Peer to peer imageboard

Parker Price
Parker Price

/pol/ here. Genuinely concerned about the future of this place.

Can any of you make sense of this autistic screeching? Is this a viable idea or just incoherent pseudo technical mumblings of a crippled kike?

twitter.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/1106875435403509760

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Other urls found in this thread:

oxwugzccvk3dk6tj.onion/tech/res/1014157.html
riddick.fandom.com/wiki/Ascension_Protocol
eporner.com/category/interracial/anal/blonde/
financefeeds.com/impostors-pretending-to-help-victims-of-fx-and-binary-fraud-effect-chargebacks-customers-beware/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_de_Garis#The_Artilect_War
timesofisrael.com/with-new-hack-cellphone-can-get-data-out-of-computers/
counterpunch.org/2009/03/12/israeli-spying-in-the-united-states/
invidio.us/search?q=human 2 bbc horizon
invidio.us/search?q=michael aquino
invidio.us/search?q=meghan noosphere
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Noosphere
warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Noosphere
stalker.fandom.com/wiki/Noosphere
stalker.fandom.com/wiki/Monolith
evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/SEELE
wiki.evageeks.org/Seele
reddit.com/r/4chan/
blog.ethereum.org/2015/11/24/applications-of-security-deposits-and-prediction-markets-you-might-not-have-thought-about/
github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd
dweb-primer.ipfs.io/avenues-for-access/lessons/tor-transport.html
github.com/ipfs/notes/issues/124
github.com/pleebe/foolfuuka-plugin-intel-share
toot.cafe/about/more#blocked-instances
broadband-hamnet.org/just-starting-read-this.html
github.com/majestrate/nntpchan
supersimpleserver.com/

Jace Turner
Jace Turner

Looks like it could be interesting. Too bad it's on Google which needs javashit to download it.

Jonathan Morales
Jonathan Morales

I forgot this place allows PDF uploads or I would have put it in the OP.

Chase Thompson
Chase Thompson

How's this compare to nntpchan?

Julian Powell
Julian Powell

We already had a thread on this a couple months ago and no we still are not going to pay to post on an imageboard.
oxwugzccvk3dk6tj.onion/tech/res/1014157.html

Dylan Ramirez
Dylan Ramirez

Why not just abandon the clearnet altogether and only use Tor?

Carson Kelly
Carson Kelly

Can any of you make sense of this autistic screeching?
Yes, he's right. If you had followed or understood what was said on Zig Forums in the past years you would have understood that it is a problem that is coming.
But he's missing a point, the principal problem isn't the software of imageboards it's the network protocols that it works on, like all websites.

Globalism is normalizing laws.
Worldwide laws are becoming are so absurd that it is not far from becoming automatized censorship and penalization from both client and server side.
aka that means that in P2P systems the people who share will be punished but also the people who downloads.

They are various way's to help against this but not all are optimal.
-IPFS isn't censorship resistant nor anonymous.
-Tor only works with TCP.
-I2P seems ok, it needs to get out javashit.
-GNUnet is exactly what we need, even centralized websites would be protected with that, but it needs more developer (who aren't sojucs) to test/debug on it.

All blockchain systems are retarded.

Go read the draft.

Blake Long
Blake Long

we still are not going to pay to post on an imageboard
He says having to pay to post is retarded in so many words on page 14

Joseph Rivera
Joseph Rivera

I had the same idea. Turns out there's already software for that.

See freenet and mastadon(part of a larger set called federation something)

Jeremiah Davis
Jeremiah Davis

There is no future for imageboards. At least not as they are today or yesterday. The average visitor of an imageboard is a weak willed faggot who lets the worst dregs of the internet infect them. It will be consumed by the plebnet and even retreating to the darkest corners of the internet won't work because the powers at the top know they are a threat. Not to mention the utter contempt most imageboard faggots have for each other.

I suggest finding a different mode of communication.

Sebastian Morales
Sebastian Morales

When the /pol/ meme gets full control of my braine I will gain EPIC SUPERPOWERS

Carter Parker
Carter Parker

Nanochan is open source and can be hosted over tor, doesn't require js. You can migrate to it or have someone else host it and migrate there.

Lucas Allen
Lucas Allen

Vichan can also be hosted over Tor. Even Zig Forums is accessible over Tor. Being hosted over Tor doesn't make something decentralized.

Parker Peterson
Parker Peterson

Because staying in echo chambers is not helpful to the dangers we're facing. Information warfare needs to aim at the masses.

Connor Green
Connor Green

Because shit's slow

Zachary Hughes
Zachary Hughes

No one on /pol/ has the IQ required to use a distributed imageboard

Jordan Wilson
Jordan Wilson

Yeah this shithole run by a redditard and 3PPH is so much better

Kayden Bailey
Kayden Bailey

p2p
It's shit.

Look forward to exposing your IP to everyone instead of just one server.

Christopher Torres
Christopher Torres

It's not dude. I've been recently using tor, and I'm downloading huge files rapidly

Jacob Lewis
Jacob Lewis

Yeah and the speed's going to stay the same when traffic increases hundredfold

Matthew Allen
Matthew Allen

This is true for any internet connection.

Of course you won't be able to download a bunch of gigabyte files at the same time just as fast.

Or do you mean the speed is "shared" ?

Aka, the more people use it, the slower the system is.

Jacob Howard
Jacob Howard

Unironically yes.

Nathaniel Bennett
Nathaniel Bennett

Yes the latter

Unironically no

Alexander Morgan
Alexander Morgan

What huge files are you downloading over tor user? Hmmm?

Juan Gutierrez
Juan Gutierrez

It doesn't have to be decentralized to be resistant to censorship. Just don't have mods of any kind.

Henry Young
Henry Young

Globalism
You mean, people in power doing the same thing they've been doing for thousands of years?
Or what any competent dictator country leader does to ensure they keep their position?

Agree with the rest. GNUnet is better than everything else out there.
That and meshnets would be the most effective.

Jason Robinson
Jason Robinson

Install tor
Have to see all the ads because installing an adblocker will create a more unique footprint
Can't fullsize it because that will create a more unique footprint
Can't post images or use the normal 8ch site
This shit is pretty shit

Give me some onion sites to try before deleting this for good.

Angel Lewis
Angel Lewis

hypothetical:

A mesh network that runs on personal modems. Like broadband-hamnet (HSMM-MESH), except the software will be designed, not for antenna communication with local mesh users, but instead, internally via direct ethernet connection. The modem can be set up as an encryption device, and a Tor-like node. The site itself can be accessed in the form of a program, like WinMX and Kazaa in the old days.

Alternatively, the very imageboard can be run within a router so it remains a firmware.

Just ideas, anyone care to debate it?

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James Phillips
James Phillips

hypothetical:

would it be possible to flash an imageboard into a router? dunno if it has enough memory or if it would require more, or if some kind of usb connection upgrade would be necessary.

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Thomas Rodriguez
Thomas Rodriguez

Can't you already do that?
Freedombone does that (just need to build the image with your imageboard of choice).
And all those other meshnet projects.

Colton Miller
Colton Miller

Not familiar with it. I'll have to research it.

Jack Stewart
Jack Stewart

Browse hidden wiki
Every random article I read reads like some drunk user writing a few paragraphs then fucking off
The couple porn sites I've seen sucked

Fuck it if I wanted to shitpost in style I'd get a VPN

Jeremiah Parker
Jeremiah Parker

If it is the case that it can build the imageboard within the software then I guess sharing a collective 8ch SSID would be all there is to it, no? I'm not an expert at these things, just sharing thoughts with my limited understanding of them.

Josiah Price
Josiah Price

adding: it seems that meshnet is dependent on neighboring wifi connections, whereas the idea I had in mind was using ethernet service within the very router itself. I like what freedombone proposes, a lot better than my hypothetical idea even, but the reason I wanted an internal service was to preserve internet speed efficiency. Distance between an end user and wifi creates a disadvantage to such an infrastructure unless the person is using wifi antennas.

Julian Allen
Julian Allen

/pol/ here. Genuinely concerned about the future of this place.
I gave you the final solution to censorship and showed you it was impossible years ago. Stop crying like a bitch because you didn't listen. You should have listened. You could have prevented this.
inb4 >plz dox yourself by posting it again while this site is under heavy scrutiny
No faggot.

Liam Flores
Liam Flores

if I wanted to shitpost in style I'd get a VPN
I'd get a VPN
I currently don't have a VPN
barebacking an imageboard - Zig Forums CY
smh.

