UNIX Hater: I am Calling You Out

Maybe this is because some ideas are only good on paper? In the ideal world we wouldn't need to worry about being spied on online, didn't need to fill in CAPTCHAs and such because no one would try to exploit unprotected web forms and spam their stuff everywhere. Child pornography wouldn't be a thing because it's morally wrong so no one would produce it. Law enforcement wouldn't exist because there wouldn't be any crime.

Ideal scenarios however often doesn't intersect much with reality, hence why we call them ideal. It's nice to dream about how things could be, but in the end, they are destined to remain as dreams.

now kiss

Well, where is your GUI text editor, cniles? Oh that's right. You're too busy LARPing.

What if the child consents, tho?

kill yourself

Why don't you answer his question, tho?

Not the Lisper but…

He never really derailed them. If it's a thread about Plan 9, he shits on Plan 9 for being UNIX, if it's a thread about another language that copies C, then he shits on it for being like C. It's all consistently on topic.

According to both your threads, gay poster, and Lisper's words, without specialized hardware LISP won't produce the promised results, therefore you're just asking for impossible to begin with. On top of that, all your threads got derailed into incomprehensible mess where you and other people were arguing about rules of what's allowed and now allowed when writing an editor. Asking for a binary when pretty much no modern LISP dialect compiles into binary (not bytecode), shifting the goalposts when someone was using standard libraries. And I still don't get why Emacs doesn't count as a LISP editor when ~60% of its source code is Emacs Lisp but whatever, I'll assume you wanted an entirely new editor. Here's a challenge for you though: go write a text editor in Python (or some other interpreted shit) without using its standard library while producing a portable binary.

It's better to produce nothing rather than producing shit that will poison our civilization for ages to come, if you wanna use that logic.

Shit comparison: there's a difference between a theory and a hypothesis. You can prove that something is good on paper without relying on subjective metrics. Besides, people claim that LISP is good because it existed.

At least the LISP fag brings something new to the table—though the quotes are getting dull—unlike most of people here who continuing to hold onto the technology from 50 years ago because "pipes are magic".

yeah, sorry dude you're retarded and gay

Having sex with a child is good if the child consents it. And incests are always justice.

Not really. He recently popped into the Ada thread with a post where only a single line mentioned Ada and everything else was an off-topic rant about how much he hated C and Unix.

based

Yes really. That Ada thread you are talking about was about Nvidia replacing some C stuff with Ada.

Deep down everyone knows the Multics nigger is 100% right.
They are simply too afraid to admit the OS and programming language they have wasted so many years whoreshipping for no rational reason are shit.

this
if you are 100% satisfied with whichever software you are using, regardless of unix-based or whatever, then you're a fucking delusional retard.
everything can always be improved.

Quite the thread.

I'm glad the Lispies have fully embraced arguing that it's better to do nothing successfully, a truly unix credo, rather than fail at doing something.

The LISPfags have provided a text editor though. Now the only question is if the Cniles on here can also write one?

No. His post in the Ada thread was off-topic. He doesn't define what he thinks about Ada are merits for switching. He only used that thread as a means to attack anyone who uses C and then to post his opinion. A shitpost is still a shitpost.

That's plainly a cop out. What consumer has access to NVIDIA firmware? They won't notice any difference. They don't develop with it or for it. The only thing that changes for anyone are the developers at NVIDIA who now have to learn Ada in order to keep their jobs.

Nobody's saying UNIX/POSIX doesn't have braindamage, but Lisp good goyim in their ivory tower are even worse.

Stop with this forced meme, please. This is embarassing to read.

This isn't really true at all considering the existence of insane groups like cat-v, which bow down to everything that came out of Bell Labs.
Now, that's an extreme example, sure, but many such people do exist, to a varying degree.

The Cnile LARPer is triggered

tl;dr faggot.
The based UNIX hater is based. Your kvetching achieves nothing.

Many Unixes are open source so they are very good!

Sure. Thanks for the bump.

Literally only illumos is an open source "real" UNIX

"Real Unix" is not very important. What's more important is whether it is open source.

A majority of the complaints found in his blockquotes seem to have to do with specific quirks that existed on the old UNIX systems used at the time of writing, and more than likely do not apply to modern implementations.
However, some of these quotes don't make sense even within the context of the book's publication date of 1994.
The Network Time Protocol, otherwise known as NTP, has existed in some form since at least 1985: 9 years before the book. In fact, NTPv3 was out 2 years before publication, so it had already had multiple revisions.
SQL has existed since 1974: 20 years before the book, and the first commercially available RDBMS, Oracle, was released in 1979. Judging from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_relational_database_management_systems there have been 25+, maybe even 30+ relational database programs that existed prior to the publishing of the Unix Haters Handbook.
you mean like ext2 (1 year before publishing), ext3, and ext4?
To be a bit more serious though, yes it is true that Unix and Unix-like operating systems don't have separate version numbers for the filesystems, preferring to tie them to kernel versions. Why is this a problem again? Because it's not how Multics or whatever used to do it? This isn't even a monolithic vs. microkernel argument, as even the microkernel OSes don't seem to bother putting version numbers for filesystems. And why should they?

