Germany to Ban Tor

Ian Jenkins
Ian Jenkins

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19399576
I've linked the Hacker News page since it provides human translation
They want you to face jail, if you provide an "internet based service", which "accessibility is restricted due to specific, technical precautionary measures", and which "purpose is to allow or encourage specific illegal actions".

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Other urls found in this thread:

heise.de/tp/features/Bundesrat-will-neuen-Darknet-Tatbestand-einfuehren-4351481.html

Cameron Long
Cameron Long

Mit dem Gesetzentwurf, den der nordrhein-westfälische Justizminister Peter Biesenbach (CDU) auf den Weg gebracht hat, soll ein neuer Strafbestand eingeführt werden.
Translation: Peter Biesenbach is virtue signalling with this _draft_ of a law.
Good thread, OP.

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Landon Foster
Landon Foster

i2p

Levi Gomez
Levi Gomez

They want you to face jail, if you provide an "internet based service", which "accessibility is restricted due to specific, technical precautionary measures", and which "purpose is to allow or encourage specific illegal actions".
OK. It's clear what they're targeting with this, and it ain't tor. So where's tor come in?

Juan Brown
Juan Brown

most specifically, tor access isn't restricted. You don't need to know the counter-sign of the Black Hand, you just need to download TorBrowser.

Joseph Wilson
Joseph Wilson

it's just a draft bro!
Thanks for proving you have no idea how legislation works.

The law is vague as fuck, and a fair share of higher ups in justice circles have said they want to ban Tor, most recently by Krings (undersecretary, CDU) during the European Police Congress.

Andrew Scott
Andrew Scott

I wouldn't rule out them being retarded enough to believe that needing to download and run TBB counts as restricted accessibility in and of itself.

Jose Garcia
Jose Garcia

Thanks for proving you have no idea how legislation works.
LARPer spotted.

Isaiah Martin
Isaiah Martin

This right here BTFOs all the "Tor is compromised!" CIAniggers. It's clearly not, because governments are scared enough of it to legislate against it. Why would they need to do that though if they had it backdoored? Seems to me that it's actually really solid security-wise, and that a certain (((narrative))) isn't holding up.

Austin Williams
Austin Williams

what is controlled opposition
what is whitewashing
what is FBI agents entrapping FBI agents and both getting a raise
It doesn't prove anything in either direction.

Samuel Kelly
Samuel Kelly

He's not wrong, though.

Jace Miller
Jace Miller

Well they will do everything to make their jobs easier. But whoever thinks Tor is fully secure is fooling themselves.

Jaxon Richardson
Jaxon Richardson

Having to download Tor/TorBrowser is a specific technical measure that restricts access.
What you need to understand about German law is that it goes by the literal wording of the law (and the documents that described the intent during the creation of it, but that only in extreme cases)

James Howard
James Howard

The chances of the government accepting this draft are lower than the planet exploding tomorrow.

Germany is so serious about the privacy of their citizens, they nearly banned Google for collecting data without permission (which is why Street View is only available in the larger cities).

Case dismissed, shut up...

Parker King
Parker King

In some countries, even using VPN is also illegal.

Only government-approved VPNs are allowed to use
China, Russia, Iran, Oman

Illegal or restricted or fully banned
Turkey, Iraq, Turkmenistan, Belarus, North Korea

Restricted for Individuals
United Arab Emirates (UAE)
Anyone uses a fraudulent IP address to commit a crime or prevent its discovery shall be punished by imprisonment or a fine of up to $400,000 depending on the nature of the crime. Using a VPN to use Skype might cause penalties, too. Worth mentioning that banks, companies, and institutions can use VPN’s freely, it is only individuals who are prohibited from it.

Andrew Campbell
Andrew Campbell

The UAE...
Can't ever decide between being a Shariah Shithole, or a Giant Tourist Magnet. I'm like: "Make up your Mind! Either you want freedom for your people, or you don't!"

As for the other countries, I didn't know Iraq and Belarus were on the list of fully banned.
Iraq has ironically the free-est internet in the entire surrounding, and Belarus recently put in many government and human rights reforms and is openly distancing itself from Russia due to "creative differences".

Jack Long
Jack Long

"purpose is to allow or encourage specific illegal actions"
As far as i understood it's just about being able to jail people for advertising illegal services instead of needing to prove that they actually provide them.

