Systemd free distro

what is the ultimate systemd free distro?
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd
too many of them
doesn't have to be linux, so bsd or other shits also allowed

requirement: has to support web browser. the only acceptable web browser to use is Tor Browser. so it has to support it

Other urls found in this thread:

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd
sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_package_guide
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slackware
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Features.html#Features
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/System-Configuration.html#System-Configuration
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Development.html#Development
gnu.org/software/guix/blog/
bootstrappable.org/
nixos.org/~eelco/pubs/phd-thesis.pdf
pkgs.org/download/chromium
youtube.com/watch?v=pjHDvO_haQY
marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152872551609819&w=2)
scoop.sh/

Install Gentoo.

Gentoo is shit because it doesn't offer you binaries but you have to compile every stupid shit and waste time, energy
also good luck compiling a web browser with old PC

I've tried maybe 4? Out of which only 2 ran fine on my system. Looking into Alpine Linux "extended", says it runs on RAM. GOnna check that out.

Why is the formatting broken on the https version
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

Enjoy your systemdick. Talking as if Gentoo doesn't support any binary programs, and you use your computer every single second.

Guix System

Lol, because Gentoo is shitty. Check out Guix System. Guix is a source-based, functional package manager and builds are reproducible, which means you don't have to build the software you want use yourself. You can just download a binary 'substitute' and it is guaranteed to be byte-to-byte the same as if you built it yourself.

...

this. Gentoo is the sanest GNU+Linux distribution.

Devuan, it literally just fucking werks on all the machines I've tried it on and its not a pain in the ass to deal with.

If gentoo is too difficult to handle for you you should just do everyone in the gnu/linux community a favor and install Windows 10.

Calculate, it's based on Gentoo and it just werks if you don't want to have to sit through hours of compiling time.

Devuan is bloat

obviously os x is the ultimate systemd replacement

Why would you not want to have syshemd, one of the best pieces of software to grace the GNU / Linux ecosystem?

this

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LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This, works like a charm on my older machines.

Everything is Bloat! Instead of giving a suggestion for a better solution... Anyhow a trimmed version of Devuan: sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/

wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_package_guide

This

Void

if you're feeling edgy:
HardenedBSD

Come home

Attached: Parabola_Gnu_Linux-libre_icon.png (480x480, 15.68K)

Void Linux

Gentoo has been around for nearly 20 years and works very well. Guix is poorly documented and buggy trash.

retard alert

guix is a shit LARPer os for hobbyists and autists, Gentoo you can use for something other than fapping to Richard Stallman's foot cheese

Oldest and best distro. While the rest of the Linux sphere chases the latest features and pioneers new ways to break your shit and hide control from you, Slackware stays true to it's course.

Attached: 300px-Bob.jpg (300x472, 52.28K)

Sorry you can't have reproducible builds or system bootstrapping on your shitty Gentoo, but my LARPer's disrtibution provides these things. I guess you put your dick into a porthole everyday.

Artix

There is a reason why ol' slacky is still used heavily to this day.
It really is one of the best distros.

Sup

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slackware
It doesn't sound great to me, dependency management is a basic feature every package manager should have. Why would I have to do it myself, if it could be automated?

Slackware is interested only in packages it ships, aka contents of PACKAGES.TXT on ftp mirrors. It works more or less as a snapshot – if one package is updated on the server, every single dependency will be rebuilt as well and end-user's upgrade process will pull it as well. Kind of like a snapshot. It's a remarkably simple, non-demanding on resources (since packages are literally tarballs that unpack into root filesystem) and works very well unless you're an idiot.
Anything outside of Slackware is considered user's responsibility (or second- and third-party project's, like slackbuilds.org's). In many ways Slackware is one of the last true software distributions.

The intended way™ to use Slackware and not give a fuck is just install EVERY package distro itself provides and never worry about it again.
As for the quality, like, I wouldn't suck Patrick's dick, but his distro is alright.

Seems to be a really simple solution, easy to implement but hard to use...
Could you explain this?

Doesn't sound minimalistic.