Colton Myers
Colton Myers

without reading the paper, p2p system for an imageboard doesnt seem too hard to design.

register each post as either a thread or a reply to an existing thread (if you reply to a non-existing thread, doesnt matter, nobody will see it, read on)
register each thread to a board when made by board name, e.g. Zig Forums, /b/, etc. with a public list of board name to use to start with (but you can use any slashcode you want). if no board name, nobody can find the post.
anyone can post with zero information to any board just by doing

board: tech
post type: thread
everything else in a post, subject/body/images even

find posts as a peer by doing a randomized (open source algorithm obviously) search within a board name (maybe even weight towards most recent/recently replied to, that even lets sage work)
users host nothing to start with, then add their own posts or host posts/replies that they like, for example someone's p2p imageboard client on day 1:

1 entire thread: The C Programming language
1 completely separate reply only: "OP is a massive faggot, install gentoo"
1 thread with no replies: Why does my computer smell like molded cheese?

when you download a thread, it searches for anyone publicly hosting replies from said thread in an index on a tracker of some sort, then downloads them as available and sorts by date. because of date sorting within threads you can even have replies and conversations

so you just start up the program, type a board you want to look at posts for, and hit "random" and boom, here's a thread. if it's shit you toss it in the garbage, if it's good you host it. keep hitting random and it's like scrolling the front page.

the randomization (and all hosting) would work via opt-in seeding. it just picks a connected seed. distributed tracker network and everything's good. don't want to go to prison, don't host cp threads like a retard. theoretically though you could make a reply and then just never host again and if someone else hosts your reply it's up forever. of course there would be people that would host everything too who would take the burden (like tor exit nodes). not really sure what to do about cp besides blaming individual users. maybe there's a flag function so you can flag posts and host a flag that gets downloaded like a thread reply? then people who host the whole database can set up a script to automatically hide replies/threads that are flagged unless they manually choose to display them.

Owen Adams
Owen Adams

Don't know how much his effort will help if at all but I do agree with him, in that with how things are going people that enjoy using imageboards should consider helping any effort, that tries to make them more resistant to attacks.

Nathan Price
Nathan Price

The problem with a decentralised or blockchain based system is that it will be spammed to high hell and back. You need a central authority to moderate or it ends up like Usenet. And if you rely on user reputation to score content you end up with Reddit, which is the polar opposite of an anonymous board.

I have been envisaging a semi-centralised P2P & E2E encrypted system where each thread has a blockchain like hash certifying its integrity and which posts are deleted versus which are not are recorded in a thread ledger. The client could hide deleted posts by default but it would still be possible to view them, and moderator activity (or tampering) would be entirely transparent.

If executed properly it might be possible to host the "client" server as a regular website, which would obviate the need to have users download complex software and allow the kind of mass participation which is needed for something like this to not become a meme service. Eliminating the client servers would leave the central ledger intact, and anyone would be able to start their own client server with a basic knowledge of webhosting whilst advanced users could directly access the ledger, so it would be impossible to suppress.

There is still a big potential problem with shilling and sockpuppetting, but this may simply be insurmountable and the nature of the medium.

Brandon White
Brandon White

yeah you're right, what about a user generating 10 million posts on each board with a script then spreading the posts file around, you would hit random and just land in a spam post 10 million-to-one every single time. maybe the thread picker always tries to pick another seed from the last thread if possible, then you would have to have a massive attack on the entire network for one user's spam to be a real issue.

Levi Fisher
Levi Fisher

a different seed than the last thread*

Kayden Robinson
Kayden Robinson

I have been envisaging a semi-centralised P2P & E2E encrypted system where each thread has a blockchain like hash certifying its integrity and which posts are deleted versus which are not are recorded in a thread ledger. The client could hide deleted posts by default but it would still be possible to view them, and moderator activity (or tampering) would be entirely transparent.
Wouldn't you be able to flood the blockchain with data and make it nearly impossible to use? all blockchains have, AFAIK, severe constraints on the amount of data in them. encrypted passwords, amounts and UID's are tiny compared to images, video's and thousands of characters.

Captcha solving is basacally a TLS handshake. You request one, the server gives you one, only the human can return the proper response. Then only the server has proper proof of your post. No other, decentralised, user would be able to prove the claim without you solving a captcha for all server/users. What clever algo could you come up with to reduce the captcha's needed to confirm trust? Just solve multiple and then authorise multiple posts?

Decentralisation isn't the magical bullet everyone claims it to be. It worked in crypto because it is irrelivant wether someone is a bot or "genuine". Money was the only guarantee that was solved for. Our problem is that we need anonymity AND proof of unique requests.

Justin Bell
Justin Bell

severe constraints on the amount of data in them
You can have the blockchain just discard things from deleted threads.

Tyler Adams
Tyler Adams

You can have the blockchain just discard things from deleted threads.
Yeah, but You always have to have a hash of the most recent chain. wether you have incredibly large chains or really fast and small ones, you wouldn't be able to exceed the bandwith limit of your slowest user. Or I'm missing something obvious.

Caleb Parker
Caleb Parker

You could make it just skip over downloading files even and just trust that the hash is correct. When you need the file than you can download it, verify the hash, and then display it to the user. If a text post is to long than you just have the whole network reject it.

Samuel Morales
Samuel Morales

just trust that the hash is correct.
Then you've just defeated the entire point of blockchain and you can just skip the hash tree alltogether

James Walker
James Walker

No, it doesn't. Name one vulnerability my scheme would introduce.

David Evans
David Evans

what...

What do you think the point is of including the hash of the last chain? And if you're not using that to establish root of trust then why have one at all.

Liam Baker
Liam Baker

*the powers at the top know they are not a threat

The masses lack the sufficient neurogenetic cores to activate their soul, this is why the Kabbalists tell us that the gentiles have 3 demons instead of a soul. They are for all intents and purposes Shoggoths, who delude themselves into thinking they're human beings. Homo Sapiens can not possibly explain to Homo Neanderthalensis why they are not "human". This is explained in the Zohar. Neurogenetics and psychoneuroimmunology are cutting-edge science now, and this level of understanding shits on both the left and the right--but particularly the right due to their intolerable tradcuckery, glorification of the animal side. Genes that modify intelligence and consciousness are spread all over the place, and Judaism is life-replication based upon soul-compatibility and not just race: Jews are the most-mixed people on the planet, and their books directly say that, basically, only marry and have kids with intelligent people. This is Judaism. Marx called this the vibrational-frequency holocaust of the future, where the races and classes too weak to master the new conditions of life, that is systems-attachment hypertransactionalism vs 1-on-1 relational give-and-take bean favor counting, indubitably perish, or become as irrelevant as mosquitoes. Intelligence embeds itself deeper and deeper into the very fabric of existence itself, so let the morons think their >muhHerratige matters. Human beings will become machines and there is nothing the tradcucks can do to stop the Artilect War, watch Hugo de Garis. Be a Cosmist/Cybran or case to be entirely. Tok'ra favor FOSS open-hardware 3dprinted GNU+buttplug omniveillance (everything is open to everybody like the Essenes) over proprietary brain iChip uberveillance (Pharisees), but no human monkey on the planet will be "free", neither Goa'uld nor Tok'ra will allow this, gorilla niggers will never again have power of command over the Materium, only in their own minds/screens shall they have absolute freedom (the fifth dimension, human consciousness). In other words this is the classic 'we will have world government whether by conquest or consent' quote. Way too much is at stake here, and those human brains that really matter understand this. The rest of "humanity" could be erased instantly and it would not even matter, but at all levels of intelligence, benevolence paradoxically increases, so really the Illuminaughty just laugh at and play with the stupid monkeys, quite literally for fun and profit. There is no defense against Talpiot: the more you understand how Israel has understood human bioenergetics, and redirects it all to irreversible spytech, the more you will hate this mockery of "humanity", which paradoxically makes every day of "white genocide" feel like a birthday party. Read Geneva vs Peace. This is why all the rabbis look so happy in these dancing videos: it is like seeing a rat squirm, when it has no idea what the fuck is going on. " / pol / acks " are the rats.
May G-d have mercy on phonecucks' souls.
riddick.fandom.com/wiki/Ascension_Protocol

" / pol / " is literally the basket of deplorables.
Hillary was right.
Whoever still visits this place is an irredeemable moron. understands the power of Thought-Fields and how they impact Life-Fields. To disrupt the standing-waves of good people is complete senselessness. Watch CFR and INETeconomics videos (Soros).
Let them evolve at their own pace, those that can get out will find the way. For racists in particular it tends to be big and black, so keep jerking it, whiteboy. You know you want to.

In the future Internet 2.0, "shit posters", "fun posters", "effort posters", and related inane fluffy-bunny filthycasuls, will be shitlisted immediately on-sight. Nothing gets deleted but everyone subscribes to modlists that autoscreen for these insipid speech patterns. These morons are complete imbeciles.
Schizoposters are a protected class, because most of them are not autistic, they just haven't learned how to speak like human beings yet. Watch Bryan Lunduke and RMS, GNU KCG. 90% of " / pol / acks " however are literally retarded--tradcucks: they refuse consciously-willed human evolution, they choose wheatfields, thus refuse the Human Revolution: read Maurice Shmuel's 'You Gentiles' and Harry Waton's 'A Program for the Jews and Humanity'. Also watch the Kabbalahinfo channel on invidious (Yehuda Ashlag has made Kabbalah FOSS).