David Garcia
David Garcia

Germany is so serious about the privacy of their citizens
Not in the tiniest bit you goddamn redditor. The only time privacy is suddenly important is when politicians get their data leaked. Then it's the biggest crime on earth.
The rest of the time mass surveillance is totally necessary especially because of the invaders. They don't even call them refugees anymore. Now it's people who fled. (From what is not included) And it's not just mass surveillance. At non-state-encouraged demonstrations there are tons of government spies who make photos of all demonstrators and record everything.
t. German

Jeremiah Perry
Jeremiah Perry

Even if they have some stupid laws written by tech brainlets to capitalize on some sort of mass hysteria, it doesn't mean it works in the slightest.
Russia has like 5 VPNs on their "government-approved VPNs" list (they all located in Russia), the rest just told them to fuck off. And they didn't do shit afterwards.

Colton Myers
Colton Myers

I know an American who moved to Germany to study Law there for practically free.
"It's not worth it," she says, "these people are crazy. The laws are great, but nobody cares when new legislation can't comply with earlier ones. Try to talk about it and they give you that stupid stare. Sometimes I think I'm in a mental asylum."
I imagine it's a fault with the people not just because they don't understand the topic but they wouldn't even if you made a children's book about it.

Evan Phillips
Evan Phillips

It's just a question of when. They will keep pushing the proposal again and again. The majority of citizens will slowly get desensitized to lack of freedom while the smarter ones get resistance fatigue. Then it will quietly pass during a holiday.

Colton Foster
Colton Foster

From what I've gathered from her almost mad bouts of anger it seems almost all legislation is passed quietly and the people simply doesn't care.
It's almost like work work but also in keep laws keep laws. "They literally cannot conceive of bad laws."

Elijah Rivera
Elijah Rivera

Now when I think of it I might understand the other East Coasters. They always used to speak poorly about Europeans and Asians. Not the lands, or cultures, but the individuals.

Isaac Richardson
Isaac Richardson

Only government-approved VPNs
Kek. I didn't even know that was a thing.
It basically defeats the whole purpose for a VPN.

Matthew Wood
Matthew Wood

that stupid stare.
Sometimes I think I'm in a mental asylum.
The words behind the stare:
<This stupid bitch actually thinks this occupied and defeated country enjoys any kind of rule of law?

Eli Edwards
Eli Edwards

fuck the kikes and all the other authoritarians

Cooper Sullivan
Cooper Sullivan

This.

Dominic Wilson
Dominic Wilson

Install kosher java!

Nolan Barnes
Nolan Barnes

i2pd and Kovri are both written in C++

Easton Parker
Easton Parker

Why not kill these people?

What do you have to use.

They don't let you have girls.
They don't let you have guns.
They don't let you have money.

So let them atleast give you heat.

Jacob Hughes
Jacob Hughes

ACTA2 is around the corner, we're fucked either way.

Camden Nelson
Camden Nelson

What about i2p

Colton Cook
Colton Cook

They don't let you have girls
LOL!

Carson Smith
Carson Smith

fuck off, mikee

Jason Fisher
Jason Fisher

they do it in the whole eu now with article 13 etc... they literally working on cencoring hte internet, since the cant control it.... i tell u i hate the government fags so hard.. just want to run into parlament and kill them all. first the destroy the real world with there nwo gender migrant shit, we withdrew into hte internet and now the hunt us here.... dude rly... i will fakcing kill these wiggercunts

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Daniel Brown
Daniel Brown

same in new cuckland and australia... its not the internets fault that they completly shit on us with there politics since the last 5 years. like i said in other posts... we need more fakcing tarrants!

Xavier Garcia
Xavier Garcia

Only government-approved VPNs are allowed to use
Russia
Not really.
The new censorship law aims to prevent people to use public VPN services, like free or paid ones you can access as a random dude.
"Government-approved" in this case means they have to leak the user data to the authorities or face a block from Roskomnadzor.

Obvious holes:
a) they have to find all VPN services in Russia manually, so they can contact them and block them; a lot will probably fly under the radar
b) this is about VPNs owned by Russian citizens and/or in Russia itself; if you ain't either, you can provide your service to "poor Russians" without any legal consequences, though you may get blocked anyway (the law actually cripples national economy in a sense LMAO)
c) you can always roll your own private VPN anywhere, anytime; there are no laws regulating the case of buying a VPS and installing a VPN tunnel to it

So, obviously this shit is aimed at people who are not very curious.