Ok but what if you want to remove a package, which has a lot of dependencies? Will Slackware remove trashes left after this package? And I still don't get it, what's the advantage of having to install dependencies manually? Even APT manages your dependencies somehow, but managers like Guix or Nix take it to the higher level. With Guix packages are treated in the functional way input -> processing -> data. Thanks to this approach packages, environments and the whole systems are reproducible. On Slackware if I built a program while having it's dependencies installed and then if I gave the binary to someone else, who don't have just one dependency installed, the program woundn't work. And what about DLL hell? What if I want to have two versions of the same program/library, will Slackware handle this?

Slackware is not minimalistic, it's slack LMAO
No? It's not fucking trash, every package is either installed or it isn't. You can have packages installed with de-facto dependencies missing and get "cannot find so library" messages for them. But you WON'T get this ever if you just install everything alright?
What the fuck with all the guix shilling? Reproducability ain't shit if you are crazy on customization, and Slackware isn't source based anyway. What the heck?
No shit. Just like with every other distibution.
I dunno exactly, probably install into different prefix with a custom slackbuild script? Slackware doesn't hold your hand here, think of something yourself.

And look, nobody's here gonna shill slack for you. I just happened to use it in the past and I abandoned it, 'cause it's kinda a drag and it's basically a one-man distro, like, there are other people working on that, I guess, but it's the benevolent dicktator himself who makes the calls. You either take it or leave it.

How do you guys feel about Salix? I am feeling rather frisky today and looking to nuke my hard drive and start fresh™ and I am between slack and Salix.

Never used it.

Salix is pretty good. It's basically Slackware stable with more polish and a smaller, more focused install. One application per task, one mail client, one web browser, one terminal, etc. As apposed to Slackware which will include every application from KDE, xfce4, plus a handful of others due to popularity (if you do a full install that is). It also packages a little more than Slackware does, but it's backwards compatible so if you want use their repo in Slackware it should just werk. Salix's package manager, slapt, also kind of does dependency management. It's using Slackware packaging with a little extra information added to salix's package files to to give it required and optional dependencies.


Before I used Slackware 90% of the time if my system got borked it was from something a package manager, helper program/script, or overly "smart" init system/service manager did, or poor choices by the maintainers. Slackware's package manager, scant few helper scripts, and init are all simple shell scripts, and if you don't want to use them they can be safely ignored, and they will never do anything you didn't tell them to or more than they were originally designed to. Fetching your own dependencies might be a little bit of a pain, but it's nice having a distro that is bedrock solid and doesn't have any surprises for you.

If you want to keep track of dependencies in programs you install, I recommend just keeping a file of package notes. for example:

name: qemu
notes: x86 virtual machine
required: SDL2
optional: libacard spice usbedir virglrenderer device-tree-compiler libnfs snappy glusterfs vde2 libseccomp

Then when you remove qemu, you can search the file for instances of qemu to see if anything depends on it, and you can see that it depends on SDL2, and you can search the file for other instances of SDL2 to see if its safe to remove as well, that way you can keep track of what was installed as a dep and why if you want to clean up. Most things you will want to install won't require many dependencies outside of the full install. I specifically chose qemu as an example because it has the most out of anything else in my pkgnotes file.

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Is MX Linux any good?

Useless dependencies after a package I don't use anymore are trash for me.
On Guix I won't ever have such a problem, because it installs everything alright for me.
What if your customization is reproducible? You don't have to compile everything on Guix System, you can use binary substitutes as well, but they're reproducible after all.
Guix has many advantages, most notably:
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Features.html#Features
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/System-Configuration.html#System-Configuration
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Development.html#Development
Not or Guix System or NixOS, these distributions solve the problem of "DLL hell"
Guix does.
I asked, because I thought people using it know exactly what are the special features, but it only doesn't use systemd.
I'll probably leave now.

Are you getting paid for this shillt or what?
Because I wouldn't do that for free.

Ok, so it is a distribution for people who perfectly know how the system works and are better in managing dependencies and services than software they use. It is cool, somehow... But I rather like automation, that's what computers are for after all.
I know now why Slackware doesn't use systemd - resolving its dependencies by hand would be hell.

I don't know what's wrong with you. Guix System is the official GNU distribution, is systemd-free and is compliant with Free System Distribution Guidelines. Read about its advantages, and then say if it is good or bad, but for now you haven't told what's wrong with it at all.

