Were Ancient Cultures (specifically Hellenes) really "gay"?

I always was sceptical about claims, which always took everything that insinuated homosexuality, at face value. There is one huge unanswered question that immideatly pops up in my head, whenever I read about that. Men kissing each other is disgusting to behold by most hetereosexual men. How can soldiers respect their commander or civilians their politicans, if they saw them kissing some with some other man? Even if it was a young, less many man? I believe that human nature doesn't just change so drastically over time. So I am sceptical about claims do. Even if they didn't see them kiss or have sex, they probably hear about it some way and probably would have made jokes about "x being a fa**ot that takes it up the bum or is constantly touching up his boy companion" either as a joke or as an expression of their disgust.

It's the same with claims about female soldiers, which in cases like during the German Migration Period were more like Camp Guardians and cheerleaders, but who would attack their own team, if they retreated. Or Shield Maidens, who took care of their equipment of Soldiers. But that aren't really frontline soldiers that were expected to see combat. In fact that is what motivated the Germanic Tribes to fight and not run away. Because your wive, daughters, the entire future of your people are on campaign with you.

This is just pure speculation, but what if most cases were just misunderstood close friendship? My reasons are that today still many people either jokingly (bromance), willfully or seriously misunderstand close, brotherly friendship between guys to be gay. Again this related back to my point that human nature wouldn't be so drastically different. Genetically we are basically the same as the Ancient Peoples. What if close friends just jokingly called each other lovers and that just got lost in translation? I mean if it was so obvious that the lovers part was just a joke, would anyone have bothered to write it down: "Actually it's just a meme, most men aren't serious, when they call their best friend their gay lover." To the dismay of historians, things Ancient Historians regarded as very obvious, weren't written down.

Also when we look at Greek-style pederasty, we see something interesting. Penetration wasn't supposed to take place. It was shameful. This reminds me of basically a more extreme hazing prank, where it's technically not gay, because penetration didn't take place. And whose to say that in practice it didn't evolve into just clothed humping or just placing the penis between the knees for a few seconds, instead of an actual sex act with ejaculation in mind?

Also it gets kinda funny in a meta sense, when we look at war propaganda and how some people take it as face value, because in a different value system this might be seen as good? IIRC the Romans wrote some very shameful things about the Celts. Like their women were all whores, who would sleep with any foreign men they came across. They young men as well.

I believe that of course homosexual bevahior existed, even if it might not have been regarded as such in some cultures. Like where it's seen as only gay, if you are the passive partner. (but who knows what might have been going on behind closed doors and the public's speculation) Especially Mediterranean cultures, because we can witness that culture surive even to this day, like in the Muslim World, where they somehow managed to combine this with anti-gay sentiment. Honestly when I looked at that, I began to look at the anti-gay message of early Christanity in another light. If you lived in an enviorment like that, then it makes sense to call out that behavior as sinful. Even today lots of young men and boys get traumtaized by this absuse, which is hard to put a figure on. It probably also has something to do with the degree to which women are treated. In more western, european cultures women had still different roles, but they weren't necessariyl regarded as "lesser value". So the trend seems to be the more women were shut out of public life, the more this behavior took place in cultures.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=7ldMDDAlMb4
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Veneti
8ch.net/pol/res/11485485.html

Perhaps during their declines.

But even in the current decline, we aren't all gay. (except the british youth)

sodomy was frowned upon and made fun of

sounds gay to me.. oh wait

Greek delicacy was the juiciest BBC sourced from Africa. You can find ancient art proving this. It wasn't uncommon for greek noblemen to hire a BBC servant to satisfy their wife. In fact, BBC cuckoldry was popular all throughout the ancient Mediterranean. It's part of the reason why they're mixed today. Don't believe me? Do a Google image search. Do it.

tfw was banned for asking this question on r/askhistorians.
It used to be such an interesting sub.

They aren't gay as "gay" as we know now, but they were less concerned about buttfucking because there was no Christianity puritan view.

The relationship between Patrolus and Achilles for example.

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...

actually, real men are more masculine with smaller penises, bigger penises are for losers and barbarians so
check all the statues.


greeks dont buttfuck, they have intercrural sex instead

I seriously don't understand why people are so retarded.
Why do they not understand that the penises of greek statues were fucking flaccid? There was no reason to be erect.

