Systemd free distro

Thomas Gutierrez
Thomas Gutierrez

what is the ultimate systemd free distro?
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd
too many of them
doesn't have to be linux, so bsd or other shits also allowed

requirement: has to support web browser. the only acceptable web browser to use is Tor Browser. so it has to support it

Other urls found in this thread:

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd
sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_package_guide
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slackware
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Features.html#Features
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/System-Configuration.html#System-Configuration
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Development.html#Development
gnu.org/software/guix/blog/
bootstrappable.org/
nixos.org/~eelco/pubs/phd-thesis.pdf
bootstrappable.org
gnu.org/software/mes/
pkgs.org/download/chromium
youtube.com/watch?v=pjHDvO_haQY
marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152872551609819&w=2)
github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6035
lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2017-July/039255.html
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Systemd_components.svg
github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2447
scoop.sh/
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/guix.html#The-Store
gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/app-editors/gedit/gedit-3.30.2.ebuild
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-size.html
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-import.html
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-hash.html
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-download.html

Leo Lee
Leo Lee

Install Gentoo.

Lincoln Gonzalez
Lincoln Gonzalez

Gentoo is shit because it doesn't offer you binaries but you have to compile every stupid shit and waste time, energy
also good luck compiling a web browser with old PC

Carson Moore
Carson Moore

I've tried maybe 4? Out of which only 2 ran fine on my system. Looking into Alpine Linux "extended", says it runs on RAM. GOnna check that out.

Benjamin Phillips
Benjamin Phillips

Why is the formatting broken on the https version
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

Austin Hernandez
Austin Hernandez

I don't want spicy food
Gentoo restaurant buffets
w-what about if I am old?

Enjoy your systemdick. Talking as if Gentoo doesn't support any binary programs, and you use your computer every single second.

Anthony Torres
Anthony Torres

Guix System
Lol, because Gentoo is shitty. Check out Guix System. Guix is a source-based, functional package manager and builds are reproducible, which means you don't have to build the software you want use yourself. You can just download a binary 'substitute' and it is guaranteed to be byte-to-byte the same as if you built it yourself.

Kevin Brown
Kevin Brown

has to complete a complex and arduous obstacle course before being allowed into the buffet, and kicked back to sqaure one if he fucks up ANYTHING in the process
<at least the food isn't spicy :^)

Wyatt Harris
Wyatt Harris

this. Gentoo is the sanest GNU+Linux distribution.

Gavin Ramirez
Gavin Ramirez

Devuan, it literally just fucking werks on all the machines I've tried it on and its not a pain in the ass to deal with.

Carter Scott
Carter Scott

If gentoo is too difficult to handle for you you should just do everyone in the gnu/linux community a favor and install Windows 10.

Nicholas Clark
Nicholas Clark

Calculate, it's based on Gentoo and it just werks if you don't want to have to sit through hours of compiling time.
<inb4 why don't you just install X instead of a Gentoo based distro if you're not going to compile?
I've had problems with almost every other distro I've tried, and Calculate has given me a total of 0 problems (I guess that's why they say that Gentoo is super stable), and not only that but Portage is bretty good, even if you are using an overlay with binaries.

Xavier Robinson
Xavier Robinson

Devuan is bloat

Cooper Jackson
Cooper Jackson

obviously os x is the ultimate systemd replacement

Blake Perry
Blake Perry

Why would you not want to have syshemd, one of the best pieces of software to grace the GNU / Linux ecosystem?

Aiden Cook
Aiden Cook

this

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Parker Clark
Parker Clark

tor browser
pre-compiled shit
binaries all require dbus
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Julian Adams
Julian Adams

Devuan, it literally just fucking werks on all the machines I've tried it on and its not a pain in the ass to deal with.
This, works like a charm on my older machines.
Devuan is bloat
Everything is Bloat! Instead of giving a suggestion for a better solution... Anyhow a trimmed version of Devuan: sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/

Andrew Jackson
Andrew Jackson

wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_package_guide

Xavier Jenkins
Xavier Jenkins

This

Evan Murphy
Evan Murphy

Void

if you're feeling edgy:
HardenedBSD

Brayden Davis
Brayden Davis

Come home

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Jaxon Nelson
Jaxon Nelson

Void Linux

Isaac Wright
Isaac Wright

Gentoo has been around for nearly 20 years and works very well. Guix is poorly documented and buggy trash.

Ethan Ross
Ethan Ross

retard alert
guix is a shit LARPer os for hobbyists and autists, Gentoo you can use for something other than fapping to Richard Stallman's foot cheese

Cooper Ortiz
Cooper Ortiz

Oldest and best distro. While the rest of the Linux sphere chases the latest features and pioneers new ways to break your shit and hide control from you, Slackware stays true to it's course.

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Robert Phillips
Robert Phillips

guix is a shit LARPer os for hobbyists and autists, Gentoo you can use for something other than fapping to Richard Stallman's foot cheese
Sorry you can't have reproducible builds or system bootstrapping on your shitty Gentoo, but my LARPer's disrtibution provides these things. I guess you put your dick into a porthole everyday.

Gabriel Mitchell
Gabriel Mitchell

Artix

Bentley Lopez
Bentley Lopez

There is a reason why ol' slacky is still used heavily to this day.
It really is one of the best distros.

Daniel Carter
Daniel Carter

Sup

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William Richardson
William Richardson

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slackware
The package management system does not track or manage dependencies; however, when performing the recommended full install, all dependencies of the stock packages are met. For custom installations or 3rd-party packages, Slackware relies on the user to ensure that the system has all the supporting system libraries and programs required by the program.
It doesn't sound great to me, dependency management is a basic feature every package manager should have. Why would I have to do it myself, if it could be automated?

Dominic Murphy
Dominic Murphy

Slackware is interested only in packages it ships, aka contents of PACKAGES.TXT on ftp mirrors. It works more or less as a snapshot – if one package is updated on the server, every single dependency will be rebuilt as well and end-user's upgrade process will pull it as well. Kind of like a snapshot. It's a remarkably simple, non-demanding on resources (since packages are literally tarballs that unpack into root filesystem) and works very well unless you're an idiot.
Anything outside of Slackware is considered user's responsibility (or second- and third-party project's, like slackbuilds.org's). In many ways Slackware is one of the last true software distributions.

Juan Rivera
Juan Rivera

The intended way™ to use Slackware and not give a fuck is just install EVERY package distro itself provides and never worry about it again.
As for the quality, like, I wouldn't suck Patrick's dick, but his distro is alright.

Dylan Jackson
Dylan Jackson

Slackware is interested only in packages it ships, aka contents of PACKAGES.TXT on ftp mirrors.
Seems to be a really simple solution, easy to implement but hard to use...
In many ways Slackware is one of the last true software distributions.
Could you explain this?
The intended way™ to use Slackware and not give a fuck is just install EVERY package distro itself provides and never worry about it again.
Doesn't sound minimalistic.

Ok but what if you want to remove a package, which has a lot of dependencies? Will Slackware remove trashes left after this package? And I still don't get it, what's the advantage of having to install dependencies manually? Even APT manages your dependencies somehow, but managers like Guix or Nix take it to the higher level. With Guix packages are treated in the functional way input -> processing -> data. Thanks to this approach packages, environments and the whole systems are reproducible. On Slackware if I built a program while having it's dependencies installed and then if I gave the binary to someone else, who don't have just one dependency installed, the program woundn't work. And what about DLL hell? What if I want to have two versions of the same program/library, will Slackware handle this?

