Linux Smartphone General

A kernel Apple doesn’t use.
Do you even know what XNU is?

oh huh

oh huh

Oh, fine, it has parts of *BSDs and other systems. And yes, I know what is mach, it's a kernel. And iOS not the same as macos, they're both based on darwin on XNU kernel, but anyway iOS uses parts of operating systems that weren't designed to run on mobile devices.

Then don't use the driver
There is nothing wrong with systemd. You can also just switch to a distro which doesn't have it if you don't want it.

This one is 50$
wiki.zerophone.org/index.php/Main_Page

is it really so hard to make a non proprietary modem? isnt it a radio(sends and receives signals at some frequency) and there are many other radio technologies that are not proprietary

Why would I buy a phone without the ability to make a call and send sms?
Everything is wrong about systemd.
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
Show me a GNU/Linux distro without systemd. As far as I know there is Ubuntu Touch, but it uses systemd too.

there's a list on the very wiki you posted lmao
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

That article fails to understand that systemd is not just an init system. The init system is just one of systemd's sub projects. Systemd is meant to make Linux into an operating system minus a user interface.

that's so fucking badass dude

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Jesus fuck. The thing is slow already and they're recommending a language 100 times slower than C++.

I mean a MOBILE GNU/Linux distro, because this is "Linux Smartphone General" thread. Now find me a MOBILE distribution without systemd.

Can't you just take whatever distro you want and put a mobile UI on top of it? There is already KDE Plasma Mobile and probably others as well, so the software is there.
plasma-mobile.org/

Stop being autistic dude, when you havent even tried or bought it nigger.

There is a relatively easy solution: install an Android fork like LineageOS. They usually don't (and legally can't) include Google apps, you have to go out of your way for that. No Google apps means no sending data to Google.

You don't want to run DWM as your phone's window manager?

Since you mentioned the thread title, have a look at the OP content. Postmarket OS (albeit still in production) is based on Alpine Linux!

Linux is the kernel

isn't andriod already using linux?
I do believe in this situation you mean gnu/linux smartphone ;^)

and I do believe that in this situation you need to shut the fuck up and do research before trying to correct people.
I did not say GNU/Linux because I did not mean GNU/Linux. PostmarketOS uses musl libc and busybox instead of glibc and Coreutils. Those GNU tools are not the best choice for a mobile environment.
Android does use a modified version of the Linux kernel so it is valid to call it a (non-GNU) Linux operating system, although many also argue that it is far enough removed that the term is misleading (arguments like major software incompatibility between Android and most Linux distros and the non-standard kernel).
On the other hand, PureOS and PostmarketOS intend to run the mainline Linux kernel, making them certainly valid to call Linux OSs, GNU is not a necessity here.

Now that you are finished mindlessly spouting a long-expired /g/ meme, let's talk about non-Android Linux operating systems intended for mobile devices!

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I always assumed that Android was the major OS for Linux on the mobile device. There exists GNU/Linux systems for mobile devices but these numbers are a tiny portion of mobile devices that make use of Linux.

What do you mean by that? Isn't a modified Linux still a Linux? If Linux was an OS alone shouldn't a modified version of Linux be called a Linux distribution?
PureOS calls itself GNU/Linux, not Linux and GNU is a necessity here, because it is unjust to call the operating system after a kernel that was added to it. GNU project was started in 1984, Linux in 1991. GNU was almost complete - it lacked only the kernel - the Hurd which was and still is in development. By calling the whole system Linux, you ignore the history and efforts of GNU developers. We don't name operating systems after it's kernel, sorry.
Calling the system Linux is a normie, /g/ tier meme, driven by ignorance and lack of knowledge. Your definition of "Linux operating system" is strange - Linux, but not Android, Linux, but not GNU/Linux. The year of Linux the kernel is now.

Here are ours arguments, show yours. Or is it just a "long-expired /g/ meme".
gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html
gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

The radio aspect itself is simple as fuck, the difficult part is the sophisticated modulation techniques used to cram high bit-rates into the smallest possible use of radio bandwidth. It's implemented in highly proprietary custom silicon, the challenge is akin to creating a small microprocessor, which is why there are only a small number of OEM manufacturers of 4G modems in the world.

