Linux is bloated malware

Robert Lopez
Robert Lopez

consider installing devuan (debian without systemd)
installer is 4GB
consider installing OpenBSD
installer is 0.4GB
why is linux so bloated and shit?
why don't they provide light and fat installers?
light = kernel, one desktop environment, some crucial software
fat = few desktop environments, a lot of software

any why is linux so bloated even in standard installer?

Other urls found in this thread:

alpinelinux.org
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html**
gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:OpenRC
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Systemd
lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-June/005585.html

Brody Howard
Brody Howard

its not. you just found one of the most bloated distros. its possible to fit a fully working linux distro in 4mb.

Benjamin Bell
Benjamin Bell

claims linux is bloated malware
states why he thinks it's bloated
doesn't state why he thinks it's malware

Ryan Jenkins
Ryan Jenkins

show me the lean ones
I chosen distro that doesn't have systemd malware

it's malware because it has systemd and because it's bloated. bloated code = bugs and backdoors

Evan Morgan
Evan Morgan

linux
Actually Linux is just a kernel, whereas GNU/Linux is the system.
installer is 4GB
consider installing OpenBSD
installer is 0.4GB
Lol, because it contains software, OpenBSD doesn't. There are some more lightweight installers, for example Guix System - 1,3GB
why don't they provide light and fat installers?
They actually provide - debian/devuan net installer - 120MB, 500MB or something like that.

Oliver Gomez
Oliver Gomez

it's malware because it has systemd
systemd is actually good though

William Morris
William Morris

kek, and openbsd even comes with X and 3 different window managers

linux really is fucking garbage, only tolerable distros are shit like slackware and gentoo

Nathan Turner
Nathan Turner

Actually Linux is just a kernel, whereas GNU/Linux is the system.
I don't give a fuck what it is, but it is shit

Lol, because it contains software, OpenBSD doesn't.
What's the point of bundling 100 bloated fat software that user won't ever use? Only some important software should be bundled, for example:
-one web browser (or more if they are lean)
-one IRC client
-some software to view and edit text and image files (basic editing, so don't bundle GIMP)
-one music player, one video player
if user wants more or different, let him install it later

There are some more lightweight installers, for example Guix System - 1,3GB
does it have systemd? if yes, it's going to trash

They actually provide - debian/devuan net installer - 120MB, 500MB or something like that.
net installer is not lean installer. it will simply download all bloated shit during installation. also, net installers are botnet

systemd is actually good though
it's not good, it's great, for the NSA

linux really is fucking garbage, only tolerable distros are shit like slackware and gentoo
if they use systemd they are not tolerable

Gabriel Sanders
Gabriel Sanders

Guix uses GNU Shepherd and is systemd free

Aiden Scott
Aiden Scott

Slackware and Gentoo don't use systemd you tard

Gavin Bailey
Gavin Bailey

systemd is actually good though
Fuck off Lennart
it's malware because it has systemd
Linux is just a fucking kernel, you dumbass, it doesn't contain systemd yet. Some GNU/Linux contain systemd, but not all.
Just a kernel

Cameron Baker
Cameron Baker

try void or anything that is not based on the big 2(anything that uses .deb or .rpm packages are based on them)

Caleb Peterson
Caleb Peterson

even old windows like 2000/xp/2003 is superior to any linux and it fits 650MB CD. linux requires millions of gigabytes but offers shit
entire UNIX philosophy, design, everything is black nigger shit

Adrian Evans
Adrian Evans

any windows version after 3.11 is superior because all of them had/have lots of useful software. what you can do with a minimal linux/bsd is very limited and even the most bloated one cant do all the things that windows can. most software has always been developed primarily for windows.

Aaron Miller
Aaron Miller

debian
there's your problem. use a non-shit distro.

Kayden Stewart
Kayden Stewart

Fuck off Lennart
Not an argument.

Aiden Hall
Aiden Hall

so what linux or bsd distro that is:
-lean
-systemd and botnet free
-user friendly, has GUI
-non-meme, has to have many developers and be alive in future

Landon Barnes
Landon Barnes

Best you can have is either GuixSD, Slackware or Gentoo. Everything else is either meme or has botnet, but archfags will try to tell you otherwise.