GNU software is garbage in general but that's beside the point.
Who the fuck even uses that distro? Like, you can see live slackers around everywhere, you can see debian/devuan fucks, you can see arch kids, you can see gentoo shmucks, ubuntu, opensuse, mandrake or even kali linux larpers, but guix is just whatever. Do people even use it? Fuck if I know.
I dunno what's the problem with YOU. You (most probably) have already contributed to the thread with guix proposition earlier, and now you're fucking with slackers who in fact unironically manage dependencies manually. I know Slackware is very special, but this just ain't right. You said "guix", "reproducible builds" just too many times, fuken shill.
Let's say that if it doesn't have the same degree of reasonably easy flexibility Gentoo has, it's fuken useless, because guess what - gentoo is the best source based shit I know of and it's still has major flaws.
Also people above say it's buggy too, and that's some useful information. Gentoo has bugs too, but really not as much, and if that shit got bugs in their "reproducible" management system, it fucking just blows the whole thing away.
Other than that, I don't care about reproducability for the sake of it. It's not hard to achieve if you know what you're doing.
And reading about this shit can fuck off. Actual user experience is more important.

1.0 version was released just a month ago, don't expect it to have more users than distributions having 20 years or more. And yes people are using it, even for real things, for example bioinformatics. Check out the blog gnu.org/software/guix/blog/
At least I'm not bitching around and SHOUTING AT PEOPLE WITH CAPSLOCK.
Guix has some special features, almost no other distribution has. I'm referring to it, because in my opinion Guix is the best disribution, so I compare other distributions with it to check if there is something better. But I'm asking Slackware guys gently, because I wan't to know what's special about Slackware. I'm not forcing them to use Guix.
It is still a fresh distribution, but it has some features Gentoo doesn't - binary bootstrapping, reproducibility, whole system configurations in one language and even something similar to USE flags, but client-side.
1.0.0 contained a bug, because they didn't have tests written for GUI installer, but it was fixed in 1.0.1.
Lol, what's the point in having a source-based Gentoo, if the builds are not reproducible? How can you trust your compiler?
bootstrappable.org/

It's just AntiX with bloat. I don't really see a point personally, but it's probably better than Devuan if you're that determined to use a Debian-based distro.

windows doesn't have this shit and works perfectly
want to use software? download .exe and install
don't want to use it anymore? uninstall

package managers and dependencies are just unix brain damage

I have read about a little bit. Overall it's not that impressive. Like, there's no innovation here. It's evident that's there's a lot of hard work and good thought put into the whole meta thing, but I don't see, like, any improvement on how that shit would handle feature dependencies. Like, I see you can pass options to build systems but hey, I don't need no build system to do that.
What a dumb shit.
LMAO
They are way more honest with their wording than you are.
I shout only @ retarded shitstains who need to be put down alright.
Dude, did you use that shit? What for? Other distros? What for? Get outta here with your junk.
Well, hot redpill for you - Linux is a hot steaming pile of shit up from the kernel all the way down to freedesktop shit. There are good bits here and there but SYSTEM is bad in a lot of ways. The effort behind this guix system is inclusive and not reformative. The bugs in compiler, gmake, autotools and what not will remain where they are, so, maybe that shit is good at reproducing bugs, fuck me sideways.
Well, do they use some compiler other than GCC? Get outta here with that nonsense.

It's more because the only new things systemd brings to the table is automatic cgroup management for services and faster boot times. Slackware added a few scripts that allow admins to configure the use of cgroups if that is desired, and the boot time isn't a concern when you only reboot after kernel patches or ucode updates (also, even single threaded, modern machines are so fast, is anyone honestly sweating the extra 3-7 seconds?). Most importantly though, Slackware's rc scripts still work, and are simple to use, read, and edit. Slackware 14.2 is managed just the same as 8.1, which is just the same as 1.1. It's not broke, so Pat isn't fixing it.

I know systemd added more than that, but most of it it's arguable if it is really an advancement or just doing things differently for the sake of it.