OTOH, while a practical fully open solution for a smartphone may not quite be in reach, the amount of processing power available on laptops these days makes SDR implementation of 3G/4G modems quite doable. Some people have tinkered with USB3 to VGA adaptors with interesting results:

hackaday.com/2018/04/23/spoofing-cell-networks-with-a-usb-to-vga-adapter/

who the fuck text messages in 2020?
u a grandpa bitch?

As stated before, it's debatable. It is modified enough that the term is misleading, so many choose to categorize it as different.
linuxhint.com/is-android-linux/
Yes, because PureOS is a GNU/Linux distribution.
PostmarketOS is not a GNU/Linux distribution.
GNU/Linux distributions are a subset of Linux distributions. The GNU components of GNU/Linux are suboptimal for embedded solutions, so non-GNU components are used instead.
If an OS was made with the Hurd kernel, I wouldn't go around telling you it's GNU/Linux, because the Linux component is replaced. So when the GNU tools are replaced with more suitable programs like musl and busybox and KDE, it's not a GNU/Linux distribution. Alpine Linux is not GNU/Linux. OpenWRT is not GNU/Linux. Tiny Core Linux is not GNU/Linux.
This thread is not exclusively aimed at GNU/Linux distributions, because GNU tools are better for desktop users.
It would be incorrect for me to title this thread with the words GNU/Linux, because the only OS I directly mentioned is not GNU/Linux. Hence I use the kernel's name as a common categorization. It works better in a title than 'GNU/Linux-like', which would also be valid.

summary (because you didn't acknowledge half the arguments of my last post):

You are right that GNU/Linux is a real concept that should be used more. You are not right in saying the comment "I do believe in this situation you mean gnu/linux smartphone ;^)" is a real correction that would be better suited to the thread. It is alluding to a meme (acknowledged by the emoticon), which in this context does not correctly describe all the distributions this thread intends to cover.

That assumption is perfectly fine.
I believe Android is far enough removed from mainline so I don't call it a Linux-based OS for the sake of discussion, but it is not wrong to call it one.

Damn near everyone in my homeland of Canada, because IOS has 50% marketshare here, most IOS users here refuse to use anything except imessage, and SMS is literally the only way an android user and an imessage-obsessed apple fanboy can communicate.

The only people in Canada who bother to use other messengers are people with huge circles of contacts outside the country. Immigrants, international students, people here on work visas, etc. They use whatever the fuck is locally popular back in their homelands. But the average Canadian has no fucking clue what Signal or Wire or even goddamn Whatsapp are. Crazy but true.

i dont know about you guys, but here in sweden it's still 2019

ok i like u granpa
u good i unerstans

50 too much
need be 10 or maybee less

i dont know. these days many places send codes in text messages and its the only reason for me to have a phone

Well, I think it is hard to fairly call an OS using Linux kernel a Linux distribution, because a kernel is a subset of a complete operating system. It is not common to call an OS after it's kernel - Windows - NT, OSX - darwin(XNU), etc. and I don't know why Linux should be an exception here.
gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html.en#afterkernel

It is true that in the free software world the term operating system is a bit blurry, because you can take whatever software you want, pack together and make own distribution.
In the case of Android I don't think modified kernel is what makes it not a "Linux distribution" - I think it's the fact Android developers did a lot of work to put the OS together and the fact that Linux isn't the biggest part of the OS.
Regarding smaller operating systems like this, I think it's ok for developers to call an system whatever they want, even Linux, as far as they don't merge another OS like GNU into the distribution without giving any credits. Also a hard thing with "the Linux OS" is that it was started by Torvalds as a Minix clone, but he made just a kernel, because it was then merged with GNU. Is Linux an OS then? You could build a Windows clone on top of Linux (for example with Wine) and the system would be nothing like Unix, nothing like Minix. Without being merged with bigger things like GNU or Android, "the Linux OS" is shapeless, because of that I think Linux is not an OS by itself and an OS is more than just a kernel.