Noah Hall
Noah Hall

show me the lean ones
alpinelinux.org
- 112 MB installer, default base install runs entirely in RAM
- musl
- OpenRC (same as gentoo)
- busybox
- libressl

Lincoln Hughes
Lincoln Hughes

openrc is bloat tho

Andrew Ortiz
Andrew Ortiz

Gentoo, really. Achieved a libressl, libre kernel, lightweight install in a couple of days. (old as fuck hardware)
Hyperbola is a good candidate but it lacks devs to be not considered as a meme. If it changes, it could be great though.
Guix might be good but as Gentoo do the job, I don't bother to try something else.
This is what the GNU/Linux is in $current_year

Kayden Foster
Kayden Foster

gentoo,gentoo, gentoo

my system has neither dbus, *kits, udev, pam, systemd, pulseaudio, openrc, eudev or even gtk3. The init is runit. Thing boots in seconds and hovers around 1-2 GB of memory usage with browsing and tons of tabs. You'd have to bend yourself over backwards to achieve that on any other distro and some distro maintainer might change or some troon autist might develop an opinion on a whim and you can either jump ship or live with it. Only gentoo allows you to say "no thanks". It's a few use flags and package masks away and If they change the packages in a way where that isn't enough, just write new ones and store them locally.
Or add patches removing dependencies. Portage makes that really easy without you going insane from a Frankensystem that isn't automated in it's updates anymore.

The *BSDs are cool in principle, fact is though that their hardware support is shit. When some mainstream intel/amd 64 bit system from 2011 still isn't fully supported in 2019 then your OS is useless for most people. Plain and simple.

Oliver Gomez
Oliver Gomez

gentoo is getting more bloated every day. the package manager is even made in python and it keeps getting new dependencies almost every time when it gets a update. also the useflags wont allow changing every config option of every package and the portage files are usually extremely complex so its easier to build the package manually if the useflag does not exist.

Cameron King
Cameron King

I would have rather liked to see alpine with runit, but OpenRC was still a much better choice than systemd for numerous reasons. Void uses musl/runit/libressl but still depends on a GNU userland.
When I tried gentoo I couldn't stand portage. Maybe it's a BSD-specific sensibility, but I just don't think Python should ever be in base.

David Wood
David Wood

python is intrinsic to the system, yeah nothing is perfect but I'd rather live with that then the tons of downsides and the non self-determination other distros have.
Just mask the packages and stop using software that's garbage and needs those dependencies. I have like ~400 packages installed and that number has been static for a while. When a program becomes shit or drinks the dbus/gtk3/whatever koolaid, then it goes bye-bye. That's not gentoos fault.

ebuilds are incredibly simple and you apparently have no idea what you're talking about. There's literally never a reason to install something manually if you have truly understood ebuilds. You can even copy screwy official ebuilds into your local portage package tree and change them, add new useflags which are attached to options regarding compilation of the program, add source code patches etc.. (don't even need changed ebuilds for the last one) When you wanna update that for a new version of the program, changing the version number is often all you have to do. (If the program hasn't gone to shit, but again - not gentoos fault if it has)

Point is, even if you think all this his horrible other distros are even worse because they don't even offer you these options to begin with. If it's all too complicated for you then enjoy systemdicks and all that other shit, your problem. I know how to avoid it.

Jeremiah Gutierrez
Jeremiah Gutierrez

Can something like the Guix package manager give as much flexibility and customizability as portage? I've seen that packages definitions in Guix are pretty simple and straight forward, but I don't know if there's enough room to tweak things the way you would do in Gentoo and portage, although I also don't know shit about scheme so anything could be possible as far as I know.

Asher Johnson
Asher Johnson

gentoo is getting more bloated every day. the package manager is even made in python and it keeps getting new dependencies almost every time
Well except python is a bit slow indeed, I never encountered the issues you mention but maybe that's because I carefully read the wiki, documentation to build from the ground a non jew system.I picked only what I need, carefully selected uses flags etc.. Running it for 6 months now.

Andrew Foster
Andrew Foster

barely knows nothing about GNU/Linux and its distros
"lol no my tech expertise makes me qualified to say systemd is malware I am totes not parroting"
Every time.

Lucas Flores
Lucas Flores

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Andrew Thomas
Andrew Thomas

linux distro in 4mb.
yes
fully working
Nobody makes money working on their 4mb toy distro.

Nathan Martin
Nathan Martin

You're actually stupid enough to call *one* distro 'Linux'? Linux is the kernel, it doesn't have a de/wm, and there's different varieties of it, you can't just say that linux is trash just because you encountered a bloated distro

Asher Brooks
Asher Brooks

He probably just selects a desktop profile and starts compiling. He'd have to take the cock out of his mouth to actually pay attention to use flags.

Asher Gray
Asher Gray

Post flags and package masks plz

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Caleb Reed
Caleb Reed

Gentoo don't use systemd you tard
Gentoo does use systemdicks now (optional), but to say it doesn't is as tarded as the tard you replied to. Did you think lurking glowniggers weren't going to pozz to fuck an OS that was on a level of purity with Terry's Temple?