Connor Anderson
Connor Anderson

Also, forgot to add, there is no law about a person using VPN. VPN users are free to use them VPNs like whatever.

Landon Lewis
Landon Lewis

the rest just told them to fuck off. And they didn't do shit afterwards.
Also, this is not true. Roskomnadzor continuously bans more and more domains and IP ranges, but obviously they cannot catch them all.

Caleb Smith
Caleb Smith

The goal of this legislation, which you've confirmed, is to make the use of VPNs as an anonymizing service (why the fuck else would you use them?) impossible.

Samuel Robinson
Samuel Robinson

They are not impossible to use. Just install VPN software into VPS LMAO.
why the fuck else would you use them?
To make a LAN over the WAN, duh.

Julian Ward
Julian Ward

It's not anonymous, since they can always ask the VPN provider for your name.

Hunter Collins
Hunter Collins

Dude, read what I said.

Popular public VPN providers get hit, others are not so much.
Creation of private VPNs is allowed.

Now read what I replied to.
using VPN is also illegal.
Only government-approved VPNs are allowed to use
VPN is not just a service, it's a technology.
And it's easier to setup with all those guides online, since using that software is not really hard.

Austin Garcia
Austin Garcia

They want to be the only ones allowed to violate their citizens privacy.

Colton Scott
Colton Scott

The EU will soon go down and burn. Thanks to the Right is winning across Europe.

Dylan Morales
Dylan Morales

It's not going to happen soon. It's true that not all the EU's plans are not happening as they desire but the EU as an organization isn't losing their influence or their funding at any time in the near future. It will take a few more countries to secede from the EU and cause it to fail and that outcome will not be happening in the near future.

Dominic King
Dominic King

Nuke Germany. Do them a favor, since they aren't allowed to build the nukes to do it themselves (just allowing them to build nuclear weapons would be enough, I doubt that the incompetent, retarded current population of Europe can build a bomb that won't blow up in their faces). It can't be that difficult, just make America believe that Germany is a threat to Israel and they will be gone in a week.

I see these posts everywhere. Amazing levels of delusion there, it's almost like you're trying to convince yourself that everything isn't as bad as it looks. Also, even if the "right" wins, this shit isn't going to stop. Freedom is fucking dead no matter who you put in charge, because no one that values freedom could possibly rule a country in this shithole planet.

secede from the EU
Because that worked so well for the britcucks. How long is that going to take again? 20 years? And I avoid news like the plague at this point because I don't want to know about what these smelly retarded apes are doing, but even I couldn't avoid hearing about the media's constant propaganda, trying to shame them for choosing to leave the EU and damaging their own (((economy))), completely pretending that what they say doesn't manipulate the economy in the first place, and that they aren't trying to take the UK down for daring to oppose their owners. Anyone that opposes the EU will be attacked by the media, and that will hurt them economically. Then they will be told that it will happen in 50 years when most of the people that voted for it are dead, and the elections will be redone until they choose the EU's desired result. Funding isn't a problem because France and Germany would be the last ones to leave and everyone else is broke.

Not that I disagree with the media that they are idiots for leaving, because bongs are retarded no matter what. Their choice was basically irrelevant. They oppress themselves a lot more than even the EU does, it's like they chose to leave just because it's not bad enough and they believe they can do worse. Everyone knows that those faggots have even less freedom than most of the rest of Europe, and everyone else is already shit. Their capital is also almost as Islamic as it gets. Fuck the UK. Fuck the EU, and fuck the planet. They are all subhuman trash and nothing in the universe has even a slight chance of fixing them. Avoiding them should be your most important goal in life. The only things that matter are you and people that matter to you. Everyone else should just go to hell's hell and keep dying and going lower and lower until all of their beings are entirely composed of pain and suffering. No future is the best future.

Alexander Ward
Alexander Ward

lol

Wyatt Gray
Wyatt Gray

Be the change you want to see.

Ian Torres
Ian Torres

How long is that going to take again? 20 years?
If they negotiate "no-deal Brexit", it's going to be fairly quick AFAIU.