Thomas Wright
Thomas Wright

Slackware is not minimalistic, it's slack LMAO
Will Slackware remove trashes left after this package?
No? It's not fucking trash, every package is either installed or it isn't. You can have packages installed with de-facto dependencies missing and get "cannot find so library" messages for them. But you WON'T get this ever if you just install everything alright?
With Guix packages are treated in the functional way input -> processing -> data. Thanks to this approach packages, environments and the whole systems are reproducible.
What the fuck with all the guix shilling? Reproducability ain't shit if you are crazy on customization, and Slackware isn't source based anyway. What the heck?
On Slackware if I built a program while having it's dependencies installed and then if I gave the binary to someone else, who don't have just one dependency installed, the program woundn't work.
No shit. Just like with every other distibution.
What if I want to have two versions of the same program/library, will Slackware handle this?
I dunno exactly, probably install into different prefix with a custom slackbuild script? Slackware doesn't hold your hand here, think of something yourself.

And look, nobody's here gonna shill slack for you. I just happened to use it in the past and I abandoned it, 'cause it's kinda a drag and it's basically a one-man distro, like, there are other people working on that, I guess, but it's the benevolent dicktator himself who makes the calls. You either take it or leave it.

William Harris
William Harris

How do you guys feel about Salix? I am feeling rather frisky today and looking to nuke my hard drive and start fresh™ and I am between slack and Salix.

Ryder Gutierrez
Ryder Gutierrez

Never used it.

Chase Martin
Chase Martin

Salix is pretty good. It's basically Slackware stable with more polish and a smaller, more focused install. One application per task, one mail client, one web browser, one terminal, etc. As apposed to Slackware which will include every application from KDE, xfce4, plus a handful of others due to popularity (if you do a full install that is). It also packages a little more than Slackware does, but it's backwards compatible so if you want use their repo in Slackware it should just werk. Salix's package manager, slapt, also kind of does dependency management. It's using Slackware packaging with a little extra information added to salix's package files to to give it required and optional dependencies.

Before I used Slackware 90% of the time if my system got borked it was from something a package manager, helper program/script, or overly "smart" init system/service manager did, or poor choices by the maintainers. Slackware's package manager, scant few helper scripts, and init are all simple shell scripts, and if you don't want to use them they can be safely ignored, and they will never do anything you didn't tell them to or more than they were originally designed to. Fetching your own dependencies might be a little bit of a pain, but it's nice having a distro that is bedrock solid and doesn't have any surprises for you.

If you want to keep track of dependencies in programs you install, I recommend just keeping a file of package notes. for example:

name: qemu
notes: x86 virtual machine
required: SDL2
optional: libacard spice usbedir virglrenderer device-tree-compiler libnfs snappy glusterfs vde2 libseccomp

Then when you remove qemu, you can search the file for instances of qemu to see if anything depends on it, and you can see that it depends on SDL2, and you can search the file for other instances of SDL2 to see if its safe to remove as well, that way you can keep track of what was installed as a dep and why if you want to clean up. Most things you will want to install won't require many dependencies outside of the full install. I specifically chose qemu as an example because it has the most out of anything else in my pkgnotes file.

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Jeremiah Stewart
Jeremiah Stewart

Is MX Linux any good?

Jordan Gonzalez
Jordan Gonzalez

No? It's not fucking trash, every package is either installed or it isn't.
Useless dependencies after a package I don't use anymore are trash for me.
But you WON'T get this ever if you just install everything alright?
On Guix I won't ever have such a problem, because it installs everything alright for me.
What the fuck with all the guix shilling? Reproducability ain't shit if you are crazy on customization, and Slackware isn't source based anyway.
What if your customization is reproducible? You don't have to compile everything on Guix System, you can use binary substitutes as well, but they're reproducible after all.
What the heck?
Guix has many advantages, most notably:
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Features.html#Features
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/System-Configuration.html#System-Configuration
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Development.html#Development
No shit. Just like with every other distibution.
Not or Guix System or NixOS, these distributions solve the problem of "DLL hell"
Slackware doesn't hold your hand here, think of something yourself.
Guix does.
And look, nobody's here gonna shill slack for you.
I asked, because I thought people using it know exactly what are the special features, but it only doesn't use systemd.
You either take it or leave it.
I'll probably leave now.

Anthony Green
Anthony Green

Are you getting paid for this shillt or what?
Because I wouldn't do that for free.

Tyler Roberts
Tyler Roberts

Ok, so it is a distribution for people who perfectly know how the system works and are better in managing dependencies and services than software they use. It is cool, somehow... But I rather like automation, that's what computers are for after all.
I know now why Slackware doesn't use systemd - resolving its dependencies by hand would be hell.

Zachary Green
Zachary Green

Are you getting paid for this shillt or what?
I don't know what's wrong with you. Guix System is the official GNU distribution, is systemd-free and is compliant with Free System Distribution Guidelines. Read about its advantages, and then say if it is good or bad, but for now you haven't told what's wrong with it at all.

Nathan Gray
Nathan Gray

Guix System is the official GNU distribution
GNU software is garbage in general but that's beside the point.
Who the fuck even uses that distro? Like, you can see live slackers around everywhere, you can see debian/devuan fucks, you can see arch kids, you can see gentoo shmucks, ubuntu, opensuse, mandrake or even kali linux larpers, but guix is just whatever. Do people even use it? Fuck if I know.
I don't know what's wrong with you.
I dunno what's the problem with YOU. You (most probably) have already contributed to the thread with guix proposition earlier, and now you're fucking with slackers who in fact unironically manage dependencies manually. I know Slackware is very special, but this just ain't right. You said "guix", "reproducible builds" just too many times, fuken shill.
Read about its advantages, and then say if it is good or bad, but for now you haven't told what's wrong with it at all.
Let's say that if it doesn't have the same degree of reasonably easy flexibility Gentoo has, it's fuken useless, because guess what - gentoo is the best source based shit I know of and it's still has major flaws.
Also people above say it's buggy too, and that's some useful information. Gentoo has bugs too, but really not as much, and if that shit got bugs in their "reproducible" management system, it fucking just blows the whole thing away.
Other than that, I don't care about reproducability for the sake of it. It's not hard to achieve if you know what you're doing.
And reading about this shit can fuck off. Actual user experience is more important.

Grayson Jenkins
Grayson Jenkins

Do people even use it? Fuck if I know.
1.0 version was released just a month ago, don't expect it to have more users than distributions having 20 years or more. And yes people are using it, even for real things, for example bioinformatics. Check out the blog gnu.org/software/guix/blog/
I dunno what's the problem with YOU.
At least I'm not bitching around and SHOUTING AT PEOPLE WITH CAPSLOCK.
I know Slackware is very special, but this just ain't right. You said "guix", "reproducible builds" just too many times, fuken shill.
Guix has some special features, almost no other distribution has. I'm referring to it, because in my opinion Guix is the best disribution, so I compare other distributions with it to check if there is something better. But I'm asking Slackware guys gently, because I wan't to know what's special about Slackware. I'm not forcing them to use Guix.
Let's say that if it doesn't have the same degree of reasonably easy flexibility Gentoo has, it's fuken useless, because guess what - gentoo is the best source based shit I know of and it's still has major flaws.
It is still a fresh distribution, but it has some features Gentoo doesn't - binary bootstrapping, reproducibility, whole system configurations in one language and even something similar to USE flags, but client-side.
Also people above say it's buggy too, and that's some useful information.
1.0.0 contained a bug, because they didn't have tests written for GUI installer, but it was fixed in 1.0.1.
ther than that, I don't care about reproducability for the sake of it. It's not hard to achieve if you know what you're doing.
Lol, what's the point in having a source-based Gentoo, if the builds are not reproducible? How can you trust your compiler?
bootstrappable.org/

Connor Barnes
Connor Barnes

It's just AntiX with bloat. I don't really see a point personally, but it's probably better than Devuan if you're that determined to use a Debian-based distro.

