Can anybody suggest some replacements to Linux's native virtual terminal? Before you yell "bloat", "botnet", or even "sin", know that Linux's own terminal is essentially a terminal emulator in itself (instead of sending the text to a device, it just sends the text to itself), so the only real difference between it and a replacement is basically whether it runs in kernelspace or userspace (as far as I'm aware, there are no kernel modules which replace the VT. Something like that would interest me though). Anyway, here's a list of ones that I know of, but I don't really know which one of them is best. Do any of you guys use these ones?
zhcon.sourceforge.net/ - Old, unfinished software which only implemented UTF-8 support in its last version. Not really a candidate, but it's included just to make this list comprehensive. jfbterm.osdn.jp/ - Even older than the last one. Doesn't explicitly mention UTF-8 support, but I've heard people mention it here and there, so it probably has it. github.com/uobikiemukot/yaft - This one could be pretty good, if it supports obscure stuff like sixels. I like to screw around with a lot of dumb shit. repo.or.cz/fbpad.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/README - Seems to have some kind of integrated termux bullshit. freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/kmscon/ - Looks alright, but I'm skeptical of any software produced by freedesktop. Looks like the idea of it is to be more of an expansion to the native terminal, than a replacement if that means anything. code.google.com/archive/p/fbterm/ - I've heard of this one often. Looks like it has more of that multiplexing stuff.
Pictured is zhcon. I'm not a chink, but I find this image kind of "aesthetic", if you guys are into that.
I think there are very few of them, if any. I personally know only about kmscon. The thing with them really: a) If people use console in Linux, the kernel VT suits their needs the best, because it is usually used when you need a simple reliable VT b) If people want to customize their loonix VT experience, they usually want to do it in X c) While terminal development isn't completely dead, it is dead for the most part; it is not the 80s anymore dude, and not even the 90s
Dylan Reyes
ive used kmscon and it's literally useless. not that i see any reason to switch out the piece of shit concept that is a VT with a different piece of shit... no, it doesn't send text anywhere. there is no fundamental operation called "sending" like you seem to think. it literally just reads from the input layer and writes pixels to the framebuffer
James Watson
what does this mean? All UNIX shit still revolves around the terminal. Retard tools like git still metacharacter laced garbage for the terminal to interpret. People are still making shitty terminal emulators to this day and there is no one good one even for a popular OS like Linux (they're all slow and/or buggy)
Aaron Turner
That means UNIX developers gonna develop their closed products for their shit? I dunno, I don't have much experience with actual commercial UNIX. Linux kernel console is just there and people don't seem to need anything else. And I dunno what bugs you're talking about, if it is about colors, they are fucking irrelevant as fuck.
Nicholas Gonzalez
I found myself in a similar situation with old shit, like a fucking ancient rPi (I didn't buy it) and a shitty 10-year-old netbook. Wanted to use the tty with these things because they're unbelievably underpowered but it just doesn't cut it for me. There's no good substitute that allows you to write chingchong shit that also didn't mess with some ncurses applications. In the end, mostly ssh into the pi nowadays, and ended up using Emacs as a window manager for X. It's not ideal; despite what Emacsniggers might have you believe, the program is super wonky, specially when it has to handle X windows as buffers, but at the very least I can ERP in Nipponese with my bf because Unicode "just werks", as well as handling any general terminal applications I need it to. While i can understand that you might want to just use the tty and avoid the X bloat, in practice it's just easier to accept the bloat and just run something like st or whatever as your 'window manager'.
That one showed the most promise but I never got it working. It broke shit like mps-youtube and didn't run Emacs. I could've fiddled with the term-name setting in the conf.h but at that point it was just easier to bite the X bullet.
Connor Brooks
What benefit would you gain from replacing the terminal? What's the exact "problem" you're trying to solve?
If you want to load different fonts into your terminal or rice tmux or screen you can do that too.
David Bennett
Virtualbox on Ubuntu ltsb
Matthew Perry
Oops I think I’m on the wrong forum
Cooper Morales
I want to develop "DOS-like" software for the Linux terminal. There's no very practical reason I'm doing it, just novelty.
