John Calhoun's mouse utopia experiment, it created a behavioral sink with the end result being extinction of the colony, this was due to no more mice being born at all.
Much like in human society we see these same trends occuring, however, in the human world we have access to technology and communications.
What would be the end result of a mouse utopia, but with a MouseChan™?
Perhaps, if there were such a thing in the mouse utopia, a way for the mice to, in a sense, become "redpilled" then it may somehow reverse the trend of extinction.
What would this MouseChan™ look like? probably similar to any chan, it will have information, scaled down to a mouses comprehension level of course (images and videos) , that will teach the mice how to be mice again.
Thoughts? this seems as though if it were to work it would be an example of the human chans being the bulwark against mans ruination as it would be the bulwark against the ruination of the mice.
This would of course have to be implemented later on in the experiment when the signs of collapse begin to show
Mouse Utopia but with a wild card
Perhaps if you isolated the mice for half of the day and put them in contact with a normal mouse population, it would be able to see the mice but not be in the same cage.
Afterwards they would return to the dysfunctional society and perhaps behave more "normally" than they would if they stayed in rat hell.
Chans usually just enable NEETS, not teach them how to stop being NEETS. MouseChan would do nothing to save Calhoun's utopia. In fact, it might make it go extinct even faster.
they did something similar to that, they would take normal males and females and put one gender of mice in at a time and the result was the same with either gender, the mice that were already present refused to breed with them, what i had in mind was putting in some screens in where the "beautiful ones" were mid C phase, i say put it with those ones because they were relatively isolated from the mice tha could be considered "inner city" miceand could have a chance of rehabilitating their instincts
to be a bit specific i mean to only have pol-tier mouse stuff to in essence "redpill" the mice, no /b/ /v/ or any other boards , just mouse polposting
Yah, the beautiful ones ARE the NEETS.
Jeez user, be careful with that pic it hits the feels really fucking hard
Did anyone else notice that the mouse utopia doesn't break ten generations?
Ties in perfectly with The Fate of Empires
the reason the beautiful ones aka the NEETS would be the prime candidates and possibly the only hope is that they arent corrupted by society, quite the opposite, they see how shit society is so they refuse to take part in it, this would create an opportunity for them to create their own society because they have maintained their physical health and not been tainted by the evils of the previous society, much as with todays society, if it is going to collapse the few ones that would even have the knowledge of where to pick up again are the ones that have some insight into their nature and they way it works
The only tech that can theoretically save a mouse utopia is automated surrogate reproduction tech. Something that harvests eggs and sperm from adults, an artificial womb, and a robotic mother to rear the offspring. Nobody has tried introducing surrogacy to a MU as far as I can find. It would be an interesting experiment.
the question that im asking is this, would something similar to the chans be able to save the mouse society? if yes, then could it be the bulwark of human societys ruination? if no, then are the redpills, JQ, etc all in vain?
that is what i would like to see in the mouse utopia, to see if it has any ability to at least save some of the mice to have a chance of saving the race or if it wont be enough to prevent extinction
Japan seems like a human-scale mouse utopia.
Seems to be still working, but the kikes want to get their hands on it.
The point is that humans are not mice.
Humans aren't mice.
The mice at one point simply stopped caring since they got fed and had a 'decent life' in their brains anyway so they stopped fighting, and eventually breeding as well since they had no reason to.
No you don't see the same occurring we have massive population growth. The growth is still there in European countries and white countries but much lower comparatively.
You're entirely wrong.
Actually, we do see the exact same occurring. Cities have always had below replacement breeding, even in antiquity. Hyper-modernity has made it so what a significant portion of the female population voluntarily turns themselves into eunuchs via contraception. The populations with high birth rates are those that have not been fully processed into modern industrialism, either by virtue of being unfit (blacks in America) or by virtue of not being there in the first place (blacks in Africa).
Please find a source on that, because I find that extremely hard to believe, when up to reinassance era most city-like jobs were extremely body-work related and didn't de-masculate men (the main component on bad breeding).
Zig Forums promotes virtue & good values and goes against the corruption of society to a greater degree than any other medium in the world.
are you trying to push that "Zig Forums is just anime-watching virgin neckbeards and pedophiles" narrative or something?
Wrong,Dhaka had a growing population in 2011 and it may be the most overpopulated city in the world.
first week at h8chan?