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Brayden Long
Brayden Long

1-2 GB of memory usage with browsing and tons of tabs. You'd have to bend yourself over backwards to achieve that on any other distro
lmao classic gentoo

Adrian Russell
Adrian Russell

Gentoo once again works with OpenRC
meaning it didn't for a short while.
Notice the fix is via the everyone can nowlogindaemon (((project))) coded by a (((fellow))) Gentoo user.

Elijah Gray
Elijah Gray

no. i used to use it and had some 400 packages but i eventually switched to void because its not worth the time it takes to maintain it and any performance difference is so small that it cant be noticed. this distro actually has libressl by default and uses runit instead of the bloated openrc and nothing in the default install requires python. gentoo probably still cant compile everything with libressl without custom patches that you have to find with a search engine yourself. like the ffmpeg package was one that is/was stuck on 3.something probably because the maintainer abandoned it and no one cares. and firefox wants to pull in that at-spi thing and theres no useflag that disables it but its not needed if you compile it manually.

Caleb Collins
Caleb Collins

This is not comprehensive because you need to do your own homework. This is the problem nowadays, people just wanting to have a quick solution without understanding how anything even works. Exactly that attitude brought us shit like systemd.

for starters, -consolekit -policykit -gtk3 -udev -pam

then mask
sys-apps/systemd
media-sound/pulseaudio
sys-apps/dbus
sys-fs/udev
sys-fs/eudev
sys-auth/polkit
sys-auth/consolekit
sys-auth/pambase
(before you follow the last three mindlessly do your reading. Find out why they are bad. Find out why you don't need them)

If you don't want to use gentoos main init system (I wouldn't, it's overtly complicated garbage. It's also probably garbage on purpose because the person maintaining it is involved with systemd)
sys-apps/openrc

If you wanna use runit, you don't need this either. You could also make an init with it, which would be a perfectly fine classical solution. I personally like runit more.
sys-apps/sysvinit

If you're also like me and dislike gtk 3 and the applications using it:
x11-libs/gtk+:3
(it also pulls in dbus for a dumb reason. There's a patch floating around getting rid of that dependency)

=x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-3.24
(all versions past that one depend on gtk3 stuff, it's a good idea to make a local ebuild of that version, dependency of many gtk apps)

(You wanna keep all those packages masked so you'll get notified on updates if something tries to sneakily pull them in.)

Python 3.x is noticeably slower than Python 2.x while not really giving you any advantages as end user. You can put this into your make.conf
PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7"
PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7"

to stick mostly with python 2.7. This is not possible for some packages anymore, so in package.use you put

(name of the package) python_targets_python3_6
or
(name of the package) python_single_target_python3_6 python_targets_python3_6

depending on what portage complains about.

Find out how to do a static /dev or how to use mdev. Both is easy if you do your research and know anything about linux. udev/eudev is terrible, convoluted bloat. Set up runit for your system and your needs by manually writing the boot and shutdown file. It's literally AUTOEXEC.BAT. Again, not hard if you know how to linux. Build a custom kernel for your machine, add the needed firmware blobs in. Get rid of pointless complexity like initramfs and enjoy putting /usr on it's own partition again if you want to.

Now that you've got rid of most of the cancer, you can also put this into your make.conf
INSTALL_MASK="/usr/lib/systemd/ /etc/systemd/ /etc/sysctl.d/ /usr/lib/sysctl.d/"

explanation: some programs put files down (mostly configuration) for systemd anyways, no matter your use flags. That'll stop packages from doing that.

If you follow these guidelines you'll end up with a working and slim gentoo system that avoids a lot of the modern garbage. Now it's up to you to find programs that are lightweight and don't depend on any of that stuff. Some ebuilds are very lazily put together and have dependencies the programs really do not need. It's easy to make a local version of the ebuild and edit those dependencies. Again, do your own homework, it isn't hard.

Or stick with what other people decide for you. See if I care.

Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson

Not an argument.
Here you go without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

Luis Phillips
Luis Phillips

Elogind comes from GuixSD. Unfortunately, a lot of modern programs depend on systemd even when it's not used as the init or service manager.