Also, I want to see how far you can get with graphics without opening a graphics server, that is, just by exploiting features of the terminal. Linux's base terminal isn't nearly as sophisticated (read: standards-incompliant bloat that's kind of cool) as DOS' though, so first of all, I want to develop software that "would" work if Linux had a crazier terminal, and then look into actually replacing it later.
For example, userspace programs in DOS are able to change the font whenever they want, and many classic tile based games, rather than opting to use a graphics driver, just built monochrome tiles into the font itself. Here's one example of something like that, a font designed for nethack: www.pvv.org/~roarl/nethack/nethack.html
Because of the weird "Shift" characters it stole from Baudot code, UTF-8 has 2,147,483,648 codepoints rather than ASCII's 256. Replace unreserved emoji-to-be like :black_gay_couple: with a small 16x8 monochrome image of a sword, and just think of the crazy shenanigans you can get up to. And when you start doing extra bullshit like MML music sequences through escape codes, or sixels, the possibilities for making very bad and evil programs are endless.
This software looks pretty interesting. It only works on top of Window's graphics server though, so it's kind of missing the point. There's plenty of Linux alternatives if that's the kind of thing you're looking for.
People here might be interested to hear about "Qodem" (qodem.sourceforge.net/), it describes itself as a qmodem reimplementation, but to describe what that actually means, it's basically a shell extension that acts as a compatability layer/emulator for DOS' magical ANSI codes. Of course, there's still the 256 limit with the Linux VT, but it maps all the unicode essential for old CP437 art and even the Microsoft's MML escape codes (artscene.textfiles.com/ansimusic/information/ansimtech.txt).
Josiah Flores
(to be clear, when I say "shell extension", I mean that it acts as a shell that runs under bash/tcsh/fish/whatever)
Ryder Turner
inb4 Unix hating LISP fag
Cameron Russell
UNIX terminals suck at everything. They suck at interfaces so you need ncurses, they suck at graphics so you need X11 and X11 virtual terminals to emulate your virtual terminal, they suck at usability and scripting so you need Perl and Emacs, and they suck at being a terminal so you need an IBM 3270. Wake up weenies, we live in a society where UNIX sucks and is no longer relevant. It's time to move on to a real computer with a real operating system written by real programmers in a real programming language that doesn't suck. I can't do it alone but through my wisdom and experience you can free yourselves from UNIX brain damage and create the operating system the world needs right now. Take , for example. This young sage was fed up with UNIX's brain dead metacharacter bullshit and invented an entirely new console syntax that forever eliminates all UNIX's console string errors. I have taken the liberty of quoting him for your edification: Here's an idea that a 5 year old would have thought of if he didn't get converted to UNIX religion at birth:given some non-UNIX OS, the console has some command typed in it, like:[get video] [ ]the GUI puts boxes around shit to mark two different strings. yes strings can have spaces in this system, and we don't need to fuck with quotesyou click on the second boxit goes into edit modeyou hit ctrl+v to paste a link you copied from the web browseryou hit enterit exits edit modealso, since this is a non-gay shell and non-gay OS, you can't put $ or some stupid metacharacter in the string and fuck up your console. no matter what is in the string, it's just a string See that? That's exactly the kind of genius I set out to inspire on this board and with the moderation's help I and my proteges are well on my way to achieving what no one has ever done since the 1980s: creating an operating system that doesn't suck.
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Isaac Reed
Outstanding move
Luke Lee
I hate to disappoint you but that's not the real lispfag. It's probably samefagging.
Ayden Hill
You really want direct frame buffer access. Terminals are meant for spraying text onto a screen. If you want to be my hero, as an experiment you should port Firefox to direct frame buffer. It used to work in the framebuffer eons ago.
Jeremiah White
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
Benjamin King
HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES
Jaxon Reed
Whatcha sliding Chaim?
Brayden Harris
Chaim, I see you.
Henry Sanders
I love eating tacos. Why do you guys want to kill the Mexicans?