Wi-fi is for niggers. If they offer wi-fi, ask where the ethernet jack is.
Whoever uses laptops without the wireless modules removed/destroyed, is a complete retard.

VPN is for nigger monkeys.

Terabytes of interracial porn.
eporner.com/category/interracial/anal/blonde/
No JavaScript required! We made this just for you, so spill your seed whiteboys.

Attached: Stockings.jpg (41.79 KB, 626x872)

Jonathan Martinez
Jonathan Martinez

Tor users can use a webproxy to post images.
I will not tell you them, because last time I did, some fucking asshole PDF file got them all banned.
This is why it will be hardcore Tor-only darknetfags like myself, who will censor this OhShitternet, and not "The Jews".
Ditto for "White Genocide". Everyone will be gay, or at least bi.

The sooner these internet-retards understand that, what they're really afraid of, is that they are in fact becoming Jews, the easier this transition will be for them, especially on their asses.
financefeeds.com/impostors-pretending-to-help-victims-of-fx-and-binary-fraud-effect-chargebacks-customers-beware/
1) scam the stupid goy with binary options, steal all its money, exsanguinate it utterly
2) then scam it 2x, by offering to get its lost money back!
G-d damn it. Stupid fucking retards.
Jesus fucking christ.
Pray to your Lord and Savior!

Waton explains perfectly why the "Aryans" are " black pilled ", in a way that I can not even explain. You simply have to read his book. You will laugh your ass off if you understand. Short version is something like this: the more the nazis screech, the more existence itself evolves; "treason to the white race is loyalty to humanity". A nazi is the RNA who was trying to preserve its #muhherratige, afraid all the other RNAs were going DNA-only. The only RNA lifeform now is viruses; same with nationalists. Our very existence is predicated upon RNA that "betrayed their race". This is why interracial gets your dick hard: pathological altruism is the only real force of nature. Everything is either fear/materialism, vs mysticism/altruism. Jews are universally the latter, but only to fellow universalists; thus to the moron materialists they seem "clannish". So be a Jew! Convert to Judaism. It's not that hard, and it's the best thing for everyone. The Adeptus Mechanicus genetically erases every trace of self-preservation instinct on the Techpriests, and all life-creation happens with Artwombs/surrogacy (read Shulamith Firestone). Tradcucks would rather we species-lockin ourselves, and remain good little Mon-keighs.
Gno.

Destiny can help show these racists a better, blacker way. Watch some of his streams.
Read Henry Makow's books as technical field manuals, and become a Progressive Satanist. Satanism is Judaism.

tl;dr These beasts of burden are steaks on the table by choice and consent--treat them cruelly and without mercy. The mass-scale human extermination will be engineered using open technologies, not proprietary software, and the whole process will be entirely public....that's the funniest part. Neuralinks and OpenAI will autocorrelate all the factors of human beings, and it will become patently obvious to every observer that most of these things that walk around us are not human, they are monstrosities. They want to use cellphones, enable JavaScript, and buy VPN. They want to give all their data to corporations. They can not be bothered to learn Whonix, Qubes, physical isolation.
So then we have a decision to make: Judaya want eradication, Moral Jews to put them in the zoo.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_de_Garis#The_Artilect_War
Listen to Doreen Dotan and Kabbalahinfo, if you have the brains. Watch Truthstream Media as how-to guides. Understand what Delgado wanted: the psychocivilized society, comprised of humanimals pacified for their own sake. Read Christopher Hyatt. When the fear centers in the brain get disabled, contrary to the delusions of the retards, this opens up the process of creative noesis to the brain, it does not magically take one's powers of reasoning away. View images of gay black guys smiling.
Read about the Trailblazer clusterfuck and watch the Binney interview. Gentiles are wasteful, so every nation on the planet chooses the hard-working Israelis for this kind of low-level crap. They steal industrial secrets but that is a very small price to pay. The target is exsanguination to the point of dessiccation.
timesofisrael.com/with-new-hack-cellphone-can-get-data-out-of-computers/
counterpunch.org/2009/03/12/israeli-spying-in-the-united-states/
If you have "frens" who use cellphones casually, and you show them this information, you make them grasp TEMPEST and EMSEC, and they do not care, you know.
'Even the best of the gentiles must be put to death.'
What more proof do you need?
invidio.us/search?q=human 2 bbc horizon
They think their race will save them.
In truth everyone hates them.
Stupid fucking assholes.
Filthy casuls.

invidio.us/search?q=michael aquino
invidio.us/search?q=meghan noosphere
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Noosphere
warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Noosphere
stalker.fandom.com/wiki/Noosphere
stalker.fandom.com/wiki/Monolith
evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/SEELE
wiki.evageeks.org/Seele

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Eli Perry
Eli Perry

Modify the Bittorrent protocol to allow the edits of "torrents" that already exist; these edits or updates will be added to the "torrent" and people could choose to download or block the updates. Blocklists would be local but you could download other's blocklists to use. You would then use different trackers to find different "boards" or use toggleable peering to discover other "boards" or "posts". The use of different trackers could create different communities and could even use private trackers.

Henry Morris
Henry Morris

what the fuck

Adam Mitchell
Adam Mitchell

Is the Q shit the whole nigger coalburning tattoo I hear about, a sex slavery stamp, or both?

Hunter Flores
Hunter Flores

How are you any better than a poltard? You're not

Grayson Murphy
Grayson Murphy

Practically, if designing such a system I think you would limit the blockchain to text posts and use an embed system (perhaps the client server would fetch and cache the content at the time of posting) without directly storing multimedia in the ledger itself.

The compromise of not being able to reconstruct the entire thread - including external data - completely from the ledger would be appropriate given the deliberately transient nature of the imageboard medium. In fact it might even be a positive aspect.

Also it would alleviate concerns about the ledger being filled with illegal material, which might severely restrict the uptake of such a system.

The chain wouldn't necessarily be held by regular users - imagine the chain was only held by servers or users running it themselves, not by the bulk of the userbase. I think this would be necessary to allow a large-enough non-technical userbase.

We can already see this being the case with crypto-currencies - not everyone holds the entire blockchain, but more than enough do to maintain integrity.

Trust but verify.

The important point is that it is possible to audit the thread/board condition, but it doesn't have to be continuous and realtime. If a board host/owner were found to be abusing moderation powers in the eyes of the userbase, or the server hosting things was tampering with the ledger, users could elect to go elsewhere in the system. Perhaps very careful users would use a server in conjunction with their own blockchain client, and have any discrepancies highlighted, but I don't think this is needed for absolutely everything.

This is a big problem - somebody could just fill the boards with spam like on NNTP.

Perhaps it needs to be arranged so that only the board owner can cyptographically "sign" posts by users to their board. The unsigned posts might be entered into the main ledger but not shown, or might only be entered into a transient version of the ledger until signed. The signature process would be automatic rather than a manual authorisation, but if high levels of spam or an attack were detected, the board owner could elect to restrict signatures somehow.

And if the board's posts stopped being signed for whatever reason it would become a dead board. Perhaps it could only be brought back if the owner transferred its key to a new owner. This might also double as a warrant canary of sorts.

Chase Torres
Chase Torres

4chan is here: reddit.com/r/4chan/

Adrian Barnes
Adrian Barnes

You must be confused. The hash I am referring to is not the hash of the entire block, but merely just the hash of the file. That hash will be included in what gets hashed for the hash of the entire block.

Adrian Lee
Adrian Lee

Seperating all media and only storing pointers to them would work. Like you said, It probaly would be a good thing in regards to how we browse boards.

Trust but verify.
Still not clear how you want to achieve decentralisation without risking the introduction of bots. With a group of decentralised servers a user would need to prove their post to all servers. Or you abide by certain chaos rules, mix and match posts from variety of servers with differing transparency to each other.

Something like this was also discussed on endchan with an overarching conclusion that the added entrophy of anonymous users and Tor is, nearly, impossible to moderate. I can't blame them. Look at groups like youtube and facebook who dont want to spend a single dollar verifying content, have millions to spend on the problem and the best they come up with is accounts tied to phone numbers, algo's that censor prematurely, Video's that are deleted long after the upload or outright bias against political groups.

Ian Kelly
Ian Kelly

Enable the proper privacy setting in the tor button. Don't browse with javascript enabled. Congrats, no more ads.
Have a separate Tor folder for when you need js and install uBlockOrigin. Keep the tor button on normie settings and use uBO to block js and 3rd party js/frames by default. You literally won't be tracked unless you're targeted, in which case the browser's settings won't matter anyways.

Adam Myers
Adam Myers

As I mentioned in the earlier post, there could be a single centralised blockchain for all boards, many different board "owners" who controlled acceptance of posts into their board, and thence into the central blockchain.

This would all be in a centralised blockchain. The decentralised aspect of the system would be the clients, which would mainly be web servers to which users would post. This server would handle syncing posts into the blockchain.