Mice stopped giving a fuck about other mice because they meet too many asshole mice every day. The exact same thing happens in big cities. Be it Jew York, Paris, or Tokyo, you put too many people in a limited space and they learn to not give a single fuck about the other assholes.
So, you'd say it's a lose of empathy due to over social stimulation?
Yes, but I'd say it's due to bad social interactions instead of having too much social stimulation. Slowly the people learn that it's ok to not have any manners. Hippie communes in the 60s I think had a lot of social stimulation but they didn't turn into sociopaths, but of course they weren't comparable in size and the people who went there liked it in the first place (unlike a large city, which most people go for the money).
No, humans aren't mice, but mice are between 95-98% genomicly identical to us and their behavior is more "human" than most people would ever be willing to accept.
redpilling doesn't cause people to have more babymaking sex
that's the #1 flaw in redpilling, in my opinion
Hippie communes are a pretty bad example because everyone is going to more or less know each other, or at least recognize each other's faces. There's a sense of community and belonging and everyone being on the same page because it's a place where people go to meet like-minded people and be part of a community of a few hundred people, which is more or less the way people were meant to live.
Cities are giant human hives people are either born into or move to out of economic necessity, where they see 100x dunbar's number of new, unique strangers every time they leave the house, where no one is on the same page and no one trusts anyone because the anonymity that comes with huge cities is very easy for seedy types to exploit.
If you go to a hippie commune and smoke everyone's pot and never help water the organic garden or stir the compost heap, in less than a week everyone will figure you out and shun you until you leave or demonstrate a change in behavior, in the city you have to preemptively shun people until they demonstrate they're not a user because it's easy for those people to just hop from one social subgroup to the next over and over and over without ever seeing the same person twice.
Redpills are useless on a societal level. They are valuable to individuals, but those individuals will come fewer and fewer each generation. The only way to keep a MU active is to automate the reproduction and child rearing that adults inevitably abandon. Interestingly, if the automated systems select for fitness and intelligence based on heathy parameters, it could theoretically be possible to "reboot" a MU with computer engineered and trained offspring after the last generation of defective mice dies.
Nope, all creatures are born with a survival instinct to keep living, reproduce, etc. You see this in almost all animals. When is the last time you saw squirrels committing mass suicide because they no longer had a reason to live? You can even see it in humans, the more animalistic races and cultures all love to make tons of babies.
The problem is that when you're surrounded by people/animals who aren't struggling for life, your body's survival instinct completely dies. What purpose do you have to start a family and produce quality offspring? There are plenty of fellow animals around you who are doing well.
Those mice, they were crowded, everyone was successful, they had no reason to have any response like flight of fight, concern about reproduction, etc. Their survival instincts shut off because they had no reason to be concerned about it, because there were so many.
When life gets too comfortable, and risks to survival disappear, the instinct to reproduce and continue to live disappears. That's why affluent, well off cities all have population growth problems. Ghettos in cities that aren't safe, where there are legitimate threats to survival, and shitty civilizations that aren't safe all have people breeding like crazy because of their survival instinct.
Almost all animal life is programmed this way, doesn't matter what species it is. The less threat to survival, the less offspring there are. You end up with a utopia, you end up with no offspring.
Oh boy are you completely wrong. Hippie communies are proto-tumblr. There's video from the struggle session inside them from the 60s and 70s and it's exactly the sort of backstabbing and "non aggressive" aggression you get among leftists today.
Neuro?
See Kaczynski's "On Leftists" and "The System's Neatest Trick" for this in fancytalk.
never post again
It's a good observatio; now they are making it practically illegal to shun anyone. So the most parasitic benefit.
I wonder who…. oh never mind.
Did Calhoun attempt to prevent the collapse by removing half the population before the colony went critical? Could lend credence to the idea that humanity cannot thrive without culling.
I've heard that the experiment many times, as well as attempted with other animals, but I've never found any papers on them. I'd love to read more about all the different takes on the Utopia experiment.
Not saying you're wrong, i guess I mean in an idealized version of a hippie commune from fiction, like the imaginary perfect communist states communists like to pretend exist.
My point about homogeneous-farmiliar versus heterogeneous-unfamiliar societies and how small communities make it hard to be a burden on the community still stands.
You'd have to use an animal with a non-dispersed social structre. Mice work because they live in closed, contiguous colonies, but besides humans, most mammals do not.
