read what you wrote.

no, I didn't read it at all, because I've known about shit like that since gradeschool. Mutants come up in normal discussion.
Go find a group of transpeople and propose that non-mutants that have XY or XX chromosomes can't really be trans. You'll get lynched.

I'm not a tranny but rather just someone who happened to take a biology class sometime in his life. Genetic mutations can prove to be useful to organisms if the resulting genes prove to be equally useful or even superior from its counterparts (e.g. how caucasians evolved from negroids). Though sometimes these mutations might have terrible aftereffects to the organism and that usually results in natural selection.

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I'm not claiming to be smar but rather trying to point out that the ones who claim there can't be any other combinations than XX/XY are uneducated.

I really doubt that anyone makes it past puberty without learning this.

Plan 9 is worse than snake oil. Plan 9 was created to make distributed computing look like snake oil. Like UNIX compared to Multics, it arrived years after working distributed computing protocols and is still worse. AT&T's "research" is inferior to what was already on the market and will always be, no matter how much time and money is put into it. It's "research" that results in an inferior OS, increases costs on every single level, decreases productivity, replaces simple solutions with complex problems (sometimes so complex that nobody believes they can be solved), makes things worse for users, and prevents real researchers from doing what works because of "compatibility" with horrible interfaces. UNIX and Plan 9 are anti-research that shit on 60 years of computer science. That's why UNIX technology like Plan 9, BSD, and Linux in 2019 is worse than what Multics did in the 60s. Plan 9 uses "tar" to copy directory hierarchies not for any "philosophical" reasons, but because the version of UNIX it was based on didn't have "cp -r" and they were not capable of adding it. It doesn't have dynamic linking because they weren't smart enough to copy Multics or another mainframe system that does it properly. It still has the same bc calculator and all that other UNIX bullshit. What sucks is when Plan 9 weenies point to something that UNIX does wrong and blame the entire thing itself instead of the broken UNIX implementation.

Yesterday Rob Pike from Bell Labs gave a talk on the latest and greatest successor to unix, called Plan 9. Basically he described ITS's mechanism for using file channels to control resources as if it were the greatest new idea since the wheel.Amazing, wasn't it? They've even reinvented the JOB device.In another couple of years I expect they will discover theneed for PCLSRing (there were already hints of this in histalk yesterday).I suppose we could try explaining this to them now, butthey'll only look at us cross-eyed and sputter somethingabout how complex and inelegant that would be. And thenwe'd really lose it when they come back and tell us how theyinvented this really simple and elegant new thing...

I wouldn't know, being on a website with majority of its userbase that thinks of non-binary genders as nothing more than mental illnesses.

Even these people with extra chromosomes happen to be either men or women inb4 "what about le hermaphrodites check m8 shitlords xdddddddd". We don't call them "subnorgender".

nice strawman

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the opposite of 'old ideas' isn't 'new ideas', but 'now ideas'--because you won't know, until now ideas because old ideas, whether or not they'll stand the test of time or be revealed as poison. That's what all the lobotomy references were about. Lobomies were 'now idea' that was exposed as a horrifying act of destruction of the human body, much like SRS, and they never lived long enough to become an old-fashioned idea that some bumpkin might 'cling to'.

(cont.)
I'm not saying, "wait a hundred before you jump on this internet fad", but
USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN
instead of just slurping down any fad that catches any popularity. They're all going to be cool and trendy. Their adherents will all be the kind of open-minded tolerant people that will only ban people for old-fashioned hate beliefs like their particular trend being bullshit. If you let social cues do your thinking like this you're just going to die in a mass suicide after drinking the kool-aid, user.

>makes a bunch of vague statements and bitches about tar because muh tape drives nevermind that tape drives are still widely used and muh dynamic linking
I always find it funny how him and the boomers in his quotes often act like Plan 9 is even worse than Unix but have fuckall to complain about.

It's Unix made by arrogant morons

I like Plan9 and it's main fork 9front, as well as cat-v and Uriel. But since Uriel died, the new runner of the place has done a lot of stupid things, including ban people for discussing CoCs, be proud for trannyism, and put an anti-Nazi logo on their sites that hyperlinks to "Nazipunks Fuck Off" by The Dead Kennedies. Good software, previously good community, bad management.

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The mbox containing the Tranny-bait shit. 0x0.st/z-oM.mbox

based

I unironically agree with every single post you make, I'm afraid you might be me from a parallel universe.