I'm not the UNIX Hater, though I do also hate UNIX. I've seen this precise reply to this before.

UNIX file systems lack version numbers (versioning), which means that when you modify a file you don't have access to the previous version, along with all prior versions. That is, the UNIX file system makes no attempt to version any files whatsoever. This is something that operating systems, such as VMS, did decades ago, on much weaker hardware, on much smaller disks, yet you'll usually see efficiency or size as an argument against this.

So, what is meant by that is when I modify a file and, say, make a mistake, I can go and undo the mistake if I have a versioning file system, but under UNIX you don't have this and likely never will. Personally, I'm disgusted that the closest thing UNIX has to file versioning is an ugly, manual, explicit version of it called git, along with the other RCSes; this should be done for me.

Now you know. A related complaint is rm is forever, so don't make a mistake, because you may not be able to get your files back. Even Windows has a recycle bin that's integrated with the operating system. I tried using Gnome's garbage bin, but something broke and it doesn't work and it's not as if the OS has any concept of it anyway, so only Gnome software would use it even if it did work.

and I'll call out the problems and UNIX fanboys in other threads too

I told you ZMACS existed the day you made the thread. Then you moved the goal posts since you personally couldn't run it since you couldn't afford it.

There was more that one workstation and even more that 1 company working on making LISP machines.

Most of the quotes aren't even from the book.

If I wanted to erase a file because I don't want it around any more, then the file should be erased. If I don't want a file in a specific location, I should move the file. If I don't want to see the file, then I should hide the file.

.>>1035873
That's exactly what you are doing by derailing threads. You are only posting because you don't personally like UNIX and C. That's why you derail threads.

It's not just about what you want right now. Wait if your system needs that file? For example rm will happily delete the kernel with no complaints, provided it has permission to. You can easily use rm to break your system. Also even if you want it gone now, what if you wanted it back the next day? Just type it all up again?

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...

You sure showed him!
BASED

yo fellow channers i
JUST
learned that we have (((Text formating!!!11~11@!)))
THIS IS VERY JEWISH and probably caused by
THE BOTNET
#include haxx0r code void main() {found botnet }

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i don't need to solve captchas

Honestly, I consider Plan9 a way better base than UNIX. UNIX and POSIX braindamage came from vendor accomodation: they just standardized a pretty immature OS without thinking we'd be stuck with it for so long. Stuff like function names being limited to 7 characters because of early ld's limitation is the kind of stuff we got.

What I think is:

Wow. Plan9 weenies are even more retarded than UNIX weenies. At least UNIX weenies created something that works.

twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1098637255558746112
John Carmack is also a UNIX hater. Fucking BASED.

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It'd be easy to write a hack with inotify, git and flock to provide this.

Found the UNIX nigger. I'm sick of your hacks that then become standard. How about you do something right for once?

There's NILFS in tree and TUX3 out of tree.

How about you start writing something to begin with? Oh wait, if it's not perfect from the start then it is of no value :^)

No one is going to discuss how the UNIX hater "doesn't have time" to write an OS, yet has the time to shitpost on Zig Forums?

What has UNIX hater made that establishes him as some authority to go around shitting in threads?

Just say you hate macOS like a normal shrill you idiot.

Not everybody's going to agree with you, but we can understand why.

Mostly the part about it being "Closed" in every known aspect...

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>>>/out/ >>>/out/ >>>/out/ >>>/out/ >>>/out/

Because it likely wasn't even him, and even if it were, it wouldn't make his criticisms any less valid.
Finish middle school before posting here.

> rm /bootrm: cannot remove '/boot': Is a directory> rm -r /bootrm: descend into write-protected directory '/boot'?> rm -rf /bootrm: cannot remove '/boot': Permission denied
What a rush. I can feel the power.

Why?

Because the OP of that thread is a troll. Everyone knows that a simple text editor isn't most advanced program ever created.

These anons are right.

pls no.

also, fix your formatting. stop

being reddit nigger.

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Should I learn Lisp if I hate Jews?

You UNIX niggers really are mentally ill.

What have LARPers made that establishes them as some authority to go around shitting in threads?

based

I am not implying that at all. What I am implying is that UNIX hater user can take his time shitposting and apply that instead to make an OS. Either user has the skills to back up his claims, or he doesn't. Not very difficult to understand.

Why don't you get to your point directly instead of being a passive aggressive bitch.

TempleOS has unironically a more solid overall design than Unix.

Thanks for your opinion.

yes. if something is made by a jew, it doesn't automatically mean that it's a trap for the stupid goyim. if the jew in the question is some ultra orthodox crackhead, then ofc you should proceed with caution and question everything.

You should learn Lisp especially if you hate Jews.
Learn from your enemy and beat him at his own game.

Almost all open source OSes are good because they are open source.