If you want more automation there are plently of scripts out there like sbopkg and sbotools for building slackbuilds.org packages, and slapt-get or slackpkg+ for installing from third party binary repos, or you can always roll your own if you feel up to it. Some of these have dependency management but it's only half implemented. Basically if the package/SlackBuild does include deps it will pull the required ones, but not optional ones, and none if the package doesn't list any, I'd avoid it for packages with more complicated deps. Personally I use sbopkg to automate slackbuilds.org builds, and keep notes on the packages as in , and slackpkg+ to keep a couple binary packages i got from from AlienBob's repo up to date.


Simplicity and consistency. It seems like a pain due to the lack of built in automation, but the pains of working without the automation, even over time, is much less than the pains of cleaning up after poorly documented, distro specific software and patches when they go off the rails all because the maintainers made some assumptions that didn't include your use-case/configuration. Also, Slackware doesn't patch upstream unless necessary, so if it's a bug it's a bug with upstream, not something Slackware specific. Makes finding solutions much easier.

I don't want to repeat myself. I told what the innovations are, things only Nix and Guix have. There's a whole paper written about functional package management nixos.org/~eelco/pubs/phd-thesis.pdf
It isn't easy to provide reproducible builds, but doing nothing about it is not going to help. I checked once on the Gentoo's wiki, and there's not a single page about reproducibility, they simply don't care.
Well, hot redpill for you - Linux is just a kernel, GNU/Linux is the system. Kernel is shit, because it is monolithic. There's the Hurd with better architecture (yes, that's this garbage GNU software, better than Linux).

Well, you said yourself. NixOS did the innovation years ago. And guess what, I didn't hear much from nixos users either. It's like it starts and ends with gentoo as far as source-based distros go.
As for how exactly innovative that is, well, it's another layer of scripting above, essentially. Maybe better scripting than shell spaghetti, but there are fundamental flaws with that approach.
To help with what, exactly? What do you do if toolchain fucks up and doesn't produce consistent results? Well, you stop using your damn toolchain for a start and start debugging, not doing some reproducibility nonsense.
The point went over your head and you went on a tangent, because you are a stupid butthurt motherfucker.
Look at the world giving a fuck. Do you live under a rock?
GCC is built by default by compiling itself 3 times over, each new time with a version from the previous time.
Gentoo builds stages, DUH. These are used in scripts that use stages to build stages. Maybe it's not strict reproducibility, I didn't play with them enough, but I think you can get bit-by-bit stages, for example.
Old news, buddy. Did you write your own compiler, punk? Then fuck off.
In a current Linux ecosystem, I don't. It's useless.
His words are general as fuck, but whatever.
Let me teach you secrets on how to make rock-stable simple&consistent loonix distro. You follow GNU guys on what basic toolchain versions (binutils-gcc-glibc) tools they use together. Or maybe not, just pick whatever close by date and stick to it. You build your basic system (there are different ways of building up to a host-independent platform) and you are basically self-hosted now. After that you carefully pick software and build the rest, while using that shit, because oh boy there gonna be bugs. After you have your package set, you freeze everything in place and basically don't touch anything basic unless you absolutely need to. Call that "release". That's how slack is done, though they expose their mid-of-the-road updates and security updates in slackware-current, their kinda rolling release place. They are not usually basic updates, so it's not painful to update.
Now, the rolling release distros have ongoing update, which might suffer quality costs and might break on rare updates, like, if the system moves so fast that your latest sync will skip some important assumption (it is a shitty thing by devs, but might happen). Those rolling release might have different, well, let's call them flavors, for like unstable/testing/stable, which means basically if you want new shit, move to unstable, if you want slightly less bugs, move to stable. Slackware is very stable, it's stable as fuck, the quality of maintainer work here is good (as I said earlier), and that's what actually matters, not some reproducibility bullshit.

I'd suggest checking both the set it's in and the sets' tagfile. The packages are marked as required, recommended or optional. The latter two are generally safe to delete.
Some sets can be omitted entirely, for example I never bother with E(macs) or XFCE, KDE and KDEI (all of which are optional or recommended).
In theory, only the A set is necessary to have a working system. It's bare minimum though.
Slackware doesn't really have a lot of crust though

Seriously guys, Slackware is shit because it is one of the many "You must use the communist Firefox browser comrade!"