Operating system is a collection of base software to operate the computer. This is to distinguish between application software which is based upon an operating system. Without the operating system, each application program will be required to reimplement fundamental computer software functions that are easily provided by the OS.

That's what I call a kernel. Maybe in the 60s or 70s an operating system were basically a kernel, but it's not like this anymore.

Amateur smartphone OS enthusiast here. What are the players on the market except postmarketOS and Librem 5? Nowhere here I see the /e/ OS mentioned. How would you compare this OS to the ones discussed in this thread?

The OS kernel is one part of the operating system but it isn't the operating system by itself. Some functions that are needed in an operating system include a way to input commands (terminal shell), a way to edit files and configure the OS (text editor), a way to translate source code into a binary program (compiler), a way to manage files (ls, cp, rm, mv), a way to configure networking firewall rules. The list of ways to operate the computer that isn't quite an application program is part of the OS.

Yes, I know, sorry I didn't make it clear enough. I thought that by "to operate the computer" he means the hardware. Besides a kernel - software used to operate hardware you need also a software to operate an operating system and a kernel.
You should say that to

not really related but I'm planning to build a cellphone this summer. I'm going to use the SimCom SIM800 GSM module for the modem. I already have an arduino UNO that I will use for development but for the final design I am thinking of using an 8MHz arduino Pro Mini as the controller. For the screen most likely I'll go with a Nokia 5110 LCD with a backlight.

I'm not sure how I will make the keypad. Probably too expensive to have my own PCB made, and even then the clicky buttons they usually have, and I'm not sure how I'd backlight those.

how the hell would I make a keypad that's fit for a cellphone?

If you don't have nine or eleven GPIO ports or its a pure hardware modem, which it is not, then just make a old style tune adjuster thingy that is based on the frequency the modem emits to the local switching stations for dialing. There's a standard for what tone goes to what number I just don't fucking remember it.
By the way that thing is motherfucking botnet and you shouldn't use it. Get a radio and sim hardware from a samsung galaxy s2/3 you gigantic faggot. It is even bloated for your application anyways as it has bluetooth support which you do not need. What that means is it will be of higher power consumption then you need.

Yeah I think for the keypad I would have to make my own matrix keypad with buttons. Making the button covers would be a pain but doable I suppose.

how so? I wasn't aware, I would be getting a really small 3 dollar module. I wouldn't have figured it to be botnet especially if I'm mostly having control over it anyway. Also, I accept that using the cellular network anyway is botnet, you can't get around that.

How would I make or get a hardware modem? It would be nice to be able to just use dial tones or something. but I thought they don't do that anymore?

I'm a 100% noob and my planned project as is is on the limit of what I can do as a learning experience. How would I use the radio from a phone anyway? wouldn't that be a botnet too?

I have the sim800 command manual and it doesn't mention bluetooth at all. it does have support for TCP/IP through the network, though, but certainly no bluetooth. The item I was considering doesn't have bluetooth, I think. this chink shit: ebay.com/itm/Smallest-SIM800L-GPRS-GSM-Phone-Module-Card-Board-Quad-band-Onboard-Antenna/221886727567?hash=item33a97ac58f:g:xNUAAOSw4CFYvP55

But I'm really curious as to why it's botnet. Of course I don't really trust chinese stuff. But my reasoning is that I want to make a cellphone anyway. So that's already a mild botnet. They can hear voice data and SMS messages and basically whatever you put over the cell towers anyway. And your location, too. So the only other botnet I could see coming from using the Sim800 module I mentioned is if it somehow records my shit and sends it to the chinks which I think is unlikely given that it's a cheap piece of shit which would not be economical to make it be able to call back to a server or something like that, and I assume I will have mostly full control over the device since I'm sending the commands to it.

How would a modem from a phone fix that?

in case it's not clear I'm genuinely curious and want to hear your opinion.