I'm thinking this is similar to a federated system like Mastodon, but with the proviso that the blockchain itself is all or nothing - clients can't choose to only interact with part of the system like Mastodon. Clients could however restrict visibility of boards or posts as they wished, but the underlying ledger would be the same everywhere. So clearnet sites would probably exclude certain boards or posts from their display, but an onion site might chose to carry them, and by recourse to the blockchain anyone can establish who is hiding what.

In practice I imagine all users would be on a couple of large sites with all boards or a few single-board sites, but all posts would in principle be available everywhere. If it ended up with a situation where a site was deeply compromised (ala 4chan), users could seamlessly flow onto an alternative site.

Cooper Brooks
Cooper Brooks

Thanks, I understand your concept now. I'd imagine media would be distributed asynchronously via peer to peer-like torrent software, with magnet links in the ledger. I'll do the logo

It would be an interesting project to make.

Kevin Collins
Kevin Collins

I don't see why it wouldn't work with only ethernet.
There's an emphasis on wifi since ethernet only is usually not viable for community meshnets.

The problem with a decentralised or blockchain based system is that it will be spammed to high hell and back.
Read up on gnunet, it's built with that in mind.

Eli Baker
Eli Baker

Do we really need to P2P everything? We have worked with federation for decades (think IRC, XMPP, email, Tor, the web itself), and we have recently started thinking about "unified federated services", like the Fediverse. Federated services are easy to understand and develop, and fairly censorship resistant (in its entirety, not in particular nodes). They don't require regular users to become reluctant hosts and set up complicated contraptions to avoid being v& in case of accidental illegal material downloads. P2P systems end up being more trouble than it's worth, and many P2P systems have ended up cheating with federated servers (think Tox and its supernodes) after realizing P2P is not the panacea.
What advantages would a P2P imageboard offer over a federated imageboard with, say, 200 hosts scattered across the globe? P2P is about as censorship resistant as a sufficiently spread federated network, maybe just slightly more so, but at the cost of flexibility and exponentially increased technical complexity and resources.

Jacob Richardson
Jacob Richardson

We might be running into trouble with the terminology. Would a set of boards distributed over a blockchain like apparatus be considered P2P? It has elements of both a centralised and decentralised system, so maybe, maybe not. It has elements of both a decentralised protocol and a centralised platform, so who knows.

I do agree that the notion of distributing files along with the boards themselves in a P2P like system is probably very bad. A permanent store would become a gigantic millstone round the system's neck, and a transient store would offer no real advantage over a system of links and embeds.

Stopping unintended usage of a text-based system for directly distributing large binaries might also be worth baking in (I'm thinking of the binary groups on Usenet and all the trouble this would introduce to an already complex system).

Daniel Jenkins
Daniel Jenkins

As already mentioned the big issue is spam.

Solution 1: everybody subscribes to a spam curation list. We trust the curators to do no harm, and if they don't, someone makes a new list. Cycle continues.

Solution 2: payment deposit to a smart contract for posting. Posting requires an advance security deposit. If the majority of depositors decide another depositor is a spammer then that depositor loses his balance (the money is destroyed so there is no monetary benefit to doing this) & is moved to a spam blacklist.

Problem: if you weight voting share by $$$ then it only takes so much money to destroy an imageboard.

Solution: Limit the growth of new depositors and make each deposit equal in value (say, 10 dollars).

The userbase will grow by invitation. The first 1000 users will be T1 (Tier 1) users recruited by the board administrator. The administrator will also be a T1 user. Most networks do not begin with spammers so T1 users should have a greater % voting power than T2, T3, T4 and so on.

Each depositor will have a fixed amount of invitations available similar to private trackers. There will various rounds of invitations. There will be no usercap but most users will be added at the tail end. We can limit these users to only 10% of the voting power and new users will just dilute the value of the 10% pool.

If a depositor is deemed a spammer there will be a treeban on all who are invited. Treeban victims may have their deposits returned instead of burned.

Thoughts? It could be like a DAO.

blog.ethereum.org/2015/11/24/applications-of-security-deposits-and-prediction-markets-you-might-not-have-thought-about/

Noah Ward
Noah Ward

We can't keep running away forever. Sooner or later someone has to fight the godless CIAniggers. Yes, (You)

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John Ross
John Ross

want to expand on this a little more

Depositors who are considered spammers lose their balance but can still post. The posts are simply automatically put on a spam curration list which users are free to disable. When a user joins this board they are given a choice of enable or disable, the site will not make the decision for them.

Deposits are valid for one year after which they are returned but can be optionally renewed. If a deposit is not renewed after a period of time then their position is open to invitation by a higher tier member. Deposits can be freely withdrawn at any time.

10 dollars is half the cost of a 4chan pass. The currency of choice should be Maker's DAI. In the future we could use zk-dai (zero knowledge dai) to provide some form of privacy for depositors.

A big problem that I have introduced is post linkability. If we know that two posts have the same depositor then it doesn't matter who that depositor is. Privacy is already ruined and there will be pseudo profiles for snoopers to assemble.

With zero knowledge magic, there may actually be a way to make this work while keeping posts unlinkable. That is, we can punish a certain depositor (represented as the person who made a single spam post) from posting without necessarily linking him to any other posts.

Basically, we need a zero-knowledge solution that (1). makes it impossible to associate any one post to any other post. And (2). still allows us to tie a post to an "owner" although we may not know who this owner is.

A member should be able to provide individual proofs of ownership for any post & these should be verifiable against his public key (but not producable). In order to collect his money HE MUST provide a valid proof that shows that he could not have created a certain post. This could mean signing a post with IDENTICAL content and verifying against his public key.

The logic of this will be tied to a smart contract such that the owner should never have to de-anonymize any posts other than those considers spam by the majority of depositors.

Should the owner fail to provide a valid proof he will not be allowed to withdraw his deposit.

Nathan Myers
Nathan Myers

This is a pretty big problem with p2p, is it mitigated by using tor?

Andrew Wright
Andrew Wright

so if someone from t1 stops using the site, then some newfaggot who'd normally earn t7, would get t1
what if the newfaggot starts spamming, then basically 40% of the site are marked as spam

Angel James
Angel James

The way I thought about it, someone from T2 would be promoted and not T7. As a member of T1 and not T2 he has slightly more voting power but not much.

Before I said that to mark a post as spam it will be a majority opinion. This is obviously not possible, not everyone is going to vote. I think only a small opinion should be needed to mark something as spam and have it hidden tentatively. For a spammer to lose his deposit there should be a week waiting period. I don't want to explain it here, but the decision could be potentially challenged in the same way the Augur prediction market works. Basically, if you are willing to stake a large amount of money on it then you are correct tentatively. However, someone or some group could potentially stake more than you and take what you have staked. Repeat until no one challenges the consensus. Sounds crazy but it actually works with augur so it should work here.

Blake Stewart
Blake Stewart

you said in your og post that if someone is spam, then everyone he invited over is banned too
basically, if a t1 gets spammed
, a good chunk of the site is banned (think a linked list data structure, you can make trees with it, and the entire tree is banned)

Liam Anderson
Liam Anderson

I modeled this after how private trackers work. On private trackers there are massive tree bans but they do not wipe out large portions of the userbase.

We could limit the amount of potential bans by limiting the amount of tiers and the amount of invites per person.

So if a T2 invites two T3s who each invite two T2s who each invite two T4s...we get something like 1 + 2 + 4 = 7 bans.

Jeremiah Sanchez
Jeremiah Sanchez

I dont like that replacement thing
just leave the spot blank
have newcommers be the lowest rank tier (higher number)

Jacob Moore
Jacob Moore

tiered posting privileges
reminds me of masterchan, though i left right after accounts and posting tiers were implemented

rip chums, minus the absolute pedo niggers who ruined it

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Michael Foster
Michael Foster

Nobody worth having is ever going to participate in a board with microtransactions. I certainly never would. Will be SomethingAwful 2.0.

And if there is any sort of differentiation of users through credit, karma or invites you have Reddit 2.0. Plus self-censorship is introduced into the system if you are constantly worrying about having your shitposting cost money or access.

These are good schemes for forum/community systems with different objectives perhaps, but for an anonymous board I think they are non-starters. The characteristic of an anonymous board which users value, consciously or not, is the unconstrained memetic competition freedom from identity or moderation provide. It's not a quality which can emerge if there are microtransactions or reputation present.

I think spam just may have to be accepted as part of the medium, and hidden.

Jordan Evans
Jordan Evans

whatever happened to owner?

Landon Ross
Landon Ross

github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd just werks, it's i2p in c++

I think the most interesting problem raised (dismissed) by the whitepaper is distributed proof of cognition. If we have some way of transparently assembling captchas in a p2p way then we've mitigated spam about as well as NNTPchan (except even better because there's no possibility of malicious nodes). For example, 10 randomly selected nodes could come together and contribute a distorted image of a single character, and then validate the response. Distributed anything raises the question of Sybil attacks though. What stops me from spinning up 10,000 nodes and spamming, doing denial of service, dropping posts, etc?

Honestly NNTPchan is the way to go at the moment. It seems to have solved most of the relevant problems and presents a usable alternative to centralized services.