Limiting the package selection due to lazyness or politics is always a distro-killer.

Are you some kind of bozo? Didn't even check slackbuilds or web search? Why would someone lie on the Internet.
pkgs.org/download/chromium

Why the hell would anyone use Chromium? Its even more diseased than Firecucks at this point. And the fact you can /technically/ install it with a script in terminal is nice, but very non-optimal compared with just using a damn package manger.

There are decent, well maintained, not fucked forks of both.

So, again, this is lazyness, or communism.

Guix, IceCat has tor button

All you said earlier is Slackware forces you to use Firefox. Well it doesn't.

Slackbuilds also has palemoon, qutebrowser, surf, and dozens of others. There are packages managers for slackbuilds, and third party binary repos for slackware's slackpkg too.

Also Slackware comes more than just Firefox, Firefox is just the actively maintained/fully featured of the included browsers. Are you just butthurt that they dared make it the default? Do you choose your distros based on their default web browser?

MX has it but it's disabled
Tor was also an easy install on MX

Thanks to all the Slackware shills, been running for a few days now, quite happy.

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Be careful, Gentoofag is watching.

Sun Jun 30 22:45:12 UTC 2019d/Cython-0.29.11-x86_64-1.txz: Upgraded.t/texlive-2019.190626-x86_64-2.txz: Rebuilt. Patched tabu.sty to fix compiling doxygen. Thanks to Johannes Schoepfer and nobodino.x/mesa-19.1.1-x86_64-2.txz: Rebuilt. Don't build the swr Gallium driver on IA32 - it leads to an illegal instruction startup crash with CPUs that lack AVX support. Thanks to Jefferson and Johnson.xfce/thunar-volman-0.9.3-x86_64-1.txz: Upgraded.xfce/tumbler-0.2.5-x86_64-1.txz: Upgraded.

If I had an irrational hatred of systemd, I'd probably run Devuan. But I like systemd, so I'll continue to run my Debian/Ubuntu derived distro. :^)

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would not trust a distro thats made by gnu/fsf. they cant even keep the icecat web browser updated so theres no way that they could do it with a full distro.

systemd boot is very slow. runit is much faster.. actually the system is almost instantly usable after the bios screen is gone. systemd does lots of things slowly(its like 10 times the screen space of text instead of just few lines) and often gets stuck in some start/stop job infinitely or nearly infinitely

Devuan
Gentoo
MXLinux

Here's a nice video about OpenBSD rc.d
youtube.com/watch?v=pjHDvO_haQY

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Antix has systemd

How do you handle package management?

GNU isn't an one thing - you're comparing two totally different projects - icecat is maintained by only one person, whereas Guix is maintained by about 10 constant contributors and many more. And Guix has better funding, last year they received about 200K $, or something like this.

Nah. It briefly had systemd many years ago, then dropped it.

The only reason to use Chromium is that Firefox won't get properly pledge()'d anytime soon because Firefox isn't well privilege separated (marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152872551609819&w=2)

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i will never understand what kind of retard made the start/stop units have infinite timers. if that timer starts then your system wont ever boot and you need a usb stick or something that you can use to fix it. if it fails then fuck off and drop to a shell or something instead of stupidly sitting there doing nothing and locking the system.

I have a customized runit on a Allwinner A20 gentoo install, it basically boots instantly and that's from sdcard. Standard systemd-armbian on the same machine is not even nearly as fast and also eats a ton more resources to boot.

systemd/gnome are corporate products and corporations don't do things for communites, they do things for profit. Don't ever believe they have your interests in mind.

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...

I mean, this is more of an issue with efi then it is with systemd tbh.
EFI is shit like that. You can brick anymother board on any operating system simply by trying to access efivars

Why do you faggots sperg out over systemmd?

I've been doing minor customizations to the kernel config for my drivers and its handled as a package through version control. I inherit the original kernel package and get rid of 90% of the work that way. I do something similar to bump the version of gzdoom (inherit, then guix download and copy hash), so I can use the latest gzdoom. What are you on about?
There is also PatchELF if something is awry with some poorly thought out solution, like Appimages. You can also install Nix on GuixSD and it works fine with a little elbow grease. It is basically dead simple to bring in outside repos via channels as well. The real problem is stuff like pip is not going to work since it inherently messes with the immutability of the /gnu/store, so they have to make packages for all the Python stuff (but theres guix import, e.g. guix import pypi -r python-package >> user-python.scm). The nice thing is that Guix manages all these weird different things well (emacs lisp, python, perl, etc) all at once despite all being different and alien, once the packages are written.


