People like The frankfurt school, foucault, baudrillard, existencialism mark fisher etc. are much more important in the current context, that is the status of the working class as consumers, and not so much as exploited workers like in the 19th century. You should all pay less attention to old marxist literature once you got a solid socialist base (knowing concept liek dialectic materialism, alienation, fetichization, knowing aboutn anarchism, history of socialism, basic economic functioning…) and start directly with these 20th century authors, which make the most solid of the currents critiques and, more importantly, make you grow as an individual, purging yourself from capitalist realist mindset.
Theory priority
Joseph Sanchez
Parker Phillips
Theory without a strong empirical basis is worthless anyway.
Brandon Turner
what do you mean by this, id like you to elaborate more than just a sentence
Ryder James
Mark Fisher is garbage he had zero useful contributions and is only liked because he committed suicide
Jonathan Turner
mark fisher was a hack and this post is gibberish
Brandon Long
Leo Garcia
Owen Green
Indeed, with the contradictions of capitalism on full display, the ruling class needs all the obsucurantist intellectual masturbation that it can get in order to divert attention from class conflict. Case in point:
Keep up the good, patriotic work, OP!
Jace Gomez
Hey guys did you know that Marx's unfinished project that was distorted by both its editors and translators has the perfect description of the unchanging nature of capitalism which will never become obsolete, needs no errata and is flawless in every possible way?
Daniel Hall
user i dont think i expect too much when i ask for an argument, some kind of serious debate for once, not a meme bullshit to try make fun of me, what the hell do you think is this, some kind of socialist kindergarten? well, you could say it is, but thats only because of ignorant posts like you made, so stop or at least lurk moar.
what a solid critique of a recognized author, gj.
would you please define what is or isnt a useful contribution?
how can you expect to fight a system without a deep analysis of it?
you seem to make a case for more focus on class conciousness (correct me if im wrong), but how are we going to build it up without deeply analyzing how its growth is surpressed like mark fisher and the frankfurt school did?
and this is just an example, the revolution will not be given to you in a simple way, its not as simple as going in the streets and shouting the communist manifesto to a crowd of people, an established system cant be dismantled this easely, even if we started a revolution right now, everybody would keep their capitalist mindset and any attempt of an alternative system would fail. Things are not as simple as you are making them look like.
i dont understand how that sentence you quoted from me can be defined as patriotic
Isaiah Jenkins
sorry user i really didnt understand what your point is, if you really want to you could be more clear
Michael Adams
sorry are we talking about the same guy here, im talking about the one who's most known for plagiarising gramsci and trying to get people to take rusell brand seriously
Angel Miller
The working class still is exploited workers, our status as consumers has had little effect on our relationship to production.
The majority of self-described socialists have a vulgar understanding of materialism and alienation and fetishization, have a meme tier understanding of anarchism that lacks primary sources, have little knowledge of history besides sucking off their preferred historical figures, and think capitalism where the state/workers control production is fine and dandy. By your logic most self-described socialists should be reading a lot more of old literature before moving on to the 20th century because they know fuck all.
Mark Fisher is best known for killing himself and giving brainlets like muke credit for having read a real book, Frankfurt School were bourgeoisie academics more concerned with masturbatory critique than class struggle, and the other are breddy gud but particularly important to class struggle. By all means read them if you have the time because some have interesting things to say, but claiming these thinkers are especially important for the workers' movement is absurd.
Parker Rodriguez
...
Luis Price
We already have deep analyses of capitalism. We do not need a deep "analysis" of the cultural issuance thereof which are themselves not scientific subjects.
Jackson Peterson
Adorno was the least faggy of the Frankfurt School. most of the Frankfurt School were elitists like we see in hipsters today that gentrify neighborhoods. nothing good will come out of this.
Ryder Cooper
The absolute state of Zig Forums.
Jose Bennett
I didnt claim that workers arent exploited anymore, but its not like in 19th century england when they worked 12 hours a day, cant eat shit, live in the factory or in some piece of shit suburb and has other 6 kids 3 of which are male and also.work in some factory.
At least in europe which is where i live, being an industrial worker today is almost a privilege, having a safe job for an indetermined amount of time. Material relations have changed, culture has changed too. This is where these people come in action. Why do you think class conciousness is less prevalent today than 100 years ago when most of the workers where illiterate and didnt have an education? Its all about thos.new consumer culture, how it affects the culture class. I can surely have s debate over the validity or importance of thos authors, but to say that material conditions have not changed is just denieng reality.
I said a solid base. Many of those concepts are rationalizing human beings too much anyway.
Listen user if you are going to make a critique of something you cant just say "this is x" you say frankfurt school are mostly concerned with mansturbatory critique but you fail to point out how or why they are, you say as a truism.
How did mark fisher plagiarised gramsci? I didnt read the latter
What the fuck is this
Are we talking about the same frankfurt school?
John Clark
How it affects the working class*
Say it as a*
Cooper Butler
Exploitation doesn't mean you must be close to death. Exploitation is the capitalists and landlords taking from the working class. You can even have increased relative immiseration of the working class (shrinking percentage of the total wealth pie) while the living standard of the working class goes up (if the total wealth pie grows quickly enough).
u can haz liek aboutn kill yourself.
Colton Richardson
wrong
well there's your problem, gramsci's whole thing was that the notion of the way things are being just "common sense" is the biggest obstacle to socialism
Hudson Mitchell
It´s because off these ☘️intelectuals☘️ that people can¨t say nigger anymore.
Daniel Rivera
Now this is a hot take.
They have, but not in such a way that the proletariat, lumpenproletariat, and the emerging precariat relate drastically different to production.
The failures of the left at organization and the propaganda after certain revolutions solidifying capitalism as the only possible course. The workers will be far more revolutionary than most leftist activists if a revolution were to occur.
Which by and large they do not have.
We're on a chan bucko, I'm not going to make a detailed critique of the Frankfurt School or Mark Fisher because I don't have the time and even if I did I'd spend it on more interesting things than an argument on a chinese frog racing forum.