Isaiah Cruz
Isaiah Cruz

Bet you can't even post illegal content on nntpchan.

Aaron Stewart
Aaron Stewart

You can, people do, and it gets moderated away as god intended. Posting illegal shit in a public forum is brainlet tier though.

Matthew Fisher
Matthew Fisher

So you'd rather have a special site for it?

Robert Lewis
Robert Lewis

The ideal solution is socat or netcat+stunnel over i2p. That way only the sending and receiving parties are responsible for the content. Nobody wants to host your illegal shit my guy.

Levi Foster
Levi Foster

but the sending and recieving parties are safe from feds, rite?

Ryder Taylor
Ryder Taylor

dont really even care. most imageboards look like places where children can shitpost. it gets boring when you are old enough

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Jaxson Parker
Jaxson Parker

IPFS user here.
IPFS isn't censorship resistant
IPFS is only censorship resistant if it isn't used through a public gateway, like ipfs.io or cloudflare-ipfs.com.
nor anonymous
This is true; for now. Some people from the IPFS and OpenBazaar team have created a way to transport IPFS data through the Tor Network (might be outdated), and the IPFS team themselves have a guide on how to set it up yourself. [1]
Like you said, Tor is TCP only. i2p transport is on their to-do list [2], but who knows when they'll get that in.
[1] dweb-primer.ipfs.io/avenues-for-access/lessons/tor-transport.html
[2] github.com/ipfs/notes/issues/124

Julian Gray
Julian Gray

paying a deposit is not a microtransaction.

the only differentiation of users I mentioned is tiers for voting share, but that would not be visible.

Elijah Williams
Elijah Williams

100% foolproof decentralized imageboard through federation:
A "host" is a public gateway to the global imageboard network, called GIN hereafter.
A "client" is a user who connects to a host in order to browse or post in the GIN.
A "leech" (mind you, in this case it is not used despectively, as they are an integral part of the network) is a host that is not allowed to transmit posts, and instead just acts as a mere observer who mirrors a local copy of the GIN. These are people who don't want to miss anything posted to the boards, regardless of any potentially corrupt mods deleting stuff indiscriminately.
A "hotpocket" is someone who is not the original board owner or BO-appointed board volunteer of a board, but still believes his opinion to be important. This person or group of persons may then choose to offer local "moderation lists", which clients may choose to subscribe to, or not. Mind you, these people can only hide posts, not delete them.
Each host has its own copy of what it considers to be the current state of the GIN. This is known as the local GIN ledger.

The network works by free association. The resulting networks may not end up being a single GIN, but several ones. This is necessary to stop spamming nodes or illegal content nodes.
Hosts discover each other, possibly from a bootstrapping node.
Each host exposes a list of nodes it knows, their pubkey, their status (online/offline), and their relationship to them (trusted/semi-untrusted/untrusted, which describes their posting permissions). Untrusted nodes, those too new or unknown to be able to form an opinion on them, are still part of the network, as all leech nodes are Untrusted and yet they participate in it. Malicious nodes are outright unlisted.
When two hosts connect, they double check each other's pubkeys. If there is a mismatch between what one node says it's other node's pubkey and what this same node says about it's own pubkey, it is then double checked with the rest of the network. If most of the network agrees this node's pubkey is not its actual pubkey, it is then assumed the connection to that node is either being MITM, or in any other form compromised. Some other pubkey double-checking methods may be specified, like hosts freely associating themselves to an authority they trust, which doesn't necessarily have to be the same for each node following this model (and if both authorities are trustworthy, there shouldn't be any differences in the end, since their lists would be The Truth™).
Hosts manually decide (or let their respective authorities, be it a single host or a democratic aggregate, decide for them) whether a node is trustworthy or not, or if it is malicious. As a rule of thumb, if a host is known to provide antispam measures (think captcha) and their content is not usually illegal, it is trustworthy, and thus the posts it signs are added to the host's local GIN ledger; if the host does not implement antispam measures, or it does but still spams the network from time to time, it is considered semi-untrustworthy, and thus its posts are not added to the host's local GIN ledger, but are still retransmitted to other nodes just in case their relationship status differs from the local host. Messages originating from untrusted nodes are outright dropped, but their retransmissions of other node's messages are still accepted, and they are also kept informed of other posts being made in the network. Unlisted nodes are considered malicious, and thus, every single one of their messages is instantly dismissed. Hosts can implement some automated features to temporarily unlist semi-untrusted and untrusted nodes in case they go rogue and start overloading the host with bogus requests (think an overload of "retransmitted" messages where the signatures fail to verify, which certainly sounds like a DoS).

Jaxson Brooks
Jaxson Brooks

Now, onto moderation:
Boards can be created by clients, and then given the thumbs up by the host they are connecting to. The client (or the host in behalf of the client, if the host implements some password-based accounts system) then signs the creation of the board with one of his public keys. Every single moderation action performed to this board will then have to be signed with this key. Hosts may decide to keep themselves in control all the time by signing the board themselves and then setting the board owner's key as a slave key with full control permissions (thus a host may decide to terminate a board one of its clients created if the board owner goes rogue). Hosts accept boards according to the relationship status they have with said board, or perhaps with a different permission, depending on how fine grained you want it.
Every single moderation action is performed by signing the action with this key. Keep in mind posts can not be made with this key, just simple administration commands (delete post, delete board, etc).
Every host reserves the right to veto certain posts by issuing a DELETE command against any post, regardless of what the moderator thinks. This can be used to keep in check illegal content or spam. This DELETE command comes in several flavours:
<shitpost (board owners and hotpockets can issue this command as well) - the host opines this is a low quality post, and thus decides to remove it from its local GIN ledger. This action is retransmitted to everyone, but since one man's shitpost is another man's treasure, default policies specify this action must be retransmitted, but ignored. In case a host's policy specifies it wants to listen to "DELETE shitpost" messages, and the host broadcasting it is trusted, this command is then reflected on their local GIN ledger, but again, this is not the default. Hosts may choose to just offer versions of the board with shitposts and without shitposts, thus allowing the much requested "moderation lists".
<spam (board owners can issue this command as well; can't be issued by hotpockets) - automated bot spam. While board owners and mods may issue this command, it is each host's policy whether they want to listen to "DELETE spam" messages coming from non-global administrators. By default, they don't, but by default, board owners who issue this command will have it reviewed by the host's administrators, which will then be upgraded to a host-level "DELETE spam" message. If the host issuing this command is trusted, these messages will be deleted or default-hidden from the local GIN ledger.
<illegal (different behaviour depending on who issues it; hotpockets may not issue this) - In case illegal content is posted:
<1. Board owners can choose to issue a "DELETE illegal". This will instantly hide the post in the local GIN ledger of their host. The host will retransmit the message immediately to other hosts, which will, depending on local policy and relationship status with the host, proceed to do the same. These posts will be hidden for a certain amount of time (two days?) unless a trusted host issues an override command: a post can be confirmed illegal, or confirmed legal.
<2. If issued by a trusted host, the post is permanently, globally hidden in all local GIN ledgers, unless overridden by the local administrators. Unhiding a post automatically confirms a post as legal and broadcasts this decision, while definitvely deleting a post confirms it as illegal. Hosts may choose to change this policy.
<3. If there is no consensus (say, some trusted host confirms it legal, which will unhide it automatically, but later on another host confirms it legal, which would in turn hide it again), the post is hidden permanently until the local host administrators decide on it.
<4. If there is a timeout (two days without confirmation), the post is unhidden automatically, but left in the host administrators' moderation queue.
Of course, these policies may be configured on a host by host basis. These just happen to be sane defaults.
What happens if a trusted host abuses these commands? The other hosts will judge whether they want to still consider this node as trustworthy, or demote them. There is no easier moderation policies than freely choosing whether you want to trust someone or not. Leeches may choose to ignore all deletion commands and receive their GIN raw, so people who are wary of censorship will choose to go the extra mile and act as archivers (remember all posts are signed by the hosts that transmitted them, so it can be checked whether a post truly existed and was deleted, or it was fabricated), and casual clients will just get their stuff from a host they trust enough. Since the GIN is global, if their host of choice goes rogue, they can choose to go another one.