Go grab a copy of The Little Schemer and The Seasoned Schemer. You might be also interested in these ==> github.com/norvig/paip-lisp and mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/index.html

B-But muh millions of eye paris! (but I prefer to use Free/Open source software whenever it's feasible)

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based

lmao

Scheme is one of the simplest programming languages that's also useful. Once you know a lisp, it's easy to learn another. If you insist on learning Common lisp first, go take a look at the github link in

If you ever write a real program in Scheme, you'll quickly find yourself adhoc reimplementing half of the "bloat" in Common Lisp.

Agree, I took the multicsnigger's LISP-pill, but if he really rejects to dedicate his time to program the OS he (and now I) wants instead of wasting all the time shitposting and derailing every thread, then he's nothing but a LARPer who's all words and no actions.
Hell, he doesn't even have to start all of it from scratch, there's Mezzano which is being developed almost by one person only (github.com/froggey/Mezzano) and he may need some help from other LISP autists.

Also, it seems that LISP-user's dreamed OS would only have all of its promised features with specialized hardware (at least according to ), but how different is actually that hardware to what we currently have? And are there companies in currentyear+4 that produce it? And if not, how hard would it be to manufacture it and get something with comparable power to, let's say, a regular PC from the early 2000's?

That would be a matter of getting an FPGA. If he wanted to shop out the HDL to some fab, he could get the silicon actually made as well.

It's an obvious constructive use of one's time, so I don't see how it's a bad suggestion. The only thing that I can surmise is that he (it could even be she for all I know) gets more thrill disrupting discussion than contributing worthwhile content.

weenie
e
e
n
i
e

Few have the aility.

UNix is too complicated normal people need windows 10.

Don't quote me (>>1035787) on hardware support, I only heard it from the LISPer himself. Stuff like hardware garbage collector, you know. Hardware support pretty much solves any software problem, so it'd make sense. Oh, your processor is too slow at drawing graphics? Just add another one dedicated to that. Sound? Get a sound card. Go to any thread about AV1 and you'll see that to every complaint about the speed there are tons of responses saying "Just wait for the hardware support." Same goes for cryptography. It's a magic pill that solves all the problems, so I'm willing to bet that what originally made LISP so great was hardware that catered to it. After all, according to some source, part of C's performance is the fact that x86 is catering to C at this point.

It's even more comical when you know how bloated a performant and portable (especially portable) GC is. But this faggot doesn't care about portability, because only his magical hardware allows his kiked language to perform.

Who cares about portability if you (supposedly) have just made a perfect computer that every other computer should be modeled after?

So, just like C?

unbased

Peak Zig Forums.

...

Somebody is bitching about what we have today and refuses to do anything about bring forth their own utopia of Lisp. That's just sour grapes. If Lisp was so wonderful and powerful, it should take a fraction of the time it takes to write an OS in C. Today we don't see anything like that which is more advanced than a toy proof of concept.

Have you considered that writing a good OS may be a function of more than just the programming language, such as the hardware? You know, like the lispfag keeps saying. HW dev is expensive as all fuck unless you want to marry an FPGA vendor and go down with him.

Serious question, are the people complaining about the Multics nigger supposedly "not having time to make his OS" underage or simply retarded?
Even if you take no action to make something better than X, this makes criticisms of X no less valid.
He mentions Multics and Lisp Machines, however, to prove that it *is* conceptually possible to do better.
People like to ignore that the reason Unix derivatives are bearable nowadays and "run faster xDDD" is because of decades of manpower from thousands of people and effort put into them, not to mention decades of hardware development catered towards certain programming styles.
Demanding so much from a single person in order to "lmao prove he's not LARPing" is just silly.

It's a common logical fallacy. Among the shit like “but where's the alternative” and “the right tool for the right job”.

Stop LARPing, faggot.
sage negated btw

based

I'm complaining about the fact that he seems to do nothing productive other than bitch about UNIX. I'm not talking about the validity of his words, which I pretty much agree with. I'm telling him to actually start projects or help others already in place that could bring an OS modeled after the LISP machines, because if he dosen't actually write anything then it (the OS) is never going to be made, he can't expect others to do it for him.
Also, I'm not saying he must write it all by himself, I adviced on that he could help a guy who's already started writing a LISP-OS (and he's actually writing it almost all by himself), be it helping him with the file-system, drivers, or just polishing the code, all amout of help is well received.

Protip: You're a LARPer

If you want less *nix so other OSs end up with more users/market share and you can't develop your own, why not put your money where your mouth is and donate to some project?
There's Haiku, Redox, ReactOS, Genode... Some of then have POSIX compatibility but they aren't Unix.

Reminder that "UNIX" is dead and Lispfag is outdated and BTFO.

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Top LARP!

fuck off

The biggest problem with the Multics/Lispfag is that his ideal operating system, if made exactly the way he wanted, would probably require everyone either throw out their existing hardware or limit themselves to x86 without x86_64 support. This would be both horribly expensive and awful for the environment, and even people would still work on operating systems for hardware predating his meme dream machine.

A sage isn't a downvote, retard.

even then*

good

Let me explain to you what sage does, newfriend. It doesn't bump the thread.
Now what does sage negating do? I'll leave that as an exercise to you.
anti-saged btw

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That old hardware can be fixed, but it requires designing a custom motherboard. I am not quite certain what the performance hit would be like.