Do numales and women just forget that penises can be flaccid?

So we could be.

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they weren't gay pride parady like todays degeneracy, but they were certainly more accepting of it
in greek culture you had several variations of sacred bands
elite military units composed entirely of gay lovers for one, pedastry seems like it was acceptable to some degree
however in difference to present day one big deviation stands out, namely that there was a difference between being gay and taking it up the ass, with the latter being shamefull for an adult man

now in your question you mentioned an interesting topic per chance i think
i am asuming you are saying this as a northwestern european or burger of germano-celtic descend
and it can be noted that gays were far less tolerated in the germano celtic world than they were in the med area
to your phrasing in most med cultures even today men kissing eachother is as common as north europeans shaking hands upon meeting one another
also interesting to note is that in the muslim world were gays are generally killed upon discovery the occurence of gay behaviour is far more prevalent than in the tolerant west, depicting a deep seated difference in culture/biological inclination
and don't give the copout of their women are not accessible, a straight guy in the west will wank it manually rather than turn guy in the absence of accesible women

so are you then saying that the reaction of healthy men today of physiological disgust and horror at the sight of two men kissing/banging is some kind of a social construct put on us through Christian puritanism?
or is it that the Greeks too had this inborn disgust to homosexual but had it socially conditioned out of them by their environment?

what? I never said anything about "real men". it is a fact that Meds were obsessed with BBC. we have their art to prove this. cucking/cuck porn is inherently homoerotic, too. you can't tell me with a straight face that hetero men enjoy seeing well endowed stallions plough their wives like fertile soil.

Is minting BBC coins gay and ducked or nah.

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pathetic and gay… also cucky.

The sacred band of Thebes is the only example of this

it's said to be true of the Janissaries as well.

You : the coin.

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jokes on you, med. meds aren't white. you're nonwhite rape babies.

Did you read what I said?

i am asuming you are saying this as a northwestern european or burger of germano-celtic descend
Yes. I am telling you this as prude Germanic and I am proud to be one! It's 2018, I don't have to be ashamed for being prude.

That still is not passionetly making out with each other.

youtube.com/watch?v=7ldMDDAlMb4


Didn't we teach them to be so anti-gay, because they have a serious problem with raping their own young men and boys?


That is a very contemporary problem.

The faggot r/askhistorians mod seems to think so.

I'm Polish, we're honorary Med.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Veneti

Only the Sp*nish aren't White.

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Funny how you can find the same disgust reaction in Taoist Asia and shit-hole Africa. Almost everywhere you go, homo sex is met with some kind of punishment. In fact, pagan northern Euros used to throw them into bogs.

Basically half german then, making you half the cucks that minted that coin. You wish you were a northern Dutch god like me.

This thread is super gay. Also checkem

Why do you WANT to be honorary Med?
You are a central european, just like us. Stop being ashamed of your central european, east-germanic, but assimilated into western slavic history, my dear neighbour.

WE FUCKED. Okay? That's what good neighbours do. They marry each other and mix. There is no shame in that.

You got our east German clay, that's enough. Now let's be in a Union with each other that is not the current EU.

Of course it will be a more sane Union that doesn't just bribe you with free gibs.


It's really clever how the Cultural Marxists invented Homophobia to put an undesirable stamp on that very natural disgust of homosexual behavior.


Don't bully him.

If it were true then this would be a nice argument for the Christcucks against the larpagans.

I don't buy it though, my disgust feels too fundamental and started at such a young age that I can't figure how it needed to be 'conditioned' into me, men ought not kiss other men, there's nothing cultural about it, it's just an abomination.

you seem to misunderstand my intend i certainly did not intend to shame you for being prude
i was pointing out your generalisation of all men view acts of gayness as disgusting, to be born of your biological/cultural upbringing and this does not translate to all others
(disclaimer: personally think culture is a manifestion of inate biology but this is still not a common view)

i don't disagree with you btw, i also am from north european descend and find the behaviour disgusting and degrading of male friendship
and it appears even science agrees with that as we here all know that gays are massive disease vectors

funny suggestion, but doubtfull as the boy raping goes back at least a 1000 years in the muslim world

Yes, it's extremely subversive, just like everything they push.