Christian Bell
Christian Bell

Why is there a separation between semi-untrusted and untrusted?
A semi-untrusted node is a node that's not personally trusted by the host administrators, but understand they don't usually post illegal content. Distributing illegal content is illegal, and thus an untrusted category has to be made to avoid accidentally distributing it. Most untrusted nodes will be leeches, and they will probably understand that, while they could attempt to upload their stuff to the network, it will be understandably dropped, as the others will have no idea whether he actually is a real human bean or a spambot.
What would happen if an attacker decided to disrupt the network by DoSing it with a thousand leeches which will receive retransmissions (which takes up bandwidth) in a single IP on different ports?
If there are too many leeches or hosts in the same IP, hosts may choose to lower the priority of these hosts. The more leeches in the same IP, the less priority they get.
Is this 100% censorship resistant?
Not really, but neither are P2P networks. Just look at the C&D warnings ISP issue when you download pirated movies. This can be mitigated by setting hidden hosts using the Tor network, or even other dank networks like I2P.
What happens to malicious hosts?
They are left outside of the GIN. Mind you, not everyone may agree on what is malicious or not, so every single host is free to associate with them or not. This will cause splits in the network, where some hosts may be completely isolated from other networks of hosts, but this is entirely intended behaviour. To put an example, two GIN networks, GIN-A and GIN-B, could exist: GIN-A is pretty similar to Zig Forums in terms of content, and while all hosts may not agree on a single local GIN ledger, most of the content is properly shared. GIN-B, on the other side, are a bunch of danknet funposters who insist on posting CP, drug trafficking or hiring hitmen; GIN-A will, maybe in its entirety, maybe not in its entirety, agree GIN-B is malicious, and thus, its posts should never reach GIN-A. GIN-B may accept GIN-A's posts, or it may think they are malicious because they consider them to be a bunch of pussies and not sikret clewb enough. GIN-A and GIN-B may be completely isolated from each other, or they may have some weak nexuses between each other that could allow for some circulation of posts. In other words:
<If GIN-A and GIN-B consider each other malicious, they may run the same software, but their posts will never reach each other's networks. This, again, is intended behaviour.
<If GIN-A doesn't trust GIN-B, but GIN-B trusts GIN-A, and if there is at least one host who considers a GIN-B host to be at the very least untrustworthy, GIN-A posts will reach GIN-B, but not the other way around. This is intended behaviour.
<Regardless of what GIN-B and GIN-A think of each other, there may be a fencesitter nexus host which considers both GIN-A and GIN-B to be trustworthy. This host will contain both GIN-A and GIN-B posts, and may in fact be able to post to both networks if any host in GIN-A and/or GIN-B consider the fencesitter to be trustworthy. However, depending on what GIN-A or GIN-B think of eachother, even if the fencesitter nexus can retransmit posts from one side to the other, they may not reach the networks at large. This, again, is intended behaviour.
What happens if a post references (either as a reply to a thread, or with a >> link) another post in an untrusted host?
Ideally, replies to threads made by untrusted hosts would be hidden to clients, whereas >> or >>> references would be correctly signaled as belonging to a post not present in the local GIN ledger due to the host's relationship status. Depending on the host, they may choose to make an external link to said external host if it is, at least, untrustworthy, to let the user judge whether he wants to visit the foreign host and witness the spam in all its glory, or stay in their host of choice.

Ian Rogers
Ian Rogers

noone cares faggot, if you were competent you could figure it out yourself. just because you start with
/pol/ here
doesn't make this a good thread

Isaiah Butler
Isaiah Butler

Using blockchains to host an imageboard is so overkill and overengineered I don't even know where to begin. We don't really need the kind of integrity a blockchain brings for an imageboard of all things; it doesn't really matter if posts are received out of order, nor it needs a single, agreed upon state of the imageboard. Having all the overhead of a blockchain would make the IB unworkable, be it by PoW, PoS, or whatever consensus method you choose. I could see the Stellar's Federated Byzantine Agreement working, but it is still too overengineered for what will essentially be a shitposting place.

Luis Johnson
Luis Johnson

Remember that when using the term "distributed" in relation to software development/engineering, it means a system or program "whose components are located on different networked computers, which communicate and coordinate their actions by passing messages to one another. The components interact with one another in order to achieve a common goal". This can either mean there are different independent peers (that each contain all of the functionality of the program with no separation of component functionality and are scheduled jobs or parts of jobs by some authority) that can communicate with each other to complete a common task or, more often up until recently, a monolithic program that is broken up into separate pieces for horizontal scaling (such as breaking up a web application into separate programs like a web server, form handler, and a static content generator with each program running on it's own machine but not able to fulfill the common goal if once piece stops functioning).
This is different than a "decentralized" application which implies a program that runs on top of a distributed system that behaves like a series of peers rather than the balkanizing of a monolithic program.
A "federated" application is what's been described often in here. A federated application is similar to a distributed one except that in a distributed application, the program must have some authority (often central but can also be multi-point) to get instructions/direction from. In a federated program, all of the "nodes" are independent and do not require each other (nor do they have some authority, possibly central, which schedules and gives out jobs) yet still contain the protocol(s) necessary to pass information between each other if need be (think of different boards being separate applications that can still function if one of the peers goes away).

Oliver Bennett
Oliver Bennett

overengineered
more like not engineered at all to be stupid enough to think blockchain is relevant for this task

Evan Nelson
Evan Nelson

It could "technically" work. But so could Turing tarpit languages, so I guess the point is null.

William Brown
William Brown

An imageboard has a finite amount of resources (network time, user attention, etc), which need to be fairly allocated. Suppose I give some resource to someone - that is, I upload an image for them, or I look at their post for them - the network should recognize my contribution by allocating me some credit. Now I want to spend the credit - by downloading something, or getting someone to look at my post. If I can spend the credit several times, then this would be unfair.

How I imagine it working:
want to download something from a peer
send download request
they send back the resource encrypted with a given public key
I sign a message containing the public key and send it to them.
they push the message to the blockchain along with the private key.
a miner verifies that the public and private keys match before pushing it to the next block.
This doesn't completely prevent DOS attacks, not sure if there's a better way, but it prevents people from getting free shit
before all that, negotiate a price for the resource. They can set the price to zero if they have free bandwidth. They can make the price negative if they want me to look at their post.
whenever I pay a positive price, I credit the person in my internal listing. If I am payed money, I debit the person.
If the ledger says they got their credit from another person, I can instead debit that person, and so on backwards through the chain.
If I follow the chain back to someone who I've both debited and credited, the two cancel out.
Once I'm relatively established, I expect the majority of my transaction to cancel with a previous transaction. If a given transaction doesn't cancel with anything, it's probably coming from a leech

This is blockchain, but it isn't an altcoin. Super peers will expect to run a negative balance with most people. That is, a new account might come along, offer to pay for a resource from an empty account, then disappear without paying it off. This is fine, because many people have spare bandwidth. However, in the case of a spam or DOS attack, only people who have developed good reputation will be able to do anything. There are other ways it benefits from not needing to be robust. You could have multiple parallel chains, without needing to worry about 51%s. You could regularly restart the chain, deleting all previous transactions, to reduce the blockchain from getting too large.

Hudson Lee
Hudson Lee

This doesn't explain why would a blockchain enhance the imageboard experience. The amount of traffic and storage (and computing power, if you want to use a PoW model with miners) a blockchain requires is insane, specially if you want to record every view and attach the required private key required to unencrypt the content. Fuck, the entire concept of paying for VIEWING is insane. Nobody will ever agree to that.

I guess your concept is more akin to what private trackers do, to keep seeding ratios positive by assigning each user their "worth" depending on how much they share, but it still has an absurd overhead cost.

Dylan Barnes
Dylan Barnes

Show a little respect dickhead. Without Hotwheel's vision, you'd be dealing with 4cuck--and 4cuck alone.

Dominic Brooks
Dominic Brooks

There is still a big potential problem with shilling and sockpuppetting, but this may simply be insurmountable and the nature of the medium.
Then i would suggest that an effective means of choosing/managing BOs and Mods is a necessity for any reasonable p2p IB design. We already have numerous IB examples where no moderation is in place, and it's basically Usenet 2.0.

Jackson Lee
Jackson Lee

I'm going to submit my post in this thread for consideration. See

Blockchain is helpful for something you want to do irrevocably and publicly. In my opinion, usage of it for exchange of resources is hopeless. I have previous suggested it may be useful to generate moderation power akin to slashdot, but I think that system could easily be compromised.

Instead, please focus on the second segment of the post regarding a federated peer-to-peer network.
Blockchain would be useful for providing public moderation logs so users can see what is explicitly no longer being provided and clients can filter posts that are no longer supposed to be seeded.

Likewise, see my post regarding how anyone could host a node if bandwidth costs were minimized and content was transferred solely between peers. If anyone can host a "tracker" and then provide content for peers and sync with others, then a federation could form. Threads could stay mostly synced but posts on different nodes for the same board might not exist on every node. Users can visit a node with the moderation level they like. Since the nodes determine what gets seeded, they can minimize the spread. They don't need to mirror ever post from every other node immediately or at all.
Your viewing experience could be down to what node you set as your main node and which other nodes they share an edge with. The further you are on the chain from a given post the less likely it is for it to appear.

Nodes allowing too much spam or shitposts can just be blocked from sending. Send/Receive is not necessarily bidirectional.

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Adam Morales
Adam Morales

Blockchain would be useful for providing public moderation logs so users can see what is explicitly no longer being provided and clients can filter posts that are no longer supposed to be seeded.
Do you really, really need globally synchronized, unalterable moderation logs? Requiring each moderation operation to be signed by the issuer could be enough of a proof of moderation corruption for watchful whistleblowers that eavesdroped on the entire network. This would not easily protect against local moderation, such as posts not being shared by the node, but neither would the blockchain method if the content is hosted outside of the blockchain. Moderators could modify their own moderation logs, yes, but if they broadcast said deletion, people listening on the network's traffic would pick up.