Daniel Campbell
Daniel Campbell

package managers
windows doesn't have this shit and works perfectly
want to use software? download .exe and install
don't want to use it anymore? uninstall

package managers and dependencies are just unix brain damage

Luke Edwards
Luke Edwards

I have read about a little bit. Overall it's not that impressive. Like, there's no innovation here. It's evident that's there's a lot of hard work and good thought put into the whole meta thing, but I don't see, like, any improvement on how that shit would handle feature dependencies. Like, I see you can pass options to build systems but hey, I don't need no build system to do that.
However, any other dependencies need to be specified in the inputs field. Any dependency not specified here will simply be unavailable to the build process, possibly leading to a build failure.
What a dumb shit.
It also helps maximize build reproducibility: thanks to the isolated build environments that are used, a given build is likely to yield bit-identical files when performed on different machines
LMAO
They are way more honest with their wording than you are.
At least I'm not bitching around and SHOUTING AT PEOPLE WITH CAPSLOCK.
I shout only @ retarded shitstains who need to be put down alright.
because in my opinion Guix is the best disribution
Dude, did you use that shit? What for? Other distros? What for? Get outta here with your junk.
if there is something better
Well, hot redpill for you - Linux is a hot steaming pile of shit up from the kernel all the way down to freedesktop shit. There are good bits here and there but SYSTEM is bad in a lot of ways. The effort behind this guix system is inclusive and not reformative. The bugs in compiler, gmake, autotools and what not will remain where they are, so, maybe that shit is good at reproducing bugs, fuck me sideways.
How can you trust your compiler?
Well, do they use some compiler other than GCC? Get outta here with that nonsense.

Brandon Young
Brandon Young

It's more because the only new things systemd brings to the table is automatic cgroup management for services and faster boot times. Slackware added a few scripts that allow admins to configure the use of cgroups if that is desired, and the boot time isn't a concern when you only reboot after kernel patches or ucode updates (also, even single threaded, modern machines are so fast, is anyone honestly sweating the extra 3-7 seconds?). Most importantly though, Slackware's rc scripts still work, and are simple to use, read, and edit. Slackware 14.2 is managed just the same as 8.1, which is just the same as 1.1. It's not broke, so Pat isn't fixing it.

I know systemd added more than that, but most of it it's arguable if it is really an advancement or just doing things differently for the sake of it.

If you want more automation there are plently of scripts out there like sbopkg and sbotools for building slackbuilds.org packages, and slapt-get or slackpkg+ for installing from third party binary repos, or you can always roll your own if you feel up to it. Some of these have dependency management but it's only half implemented. Basically if the package/SlackBuild does include deps it will pull the required ones, but not optional ones, and none if the package doesn't list any, I'd avoid it for packages with more complicated deps. Personally I use sbopkg to automate slackbuilds.org builds, and keep notes on the packages as in , and slackpkg+ to keep a couple binary packages i got from from AlienBob's repo up to date.

But I'm asking Slackware guys gently, because I wan't to know what's special about Slackware.
Simplicity and consistency. It seems like a pain due to the lack of built in automation, but the pains of working without the automation, even over time, is much less than the pains of cleaning up after poorly documented, distro specific software and patches when they go off the rails all because the maintainers made some assumptions that didn't include your use-case/configuration. Also, Slackware doesn't patch upstream unless necessary, so if it's a bug it's a bug with upstream, not something Slackware specific. Makes finding solutions much easier.

Asher Butler
Asher Butler

Like, there's no innovation here.
I don't want to repeat myself. I told what the innovations are, things only Nix and Guix have. There's a whole paper written about functional package management nixos.org/~eelco/pubs/phd-thesis.pdf
They are way more honest with their wording than you are.
It isn't easy to provide reproducible builds, but doing nothing about it is not going to help. I checked once on the Gentoo's wiki, and there's not a single page about reproducibility, they simply don't care.
Well, hot redpill for you - Linux is a hot steaming pile of shit up from the kernel all the way down to freedesktop shit.
Well, hot redpill for you - Linux is just a kernel, GNU/Linux is the system. Kernel is shit, because it is monolithic. There's the Hurd with better architecture (yes, that's this garbage GNU software, better than Linux).
The effort behind this guix system is inclusive and not reformative.
<totally different approach to package management
<unifying the system, by implementing one system-wide language
<increasing trust and security by reproducibility and bootstrapping programming languages and the whole system
not reformative
Well, do they use some compiler other than GCC? Get outta here with that nonsense.
I gave you link to bootstrappable.org but you've probably ignored that. Bootstrapping gcc and GNU/Linux distribution is one of main goals of Guix System they have wip bootstrapping software - Mes gnu.org/software/mes/
These projects are first of its kind, but they're not innovative for you. Read the fucking papers, most importantly "Trusting the trust", without it, don't even talk to me, because you don't even know how ignorant you are by saying "I don't care about reproducibility".

I know systemd added more than that, but most of it it's arguable if it is really an advancement or just doing things differently for the sake of it.
Good to know there still people who don't fall into Poettering lies and all these "features" he lists on his blog.
Simplicity and consistency. [...]
Also thanks for explaining this to me it is much better than "your distro is shit" guy above. Maybe I'll check it out in a VM one day.

Xavier Hall
Xavier Hall

I don't want to repeat myself. I told what the innovations are, things only Nix
Well, you said yourself. NixOS did the innovation years ago. And guess what, I didn't hear much from nixos users either. It's like it starts and ends with gentoo as far as source-based distros go.
As for how exactly innovative that is, well, it's another layer of scripting above, essentially. Maybe better scripting than shell spaghetti, but there are fundamental flaws with that approach.
but doing nothing about it is not going to help
To help with what, exactly? What do you do if toolchain fucks up and doesn't produce consistent results? Well, you stop using your damn toolchain for a start and start debugging, not doing some reproducibility nonsense.
Well, hot redpill for you - Linux is just a kernel, GNU/Linux is the system. Kernel is shit, because it is monolithic. There's the Hurd with better architecture (yes, that's this garbage GNU software, better than Linux).
The point went over your head and you went on a tangent, because you are a stupid butthurt motherfucker.
Bootstrapping gcc and GNU/Linux distribution is one of main goals of Guix System
Look at the world giving a fuck. Do you live under a rock?
GCC is built by default by compiling itself 3 times over, each new time with a version from the previous time.
Gentoo builds stages, DUH. These are used in scripts that use stages to build stages. Maybe it's not strict reproducibility, I didn't play with them enough, but I think you can get bit-by-bit stages, for example.
You can't trust code that you did not totally create yourself.
Old news, buddy. Did you write your own compiler, punk? Then fuck off.
"I don't care about reproducibility"
In a current Linux ecosystem, I don't. It's useless.
Also thanks for explaining this to me it is much better than "your distro is shit" guy above
His words are general as fuck, but whatever.
Let me teach you secrets on how to make rock-stable simple&consistent loonix distro. You follow GNU guys on what basic toolchain versions (binutils-gcc-glibc) tools they use together. Or maybe not, just pick whatever close by date and stick to it. You build your basic system (there are different ways of building up to a host-independent platform) and you are basically self-hosted now. After that you carefully pick software and build the rest, while using that shit, because oh boy there gonna be bugs. After you have your package set, you freeze everything in place and basically don't touch anything basic unless you absolutely need to. Call that "release". That's how slack is done, though they expose their mid-of-the-road updates and security updates in slackware-current, their kinda rolling release place. They are not usually basic updates, so it's not painful to update.
Now, the rolling release distros have ongoing update, which might suffer quality costs and might break on rare updates, like, if the system moves so fast that your latest sync will skip some important assumption (it is a shitty thing by devs, but might happen). Those rolling release might have different, well, let's call them flavors, for like unstable/testing/stable, which means basically if you want new shit, move to unstable, if you want slightly less bugs, move to stable. Slackware is very stable, it's stable as fuck, the quality of maintainer work here is good (as I said earlier), and that's what actually matters, not some reproducibility bullshit.