GuixSD is new, it appeals to a certain audience, its too fresh and libre to be practical for many users. If you don't have any interest in using Emacs or writing any Scheme code, its probably not for you, writing the config.scm is writing Scheme (Guile specifically) code. You get the most out of it from a manual install as well since you configure it how you want that way, and thats not really for the sort of people who just want a preconfigured setup that just works without any messing around. It also lacks LVM and KDE, and theres only support for two kinds of filesystems (technically three or four if we count FAT32 boot partitions and swap partitions) in the config.scm, ext4 and Btrfs. Theres other caveats, but you get the idea.
However, the CoW immutable file store and functional package management design allows for profile and system generations to exist (they are automatically made when you do a package transaction or reconfigure the config.scm), allowing you to fix up your mistakes (system generations appear on the boot menu and you can select them) usually and keep track of everything very well. Its sort of like ZFS or Btrfs for packages. The layer of abstraction given by the config.scm enables you to do away with a lot of boring grunt work like messing with fstab and such as well.


Windows Update (for updates only but thats still a form of package management), Chocolatey (third party), plus Windows also needs to keep track of things through the registry if they are installed. Often this can lead to broken registry entries, and Windows Update itself has a tendency to break (moreso on certain versions of Windows). You can manually fix these problems usually, but a lot of people are too stupid to do it.

They keep it updated, especially on GuixSD. Icecat is based on Firefox ESR so it stays at the ESR versions.

Attached: graph-XhI7GS.png (13625x3131, 6.62M)

This was the deal-breaker for me. I wanted a btrfs on LVM on LUKS stack, which is unsupported due to lack of LVM. Also the guided installer is terrible. The "Wired" networking option assumes that DHCP is available and gets caught in a loop if it can't acquire an IP address, and the "Wireless" option just plain crashed when scanning SSIDs. I eventually got it installed using the manual installer, but by that stage I had come to understand that the project has potential, but isn't ready for production yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, you can interfere and possibly damage the motherboard firmware by wiping the main physical drive (or a certain volume on it) where some firmware-related files were located and are being kept for some reason?
Isn't the place of firmware shit on the EEPROM/flash chip and in NVRAM maybe? What business does it have to exist on a storage device which might be wiped or removed any moment?

You can have dm-crypt+LUKS and Btrfs but not LVM, if you were thinking you couldn't have LUKS for some reason. But yeah, if you need LVM for something else, you're out of luck. I noticed the guided installer was buggy too, managed to break it a lot (was curious how well it would work). The guided install kind of defeats the purpose of GuixSD anyway.

Yeah, I only have one partition to play with and needed LVM to include a swap volume within the LUKS container, alongside the Btrfs volume. The config I got working used a swapfile, but swapfile support on Btrfs is bugged and doesn't work in conjunction with snapshots. It was just one too many compromises for a daily driver. I'll give it another go when they add LVM support.

The main point of the screenshot was that SystemD doesn't have sane default behaviour. The whole problem could have been prevented, if SystemDick mounted efivars as read-only by default (the user programs and scripts could re-mount it as RW, when needed)


Lennart pls, read for starters


So, is Chocolatey actually reliable or is it just a botnet?


In UEFI, everything depends on how (un)lucky you got with the firmware that the manufacturer shipped your with MOBO.
BIOS' behaviour was more standard and reliable across different manufacturers.

The complaining about deleted troll messages in the github issue thing, well they were probably there at some point, he then gave a response to the issue subject. I think people just like to hate stuff very easily.

It is nonfree software, so probably botnet as well. He just gave examples of package managers existing on Windows.

Yep, I had the same problem recently, I even used their 1.0.1 release installer. I want to use GuixSD, but I'll wait until they iron out the bugs first. Fedora is working fine until then.