Interesting thread, I had never heard of this experiment before
if
is true, then maybe there's a biological reason for this? If people can have the instinct to commit suicide, surely there are other ways that mother nature devised to cull "defective" individuals… Why does nature hate cities? Could it be because people who lived in cities were wiped out by diseases every other century?
Another thing: cities appear to have a notable amount of society's worst. Do you think they are attracted to cities or does the environment in a city actually produce them?
...
You are a fucktard.
Cities grow by people moving into them, not by their inhabitants breeding.
we'll find out if 10 years from now Zig Forums has an average of any less than 3 children
Social outcasts like drug users and homosexuals can't fit into actual communities and thus buy into them in cities.
First our problem is that humans will reproduce just fine, except they won't be whites. Our species isn't collapsing, just our people, so I don't think the mouse example is a good comparison.
Second there are no examples of a people reversing the situation we're in. Fate of Empires etc.
where's the actual study, you stupid nigger
It actually has a replacement birth of 2.08
whatever you say
Introduce a competing population to force the mouse utopia to rally against a common enemy. Or they get replaced by a serious foe, either one
other anons were right dude
Half incorrect, for me it was this:
Chans did indeed made me into NEET for a year, however my time as a NEET gave me time to break the conditioning and made me realize what i need to do for my future.
Umm g-guys
Does anyone else see
1- bullies
2- nerds
3- shallow women/nu-males/faggots/redditors/etc.
And look at those poor mice, they all look so… scruffy. J-just like people who live in cities tend to look beat up and miserable.
are we all going to die?
What's the problem with being a torposter?
Every civilization is like a game of Jenga; after a while it builds itself up so high and delicate that the slightest disturbance leads to a collapse.
Of course. And the corruption will be washed away in favor of a new age of truth.
CIAniggers don't like TOR.
t. Bible
Good thread OP
obligatory
shame of association replaced by.. shame of not presenting(having)
its not that CIAniggers like tor, they own it, the problem with it is just that, they own it and a large amount of the nodes, so you think your being sneeki breeki when really your just making it easy for them to see the shit you do
you must be a big guy…
yeah, they own maybe 10% of the nodes. But they have no control of the rest.
10% is stil no small number, i also recall hearing about a bill that was passed or was in the works to give alphabet niggers to obtain a warrent if you use tor
so how to shitpost without getting arrested then? You know TOR is all we got right?
while your digits imply there is truth in what you say i still hold to my belief that in addition to a layer of protection, it also highlights you and makes you a target, now ive heard people say that anyone worth their salt will have several layers of protection, not to downplay what your doing security wise, but please do consider the implications of both stances
< Bring back 1:1 mating rule
There, I just told you what humanity already did to solve this problem.
That's terrifying that there is a stage that once passed, means that there is no hope for the future. But, what was forgotten can be learned again, I hope.
men forgot how to be… real MEN
Jesus christ you are fucking retarded. A growing population does not mean it is growing from breeding you fucking knob. It is growing from immigration.
I feel like to many anons just draw conclusions about the rat city without actually studying Calhoun's work. Firstly, Calhoun did a number of things in the design of the habitat to encourage the rats to cluster together tightly, so it important to understand that this isn't a forgone conclusion to population growth, but rather population density. Secondly, the rats never stopped giving birth to new rats. Due to a number of circumstances, females became less able to build proper nests and care for their young sufficiently leading to massive increase in infant mortality rate. Due to confinement, female rates were constantly being mated with by both the dominant rats and the "Probers", the violent, asocial, rape rats. They were being impregnated before they could finish rearing the last batch. The other non-dominant males became either the passive homosexual rats that would mate wit the dominant rats, which the dominant rats tolerated, and the "beautiful ones" that becaome slow, meandering rats that rarely interacted with any other rat.
Thanks for the insight. Seems like that study has become a broken telephone type of situation where people keep referencing it and getting details mixed up.