Pleb is using an iPhone
Pleb is using an Android (I cringe whenever dilettante autists at work talk about how great Android is, Android phones are probably the most comprehensive spying devices on the planet)
Woke is using LineageOS
Bespoke is using Replicant/the new Librem 5 (assuming it's good)/ZeroPhone
Growing up is when you realize that stock iPhones are cryptographically secure, and far more secure than running Replicant/LineageOS because those are not well maintained or even audited. (Also, you're trusting pajeets when it comes to LineageOS.) Just use the stock iPhone without making an Apple account, you aren't a normalfag that needs a phone for anything other than calls/text, right user? Desktops will always bet the best computers.

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Yes but it doesn't mean that they need to be able to access the content on the phone either. Sure the thing you connect to is insecure but it doesn't mean your phone needs to be insecure. Say you send something over the internet using an obfs4/meek tor bridge. If your device is insecure then all that encryption is useless since they can just hack your device via the modem and do whatever. But if they can't then its useful for data transmission that you don't want attacked just by hacking your device.
Any software based cellular modem, that is the ones found in mobile phones, requires software duh to run. Your modem is essentially a self contained turing complete on occasion OS with seperate proccessor and RAM and or shared ram. Which means a cell tower, rouge cell tower, and or some kid with a radio attuned correctly can access it and control it via AT commands or some such nonsense and can steal information from your device, computer or phone.
Not just any phone but the chipset used for the samsung galaxy S2/3. The reasoning being that the proccessor and control over it for the cellular modem is both seperated from the main proccessor and RAM, it is self contained that is. Along with it, the software on the modem itself, being entirely libre/FOSS if you compile replicants drivers which means you can see and understand what is happening should say a cell tower try to issue AT commands to your modem and you can block it should you wish with a firewall or whatnot.
Desolder the components and solder them back onto the device you wish to use via appropriate ports. Just make sure you have a way to upload the software to run the modem onto the modem or it won't work.

Its much more complicated and difficult then what you were planning but gives you signifigantly more control and stops others from stealing your control away. If you are just doing this as a throwaway hobby project to learn about the various components then consider yourself more learned. If you are actually going to put this to serious use then fucking get a modem off a galaxy s2/3 or its fucking botnet. I am not aware of any other FOSS/libre modems that use 2g/3g and soon 4g other then something akin to a SDR set to a babies version of 2g/3g/4g and I am not even aware of a libre implementation of SDR software for such.

>use iphone with secure implementations of telemetry and stealing your info along with becoming a macfag to maintain your device no working linux support for itunes/device management via wine due to moving target and no native implementation for later iphones
>install gentoo with replicant drivers on galaxy s2/3 which won't steal your info unless you install things that will like chromium or dbus
Really easy choice here. Use a computer and not worry about this nonsense.

Go back to India

You have to remember that Replicant is hardly ever updated. Its security is very dubious; and 3G is extinct in burgerland. The iPhone telemetry is minimal and disassociated from you (still egregious, sure - but like I said, only use it as a phone), while phones running LineageOS were proven to _still_ sends extremely personalized telemetry to Google, not just ping Google whenever you connect to the Internet (like what they officially claim). I'm not sure why it does that, maybe something to do with the modem. Remember that you don't have control over the hardware.
Not sure what you mean by this. Use the iPhone without making an account. They let you do that.
I'd say the same, but work requires me to have a phone. I'd much rather not have a smartphone at all... the choice between an iPhone and an Android is like a choice between syphilis and HIV. I'd rather choose something cryptographically secure because ultimately all phones are spying devices.

Dude what the fuck are you even talking about? ithings are highly proprietary botnet shit, you can't control nonfree software. I would rather use 'outdated' replicant, than an iphone. If you really believe that privacy scam Apple serves you, you must be incredibly dumb.
That's your "minimal telemetry":
apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

You're*

Yes, they are highly proprietary, but they don't have extreme telemetry. You can confirm this yourself. I'm not denigrating Replicant simply for being old, the fact is that it isn't well maintained. And I said you shouldn't make an Apple account... and I'm not making this up, iPhones _are_ secure, they have cryptography built into it, and its proprietary nature actually makes it more secure. Like I said, I just use it as a phone. LineageOS is pajeet and 3G is finished in my country.