Why aren't you redpilled on BSD yet user?

containing subvolume cannot be snapshotted * swapfile - must
be preallocated * swapfile - must be nodatacow (ie. also
nodatasum) * swapfile - must not be compressed
It shouldn't matter if it is a single partition, on paper anyway. Create a Btrfs subvolume dedicated solely to swap without compression on that subvolume (to be extra safe, I guess), create the swapfile properly, set the btrfs compression property to none, etc. I have not tested the snapshot part myself, read the actual instructions and try it at your own risk. But then again you may know better than me, it doesn't appear to be an insurmountable issue based on the documentation I have read. I don't think there is a Btrfs automated snapshot tool in the repos yet anyway, although you could probably import some Python or Perl script easily enough.


I have no idea, I don't use it. I don't know why anyone would want to take a piss on one of Window's few advantages (static binaries being available everywhere) but some people want to spread the deb/rpm equivalent asscancer to Windows I guess.


It requires proprietary software to build it but it doesn't seem to be proprietary itself.

That would work. The problem I see with the subvolume approach, though, is that in Btrfs there's no real isolation between subvolumes because they all share the same data structures. It means that if the swap code decided to hose the swap subvolume there's a good chance it'd take out the whole filesystem with it. Swapfile support on Btrfs is still young/experimental code and I'm not confident trusting it on my main rig yet.

antiX for shit computers with no RAM.


MXlinux for the rest.

tried these both once. both were equally shitty.

That's a shame, but ideally the main drive(s) should be backed up regardless of the filesystem setup, not that I'm taking my own advice right now. I gotta get around to that someday...
Its worth noting that Btrfs is most stable on the stable kernel series, 5.1.x, and with the latest stable version of btrfs-progs. They've made some good progress there so far, hopefully within the next few years Btrfs will shake off its terrible reputation and become more stable.

gentoo eat crap:
Gentoo + compiled kernel + apps + no X + own flags = 100 MB RAM
default flags = 150 MB RAM

slackware binaries = 64 MB RAM

fuck you gentoo

Well, for starters, how many versions of the same package are you gonna get? 2? 3? 15? How many of them are going to have dependencies and dependants different from the "main tree"? See where I'm getting at? It's a nightmare. On a tangential note, how many storage are you gonna use?
You have posted some awful dependency graph yourself. Now imagine how much more it complicates when you add a fuckton of versions on top of it.
And ALL of these dependencies are gonna be maintained manually by you. I mean, sure, the PM will handle this shit for you "once the packages are written", but somebody gotta write them first LMAO. In case of your customizations, this is gonna be you, and you alone.
The outside repos are only good if they work for you. Same goes for the main repo, if course.

Got me here, I am a vi appreciator and a don't like LISP and functional paradigm in general. The only good thing coming out of FP is pure functions - fucking fight me on that, I dare you.
Why cannot it be declarative brain-dead little-to-no-syntax-encumbered code? Is there any reason to use this parentheses shit? Fuck y'all. Gentoo ebuilds are hardly better, I admit, but better still.
I get that it is undermaintained garbage and you know what? If I have knowledge and time to do that much of work, why wouldn't I just start my own one-person distro with my own PM and stuff, hmm? Tell me one fucking reason, just one.
I get that it is a powerful abstraction and potential of managing source-based Linux ecosystem here is actually immense. The problem comes from a) broken shit because of undermaintainage issues and b) general overengineering of your distro when you have your "immutable storage" all over the place.
Like, just thinking about maintaining this shit makes my head spin. Is it everything you do with your life, maintaining Linux distros? Get outta here.
And BTW, immutability idea is fucking garbage. Pure FP findmaxelem() algorithm will take O(N^2) data as it will allocate N, then N-1, N-2 etc shit recursively. CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS SHIT?
WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT OF THIS WHOLE PARADIGM THEN YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT SOYBOYS? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? JUST WRITE IMPERATIVE CODE WITH NO SIDE-EFFECTS THEN YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.
God I hate you all.