Isaiah Perry
Isaiah Perry

So far Tor/I2P are legal in Germany because (unlike RetardShare) they encrypt traffic end-to-end.

Under the new law anyone running any kind of service that doesn't let NSA read everything (be it a shitty password-protected OpenVPN or a Tor node) would be committing a crime.
I doubt it will pass, CCC is too strong and saturday 200.000 people went onto the streets to protest against EU upload filter censorship bullshit.

Anyone who failed to understand this: you need to train your fucking media competence skill.
The PDF specifically mentions Tor so there you go.

Blake Taylor
Blake Taylor

In § 126a StGB-E soll der Begriff des „Anbietens“ durch die bewährte umfas- sendere Formulierung des „Zugänglichmachens“ ersetzt werden, sowie, um in der Praxis Abgrenzungsschwierigkeiten zu vermeiden, das „Erleichtern von Straftaten“ als weitere Tathandlungsalternative aufgenommen werden.

So the unique german offense of "Störerhaftung" shall be applied to even more cases.
It's great that this makes news, most people don't even know about that shit, otherwise Störerhaftung would be a thing of the past already.

Robert Young
Robert Young

I doubt it will pass, CCC is too strong and saturday 200.000 people went onto the streets to protest against EU upload filter censorship bullshit.
Don't underestimate their bullshit. Wait and see how they use the next random terror attack as justification for their draconian laws.

Jackson Mitchell
Jackson Mitchell

media competence training
Back to dietchan, please.

Hunter Cox
Hunter Cox

omg, thx.

Anthony Carter
Anthony Carter

Good. Tor is compromised and jewish. Only used by pedos and glowniggers. This unironicallu good.

Aaron Hernandez
Aaron Hernandez

implying they are not just going to make anti-eu parties illegal.

Jace Hill
Jace Hill

Why not kill these people?

What do you have to use.

They don't let you have girls.

They don't let you have guns.

They don't let you have money.

So let them atleast give you heat.

Michael Watson
Michael Watson

fuck off, mikee

Why? And no.

Grayson Flores
Grayson Flores

wants all traffic to be tied with personally identifying information
okay buddy, but that means you shouldn't be on this board

Jonathan Long
Jonathan Long

How much longer until Germany ends their fake 'ethical hacker' culture and starts to make something similar to Turkish hacker forums?

James Ward
James Ward

Why not kill these people?

What do you have to use.

They don't let you have girls.

They don't let you have guns.

They don't let you have money.

So let them atleast give you heat.

Owen White
Owen White

Telepolis hat jetzt auch was dazu aber habs nicht gelesen
heise.de/tp/features/Bundesrat-will-neuen-Darknet-Tatbestand-einfuehren-4351481.html

Carson Myers
Carson Myers

the problem with hi density populated areas like a lot of europe is that p2p hybrid mesh networks could actually work, and it seems the EU has now made it it's top priority to create the demand such a network would require to be viable.

Noah Scott
Noah Scott

OnionShare doesn't?

Carter Gutierrez
Carter Gutierrez

I meant RetroShare, sorry.

Luke Kelly
Luke Kelly

They don't let you have girls.
They don't let you have guns.
They don't let you have money.
If you ever let the state of affairs of men in a country get that bad then you should quit beating around the bush and sell your woman to a nigger and commit suicide, because that is exactly what the end result will be anyways.

Charles Hill
Charles Hill

doubt it will pass
It will, eventually.

Asher Sullivan
Asher Sullivan

draft is no reason for alarm

(((user)))

Juan Mitchell
Juan Mitchell

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Charles Cooper
Charles Cooper

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Josiah Collins
Josiah Collins

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Andrew Collins
Andrew Collins

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Mason Hughes
Mason Hughes

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Jaxon Reyes
Jaxon Reyes

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Eli Lewis
Eli Lewis

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Bentley Baker
Bentley Baker

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Alexander Cox
Alexander Cox

Europeons need to burn in a tar-pit. Disgusting

Julian Miller
Julian Miller

LOL, I wish I thought of doing that!

Ayden Ortiz
Ayden Ortiz

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Christian Long
Christian Long

Masons, Masons everywhere...

Luis Brown
Luis Brown

Good idea user, but don't you think that idea is a bit too Jewish?