Who said anything about tape drives?

Ok, I decided to take your pill. Where can I learn more about this shit?

lurk moar

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Unironically this, I don't even get what their goal is.
Clearly it isn't making a good OS, otherwise they wouldn't be choking on Bell Labs's cock.
It's not even a social cause such as getting rid of proprietary software, like GNU does.
It honestly all just seems a pointless exercise in futility to feel elitist and superior over some other random faggots on the internet. Pathetic.

iOS and macOS were made from FreeBSD's source code. So using Uinx's source code has meaning. It is not only a rebranding. It is a recreation!

Seriously, the way OS development has been nothing but cloning a 70s OS is truly heartbreaking.
No one seems capable of even conceiving something different. We can't keep milking Eunuchs forever.

Rubbish license, and backwards compatible in all the worst places.
It would be an OK choice if it came on workstation computers.

Your whole post is a giant CITATION NEEDED (bonus ancient quotes), but I'll focus on a single point:
tar being used for copying directories through the command dircp is to avoid code duplication. Why re-implement code for recursive directory descent over and over again with each implementation being subject of bugs? Better use what you already have.
dircp code is like this:
#!/bin/rcswitch ($#*) { case 2 @{ cd $1 && tar c . } | @{ cd $2 && tar x } case * echo usage: dircp from to >[1=2]}

What’s the point?

A newly developed OS lacks softwares, drivers, and games. So nobody wants to use it. Therefore no one wanna develop it!

9front has some Nintendo emulators and a Doom source port. I think there's some other little games too.

UNIX perfectly summarized

its so you could only use it for work(with work i mean programming since a text editor is probably the only thing it has). the people here think that computers should not be fun so you dont need browsers or games.

is this a good place to leave this?

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found the UNIX weenie

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See? Two can play this game.
Unix is not fit to work on the current environment, it was fine by the 70's. Then we got network, raster displays, personal computers instead of shared Mainframes.
Unix was dragged along by pilling stuff that did not belong to it. X11, Sockets, symbolic links.
Plan 9 (and Inferno for that matter) is a solution to the clusterfuck that current Unix is.
9front is there, bringing up new stuff little by little. It actually EXISTS and can run in modern machines. The same can't be said about ITS, Multics and... Lisp machines.

all modern systems are unix like tho. idk if anyone really uses or maintains real unix anymore

False history.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto

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Seriously, the way actual history conflicts with the commonly perceived beliefs about computing history is frightening.
I swear there has to be some massive revisionism campaign going on here. It's not fun at all.

Amen to that.

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By Unix its understood all Unix-like systems. Of course nobody uses the original Unix anymore, the closest one is the HP-UX and it is barely supported.

As in the last post, this goes along with ITS, Multics and Lisp Machines.
Even if you bring back these marvelous machines, would they be used in the best way possible?
Wouldn't they be used to run javascript frameworks or dynamic HTML page servers and some developers may ask for things they're used to instead of learning how to use a new system?
Some can dream about Plan 9, some with Lisp Machines, but we're all surrounded by shit.

illumos is a thing.

To give you an interesting benchmark—on roughly the same system, roughly optimized the same way, a benchmark from 1979 at Xerox PARC runs only 50 times faster today. Moore’s law has given us somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 times improvement in that time. So there’s approximately a factor of 1,000 in efficiency that has been lost by bad CPU architectures.
The myth that it doesn’t matter what your processor architecture is—that Moore’s law will take care of you—is totally false. I hope Lispfriend can expound more on this subject.

Faggots should be banned for that.

Yeah. Moore's Law is a misnomer. It was a design strategy. It wasn't any "law" at all except the intended goal at Intel.

Dripfeeding and maximum returns. That's all there is to it.
Progress is never made at a certain measurable speed.

It's all about balance. You couldn't except them to go from micrometers to nanometers instantly. It was a dependable schedule to keep production within budget and on-time. Intel has bigger problems now because they never planned any contingency for the physical limitations of Moore's Law.

hotwheels, is that u?

So one shitty work station compared to the whole microcomputer line up like the C64 and PC? Nice try, kike.

This is an interesting point.

AT&T is still very much alive today. What happened is that AT&T was split from its long distance provider service, AT&T, to regional provider services, Bells.

In the course of 30 years, anti-trust and monopoly laws have changed so drastically that AT&T now owns those regional providers again, but what is really poignant is that AT&T no longer has Bell Labs.

