As leftists, how should we deal with groups like Mormons and Scientologists?
As leftists, how should we deal with groups like Mormons and Scientologists?
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Gee, I thought it was 'idealism' to say that beliefs matter.
Mainline scientologist are a dangerous organization and should be faced as such.
But beside that a program to phase out religion will be necessary
Organized religion is fine only as long as it doesn't exploit people. Cults like scientology bleed people dry to fund the extravagances of their inner circle.
False beliefs and bad epistemology are poison in any case
You could just let them deal with their religion. Those things are dying out. One of my best friends is a "Mormon", and yet he drinks and fucks bitches. You catch more flies with honey, famalam.
Nice try, O'brien
okay cool I'm not the only one who picked up on the thoughtcrime vibe
Tbh of those two only scientologists are retarded, let people believe in whatever (real) faith they want, but get that scientology meme shit out of here.
I'm okay with religion so long as you're a leftist. If you consider yourself a devout religious person yet agree with fascism, you are a hypocrate.
What if your religion is neoliberalism?
I'm not religious, I have pretty much the same stance as you. I'm not atheist though.
The genesis of Mormonism and the genesis of Islam is surprisingly identical.
Except Mohammed didn't get funky glasses which helped him decipher the word of god, because glasses were an unknown concept back then.
And going by the polygamy angle you can't get rid of the feeling that both were horndogs, who just wanted to fuck as many females as legally.
Kill all religious people. Religion has no place on our socialist utopia or the entire left wing, for that matter.
Once the revolution breaks out, religious people will be the first to go.
Reminds me of Anglicanism
Fuck, there may be an actual pattern here.
They are very similar. It's interesting to go back and look at what 19th century Protestant Christians in America thought of the Mormons, with Joseph Smith being called "the modern Mahomet [Muhammad]."
PicturedL Orson Pratt, one of the original members of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.
The Book of Mormon is a slog but one thing that stood out to me was how warlike it is. It's like reading Warhammer fan-fiction with lots of battles, sieges and massacres. If I were to find God I might go Mormon tbh
The present-day LDS church is a far-cry from Zion but Joseph Smith was all about collectivism. "If you are not equal in earthly things you cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things.”
Mormons are just heretics doing the right things with the wrong beliefs
Scientologists are wrong about most things except psychology. they're completely right about it
the issue is what to do with atheists…
Cult causing problems?
we fight it just as we fight any other form of opression.
You mean psychiatry.
same difference as far as I'm concerned. its quackery.
If you think it's morally acceptable to take things on faith, you can't complain about any of the bad shit the religious people because of things the believe on faith.
likewise if you're an atheist, being irreligious doesn't automatically make you impervious to criticism.
Before figuring out an answer to this question it's necessary to become familiar with these groups. I'd advise talking to ex-mormons and people who've blown whistles about scientology because they're both pretty incredibly fucked up.
Well duh, but nobody suggests that. The idea that "all religions just teach peace and love" is a thing even many smart irreligious people try to pretend to believe.
Mormons are very much mostly good people and could actually make good socialists. Many of them actually go out and do charity regularily.
The mormon church however is different. Leadership has historically been very against social programs (see Reuben J Clark and his staunch opposition to programs like the new deal and Ezra Taft Benson's tirades about the dangers of socialism, feminism etc. Not letting blacks have the priesthood until 1978).
To be in good standing members also have to pay 10% of their income, they like to think this money is being spent charitably but this mostly goes to LDS inc's business ventures, theres something like 80 billion dollars of worth there.
I think the organization as a whole still does more harm than good and absolutely serves as a barrier for people achieving class consciousness.
organized religion is fundamentally exploitative because any organization whose basis is in peddling sky spooks and ideas detached from material reality in the end of the day are nothing more than the self-perpetuation of an organization of clergy who claim to have a monopoly on spiritual truth.
i actually might go further and say all religion is organized religion. even the arguments that it promotes healthy social cohesion has its basis in emotional manipulation and social pressure of its constituents on each other. of course you can say most values and practices in society, not just religious, are created and enforced on such an irrational basis but religion is particularly insidious because claims to moral and spiritual authority whether vested in clergymen or in parents (religions seems to universally elevate obedience parental authority as equal religious authority in itself) are open to abuse and submission. What do others think?
The same way with all the other religions.
Tbh socialists need to eradicate the Muslims.
Eradicating people who hold an idea makes no sense. Eradicating an idea makes perfect sense.
It would if one were able to eradicate a thing that already has no existence.
Muslim girls are qt though
Abstractions don't exist, sure. But maybe 'eradication' doesn't have to be interpreted as regarding literal existence; that is if a belief stops being held, it gets eradicated.
They'll be just as qt if they stop believing in magic
Read Dr. Bones
that kid is so fucking cringe inducing
Telling socialists to arm themselves and prepare for mass repression is significantly less cringe inducing than the farcical internet slapfights most of the left partakes in as their sole praxis. Based graveyard man does nothing wrong.
I read one thing he wrote about the beauty of armed conflict and immediately decided he was a putz.
He also wrote something about how decentralized armed groups are effective and don't need political organization because U.S. Army COIN manuals consider them a threat – despite the fact that the Army has regularly gone on to decisively crush those groups and has fared much less well against the armed wings of (Shia) political parties with state backing.
He was right, he specifically mentioned how the Taliban actually operates in Afghanistan and the inability of the US to decisively eradicate them. Given that the situation the Taliban finds itself in is far more likely to happen with any socialist force than getting a state benefactor or being able to construct an independent state it would be foolish not to observe how they have survived for close to two decades in occupied territory instead of banking on China just kidding about being capitalist or tankie twitter seizing state apparatus before getting stomped out by reactionary forces.
Is vinterflamma the hottest girl on left twitter? Who are the others?
violence and war > peace and love
atheism is organized around the collective fact they love to smell their own farts together which is pretty gay
Islam isn't that bad, you just need to find the right sect. What you need to exterminate is Shias and Sunnis and revive/help Mutazila and Murjiaa and Abadia which are considered the anarchist sects.
Book of Mormon is OK,majority of American Church members, unfortunately is very republican, so gulag the central ''leaders'' of the Church and let the rest practice their faith.
And it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.
2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.
3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.
>gulag the central leaders of the Church and let the rest practice their faith.
The problem with this is that it's pretty difficult to let Mormons practice their faith without leadership. The prophet and apostles are an integral part of their faith and they would have to be convinced to cooperate with any sort of system (whether that be a socialist state or some sort of ancom- or anarcho syndicalist system).
LDS leadership at the top are all mostly members of the bourgeois. The quorum of the 12 and quorum of the 70 are full of ex lawyers, insurance company executives, bankers, etc.
Given anti-socialist sentiment among some of the more devout members I could see them revolting if the prophet was imprisoned for political reasons, even if he was well taken care of.
their ideas are ok, their heresy is not
I prefer Sufis.