Gentoo once again works with OpenRC

No, it clearly says:
GNOME on Gentoo Gentoo once again works with OpenRC

William Allen
William Allen

There's a lot of stuff still that doesn't depend on systemd, dbus or components. Just avoid stuff like gnome/kde and you're usually in the clear. I've been running the gentoo system I outlined the guidelines of above for years now and updates were actually never a pain. (If I had to guess, I had to maybe look into some dependency problem because of the masked packages maybe every ten months or so)

It is getting worse though. Eventually I'm going to make the jump to FreeBSD, even though ports is not as sophisticated as portage. What's holding me back mostly is the poor hardware support and their paranoid security stances that do not always make practical sense. OpenBSD is also fine, it does have a cock but compared to the stuff corporations are doing to the kernel and garbage like systemd, it's the lesser of two evils, especially since it will never be relevant enough to be subverted by the usual forces. Might be me just being optimistic though.

Jackson Walker
Jackson Walker

Or I can just install something with a real ports tree and binary packages not designed by gay ricers.

Nicholas Howard
Nicholas Howard

binary packages by definition cannot give you the same flexibility because you cannot choose compilation-time options. It has nothing to do with ricing. Stop parroting shit you don't understand, retard.

Brandon Baker
Brandon Baker

Sounds like Salix would be right up your alley.

Cooper Cook
Cooper Cook

gentoo probably still cant compile everything with libressl without custom patches
what is libressl overlay
Try it, anyway it concerns mostly Qt.
firefox wants to pull in that at-spi thing and theres no useflag that disables it but its not needed if you compile it manually.
using firefox, are you retarded ?

Hudson Hernandez
Hudson Hernandez

Installer is 0.4GB
Install Gentoo
Installer is 0.2GB
Install Puppy
Installer is 0.1GB

Fag bait niggerfaggot thread

Git gud and install sourcemage

Christian Thomas
Christian Thomas

stfu niggerfaggot install gentoo and sit on a faggotnigger dick

Dylan Powell
Dylan Powell

saved
thanks for useful tips Gentoo user meister

Connor Taylor
Connor Taylor

what are flavors
The BSD ports trees build several binary packages from the same port each with different compile time configurations. This covers the majority of use cases without requiring the user to build from source. But it's still possible to build and install a fully customized package. The ports system handles not only custom compile time options but also source code patches.

What it doesn't do, which portage does, is automate system-wide profiles for compile time options (use flags). But the added flexibility of use flags is more theoretical than practical, because it's not possible to maintain a port of modest complexity for every permutation of its compile time options. That is a problem when Gentoo doesn't have sane defaults, when in fact it pretty much explodes the very concept of defaults.

Julian Sanchez
Julian Sanchez

Actually Linux is just a kernel, whereas GNU/Linux is the system.
kill yourself, faggot

Jason Myers
Jason Myers

kill yourself, faggot
Wow, you're impressing, what an argument!
**Now, fuck off and read a great lecture for idiots like you
gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html**

Logan Kelly
Logan Kelly

Ok, now I'm impressing.
gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html

Brody Wood
Brody Wood

Actually Linux is just a kernel, whereas GNU/Linux is the system.
I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!

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Aaron King
Aaron King

linux is bloated and malware (systemd)
macos and windows are superior

Asher Evans
Asher Evans

Thank you for making this clear again.

Eli Garcia
Eli Garcia

...so, is Linux Mint really:

Linux (kernel) + a "Mint modified" GNU OS + systemd?

Lincoln Reyes
Lincoln Reyes

GNU is the basic OS and Linux is the kernel program that's paired with GNU. Mint is the branding of the specific GNU OS + Linux kernel + systemd manager combination.

Jordan Brown
Jordan Brown

ebuild looks interesting. I actually enjoy writing install scripts.

I didn't realize so many people were in the anti-systemd camp.

ca$h do you have a build script for this? This is without any kind of package manager right? How minimal a system is it?

Jason Hernandez
Jason Hernandez

Thank you for posting this.

Jonathan Brown
Jonathan Brown

Which browser do you use?
I wanted to use qutebrowser, luakit or surf but both qtwebengine and webkit-gtk have a hard dependency on dbus.
Firefox seems to be the only browser that doesn't pull in any of the crap.

firefox wants to pull in that at-spi thing
Not on my machine.

Aiden Harris
Aiden Harris

then you have modified something. theres no useflag for that by default.

Elijah Cooper
Elijah Cooper

that's because you're retarded and picked a preconfigured environment and is crying out for it coming with more than what you need.

Owen Cox
Owen Cox

What distro can't be installed over a network? Slackware-current is best installed that way, the usbboot image is under 50MB in size.

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Liam Moore
Liam Moore

oh i dont know maybe because theres a gui and high end multimedia and driver support

Juan King
Juan King

but have you entered the void yet?