Blake White
Blake White

want to remove a package, which has a lot of dependencies
I'd suggest checking both the set it's in and the sets' tagfile. The packages are marked as required, recommended or optional. The latter two are generally safe to delete.
Some sets can be omitted entirely, for example I never bother with E(macs) or XFCE, KDE and KDEI (all of which are optional or recommended).
In theory, only the A set is necessary to have a working system. It's bare minimum though.
Slackware doesn't really have a lot of crust though

Jaxson Adams
Jaxson Adams

Seriously guys, Slackware is shit because it is one of the many "You must use the communist Firefox browser comrade!"

Limiting the package selection due to lazyness or politics is always a distro-killer.

Eli Gonzalez
Eli Gonzalez

Are you some kind of bozo? Didn't even check slackbuilds or web search? Why would someone lie on the Internet.
pkgs.org/download/chromium

Dominic Hernandez
Dominic Hernandez

Why the hell would anyone use Chromium? Its even more diseased than Firecucks at this point. And the fact you can /technically/ install it with a script in terminal is nice, but very non-optimal compared with just using a damn package manger.

There are decent, well maintained, not fucked forks of both.

So, again, this is lazyness, or communism.

Brody Collins
Brody Collins

Guix, IceCat has tor button

Caleb Lopez
Caleb Lopez

All you said earlier is Slackware forces you to use Firefox. Well it doesn't.

Christian Wood
Christian Wood

Slackbuilds also has palemoon, qutebrowser, surf, and dozens of others. There are packages managers for slackbuilds, and third party binary repos for slackware's slackpkg too.

Also Slackware comes more than just Firefox, Firefox is just the actively maintained/fully featured of the included browsers. Are you just butthurt that they dared make it the default? Do you choose your distros based on their default web browser?

Jaxson Peterson
Jaxson Peterson

MX has it but it's disabled
Tor was also an easy install on MX

Carson Miller
Carson Miller

Thanks to all the Slackware shills, been running for a few days now, quite happy.

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Hudson James
Hudson James

Be careful, Gentoofag is watching.

James White
James White

Sun Jun 30 22:45:12 UTC 2019
d/Cython-0.29.11-x86_64-1.txz: Upgraded.
t/texlive-2019.190626-x86_64-2.txz: Rebuilt.
Patched tabu.sty to fix compiling doxygen.
Thanks to Johannes Schoepfer and nobodino.
x/mesa-19.1.1-x86_64-2.txz: Rebuilt.
Don't build the swr Gallium driver on IA32 - it leads to an illegal
instruction startup crash with CPUs that lack AVX support.
Thanks to Jefferson and Johnson.
xfce/thunar-volman-0.9.3-x86_64-1.txz: Upgraded.
xfce/tumbler-0.2.5-x86_64-1.txz: Upgraded.

Samuel Reed
Samuel Reed

If I had an irrational hatred of systemd, I'd probably run Devuan. But I like systemd, so I'll continue to run my Debian/Ubuntu derived distro. :^)

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Samuel Martin
Samuel Martin

would not trust a distro thats made by gnu/fsf. they cant even keep the icecat web browser updated so theres no way that they could do it with a full distro.

Oliver Jenkins
Oliver Jenkins

systemd boot is very slow. runit is much faster.. actually the system is almost instantly usable after the bios screen is gone. systemd does lots of things slowly(its like 10 times the screen space of text instead of just few lines) and often gets stuck in some start/stop job infinitely or nearly infinitely

Xavier Baker
Xavier Baker

Devuan
Gentoo
MXLinux

Eli Wood
Eli Wood

Here's a nice video about OpenBSD rc.d
youtube.com/watch?v=pjHDvO_haQY

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Carter Hall
Carter Hall

Antix has systemd

Nathan Gonzalez
Nathan Gonzalez

How do you handle package management?

Nicholas Sullivan
Nicholas Sullivan

GNU isn't an one thing - you're comparing two totally different projects - icecat is maintained by only one person, whereas Guix is maintained by about 10 constant contributors and many more. And Guix has better funding, last year they received about 200K $, or something like this.

Adam Moore
Adam Moore

Nah. It briefly had systemd many years ago, then dropped it.

Daniel Thomas
Daniel Thomas

The only reason to use Chromium is that Firefox won't get properly pledge()'d anytime soon because Firefox isn't well privilege separated (marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152872551609819&w=2)

SystemD
muh fastest init
<RunIT is faster and a lot more lightweight and stable
Also, SystemD seems to suffer from some kind of weird recurring bug that causes it to fail to kill some processes when you poweroff/reboot your system. This is not FUD. In the past, I have ran multiple GNU/Linux distros that have SystemD: Arch Linux (for 2 years), Debian (for 4 years) and Fedora (for little less than a year) on multiple different computers one laptop and two desktops. SystemD is the only init system that has this problem.
muh easy to write init scrips (unit files)
<All that the unit files do is that they hide information. This will just bite you in the ass later on when the script doesn't behave as you might expect. github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6035
<... or when SystemD's behavior changes after an update: lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2017-July/039255.html
<All competent sysadmins already knew how to write scripts for traditional init system
<RunIT is very simple to configure
<You won't modify init scripts very often

On top of these issues:
<SystemD trying to be everything and do everything. SystemD suffers from terminal stage chronic feature creep and bloat.
<upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Systemd_components.svg
SystemD is a bootloader, syslog, ntpd, cron, dhcp (networkd), etc. etc.
BTW, has Poettering named any other init systems that might have inspired SystemD? SystemD sounds a lot like Apple's launchd (and svchost.exe, apparently), if you ask me
Actually, SystemD is entirely new layer of complexity that's inserted on top of typical GNU/Linux OS. What's more, it tries to creep in as a dependency (GNOME 3).
Also, SystemD's logging functionality uses binary logs by default (really poor design decision in the even of a catastrophic system failure) While we are on the topic of logs, read github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2447 (the TL;DR is that journald can't filter what gets logged)
On top of all this, SystemD isn't really modular in the reality, and SystemD is also Linux-only.