Med males kissing each other on the cheeks is completely different to two blokes making out, and the two don't elicit anywhere near the same degree of disgust.

Ah, all makes sense now. You're more Polish than you'd want to be, Utretch is rightfull Polish clay. From : Venerable Bede on Venerable Swidbert and Wilbrod, English excerpt:

>Pepin gave him a place for his episcopal see, in his famous castle, which in the ancient language of those people is called Wiltaburg, that is, the town of the Wilts; but, in the French tongue, Utrecht. The most reverend prelate having built a church there, and preaching the word of faith far and near, drew many from their errors, and erected several churches and monasteries. For not long after he constituted other bishops in those parts, from among the brethren that either came with him or after him to preach there; some of which are now departed in our Lord; but Wilbrord himself, surnamed Clement, is still living, venerable for old age, having been thirty-six years a bishop, and sighing after the rewards of the heavenly life, after the many spiritual conflicts which he has waged.”

and now from Frankish Annals, page 789

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I've done a DNA test. 100% Dutch, literally.

Please, don't make me puke. Didn't happen, m9!

The Furher gives his ultimatum, give back Utretch or we kick off WW3.

We'd be better off nuking that roach nest you call a country, honestly. It'll be platonic Clausewitzian total war before you can pull your boots on.

NO OF COURSE NOT, WHICH IS WHY THE SODOMITES (MEN PERFORMING THE ROLE OF WOMAN) DRESS IN WOMEN'S CLOTHING
Fucking of boys and low status men is just a desperate reaction to low availability of women.
What (((historians))) and SJWs are doing in relation to ancient cultures, is equivalent to saying that homosexuality is a normal thing that most men in America do today, by taking the example of the male prison population and extrapolating.

Must be your Slavic blood giving you the ambition, don't forget your Germanic blood is incapable of winning wars.

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It was just a meme. I know what you meant.


I think it depends. The meds don't kiss others on the mouth, do they? I think they would still regard it as weird, if you passionetly kissed your friend, instead of in a friendly way.


That's the thing I want to know. Obviously we weren't quite succesful, but we did have an influence on them. Like the Turks explicitely wrote into their laws that it was "okay to be gay" to paraphrase. That was seens as an anti-western law to make a statement to the West. "We will not give up our cultural practive of boyfucking."

The great Irony is that today the West is so degenerate, that they somehow applaud the Turks for standing up to "homophobia".
I think Christanity and our later western attitude to homosexuality was really a response to a moral crisis. Like still today so many young muslim boys and men are being raped, who the fuck knows what kind of fucked up things that does to a culture?


this


Stop hating yourself! Why does every culture hate itself?

The French:

The Swiss.
Some guy literally said:
Which is very ironic, because it's basically like saying "this is a table, not a piece of furniture".

I bet you have at least one german ancestor. :)

spoken like a true nigger
name one important polish intellectual who helped contribute to war theory. none. your women are notorious coal burners though. must be addicted to your essence. yeah, that's it

I agree we mixed to a lesser or greater extend (obviously) but the reason we were classed as Germanic by Romans is because we weren't nomads, although we didn't speak a Germanic language, didn't dress's like you, and didn't posses similar weaponry. Digging through my notes to find the quote now.

Rome failed because of it. This is what happens when you don't deal with gays, they assume all positions of power and invite in the jews. This is because all jews are gay because all of (((them))) have been sucked off by a Rabbi at birth.

Homos fear the bog like all degenerates, and why such a practice is considered uncouth. Nerthus requires sacrifice or the wheat fields will not grow.

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I DARE you to say that again, whiteboi.
We don't write about wars nigga we win them.

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spoken like a true pole

We've got second most wars fought after Britain for a reason, you could only win """wars""" against the brownies (i.e, the Spanish).

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The only European example used is Greece. A few Greek states like Athens developed close bonds between tutor and tutored, whether this meant sex is still not confirmed, but fags keep claiming it was common. The entire myth of Greek gayness is based on a few fanfics written at the time, like the siege of Troy having two guys being childhood friends, and liberals take this to mean they were fucking each other.