Aiden Howard
Aiden Howard

most linux distros have the kernel compiled so that its almost 100mb

Jeremiah Gonzalez
Jeremiah Gonzalez

then you have modified something
I haven't.
theres no useflag for that by default
There isn't but the at-spi crap simply doesn't get pulled in.
If you have dbus and at-spi on your system, maybe it just launches that stuff because it can, but it runs witout it.
I have app-accessibility/at-spi2-core and app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk masked.

Juan Jackson
Juan Jackson

Install Plamo

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Carter Morris
Carter Morris

could have changed then but it would be on the list of packages that was going to get installed last time when i used gentoo and tried to install firefox with the package manager.

Ian Gray
Ian Gray

It's also probably garbage on purpose because the person maintaining it is involved with systemd
this piqued my curiosity, so I looked into it

wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:OpenRC
Lead: William Hubbs
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Systemd
Member(s): William Hubbs
hmmm

lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-June/005585.html
Malte Starostik wrote:
I see how the needs of non-BLOB distros/users might not be your top priority
and personally I'd definately rather push migration to systemd than investing
too much in a split build. Still it seems totally broken that you have to
order a five course meal then trash all but the soup just because the menu
contains no standalone soup. Oh right, but you fully support eating just the
soup.
William Hubbs wrote:
< Great analogy. I understand that binary package maintainers can do this
< very easily, but it doesn't work that way on a source based distro.
< What we are being asked to do is very inefficient imo, and it isn't
< because of our package manager.
< WRT migrating to systemd: I am just a package maintainer. I am not in a
< position where I can tell our distro that we must do that, and knowing'
< what I know about our distro, I'm pretty sure that migrating to systemd
< isn't going to happen at this point.
Malte Starostik wrote:
Well, maybe those who need a udev-only build could instead coordinate their
efforts so there only needs to be one set of patches/*.pc hacks/cherry picking
scripts. Maybe the systemd maintainers could accept such a thing for a
contrib/ subdir?
William Hubbs wrote:
< Something needs to be done, because there are clearly people across
< multiple distros who need a udev only build for whatever reason.

<Great analogy.
<WRT migrating to systemd: I am not in a position where I can tell our distro that we must do that
what did he mean by this?

also, what did he mean by the way he phrased this
<there are clearly people across multiple distros who need a udev only build for whatever reason

he isn't a systemd contributor or anything of that sort, but he does sound like a systemd fanboy

Chase Gonzalez
Chase Gonzalez

void
alpine
couple designed to run off cds like puppy/DSL
your standard meme pair arch/gentoo

Jaxon Harris
Jaxon Harris

Bundled shit in .ISO
Afaik unless you pick a netinstall version it'll include the glory of KDE and maybe also some flavor of gnome.
My memory is foggy but netinstall media usually hovers around 200MB

Alexander Stewart
Alexander Stewart

why did they even make openrc when runit was already a thing?

Jace Nelson
Jace Nelson

This is a bot post.

Justin Howard
Justin Howard

netinstall is a botnet, it requires internet connection to install
what we need is non-bloat offline installer, that installs most important components, basic GUI, one web browser, network connection wizard, image viewer, etc
later you can install whatever you want

Jose Baker
Jose Baker

No, the DVD is 4GB because it includes a package libary on it, ya dingus. You can add or remove whichever packages you don't want to be in the base system.

Carson Richardson
Carson Richardson

SliTaz is only 50mb installed and feels like any other lxde experience you can have

Ryder Martin
Ryder Martin

You can actually use pkgsrc on OpenBSD (I wouldn't bother tbh) but it can be done. Here's an excerpt of my /etc/mk.conf for NetBSD:

PKG_DEFAULT_OPTIONS= caca
PKG_DEFAULT_OPTIONS+= -rpi -opengl -sdl2
PKG_DEFAULT_OPTIONS+= -dbus -inet6 -qt5
PKG_DEFAULT_OPTIONS+= -pulseaudio -nas -alsa -jack -esound -openal
PKG_OPTIONS.libcaca= ncurses imlib2

Landon Rodriguez
Landon Rodriguez

OP is a troll. Thread closed.

//sage

Noah Hill
Noah Hill

gentoo is getting more bloated every day.
Tell me about it. Even with 16GB of RAM, chromium eats all of it every sometimes. Such is modern software.

Jaxson Gonzalez
Jaxson Gonzalez

HAVE U EVER TRIED FUCKING UR MOTHER'S RECTUM? I HAVE. UR MOTHER'S RECTUM WAS A CLASSIC SAMPLE OF "BLOATED MALWARE" - U FUCKING PAJEET.