<SystemD is so complex that it's impossible to understand it all and keep track on commits and new features
<The larger and more complex the piece of software is, the harder it is to maintain and the more bugs it will have
<On top of this it was heavily (((Bandwagon'd))), and now most users of GNU/Linux run SystemD
SystemD is one of prime targets where I would insert a backdoor, if I was bioluminescent.
<SystemD actually bricked someone's computer (see pic related)
<SystemD's developers have weird attitude problems ("lol notabug", trying to add code into the kernel instead of fixing their software and taking criticism too personally)
<Also, in my opinion, SystemD is example of GNU/Linux getting subverted by a corporation (Red Hat)

There aren't any valid reason to submit to SystemDick botnet.

Install Salix OS if you want to have a sane version of Slackware. Otherwise, just install Gentoo.

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Nicholas Foster
Nicholas Foster

i will never understand what kind of retard made the start/stop units have infinite timers. if that timer starts then your system wont ever boot and you need a usb stick or something that you can use to fix it. if it fails then fuck off and drop to a shell or something instead of stupidly sitting there doing nothing and locking the system.

Christian Anderson
Christian Anderson

I have a customized runit on a Allwinner A20 gentoo install, it basically boots instantly and that's from sdcard. Standard systemd-armbian on the same machine is not even nearly as fast and also eats a ton more resources to boot.

systemd/gnome are corporate products and corporations don't do things for communites, they do things for profit. Don't ever believe they have your interests in mind.

Carter Watson
Carter Watson

rm can brick a motherboard

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Gabriel Garcia
Gabriel Garcia

Antix
virtually all the releases' codenames are some commie SJW hero figures

Carter James
Carter James

I mean, this is more of an issue with efi then it is with systemd tbh.
EFI is shit like that. You can brick anymother board on any operating system simply by trying to access efivars

Hunter Thompson
Hunter Thompson

Why do you faggots sperg out over systemmd?

Joseph Morgan
Joseph Morgan

Reproducability ain't shit if you are crazy on customization
I've been doing minor customizations to the kernel config for my drivers and its handled as a package through version control. I inherit the original kernel package and get rid of 90% of the work that way. I do something similar to bump the version of gzdoom (inherit, then guix download and copy hash), so I can use the latest gzdoom. What are you on about?
There is also PatchELF if something is awry with some poorly thought out solution, like Appimages. You can also install Nix on GuixSD and it works fine with a little elbow grease. It is basically dead simple to bring in outside repos via channels as well. The real problem is stuff like pip is not going to work since it inherently messes with the immutability of the /gnu/store, so they have to make packages for all the Python stuff (but theres guix import, e.g. guix import pypi -r python-package >> user-python.scm). The nice thing is that Guix manages all these weird different things well (emacs lisp, python, perl, etc) all at once despite all being different and alien, once the packages are written.

Who the fuck even uses that distro?
GuixSD is new, it appeals to a certain audience, its too fresh and libre to be practical for many users. If you don't have any interest in using Emacs or writing any Scheme code, its probably not for you, writing the config.scm is writing Scheme (Guile specifically) code. You get the most out of it from a manual install as well since you configure it how you want that way, and thats not really for the sort of people who just want a preconfigured setup that just works without any messing around. It also lacks LVM and KDE, and theres only support for two kinds of filesystems (technically three or four if we count FAT32 boot partitions and swap partitions) in the config.scm, ext4 and Btrfs. Theres other caveats, but you get the idea.
However, the CoW immutable file store and functional package management design allows for profile and system generations to exist (they are automatically made when you do a package transaction or reconfigure the config.scm), allowing you to fix up your mistakes (system generations appear on the boot menu and you can select them) usually and keep track of everything very well. Its sort of like ZFS or Btrfs for packages. The layer of abstraction given by the config.scm enables you to do away with a lot of boring grunt work like messing with fstab and such as well.

Windows Update (for updates only but thats still a form of package management), Chocolatey (third party), plus Windows also needs to keep track of things through the registry if they are installed. Often this can lead to broken registry entries, and Windows Update itself has a tendency to break (moreso on certain versions of Windows). You can manually fix these problems usually, but a lot of people are too stupid to do it.

they cant even keep the icecat web browser updated..
They keep it updated, especially on GuixSD. Icecat is based on Firefox ESR so it stays at the ESR versions.

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Joseph Green
Joseph Green

It also lacks LVM
This was the deal-breaker for me. I wanted a btrfs on LVM on LUKS stack, which is unsupported due to lack of LVM. Also the guided installer is terrible. The "Wired" networking option assumes that DHCP is available and gets caught in a loop if it can't acquire an IP address, and the "Wireless" option just plain crashed when scanning SSIDs. I eventually got it installed using the manual installer, but by that stage I had come to understand that the project has potential, but isn't ready for production yet.

John Sullivan
John Sullivan

Correct me if I'm wrong, you can interfere and possibly damage the motherboard firmware by wiping the main physical drive (or a certain volume on it) where some firmware-related files were located and are being kept for some reason?
Isn't the place of firmware shit on the EEPROM/flash chip and in NVRAM maybe? What business does it have to exist on a storage device which might be wiped or removed any moment?

Samuel Peterson
Samuel Peterson

You can have dm-crypt+LUKS and Btrfs but not LVM, if you were thinking you couldn't have LUKS for some reason. But yeah, if you need LVM for something else, you're out of luck. I noticed the guided installer was buggy too, managed to break it a lot (was curious how well it would work). The guided install kind of defeats the purpose of GuixSD anyway.

Henry Lopez
Henry Lopez

Yeah, I only have one partition to play with and needed LVM to include a swap volume within the LUKS container, alongside the Btrfs volume. The config I got working used a swapfile, but swapfile support on Btrfs is bugged and doesn't work in conjunction with snapshots. It was just one too many compromises for a daily driver. I'll give it another go when they add LVM support.

William Diaz
William Diaz

The main point of the screenshot was that SystemD doesn't have sane default behaviour. The whole problem could have been prevented, if SystemDick mounted efivars as read-only by default (the user programs and scripts could re-mount it as RW, when needed)

oy vey goyim! why don't you use systemd?
Lennart pls, read for starters

Chocolatey
So, is Chocolatey actually reliable or is it just a botnet?

In UEFI, everything depends on how (un)lucky you got with the firmware that the manufacturer shipped your with MOBO.
BIOS' behaviour was more standard and reliable across different manufacturers.

Ethan Moore
Ethan Moore

The complaining about deleted troll messages in the github issue thing, well they were probably there at some point, he then gave a response to the issue subject. I think people just like to hate stuff very easily.

Liam Smith
Liam Smith

So, is Chocolatey actually reliable or is it just a botnet?
It is nonfree software, so probably botnet as well. He just gave examples of package managers existing on Windows.

Connor Campbell
Connor Campbell

Also the guided installer is terrible. The "Wired" networking option assumes that DHCP is available and gets caught in a loop if it can't acquire an IP address, and the "Wireless" option just plain crashed when scanning SSIDs.
Yep, I had the same problem recently, I even used their 1.0.1 release installer. I want to use GuixSD, but I'll wait until they iron out the bugs first. Fedora is working fine until then.

Parker Gray
Parker Gray

BSD
4 results found
Why aren't you redpilled on BSD yet user?