Niggers, Arabs and Persians traditionally fuck boys because polygamy means that a lot of adult men go without female companionship. And polygamy existed there since time immemorial, the leader of the average nigger tribe usually fucked half the women, his lieutenants had access to the other half, and the rest of the men fucked each other.

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And? Brits lost more wars than the french. Nothing to brag about.

We win them because our honorary Med blood compels us to switch sides to who ever is gaining the upper hand. Take that for strategy.

Ok, WTF is that?

French LEF, but german looking writing around the edge.

No, they were not, it's a retarded jewish psy-op against whites. Of course there was degeneracy, especially near the end, and that's why they failed. But it was never the norm or anywhere near it during the height of their history.

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Popular 20th century German meme mocking the French for using quintessentials for fighting wars, such as this one.

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that pic is of a brothel that served sailors, sailors stayed in the sun all day and were heavily tanned
report the 4cuck spammer

This. There was definitely buggery but it was looked down upon if the accounts of the people who actually lived at the time were to be believed.

The Greeks definitely had a more libertine culture at one point, Socrates warned them before his death. Part of the reason he was sentenced was he was "corrupting the youth" by saying the culture of do whatever was bad and the idea you should do whatever you can semantically justify was on the rise. That's part of why he was so adamant about showing the limits of reason in argument and why he was committed to saying we know there's a higher purpose.

Liberals like to point to as "see old people have been claiming it'll be the end of civilization because we want cummies" but what they neglect to mention is Athens fell literally two generations after the warnings that they were becoming too laissez faire in their culture.

Degernerate masturbation habits are personal.
To define one's self as such spells your end.

I read a book many years ago, the book was printed early 20th century. It said hedonism and homosexual behavior appeared right at the time of the collapse. Bound hand and hand with the fall of their civilization. "The corruption of the mind and body lead to the fall of this once great civilization".

I would say that it was a symptom of the decline, but It wasn't the reason why Rome fell.

Or I mean it did have an effect. It was a part of the self-reinforcing cycle of Degeneration, but it wasn't what started it all.

Exactly it is a symptom of the decay of civilization.

This sort of thing happens at the fall of a civilisation, and generally not otherwise.

Is it the court culture of palaces? What gives?

It should be pointed out that Athens had high availability of women. Based Solon created institution of state owned whorehouses filled with foreign captured slaves and lowest prices in such establishments were minimal.Athens citizens praised Solon's wisdom in that decision (together with prohibition of citizens enslavement, he freed all slaves of Athen's origin and banned dept enslavement and self-enslavement of citizens, something something about Americas student and alimony debts lol)

When you think about low availability of women you think about Sparta. Analogies with prison would be very proper.

That is a rabbit hole that runs deep.You will need to look at "mystery religions" Aleister Crowley is responsible for bringing it back and gained popularity during the during the rise of spiritualism. At the core it is Babylonian in origin.

What crack are you smoking?

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Respect gentleman, history just isn't taught in school anymore so you must be an autodidact.

Sparta was basically a matriarchy.

Be careful of revisionist garbage

Check your privileges CIS scum. Also you should check how Spartan wedding ritual looks like. Spartans were so accustomed to raping little boys that they literally couldn't get erection if their partner doesn't look like one.

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One might think you are talking about turkish Sultans, because that is actually what they did.

Greeks are a lot more eastern than we think. It's only our western perception of them that places them surely in the "west".

what the fuck are you doing on this site

Could be a leftover from halfchans invasion yesterday.

Haha c9fa27 fucking BTFO

Wow, nice. Germany of yore, where have you gone?

The Germans had black soldiers a dozen years later so…

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Oooops.

France at some point became a shit tier Empire. They directly integrate non-whites into their structures and it became a multicultural mess.

spoiler that shit faggot

Not even. It was the decline of "mentorships" that accelerated their decline, that in itself is different then the pederasty that existed as well. It's similar to what's happening in a lot of the west in highly technical fields where mentoring a new generation is critical. Those cultures had a very strong ethic of training the younger generation to take over roles in the next, usually with handpicked individuals who then had to prove themselves. Think of it this way with the military today. How many times have you heard of a person being put into a position over others, that didn't get there because of the skills and abilities that they had, but because they ticked the right "politically correct" boxes. Whether it be saying the right things, or ticking off the diversity box. You've already realized it.