You never know - imagine you're using a system shared between many users - they could have many versions of the same program and Guix prevents the system from being messy. And just two programs using the same library can be a problem.
That's the graph showing dependencies of the entire distribution, not only a package manager. Believe me, if you made one for Gentoo, it wouldn't look simple either.
Guix automatically builds and maintains dependencies.
Give me one package manager you can use without having packages defined first.
I though those are Gentoo users who like customizations and having control over the system. Of course you have to do customizations yourself, nobody is going to rice your desktop or use specific kernel settings for you. And it seems Gentoo is all about that, strange USE flags, all these instructions on the wiki, it doesn't even have an installer. Is there a fairy under the hood that makes everything work on Gentoo?
Actually Scheme is a multi paradigm programming language the code of the package manager is not functional, but the package manager is functional - it treats package definitions, dependencies and source code as input data, then the data is processed and you get a compiled program - output data. input -> function -> output
Scheme is great, because its syntax can be extended by for example macros, giving you a great flexibility - you can define your own domain specific language using Scheme.
They're actually handy and after a month coding Scheme you stop seeing them, also people thing you're a wizard.
Spank me daddy.

I was asking about you (though you are probably a different fag, but it matters not). And I am not interested in that shilling. Users may use their home directory for anything still.
The point was that you would complicate it even further by adding more versions of the shit. Gentoo has package slotting too, but I find it just better to overwrite the old package and be done. Less to think about that way. Having multiple versions of the same package is a rare necessity and more of a luxury. You still can chroot into some different system if you want though.
Like, all these arguments add up to how the Guix is generally unnecessary as fuck. That post above was correct in that it is a niche distro, like, even more so than Gentoo.
Binary packages will generally do that for you, like, you don't have a whole script for them, but that obviously wasn't the point. The point is you don't have to maintain your whole lot of immutable piece of shit package definitions. Like, writing EVERYTHING down is not a good idea, really, and you guix shills give it as a major selling point for some reason.
BTW I hate everyone who uses -O3 in /etc/portage/make.conf (globally) PERSONALLY. I swear to Christ, if you say shit like that to me IRL I will punch you in the face, and once you fall down, I will start kicking you into everything until you stop moving.
There actually isn't and the most annoying shit about the portage in general is that you have to record USE flags in some files just to install some package, like,
a) you ran emerge shit
b) package shit wants some USE flag enabled in some other package
c) PIECE OF SHIT PORTAGE WANTS ME TO MAINTAIN A FUCKING RECORD SOMEWHERE LIKE WHAT THE FUCK DUDE YOU MAINTAIN THE PACKAGE DATABASE WITH ALL THE USE FLAGS AND SHIT HOW HARD IS IT TO JUST ENABLE THEM AND ASK ME IF I WANNA REBUILD THE PACKAGES??????////
And before I forgot, Guix is even worse, like, I have read that to define a package you have to include WHOLE LIST OF DEPENDENCIES OR ELSE THEY WON'T GET INCLUDED INTO THE ENVIRONMENT AND YOUR BUILD JUST BREAKS. Tell me this is a good design and not some braindamage, and I will shit on you even harder.
Oh look, great, you have LISP braindamage.
If I was that autistic and good at writing lexers/parsers/compilers I would write my language using basically anything right fucking now, OK? I'm picking a language to write my OS BTW, and I'm thinking Ada. Tell me this is a good/bad idea.
I don't want to use anything LISP ever, OK? I want to allocate my limited brain resources to something better than validating paretheses sequences. Just add []{} to this shit at least, OK?

Chocolatey is overengineered garbage. Use scoop.sh/ instead.
(sage for offtopic)

Putting packages there would be unnecessarily redundant and a totally irreproducible mess.
Yes, I'm a different fag, you have to wait for the first one, because I'm only a minor Guix shill.
It would be complicated for any other package manager, but Guix (or Nix) makes it easy to use - it tracks and manages multiple versions of the same package - you don't have to have a different system to run software or uninstall incompatible packages anymore, because Guix solves this, by separating packages. People fear having different versions of the same software, because their package managers often shit everything into /usr/ or /usr/local or whatever different directory making a file spaghetti. Why should it be like this?
AFAIK, package definitions are mutable, the thing that is immutable is the store, where derivations (built packages) are kept.

-Os is actually often better, especially for slower/lower-end machines with smaller caches. Especially ARM in my experience profits from -Os.