AT&T is pretty much shit at this point and only serves as a means to collect data on consumers through telephones, mobile phones, Internet, and television.

Mainframes distinguish between sequential and direct access devices. UNIX forces everything to simulate a tape. That's one of the reasons computers are so slow even though they are thousands of times faster and have hundreds of thousands of times the memory of 60s mainframes.

What sucks is that it's not even a good 70s OS.

If that's what they really wanted to do, they would make a library function or a command like "find" that does that instead of a hack using tar. Why choose "tar" as the command to bake in that functionality? How does using tar help inspect files or delete files? It doesn't. That's a bullshit excuse made up after the fact. Also remember that Plan 9 is supposedly a successor to UNIX made with the money AT&T made from UNIX. Even if AT&T couldn't afford to develop a good OS before (which is bullshit), they should have been able to in 1991.

A 1991 OS is not newly developed except in the minds of UNIX weenies. That's the Windows 3.x era.

UNIX was less fine in the 70s because it was made for multi-user computing but sucked at it. UNIX was a "multi-user OS" that sucked so much that it was used for single-user workstations. Multics was designed so people all over the world can log in and use the computer and that it would be secure and that parts can be replaced as they fail without shutting down the system. UNIX replaced real error handling with hollering "Hey, reboot it." to some guy in another room.

I would say more of that is due to bad software than bad hardware.

Subject: Tar And Feathers Vs. Feathers And Tar: Which Works Better?We long ago resigned ourselves to using Unix, and with itwe've resigned ourselves to its odd syntactic idioms.We've all long ago resigned ourselves to using TAR to copyfiles. It no longer seems a travesty, only a wart.In the midst of all this resignation, only unix-haterscauses us to stop and wonder, where we would otherwisemerely give up and move on.I'm pausing to share my wonder with you at this gray hair ona wart on a mole. (Please, no informative replies.)% cd /adoc/ruble/src/xloadimage-3.01% (cd /project/pagemill/utils/xloadimage-3.01/; tar cf - . ) | tar xBpf -tar: directory checksum error (0 != 4451)% cd /project/pagemill/utils/xloadimage-3.01/ % tar cf - . | (cd /adoc/ruble/src/xloadimage-3.01 ; tar xBpf - )%

Instead we have faggots like who wants other people to clone an OS from the 60s, because he can't even write a text editor in his special-snoflake language(s).

That makes sense.

based

Yeah, better to clone the OS from the 70s.

Dude, like clone an OS from the 90's!

EPIC LULZ

On the contrary: retarded devs avoiding sequential memory access and telling everyone to buy SSDs instead of optimizing their shit are a big part of why programs launch and run so slowly.
There's a really simple answer to that, but I won't spoonfeed you. RTFM.
1991 is fairly new in OSdev terms, even if the user you're responding to is an idiot.
If Unix was as terrible and unusable a multi-user OS as you claim, why the fuck would someone want to use it as a workstation OS in place of a non-Unix workstation? You've somehow painted Unix as both the most terrible, user-unfriendly operating system to appear on planet Earth and somehow the one OS every corporation, their mother, and their sysadmins (all weenies outside an enlightened few) wanted despite being worse than every alternative. Even the Multicians website and guys like Corby give Unix and its creators far more credit than you dare.

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If you think a tape is the only data structure that can be sequentially read, you must be the retard.
Because it sucks less than all the other current operating systems out there. Just because something sucks the least, does not make it good.

Why don't you make your own OS then?

Intel provides all the resources you need to design motherboards, to write BIOS, to boot the CPU, etc. All of those resources are free as in freedom to read and implement without license and free as in price. You can even get an old computer from the mid-00's for something cheap to experiment with.

If you don't want to work with x86. There are choices still for ARM, POWER, and other architectures.

Before you reeee about
I am not talking modern. I am talking about implementing all the bullshit that you think makes a good OS. Just do that. It shouldn't be too difficult. You say it's been done before, so why not use those resources to bootstrap your project?

I run OpenBSD and code in C. I can't figure out how to install Plan 9 on bare metal. I think everyone who "uses" it is just running it in a VM, because nobody ever gives me a straight answer on how to actually install it.

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I don't have enough time to dedicate to doing so.

But you have enough time to come into this board day-in and day-out to shill.
How incredible.

I don't think that. Hard drives are also best at reading sequential data unless you're trying to jump around inside a huge file.