Now to the good part. Look at highly skilled fields here in the west, where "insert diversity pushers" demand that various groups of people be given positions in those fields without having to pass the same tests that others did. Look at politics, ask yourself how someone like Obama or Trudeau Jr., got into those positions of power and rose so quickly inside those political parties. This is the type of stuff that destroys societies and civilization.

yeah man im sure they preferred fecal slush oozing its way down their pissholes instead of self lubricating twat

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No, it wasn't. It just wasn't a sharia shithole like some other parts of Greece, and a holdover from their original customs as Aryan invaders of Greece. The Celts, Germans or even Romans most of the time never locked their women inside the house either.

Xenophon is revisionist garbage now? Regardless, Spartans were derided by the rest of the Greeks for letting young men and women actually interact in a healthy way.

I would like a source that isn't 20th century homo wank fantasies for this. As for that pic, Spartans still clearly practised monogamy and married for life.

Jesus Christ. On 4chan every single thread about black people, trannies and gays has to be avoided, because they all end up posting gay/interracial porn and ads about their gay discord and so on.

Even here some fucking idiot spams porn. There really is no place safe from them.

Just report it and hide it if it bothers you. Comes with the territory.

Making parallels with modern society is very wrong. Modern post "sexual revolution" men are pussy starved. Even rich and powerful are now afraid of getting pussy.
8ch.net/pol/res/11485485.html
BASED FEMINISM SENDING A MESSAGE.

So you have situation of pussy denied men having power over prepubescent children. Bad.
But not the case of the Greece (actually Athens but in our perception Athens= Greece as everything were know about that land is written by Athens authors so we perceive this time and land through their eyes and life).

I already hid it. I didn't want to watch the webm to find out if it's a female or male ass, because that's what the gays want me to.

Spoiler that shit user, this is a noporn board

Today young men and women could "interact in a healthy way" too. But this is just feminist code word for the 10/90. 10% of top men getting 90% of women. For 90% of the rest Joes only way to get women via "non healthy" communistic or capitalistic distribution. Strict monogamy with women having no rights to escape marriage and obligations before husband or/and prostitution.

Think of the Sparta, spartans can't marry until 30, brothels are prohibited. Half of his most active sexual life Spartan has no reliable access to sex. How would average Joe get a pussy? He can only prostrate before free independent woman and beg for sex. Just like today. How much he would get with such tactic?

the webm above is female.

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Who descended from the Hellenes?

My apologies, That comment was intended for the "Check your privileges CIS scum" individual.

In africa, sure. Why wouldn't they

I already hid it. I can't get it back now.
Well, Porn is degenerate anyway.

B-But that means that they wanted millions of Africans to immigrate to Germany.

A-and Hitler complimenting M-muslims means he foresaw Mass Immigration of Muslims into the West and approved of it.

It's not, but if you're ignorant of history then I can sure see how you'd make that comparison. Seriously just use your head, go read greek and roman history and then see how many wars were launched "because" of a woman not for.

Please nigger. The Roman system was so demented that black bastards were ruled to be legitimate because some (((doctor))) had a theory that pregnant women being in close proximity to black slaves could turn the child black. Poets made their audience laugh with sarcastic stories about noblemen being cucked by their African slaves.

You damn fucking right it is, you should know better user

Every time a country went gay, it was invaded and conquered by its not gay neighbors. Classic Greeks were taken over the the Macedonians. Macedonians were then taken over by the Romans and then the Romans were taken over by the Huns. Then the Huns were taken over by the Franks. Then the Franks were taken by the Vikings. Then the vikings were displaced by the Anglos.

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And the angelos the arabs, so we go semi circle….

Wait why don't you continue and mention 1066 monsieur ?

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Homosexuality as you know it today, was invented in the 20th century. There was never a group of men considered 'of another type of sexuality': only practitioners of sodomy and pederasty.

Greeks practiced both freely, but they also knew the difference between love and sex better than the current faggots do. Romans started off martial and spartan, but acquired the vice from the Greeks when they conquered them. Christianity abolished the practice, but the sin of sodomy was still quite diffused.>>11489669