James Foster
James Foster

+ * filesystem - must be only single device * swapfile - the
containing subvolume cannot be snapshotted * swapfile - must
be preallocated * swapfile - must be nodatacow (ie. also
nodatasum) * swapfile - must not be compressed
It shouldn't matter if it is a single partition, on paper anyway. Create a Btrfs subvolume dedicated solely to swap without compression on that subvolume (to be extra safe, I guess), create the swapfile properly, set the btrfs compression property to none, etc. I have not tested the snapshot part myself, read the actual instructions and try it at your own risk. But then again you may know better than me, it doesn't appear to be an insurmountable issue based on the documentation I have read. I don't think there is a Btrfs automated snapshot tool in the repos yet anyway, although you could probably import some Python or Perl script easily enough.

I have no idea, I don't use it. I don't know why anyone would want to take a piss on one of Window's few advantages (static binaries being available everywhere) but some people want to spread the deb/rpm equivalent asscancer to Windows I guess.

It requires proprietary software to build it but it doesn't seem to be proprietary itself.

Nicholas James
Nicholas James

Create a Btrfs subvolume dedicated solely to swap without compression on that subvolume (to be extra safe, I guess), create the swapfile properly, set the btrfs compression property to none, etc.
That would work. The problem I see with the subvolume approach, though, is that in Btrfs there's no real isolation between subvolumes because they all share the same data structures. It means that if the swap code decided to hose the swap subvolume there's a good chance it'd take out the whole filesystem with it. Swapfile support on Btrfs is still young/experimental code and I'm not confident trusting it on my main rig yet.

Parker Turner
Parker Turner

antiX for shit computers with no RAM.

MXlinux for the rest.

Camden Jones
Camden Jones

reddit spacing
antix, the antifa certified distro
mxlinux, it's worse spin-off
tried these both once. both were equally shitty.

Anthony White
Anthony White

The problem I see with the subvolume approach, though, is that in Btrfs there's no real isolation between subvolumes because they all share the same data structures.
That's a shame, but ideally the main drive(s) should be backed up regardless of the filesystem setup, not that I'm taking my own advice right now. I gotta get around to that someday...
Its worth noting that Btrfs is most stable on the stable kernel series, 5.1.x, and with the latest stable version of btrfs-progs. They've made some good progress there so far, hopefully within the next few years Btrfs will shake off its terrible reputation and become more stable.

Caleb Butler
Caleb Butler

gentoo eat crap:
Gentoo + compiled kernel + apps + no X + own flags = 100 MB RAM
default flags = 150 MB RAM

slackware binaries = 64 MB RAM

fuck you gentoo

Daniel Martinez
Daniel Martinez

I've been doing minor customizations to the kernel config for my drivers and its handled as a package through version control.
What are you on about?
Well, for starters, how many versions of the same package are you gonna get? 2? 3? 15? How many of them are going to have dependencies and dependants different from the "main tree"? See where I'm getting at? It's a nightmare. On a tangential note, how many storage are you gonna use?
You have posted some awful dependency graph yourself. Now imagine how much more it complicates when you add a fuckton of versions on top of it.
And ALL of these dependencies are gonna be maintained manually by you. I mean, sure, the PM will handle this shit for you "once the packages are written", but somebody gotta write them first LMAO. In case of your customizations, this is gonna be you, and you alone.
It is basically dead simple to bring in outside repos via channels as well
The outside repos are only good if they work for you. Same goes for the main repo, if course.

If you don't have any interest in using Emacs or writing any Scheme code, its probably not for you
Got me here, I am a vi appreciator and a don't like LISP and functional paradigm in general. The only good thing coming out of FP is pure functions - fucking fight me on that, I dare you.
writing the config.scm is writing Scheme (Guile specifically) code
Why cannot it be declarative brain-dead little-to-no-syntax-encumbered code? Is there any reason to use this parentheses shit? Fuck y'all. Gentoo ebuilds are hardly better, I admit, but better still.
Theres other caveats, but you get the idea.
I get that it is undermaintained garbage and you know what? If I have knowledge and time to do that much of work, why wouldn't I just start my own one-person distro with my own PM and stuff, hmm? Tell me one fucking reason, just one.
However, the CoW immutable file store and functional package management design allows for profile and system generations to exist (they are automatically made when you do a package transaction or reconfigure the config.scm), allowing you to fix up your mistakes (system generations appear on the boot menu and you can select them) usually and keep track of everything very well. Its sort of like ZFS or Btrfs for packages.
I get that it is a powerful abstraction and potential of managing source-based Linux ecosystem here is actually immense. The problem comes from a) broken shit because of undermaintainage issues and b) general overengineering of your distro when you have your "immutable storage" all over the place.
Like, just thinking about maintaining this shit makes my head spin. Is it everything you do with your life, maintaining Linux distros? Get outta here.
And BTW, immutability idea is fucking garbage. Pure FP findmaxelem() algorithm will take O(N^2) data as it will allocate N, then N-1, N-2 etc shit recursively. CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS SHIT?
b-but just monad it away and get the real code in that way
WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT OF THIS WHOLE PARADIGM THEN YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT SOYBOYS? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? JUST WRITE IMPERATIVE CODE WITH NO SIDE-EFFECTS THEN YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.
God I hate you all.

Kevin Rodriguez
Kevin Rodriguez

Well, for starters, how many versions of the same package are you gonna get? 2? 3? 15?
You never know - imagine you're using a system shared between many users - they could have many versions of the same program and Guix prevents the system from being messy. And just two programs using the same library can be a problem.
You have posted some awful dependency graph yourself.
That's the graph showing dependencies of the entire distribution, not only a package manager. Believe me, if you made one for Gentoo, it wouldn't look simple either.
And ALL of these dependencies are gonna be maintained manually by you.
Guix automatically builds and maintains dependencies.
I mean, sure, the PM will handle this shit for you "once the packages are written", but somebody gotta write them first LMAO.
Give me one package manager you can use without having packages defined first.
In case of your customizations, this is gonna be you, and you alone.
I though those are Gentoo users who like customizations and having control over the system. Of course you have to do customizations yourself, nobody is going to rice your desktop or use specific kernel settings for you. And it seems Gentoo is all about that, strange USE flags, all these instructions on the wiki, it doesn't even have an installer. Is there a fairy under the hood that makes everything work on Gentoo?
Got me here, I am a vi appreciator and a don't like LISP and functional paradigm in general. The only good thing coming out of FP is pure functions - fucking fight me on that, I dare you.
Actually Scheme is a multi paradigm programming language the code of the package manager is not functional, but the package manager is functional - it treats package definitions, dependencies and source code as input data, then the data is processed and you get a compiled program - output data. input -> function -> output
Why cannot it be declarative brain-dead little-to-no-syntax-encumbered code?
Scheme is great, because its syntax can be extended by for example macros, giving you a great flexibility - you can define your own domain specific language using Scheme.
Is there any reason to use this parentheses shit?
They're actually handy and after a month coding Scheme you stop seeing them, also people thing you're a wizard.
Fuck y'all.
Spank me daddy.