Wow, the stench of cuckchan that's coming from this post is physically painful.

...

Pal, you can onanate over how private your Replicant gewgaw is, it's still a smartphone with a proprietary modem, borderline unmaintained at this point. I'd rather use something that is secure - because phones are not private. I know every greasy NEET LARPer on Zig Forums likes to purity spiral, but give it a rest.

Your posts are glowing.

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That makes sense to me, although personally for this "project" I would really only use voice calling and SMS messages. I don't think I'd have anything else on the phone itself apart from contacts and such.

I am worried a little about someone being able to use the GSM module to gain access, but like I said I don't think it's a great risk. you're right though. I wonder if I wrote good code it would mitigate the microcontroller being abused over the GSM connection?

I'll look into it, but I don't know if I have the know how to make that work with my idea. Looks like they're pretty cheap on eBay, though. 10 bucks for an s2. I don't suppose it would be as simple as just connecting TX and RX pins and using it as a serial connection to a microcontroller, though, would it?

that makes sense. I guess if I could get a hold of the documentation I could actually make that work, but like you mentioned about the software I'm not sure how I'd do that given my limited knowledge. I was under the impression that the modem chip would not require external software (I would assume it has whatever it needs in EEPROM or something).

It is mostly just for a project to do, although I wouldn't really throw it away. Right now I use a fully botnetted phone to call people anyway, so I figure that at worst nothing changes. At best I have a fun device I can use to call and text and not have to bring this shitty """smart""" phone everywhere.

how would this work? I don't really know much (at all) about SDR.

thanks for the information by the way. I think if I go through with this project I may have to start off with the GSM module I mentioned just because I'd be a bit lost otherwise, and I can always use new knowledge to improve on the design.

Bump; anyone pre-ordering the Librem 5?

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I'm waiting for a finalized list of frequencies in the production model. I'd like to get one, but I want to make damn sure that it works with my carrier of choice.

Not the same guy, but seriously, kill yourself.

he's right partially though, you can't trust these shitty modems. They're basically tiny prorprietary computers with questionable firmware that can listen in on any traffic. A machine that conects to the botnet by definition will never be safe. You need to disconnect.

Which is why the Librem 5 has that functionality built-in: a physical power-cut switch.

The modem is going to be the gemalto.com/m2m/solutions/modules-terminals/industrial-plus/pls8

Text messages are still the norm for sending messages in North America, most carriers gave away huge number of free messages so it has become the norm. In the rest of the world, carriers charged huge amount for SMS, so when free internet messengers like WhatsApp, etc... came people switched to them instead of relying on high cost sms.

Or you can buy a $20 phone and take out the battery... What were the supposed benefits of the librem again? Is the OS at least free from binary blobs?

I'm betting all I've got that this can't work with the linux-libre kernel.

Android barely counts as Linux, it's less free than Windows.

A portable desktop PC that has a desktop OS and can easily connect to keyboard, mouse, and monitor with WIRES

>>1069153
Preordered the Librem 5 a few days ago.

For an open source economy there first needs to be an open source smartphone. And it should be free, secure, modular, produced ethically and get built collectively.
The Librem 5 doesn't yet have much modularity and it's probably sourced as unethically as the rest, but the focus right now is just building the first truly free and secure smartphone.
There's just nothing else that comes close to Librem5 as of right now. NecunOS, PostmarketOS and so on just can't compete with it.
Has anybody here tried Plasma Mobile? I'm going to use Librem5 with that. Just hoping they release it in Q3.

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I thought they were using wlroots and making their own desktop enviroment?

Because Android is total shit, and a disgrace to the Linux name.

So did any one got plasma mobile to run? Tried both available packages recently. Tried it about a year ago before. i would start to think its me but the error report page tells me i am not alone.

I have not pre ordered, but I will buy one two weeks after release.