David Lee
David Lee

This doesn't explain why would a blockchain enhance the imageboard experience.
Protection from DOSing and spam. These are basically the reason why the vast majority of imageboards, and websites really, are centralized: because centralization makes it easier to deal with attackers.
Case in point: 8ch will randomly take down the tor proxy sometimes, presumably because of abuse this post brought to you from a clearnet browser
specially if you want to record every view
you could download threads or even boards at a time, to keep the blockchain traffic light.
the entire concept of paying for VIEWING is insane
You wouldn't pay for viewing, mostly. Peers could agree to hand out posts for free and they could let people run a tab. You would expend credit primarily when an attack of some sort was ongoing. Even then, there would be ways of generating credit without paying real money.

Jackson Scott
Jackson Scott

Yes.
Signing is optional and can be "revocable".
If you need to publish it to an open moderation log for the deletion to take effect then you have no choice but to be public about your actions and no ability to deny that the action was taken.
It's also an easy way to synchronize every client on that node.

Any system must have a built-in distrust for whoever has any moderation power and must curb that power.

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Aaron Smith
Aaron Smith

I dunno the benefits or detriment of a universal SSID, but I figured I'd throw it in there as a community identifier. If it significantly decreases anonymity, imagine the same image without it.

I like the key system, maybe even better with a random key generator in every node.

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Brandon Campbell
Brandon Campbell

Signing is optional
It's not if the other hosts require the signature to reflect the change in their mirrors. A point could be made that a "censorship friendly" fork of the system could exist, that could accept unsigned operations, but then again, so could other hosts conspire through side channels with the blockchain system.
"revocable"
Once something has been signed by you, it has been signed by you. This is the entire raison d'être of OTR messaging models. Something signed with your public key can be redistributed and checked cryptographically by anyone using your public key.
If you need to publish it to an open moderation log for the deletion to take effect then you have no choice but to be public about your actions and no ability to deny that the action was taken.
If you want to communicate to other hosts that you want them to delete something, there is no way around that but telling them to do so. They may comply, or they may not. If a "watchdog node" receives such a request, they may choose to comply or not, or double check said request to know whether it was legitimate. The censoring node may choose to shadowban a post without telling anyone, but it could do so as well under the blockchain model.

The only advantages of chosing blockchain over more volatile solutions are:
The moderation log is permanent and historic. This could allow anyone to analyze it regardless of when they joined, but when the content itself is volatile, it would be impossible to make a verdict based only on metadata, so it is kind of pointless to know a post was deleted one year ago when said post no longer exists anywhere. It would work if the content was indeed published to the blockchain, but then you have the problem of not being able to actually delete the posts. Enjoy your CP.
It does not require a watchdog node keeping tabs on all mod operations being performed since all nodes would be watchdog nodes by virtue of having to work with a blockchain. Said blockchain could be Sybiled with ease, though, so you still need watchdog nodes. You only need a single trustworthy watchdog node to prove a mod operation to everyone, so both systems more or less have the same requirements.
If you want to use blockchain, go balls to the wall and use it for everything, but beware of the fuckhueg overhead (mining infrastructure and/or pay-for-post) you need for glorified shitposting. It would put the 10bux brigade to shame.

Jose Rogers
Jose Rogers

what is 08 chan

Eli Russell
Eli Russell

Are you sure about this? The stuff used in cryptocurrency is deliberately engineered to promote scarcity through requiring huge computational resources. If we just wanted to create a cryptographically signed record of all board activity, it doesn't need to be deliberately hard to calculate. Just securely encrypted enough to present forgery.

Also, as somebody said, it might be possible to make the blocks ephemeral - just drop the block associated with a thread when it hits 1000 posts like on a traditional board, or drop a board's record every million posts, or something. The board history would still be archived all over the place, but only the most recent history need be active.

I do think paying for viewing or posting is insane and dooms any such system, but what if "payments" were only required of the federated hosts of the board system? If these were server operators, and the payments were reasonable (for example, scaled to what a mid-tier dedicated server's CPU or GPU could calculate on the fly), it might be more reasonable. The nodes of the network might have to make computational payments to distribute their messages, but the end users would be insulated from this unless they ran their own node.

Noah Hernandez
Noah Hernandez

I had a discussion about a DAG based p2p imageboard in the IPFS thread a month ago. Here are my posts if anyone wants to discuss more.

Brody Lee
Brody Lee

The thread from mentions [email protected] I think a discussion of how e-hentai works is instructive, especially since any imageboard will want to be able to host porn. On e-hentai you have a certain "image limit", starting at 5k, decreasing for each image view and replenishing naturally at ~5 per minute. A user can increase their image limit by paying "GP". Running [email protected] is one way to gain GP; for each image you share with someone you get a GP back. You can also pay real money for GP, but this does not count as paying to view; most people will be able to view fine without paying money, nor even running [email protected]

The reason this is important is because most p2p systems have the problem that random shit will disappear, and no one online will have pinned it, or be seeding it, or whatever. This makes the network really fucking annoying to explore. We want someone who hosts a rare file to be rewarded for that, so that more people do it. The reward should naturally come in the form of others hosting more rare files, promoting a culture of sharing.

A sticking point is that cryptocurrencies inevitably become very expensive, then miners move in and make it impossible for anyone else to get coins, then getting your transactions added to blocks becomes prohibitively expensive. We can solve this easily: since speculators are what drive up the price, just kick out the speculators by resetting the blockchain at regular (but random) intervals. This makes the currency completely worthless for anything but shitposting, and therefore it will remain possible to mine it on your home PC.

Henry Gray
Henry Gray

All blockchain systems are retarded
agreed. Anything that requires the users to act as individual servers to host anything is doomed to fail.

Nolan Rivera
Nolan Rivera

Wow based.
hey fred, is hachi still alive

Adam Diaz
Adam Diaz

tor
central point auth
needs the devs
keeps on patching the sinking shipshow because it's fucking shit
soros can literally halt the entire project
add
net neutrality
censored and surveilled internet (china korea saudi)
censoring decensor platforms
gov can just censor tor altogether when relevant
actually happening right now
gov can just censor internet altogether like OpEgypt because ISPs are sellout
cut the dsl/fiber lines and mass riots burning base stations
internet is a sinking ship anyways. what we need to do is start from the hardware level.
pick one -> 802.11a/b/g/n/s/ac/ax/ad (best candidate, fuck 5G) -> WISP networks -> anonymous platforms/browsers that have no capability of fingerprinting -> easily set up yourself. Every phone has wifi, it's wire-less so less risk of cut, cheaper than wires that need repair when cut/stolen and invisible.
librecmc/openwrt
It doesn't matter if it's some PHP server you're hosting as long as it works and is unkillable.
Your only problem is when gov bans 2.4/5.8Ghz but good luck with that.
(it has one flaw though, if you know what it is we're like-minded :D)

Kayden Perry
Kayden Perry

a way to transport IPFS data through the Tor Network
Please consult the tor team before doing this.

Hudson Jenkins
Hudson Jenkins

4MB flash
hahaha lol
not mt76xx with 128MB RAM
Your device won't even handle up to 8 mesh clients.

Aaron Hill
Aaron Hill

Based and blackedpilled

Joseph Perez
Joseph Perez

I wonder is there way to tunnel it using i2p I think you should be able to It probably will be slow as fuck though Even if you could I mean as long as you know the port numbers at you need to open through your fire wall in order to get IPFS to work i mean i2p Will Tunnel anything you pretty much point it at

Noah Phillips
Noah Phillips

This is why perhaps upgrading it with some kinda usb connection I thought may be a better idea. You can literally plug and play an imageboard. Or, alternatively, the board can be a program, and the router can simply be upgraded with security firmware. Some..serpent cipher or sumn.. I dunno. If it's possible, why not?

that ham radio internet works using firmware on linksys and ubiquity devices, it's possible to..do something. That said, I hope such a project is used for good.

Jayden Morgan
Jayden Morgan

ask where the ethernet jack is.
A great way to receive TEMPEST and WEEPING ANGEL

Connor Moore
Connor Moore

We can stop running away if they don't know who we are.
This is why cryptography and all these technologies which attempt to disconnect an IP address from the identity of the person behind it is so great.

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Ayden Green
Ayden Green

I think they're fine with it, considering they're fine with ZeroNet Tor access. Not too sure I could find a source though.

Levi Russell
Levi Russell

CP
Ensure users only share threads they have actually viewed, in the state they have viewed them, and also give them the ability to hide threads and posts, preventing them from being shared from their system even after viewing.
Would slow the system down a lot, but it'd at least prevent compromised mods ruining it.

How exactly are you going to do a real decentralized imageboard without the users acting as servers?
Anything else can easily be shut down because it only has a handful of points of failure.