William Nelson
William Nelson

You never know - imagine you're using a system shared between many users
I was asking about you (though you are probably a different fag, but it matters not). And I am not interested in that shilling. Users may use their home directory for anything still.
That's the graph showing dependencies of the entire distribution, not only a package manager. Believe me, if you made one for Gentoo, it wouldn't look simple either.
The point was that you would complicate it even further by adding more versions of the shit. Gentoo has package slotting too, but I find it just better to overwrite the old package and be done. Less to think about that way. Having multiple versions of the same package is a rare necessity and more of a luxury. You still can chroot into some different system if you want though.
Like, all these arguments add up to how the Guix is generally unnecessary as fuck. That post above was correct in that it is a niche distro, like, even more so than Gentoo.
Give me one package manager you can use without having packages defined first.
I though those are Gentoo users who like customizations and having control over the system.
Binary packages will generally do that for you, like, you don't have a whole script for them, but that obviously wasn't the point. The point is you don't have to maintain your whole lot of immutable piece of shit package definitions. Like, writing EVERYTHING down is not a good idea, really, and you guix shills give it as a major selling point for some reason.
strange USE flags
BTW I hate everyone who uses -O3 in /etc/portage/make.conf (globally) PERSONALLY. I swear to Christ, if you say shit like that to me IRL I will punch you in the face, and once you fall down, I will start kicking you into everything until you stop moving.
Is there a fairy under the hood that makes everything work on Gentoo?
There actually isn't and the most annoying shit about the portage in general is that you have to record USE flags in some files just to install some package, like,
a) you ran emerge shit
b) package shit wants some USE flag enabled in some other package
c) PIECE OF SHIT PORTAGE WANTS ME TO MAINTAIN A FUCKING RECORD SOMEWHERE LIKE WHAT THE FUCK DUDE YOU MAINTAIN THE PACKAGE DATABASE WITH ALL THE USE FLAGS AND SHIT HOW HARD IS IT TO JUST ENABLE THEM AND ASK ME IF I WANNA REBUILD THE PACKAGES??????////
And before I forgot, Guix is even worse, like, I have read that to define a package you have to include WHOLE LIST OF DEPENDENCIES OR ELSE THEY WON'T GET INCLUDED INTO THE ENVIRONMENT AND YOUR BUILD JUST BREAKS. Tell me this is a good design and not some braindamage, and I will shit on you even harder.
Scheme is great, because its syntax can be extended by for example macros
Oh look, great, you have LISP braindamage.
you can define your own domain specific language using Scheme.
If I was that autistic and good at writing lexers/parsers/compilers I would write my language using basically anything right fucking now, OK? I'm picking a language to write my OS BTW, and I'm thinking Ada. Tell me this is a good/bad idea.
They're actually handy and after a month coding Scheme you stop seeing them, also people thing you're a wizard.
I don't want to use anything LISP ever, OK? I want to allocate my limited brain resources to something better than validating paretheses sequences. Just add []{} to this shit at least, OK?
<b-but just macro everything brah
FUCK YOU

Jose Thompson
Jose Thompson

Chocolatey is overengineered garbage. Use scoop.sh/ instead.
(sage for offtopic)

Landon Johnson
Landon Johnson

Users may use their home directory for anything still.
Putting packages there would be unnecessarily redundant and a totally irreproducible mess.
I was asking about you (though you are probably a different fag, but it matters not).
Yes, I'm a different fag, you have to wait for the first one, because I'm only a minor Guix shill.
The point was that you would complicate it even further by adding more versions of the shit.
It would be complicated for any other package manager, but Guix (or Nix) makes it easy to use - it tracks and manages multiple versions of the same package - you don't have to have a different system to run software or uninstall incompatible packages anymore, because Guix solves this, by separating packages. People fear having different versions of the same software, because their package managers often shit everything into /usr/ or /usr/local or whatever different directory making a file spaghetti. Why should it be like this?
The point is you don't have to maintain your whole lot of immutable piece of shit package definitions.
AFAIK, package definitions are mutable, the thing that is immutable is the store, where derivations (built packages) are kept.
<Users must never modify files under /gnu/store directly. This would lead to inconsistencies and break the immutability assumptions of Guix’s functional model (see Introduction).
gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/guix.html#The-Store
BTW I hate everyone who uses -O3 in /etc/portage/make.conf (globally) PERSONALLY. I swear to Christ, if you say shit like that to me IRL I will punch you in the face, and once you fall down, I will start kicking you into everything until you stop moving.
A compiler optimization flag? Sounds like something unsafe, but anyway I don't think it's a good reason to kick someone just because of using it.
And before I forgot, Guix is even worse, like, I have read that to define a package you have to include WHOLE LIST OF DEPENDENCIES OR ELSE THEY WON'T GET INCLUDED INTO THE ENVIRONMENT AND YOUR BUILD JUST BREAKS. Tell me this is a good design and not some braindamage, and I will shit on you even harder.
By this you make sure your package is going to work on any system - imagine you're packaging a program and you have all dependencies installed on your system - it works on your machine, then you could build and publish your package, but what if you forgot to add a dependency in the package definition? It would work on your machine, but would be broken on any other machine.
And tell me I'm wrong, but I see dependencies listed inside Gentoo's package definitions, for example gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/app-editors/gedit/gedit-3.30.2.ebuild
I don't want to waste my time knowing every dependency of a package I'm using, because someone could just forgot to add a dependency. By using 'guix environment' you can define a blank environment to work while making a package, thanks to this there's no way a package won't work, because of a lacking dependency - it makes systems and environments more reproducible, while removing 'it works on my machine' problems.
Oh look, great, you have LISP braindamage.
It's actually better than Unix or C braindamage, pretty comfy.
If I was that autistic and good at writing lexers/parsers/compilers I would write my language using basically anything right fucking now, OK? I'm picking a language to write my OS BTW, and I'm thinking Ada. Tell me this is a good/bad idea.
Sorry, I don't know anything about Ada. I just use Scheme because it makes me happy and it has many cool features. If you're interested in why people like LISP, Scheme etc. read on the Internet, maybe they'll explain it better than me.
I don't want to use anything LISP ever, OK? I want to allocate my limited brain resources to something better than validating paretheses sequences. Just add []{} to this shit at least, OK?
You don't have to remember 'sequences' of parens, for a LISP programmer they're transparent, they just see names of procedures, variables, macros, etc. The whole point is that the syntax is so minimal, you stop seeing it. What's important while coding in a LISP dialect is the structure of code - indention level is what you care about - it's just like in languages with C-like syntax.
FUCK YOU
I think you should calm down a bit, being angry at everything won't make your life better. We're here during our free time, so we should try to spend it in a good atmosphere.

Andrew Parker
Andrew Parker

-Os is actually often better, especially for slower/lower-end machines with smaller caches. Especially ARM in my experience profits from -Os.