Isn't that what's being forced in Europe?>>11411417
Now you get what the sciences are really used for!
thank you for your insight, this makes it a bit easier to really understand, i was thinking it was about exponential growth then dropping suddenly
At least make an attempt to be less obvious Schlomo. And maybe learn that population growth and population density are fundamentally linked because we're not birthing any new land.
still a valid point though, also im not a same fag (the one) i said that because he clarified some details about the experiment
No, we can't colonize other planets. And you didn't clarify some details, you lied.
it's OPs responsibility, faggot. that's a shit OP. really nigger-tier
fbi hates it when you use tor
I'm pretty sure it said if you use ANY privacy technology, then they're trying to consider that probable cause that you need to be searched. Here's the deal though: that only means you need to get MORE people to use tor until the Courts call bullshit. Does the FBI get to issue a warrant if you use TLS/SSL? fuck no. It's too common now
He did versions where he culled something like 1/3rd of the population several times, it extended the experiement negligibly, but didn't prevent the inevitable collapses. Worth noting that most of the Utopias only reached 60% or so capacity before the collapse began.
if the mouses had a space program they wouldnt have extincted themselves.
Le reddit rocket man isn't going to get us off this rock. We need someone to discover biological immortality, or at least a way to live 500+ years. This kind of shit takes many lifetimes to do, and passing on the project from one generation to the next causes inconsistencies.
Nope they tried that it didnt work.
You would need a mouse Zig Forums
Bullshit. Whole empires have been passed from one generation to the next for, well, generations. Hardly a problem. You're afraid of death like many kids but that has nothing to do with space fantasies.
Why can't they live on a planet of cheese and crackers? Why must this life be so cruel?
Wait they only used 4 fucking mice?
The problem was inbreeding and nothing else but the problems of inbreeding can be assumed from this fucking study.
Retarded af cuz.
this
lol gay.
They didn't use house mice, but lab mice. These have had most shitty recessive defects removed. 4 individuals seems enough to me however, I don't think it'd be a problem unless the 4 had bad genes to begin with.
Actually, unless they were bred for a few hundred generations before this experiment, no deleterious behavioural effects would have been removed.
And 4 individuals is tiny. If these mice were cramped but had the chance to knock up their cramped next door neighbors they wouldn't suffer inbreeding as this uncramped "experiment".
How do you even assume that recessive defects would be removed? What knowledge do you have on this? I've worked with mice in the lab and have no idea why you think all recessive genes would be removed. In fact, depending on the strain there would be double alleles of various recessive genes purebred for some strains and various combinations of mutations bred into other strains.
The way you reverse the mouse utopia syndrome is introduce Religion of Cuck™ic fundamentalist rats into the environment.
Mouse utopia can't happen with humanityas there is no god's hand feeding humanity. Humans need to produce food and fight each other for profit.
It can happen locally in some cities like Holywood for example.
Nail on the head.
More or less yes, due to the good times the west has enjoyed. Compared to men of 100 years ago, men today are domesticated. And why not, where there is an overabundance of luxury in pretty much every area of life, western men are kind of living in that unlimited resource utopia. See all the obese, fap/porn addicts? Men can finally enjoy all the food and lust their bodies can handle and more. No need to fight for it, thus no need for masculine traits that humans developed naturally in limited resource environments where they had to compete for day to day survival.
The wisdom of the bible (or any other time tested holy book, like Gita for example) were 100% right on calling over indulgence of sense pleasures a sin, it eventually leads to death (physically and spiritually). Western men can still hang on to their masculine traits if they don't over indulge themselves and create artificial scarcity in their lives to simulate that harsh times environment that keep them in tip top shape and their minds sharp and competitive.
The mice didn't have self awareness of their unlimited indulgence of utopia leading to their downfall. Humans do. Be strong and await the next collapse because it is going to collapse hard when it does. Men have never been softer in history than they are today.
Now there would be some 4D chess.
Absolutely disgusting.
I'm of the opinion that they just tried to push too hard, too fast.
Left wants white Genocide, rightwing is letting it happen so they can get votes and try and restore the West as king of the hill.
Notice as the more diverse we become the more right wing. Its because they know how peoples brains work.
Or it's just nature's checks and balances in action.
most of the "conservatives" are cucks and traitors
This was brought up by other doctors, and in response Dr. Calhoun did variants of the study where he introduced 'fresh' genetic stock at various intervals, with no change to the outcome. This wasn't a 'study' so much as this guy's life's work. He spent decades trying every practicible variant of 'utopia' and they all ended in disaster.
That's a good (if scary) point. The future belongs to those who show up.
However, a counterpoint can be made that the same applies to liberals: in a strictly reproductive sense, liberalism is dysgenic.
But liberals reproduce by memetic contamination, not biology. It doesn't matter if a conservative has 3 children if 2 of them end up liberal.
The same can be said of pol-acks. Biology is not the only determining factor.