The UNIX file system adds extra levels of indirection and block pointers. Also, stupid bullshit like XML makes things slow even if it is sequential on the disk.

The simple answer is that it was considered a bug at the time.

man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/cp

There is the same number of years from 1963 to 1991 that there is from 1991 to 2019. Imagine someone in 1991 saying 1963 is fairly new in OSdev terms, although I guess that's true since Multics is still more advanced than UNIX.

They didn't want to use it. Most of the time they were forced to use it because "decision makers" replaced their existing systems with UNIX because they bought into all the bullshit. This happened in businesses and universities.

The closest thing to anyone wanting it was clueless "decision makers" mandating POSIX because they want a "standard" OS, even though the purpose of POSIX was to improve compatibility between versions of UNIX.

Mr. A is being hurt by a Unix bug, a bug accidentallyintroduced into the file system code when Unix was firstwritten.You see, a file is internally described by an inode entry,which contains 13 pointers to the disk blocks thatconstitute the file. The first 10 of these pointers behavenormally, but a strange mutation occured in some code leftsitting overnight on a disk in a room where the airconditioning had failed. As a result of this mutation, theeleventh pointer came to point, not to a block of the file,but to a block containing a whole bunch more (like 256)pointers. Later on, replication of the erroneous codefragment due to gamma ray damage made things even worse:Now, the twelfth pointer points to a block of pointers toblocks of pointers, and the thirteen to a pointer to blocksof pointers to blocks of pointers to blocks of pointers (orsomething like that).A result of this bug was the cancerous growth in Unix filesizes. Remember that a cancer is uncontrolled growth, inthe wrong place at the wrong time. In the intended scheme,no file could be more than 13 blocks long, and most of Unixwas designed around that assumption. The mutationsintroduced the potential for growth way beyond this designparameter. Needless to say, nothing has worked quite rightsince. The X window system is probably the worst of exampleof metastasized Unix code. I think it's safe to say that nopiece of X would have managed to survive on a Unix systemwith only the original 13 block pointers.

I must admit I don't know much about filesystems, so I can't say much here.
Is there a single person on this board who actually likes XML?
That's the Unix first edition cp, faggot. It predates Plan 9 and its cp by over 20 years and is almost certainly written in a different C dialect Plan 9's cp and tar may use Alef, haven't checked.
Plan 9's manpages describe its Tar with: "Tar saves and restores file trees. It is most often used to transport a tree of files from one system to another." If you squint a little, cp -r is doing the same shit so instead of either reimplementing similar code or making a library/command for that one thing they made a tiny rc script. This is kind autistic, but eh. It works.
Shit, I didn't realize the 90s were that long ago. It's "fairly new" thanks to the lack of actual progress in OS design since then. Most so-called progress these days is just polish or fags reinventing the wheel.
So far the only evidence I've seen for this is a single book, a newsgroup, and some salty mailing list quotes.

Pretty much all of his "wisdom" comes from a compilation of salty posts from an ancient mailing list: homes.cs.washington.edu/~weise/unix-haters.html

based

Pretty much all of your "wisdom" comes from a compilation of salty posts from a modern message board: 8ch.net/

I don't think ridiculing the supposed source of information is a valid retort.

No
Actually both did not completely conquer such nations because these peaceful and humble people had God behind their backs and cared for the good which is the most basic logic. Care is stronger than your bullets and if you don't understand this you will never pass the first phase. It only shows how much you do not care existence by denying it from others, and also slowly destroying the planet by farming weapons while you import food from the Trilateral Commission and then threaten those who try to exit. Those who just try to pillage for their own evil-good don't know the risks it will perpetuate in future and are dumb. Not to mention the suffering from karma and being immortally trapped in this phase. Consider this a WARning. And not only did you stop at that, your jew magazines had been naming the big bad wolf for decades though they just want you to fuck off outside their walls or borders for they can self-sustain and love GOD. Lol, enjoy your evil unholy cultist leaders.
Niggers being imported to America was your mistake. Imagine a different environment for a man suited in harsh environments. Slaves amirite? Call it karma.
True redpill isn't about power to change, destroy, take, or deny with wits. It is the vulnerability to cherish that which is weak without exploiting its interests and losing negative desires for this phase is the only way to ascension which you failed stay pawn, toy soldier :^).

Pretty much all of your "wisdom" comes from a compilation of faggy posts from a modern message board: reddit.com

Everyone likely secretly runs it in a VM, even. And especially, cat-v LARPers.

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was meant for