Brandon Diaz
Brandon Diaz

Putting packages there would be unnecessarily redundant and a totally irreproducible mess.
And it is different from Guix mess how exactly?
Anyway it's up to user how to manage their packages (because ultimately no one stops them LOL). The package manager is a system administration tool. User with system-wide privileges can make changes to the system. That's pretty straightforward.
makes it easy to use - ..., because Guix solves this, by separating package
Yaddayaddayadda.
We got our users separate environments and it magically became easier, sure.
Like, seriously. You still would have to install/uninstall all the mess, it's just kinda more uniform. The problem as I see it - the complexity doesn't really go away. Example of actually removing complexity here would be static linking.
People fear having different versions of the same software, because .... Why should it be like this?
It shouldn't, because autotools and according makefiles have all types of flags (like --prefix or DESTDIR) to set up the installation. And it isn't.
AFAIK, package definitions are mutable, the thing that is immutable is the store, where derivations (built packages) are kept.
This doesn't make sense. I mean, if package definition (script or whatever Guix pm uses) changes, the output should change too. This is breakage of functional paradigm and of common sense (in a way). You write your definition, you get the package, then you write another definition and get another package, then you decide on what to do with the old package. Usually you just want to scrap it. This is the Gentoo default.
anyway I don't think it's a good reason to kick someone just because of using it
Because of people using unsafe flags in make.conf, we have strip-flags in flag-o-matic, and adding some flags for some packages becomes a hack, even if they are reasonable.
And I have spoken to such people myself, they are fucking nigger babies, and package maintainers have to wipe their asses, OK?
Like, sure, I was exaggerating a bit, but I wanted to make a stong point, and you are autistic as fuck for even replying to that.
By this you make sure your package is going to work on any system - ... then you could build and publish your package, but what if you forgot to add a dependency in the package definition?
Guix solves the problem differently and maybe a bit better - the separate environments are good - but other systems don't really solve this problem remarkably worse. And I suppose if I package some shit on some other GNU/Linux distribution, the problems won't be magically resolved, right? The POINT is that your distro JUST FOLLOWS some CONVENTION on where to put files. It also probably uses symlinks heavily, which is shit design in the first place.
And the whole problem with such "system" is that it is not sane in the first place. Shared libraries are not the sane solution to anything if you start having tons and tons of different versions of them in the system.
I don't want to waste my time knowing every dependency of a package
Me neither. Though core packages of Gentoo system have no such flaws as far as my experience goes.
The point I was making before on that is that YOU will HAVE TO meticulously deal with this shit on par with system distro developers. And I even asked a question like: "If I had knowledge and time, why would I not just make my own distro?" It's not that much more of the work.
If you're interested in why people like LISP, Scheme etc. read on the Internet, maybe they'll explain it better than me.
I know why. Because it is the ultimate special snowflake language. It is rather straightforward to redefine pretty much everything about the language, that's why LISPtards had to develop some "official dialects" so their scripts can actually be somewhat portable LMAO.
You don't have to remember 'sequences' of parens, ..., you stop seeing it. ... - indention level is what you care about - it's just like in languages with C-like syntax.
Dude, you cannot even tell code from data at a quick glance, you have to actually read code for that. It scales poorly, and ((((())))))))(()()()() scales poorly too. Fuck it.
I think you should calm down a bit, being angry at everything won't make your life better. We're here during our free time, so we should try to spend it in a good atmosphere.
SHUT UP

Michael Miller
Michael Miller

funny that a windows user would care about such things

Ryder Edwards
Ryder Edwards

I recently installed Guix and found that the tor-browser bundle doesn't work. I'm reluctant to use IceCat through a system tor daemon due to fingerprinting, and according to the Guix mailing list the only way to get tor-browser working for now is to patch its binaries to look for system libraries in /gnu/store. Have any guixfags done this successfully with tor-browser or any other program? If so, how did you do it?

Nolan Lee
Nolan Lee

I was asking about you
Here is your reply:
Well, for starters, how many versions of the same package are you gonna get? 2? 3? 15?
What do you mean? An installed package, or a defined package? Are you referring to the kernel specifically? In that case, the answer is one if we use the strict definition of a version in Guix and two if we're considering the new package, but remember, this one is inheriting the download information so there should be no need to change it unless you want to change the kernel config or something about how it works. There is no need to install the original package, only your inherited package.
How many of them are going to have dependencies and dependants different from the "main tree"?
0 in the case of the new kernel package.
On a tangential note, how many storage are you gonna use?
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-size.html
I'll be using patchelf as an example, since it doesn't have many inputs. For an image (requires guile-charting to be installed):
guix size --map-file=/.../patchelf-map-closure.png patchelf [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]

guix size patchelf [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
store item total self
/gnu/store/...-gcc-5.5.0 161.9 93.7 22.6%
/gnu/store/...-glibc-2.28-debug 144.0 58.5 14.1%
/gnu/store/...-binutils-2.31.1 92.2 54.4 13.1%
/gnu/store/...-guile-2.2.4 121.9 44.4 10.7%
/gnu/store/...-glibc-2.28 37.8 36.3 8.8%
/gnu/store/...-glibc-2.28 76.3 35.9 8.7%
/gnu/store/...-gcc-5.5.0-lib 68.0 30.2 7.3%
/gnu/store/...-libstdc++-boot0-4.9.4 13.6 13.6 3.3%
/gnu/store/...-glibc-bootstrap-0 11.3 11.3 2.7%
/gnu/store/...-glibc-2.28-static 47.5 9.7 2.3%
/gnu/store/...-gcc-cross-boot0-5.5.0-lib 33.6 8.7 2.1%
/gnu/store/...-linux-libre-headers-4.14.67 4.4 4.4 1.1%
/gnu/store/...-gmp-6.1.2 70.7 2.7 0.6%
/gnu/store/...-libunistring-0.9.10 70.3 2.4 0.6%
/gnu/store/...-bash-static-4.4.23 1.5 1.5 0.4%
/gnu/store/...-bash-static-4.4.23 1.5 1.5 0.4%
/gnu/store/...-pkg-config-0.29.2 69.3 1.3 0.3%
/gnu/store/...-libgc-7.6.6 69.9 1.2 0.3%
/gnu/store/...-bash-minimal-4.4.23 38.8 1.0 0.2%
/gnu/store/...-libatomic-ops-7.6.6 0.7 0.7 0.2%
/gnu/store/...-zlib-1.2.11 38.0 0.2 0.1%
/gnu/store/...-patchelf-0.8 68.1 0.2 0.0%
/gnu/store/...-libltdl-2.4.6 68.1 0.2 0.0%
/gnu/store/...-gcc-toolchain-5.5.0 376.8 0.2 0.0%
/gnu/store/...-libffi-3.2.1 68.1 0.1 0.0%
/gnu/store/...-ld-wrapper-0 176.4 0.1 0.0%
total: 414.4 MiB

This computed the closure of those packages stated in the command.
The outside repos are only good if they work for you.
If you're capable of connecting to a git repo now, then you probably will be in the future.
I mean, sure, the PM will handle this shit for you "once the packages are written", but somebody gotta write them first LMAO.
There are some commands that automate parts of it, mainly import for things like packages defined in language repositories with an importer written for them already:
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-import.html
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-hash.html
guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-download.html
Why cannot it be declarative brain-dead little-to-no-syntax-encumbered code?
Its mostly just lists and variables, and looks pretty declarative for Scheme code. I am pretty sure you realize why it has to have syntax.
why wouldn't I just start my own one-person distro with my own PM and stuff, hmm?
Read the papers made by the people behind Nix and go ahead. It would probably be quicker to just fork NixOS and replace systemd, though.

Attached: patchelf-map-closure.png (32.56 KB, 552x673)

Jackson Richardson
Jackson Richardson

Attached: linux-GENTOO-PROPRIETARYREEEEEEEEEE.webm (2.68 MB, 878x480)

Carter Gomez
Carter Gomez

Install CloverOS

Attached: bb1fbef21410111ffd5667c1c85d67ede124a996221cb2ffaafa07e7881714c2.jpg (476.98 KB, 2102x1237)

Ryan Gray
Ryan Gray

Just install Gentoo or something derived from it that doesn't use a systemd build, probably some gentoo based distros do that. Also you can change Arch to use OpenRC, I think that's not supported anymore. Arch was much more elegant back when it didn't have systemd. It basically had a rc.conf that tried to be a config file for the whole system and the pacman config, not a dozen of config files spread everywhere like now.

Levi Torres
Levi Torres

Parabola?