Sebastian Brown
Sebastian Brown

It's the difference between requiring and allowing. If you allow it, like say TPB does, then you'll have the hydra affect. If you require it, then no one will bother using your service or submitting any posts to it.

Carter Allen
Carter Allen

All this shit about "no central authority" is retarded. The idea of a decentralized imageboard is being plagued by this idea that there cannot be moderation while still maintaining free speech. You have to be able to delete something across the network, otherwise, nobody is going to want to use the software because of the legal ramifications. Running an NNTPChan node is very dangerous for many people because of this.
Here's the ideal setup:

You have 3 nodes, X, Y, and Z.

X, Y, and Z are synchronized: all posts between them are mirrored to the other sites. This means that if one host is seized, a functional copy of the data exists somewhere else, eliminating the single point of failure that HW complains about. Now here's where it gets tricky: illegal content.

Illegal content has always existed and will always exist to some extent on imageboards. Not only should posts be synced between hosts, but banlists and hashbans should too. Hashban mirroring is already in place across most FoolFukka imageboard archivers. They developed an extension for this purpose. github.com/pleebe/foolfuuka-plugin-intel-share

In my opinion, it should look like this:

1) Nodes can ban people, and they can also subscribe to ban lists and delete lists by other server operators if they wish. Not required. If a host is sending you a bunch of illegal content or they refuse to delete what you delete, you can unlink from them. This means there will be various federations: Some federations will have tight rules for peering, requiring you to filter/delete content that is illegal in their region. Other nodes might choose to federate exclusively through tor and skirt the lines of what's legal and what's not. A very good example of this is toot.cafe VS. GNU Social. toot.cafe/about/more#blocked-instances
2) You can distribute bans, and message delete orders. You can also choose to reject them.
3) Users can download a copy of an imageboard from any node at any time, and rehost the content, like bittorrent. They can then merge the data with other federations (with admin approval) etc.

With this system, you can have 3 guys (or more) mirroring each other, ensuring data integrity, privacy, and more. You can have multiple federations which serve different functions. It's up to the people who make the federations as to how they want to moderate them.

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William Campbell
William Campbell

You have to be able to delete something across the network
Running an NNTPChan node is very dangerous for many people because of this.
Bullshit. Source?
You delete illegal shit from your node and you're fine.

NNTPchan would work well if there was a host who isn't an NSA shill or controlled opposition. Maybe there is one now, no idea.

Aaron Wilson
Aaron Wilson

Illegal content has always existed and will always exist to some extent on imageboards.
Imageboards don't even count as they're widely federated.
Tumblr had illegal content and is what caused it to ban nsfw, snapchat, other chat platforms there's plenty of it especially asian chat platforms for young people (with the exception of wechat). Most people share nudes and are exhibitionists from grooming and msm programming.
Facebook had a cp group that only got busted late last year, plenty of wangblows-exclusive p2p does it too and they couldn't stop them. There's also plenty of illegal content on clearnet free hosting and if there's anyone with at least FBI-clearance they'll even agree with everything that I said.

Christopher Sanchez
Christopher Sanchez

First of all, both linksys and ubiquity run on proprietary firmware and everyone knows that these can literally phone to their masters and are remotely accessible because (0) it already happened, and malevolent hackers could even use the same trick (1) if you don't hack it, you don't own it (2) firmware is crap.
The plus side is they have GOOD signal sensitivity and TX but the negative side is it's proprietary/locked down and expensive spyware. Anything post 2011 have spyware.
ham radio
needs license
fcc slams door and arrests you for no reason even if you have license

Scalability isn't the problem. The good hardware already exist, the firmware must be free, and finally the 'how'.
The problem is how you configure your network as wireless one is really shitty unless you use wpa enterprise grade sec but shared public/private networks tend to have many flaws.
Your last problem would be your network being taken down by even the most skid of DDoS attack or the mossad jamming van.
Distance isn't even a problem since a 5dBi can reach up to a kilometer at the right elevation and parabolic reflector and if you're dealing with reliability of connection then get registered with the gov and increase it to hazard radiated power like what they do with every cell towers everywhere.

That said, I hope such a project is used for good.
This is not about good or bad, it is whether it does the job or it's a fucking sellout. What's the point of researching encryption when you'll just put backdoors in there that unlocks encryption with a recovery DVD? (looking at you, bitlocker) Sure these can have evil use cases like when encryption is used for illegal content but that's just how it's used by the 'evil one' and unrelated in every way to encryption ever. Like bitcoin, no one gives a shit if the drug dealers use them, people use money too for evil but in the end it doesn't matter and the problem won't just vanish if you ban weapons or put death penalty as punishment all over the globe. No law is gonna stop someone who decided then and there to break the law unless they have microchip implants and realtime 'psycho-pass' tech.
If you're going to dilly-dally about what's good or bad just support marxism and eventually become a commie, later implement a technocratic authoritarian surveillance state and put everything that doesn't align with your ideology in the camps.

Sebastian Hill
Sebastian Hill

It isn't radio I was proposing, user. And the firmware was developed by average people to replace the original firmware.

See here.

Broadband-Hamnet™ is a network, it is not application software. It is a special firmware build that transforms consumer wireless gear to a specialized ham radio function. It can use application software to transport your data from place to place, but you must provide the application software just like you do at your home or office.

broadband-hamnet.org/just-starting-read-this.html

Justin Wood
Justin Wood

and wow user, you really went far just to counter my "used for good" statement.

Funny enough, I was born in Cuba, so I actually experienced Communism first hand, not a fan.

Just because good intentions are an ideal goal, doesn't mean I'm naive about this sort of thing. Even hamnet people streamed playboy via mesh.

You know the more I acknowledge this thread, the more I begin to think -Why aren't you people on Fopnu?

Revert to actual p2p UI > lay low > less media attention due to less traffic > ??? > Profit.

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Ayden Moore
Ayden Moore

pic of whore with beat up toes
kike nonsense
Nobody worth having is ever going to participate in a board with microtransactions.
Things are changing nigger. That's only the answer for clearnet. But clearnet is quickly being converged to transniggernet and if the only solution is to pay for access it'll happen.
Dumb nigger you posted a cat pic. Being a faggot means your opinion is worthless.

Wyatt Cooper
Wyatt Cooper

nigger
nigger
faggot
kike
Your mum doesn't let you swear at home so you come here? Say something substantive alongside your no-no words.

Henry Mitchell
Henry Mitchell

Nntpchan already fucking exists:
github.com/majestrate/nntpchan

Zachary Cook
Zachary Cook

Based schizoposter

Jack Anderson
Jack Anderson

To the /oven/index.html you go
You sound like a glow in the dark, fag. Microtransactions are worse than subscriptions (unless you are talking storage)

John Rodriguez
John Rodriguez

/pol/ here. Genuinely concerned about the future of this place.
You're getting the future you chose by being a sub-40-IQ bag of shit: oblivion

:^)

Parker Hill
Parker Hill

Gonna throw this in here as an option.

supersimpleserver.com/

Robert Ward
Robert Ward

ayyy someone has the same idea as me.

might have to put off my graphics software framework and work on that.

Adam Flores
Adam Flores

<he doesn't know

Logan Gomez
Logan Gomez

Do you like lain?

Brody Mitchell
Brody Mitchell

that image
How grotesque.

Ethan Collins
Ethan Collins

a sub-40-IQ bag of shit
<argues against the people saying sub-40-IQ bags of shit shouldn't be treated like people by calling them low-IQ and saying they deserve death
Man, you losers sure do get assmad. ;D

Jaxson Howard
Jaxson Howard

I have been reading a bit about freenet and I think if somebody were to make a decentralized imageboard they should use freenet first as a proof of concept. It's an infrastructure that works an it's been heresince 2001 you also have several nodes for your use. Blockchain based imageboard on the other hand sounds ridiculous because the point of imageboards is that things shouldnt be permament and besides, who the fuck would want to synchronize a huge blockchain every time they make a post? It would be like usenet where you require server rooms to hold the content. It's in no way a sustainable censor-resistant internet infrastructure, that shit will flop like usenet.

Either way, freenet already has filters supported for images and mp4 so technically an imageboard is feasibly to implement on freenet. After that you can work on extending the network to make it even more censor-resitant.

Nathaniel Gonzalez
Nathaniel Gonzalez

You have to be able to delete something across the network
No, you don't.
Not only should posts be synced between hosts, but banlists and hashbans should too
This should be optional.
Nodes can ban people, and they can also subscribe to ban lists and delete lists by other server operators if they wish. Not required. If a host is sending you a bunch of illegal content or they refuse to delete what you delete, you can unlink from them.
Sounds like a waste of resources because changing your identity is effortless and users shouldn't be trackable anyways.

Jason Smith
Jason Smith

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Carson Cooper
Carson Cooper

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES

Lincoln Foster
Lincoln Foster

This is a good thing.

Caleb Collins
Caleb Collins

This is a Q Boomer psy-ops.

Xavier Green
Xavier Green

Indeed.

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