Line between self exploration, and depravity

The topic of drug usage is a touchy one in Zig Forums but I genuinely want to get the general consensus. Where does that line get drawn?
Imo these are substances that if properly used with moderation can be beneficial
However there are chemicals like opiate and amphetamine that can only help medically at best, people push the limit of these substances. I believe a moderate user of These substance's can still be a helpful member of society.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/gtVeByQOD8U?t=48s
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4873937/

.

I hate the drug culture and I hate the nupuritans Zig Forums has produced wtf lmao

addiction

Self exploration is a concept invented by faggots to encourage others to be faggots. Construing the behavior of your nerves and organs as having anything to do with your mind is fucking stupid. You ultimately control everything that you are. The only psychology is behaviorism, and the only will is free will.

Drink. But leave the hard drink for the broken hearted. A famous and wise philosopher said that.

A glass of good scotch/bourbon or red wine is acceptable and all you need. With the exception of Russia and eastern Europe, only women drink clear liquors. No need to do drugs mentioned by op.

wtf kind of shitt data mining is this.

-you want a bunch of antecdotes , so fucking what. Just cause some people respond does not mean its an accurate poll. So how would this thread even create a general concensus
-you are not even getting meta data like age , race and other shit so what would you analysis be, just a bunch of people like drugs and bunch of people dont, no one likes heroine
-not mentioning alcohol a very power substance

drugs dont absolve you from responsibility. You want to get high get high. You do something stupid while high you get punishment like you would otherwise. Go ahead kill yourself, makes my life easier.

It's all shit.

Do sports instead.

There's a vast amount of MEDICAL research that indicates that some of the aforementioned drugs can be beneficial under specific circumstances. And, as such, should continue to be studied, tested, and documented in a controlled environment until such a time comes that the mechanics of the ailment that they treat is thoroughly understood.

Don't be a faggot about your guilty pleasures and don't support niggers or other criminals by buying from them. It's not that hard.

I didn't ask for metadata, I asked for user to come to me with where they believe the line needs to be drawn. This is an open ended discussion Moishe.

I will take pretty much any drug, but I take them like a responsible fucking adult (ie infrequently and only on my days off). When you take drugs the way I do it isn't degenerate and anyone who says otherwise can fuck themselves with a rake. People who take drugs irresponsibly get the rope tho

the line is drawn at cocaine

I should also add that in addition to taking drugs responsibly I'm also a /fit/izen and encourage everyone to live a healthy lifestyle while still taking pleasure in any reasonable pastime

I can understand your point of illegality and how niggers monetize on illegal substances. Does it make it okay with you if 2 white chemists cook Meth and capitalize though? Or is Jerome the issue?

Only alcohol, amphetamines (for the explicit purpose of operating for extremely long and strenuous periods of time) and tobacco (sans preservatives) are alright, the rest is shit for hippies and degenerates. I would rather have a fatass in my nation than a cokehead or stoner.

I'm glad I can contribute to this thread. Drugs are an interesting thing. They are interesting not because of their effects, but that they exist as a siren song. Siren songs always must exist. They will always exist. If we lived in a world where we couldn't get hurt or make bad choices, what is the value of a choice? We would not have the experience of free will in that "safe/perfect" world. If no decision you made could hurt you, there is no real value based schema to relate to the world with. This is particularly relevant with drugs, but applies to all things. They made it a law to wear seatbelts, and I think that takes away from our sense of agency, even though it means well, or seems to mean well. Always be skeptical when someone suggests something that takes away some degree of your agency. I got a new phone recently, and it came with a million apps. Rather than me opting in, I had to actively opt out, which took more effort. That is an effort most people won't take. We should consider with a great degree of seriousness the prospect of things like self driving cars, banning of unhealthy foods, and government assistance. When you give up control over your life, something else takes over that control. Whether free will exists or not is completely irrelevant. We experience having free will, and because of that, we must always live consciously. We must live deliberately. Bad things happen when we don't. To make my point: I honestly don't know if drugs should be legal or illegal, but I have found that regardless, they should be approached with as much caution as they warrant. But we must never make them impossible to get. I think markets generally correct for that, but my point still stands, they should be regarded with caution.

Well, amphetamines have a use in certain situations but they shouldn't be available freely. I was more thinking of cannabis and psychedelica. Any drug bought from some wetback or nigger will be ten times more dangerous due to impurities than the same drug bought from a white person though.

Chemist here

Amphetamines can be produced in innumerable ways, off the top of my head I can think of two methods starting with different types of common plastics, for example. It is functionally impossible to completely control their manufacture and distribution.

With this in mind, is it not better for /ourguys/ to edge the shake n' baking niggers out of the market and provide a pure, stable product as advertised, and then invest some of the proceeds into furthering our cause?

Agree with OP. Psychedelics are for self-exploration. They are not "party drugs" nor physically addictive, though they can cause bad experiences if someone disrespects them in that way (talking about the psychedelics here, not pot).

Psychedelics should be legal for exploring human consciousness. It could benefit society enormously.

Heroin, amphetamines, etc. are physically addictive, destructive, and I think people who become addicted to them should be pressured or even forced to get treatment. Locking them up in prison isn't a good solution, but locking them up in a rehab clinic for a few months might be, if the staff cares and is of good quality.

your image is glowing

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If you had eaten mushrooms once or twice in your life I might have been able to make sense of your incoherent rant.


I'm assuming you meant to say something else, because these two statements do not mesh with one another.

Btw if you don't in fact believe that we can learn to mentally control otherwise unconscious biological functions, research biofeedback, and the work of Dr. Bill Tiller.


Only if they are bombarded with faggot propaganda and become fixated on it.

I love psychedelics, have eaten mushrooms and LSD a fair share of times, and ultimately it has made me much more traditional, but not because I am following any herd mentality.

To be honest I first started tripping while exploring Taoism, Zen Buddhism, and Hinduism, and if my head weren't in that space when I started tripping, my results could have been much different.

Set and setting and all that. There are rules and methods to be followed for these things, and respect due.

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Only experiment with substances that won't require you to whore yourself if your use becomes problematic.

You know, like cheeseburgers.

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Yeah I know right, it's OK to race mix just a little bit.

If people weren't already addicted to alcohol they would have no need for those glasses. The alcohol is what fucks their chemical balance over to the point where they can't relax or really enjoy themselves without dousing their brain in more poison to release that kick, a kick that fucks their brains over again and repeats the cycle. Breaking the entrenched habit of making everyone addicted to alcohol before they are even adults, and thus make them live a life where they have never experienced adulthood without the poison and see it as absolutely unthinkable to exist without it, is one of obligations of the rising National Socialist movement. If the individual is such a nervous wreck that he can't exist without something to still his nerves then so be it, but taking the flower of the people and instead of tempering their will to steel you cripple their minds and make them live a life in permanent dependency of a stimulant is absolutely inexcusable.

In the 1930s we didn't know exactly how stimulants damage the brain's reward systems but still Hitler was critical of the alcohol poisoning, even if he never made it any main point of the movement. Today modern medical imaging shows us exactly what damage it does and how it stunts the brain in the periods between exposure so we have absolutely no excuse not to act.

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Kikes get out.

Bullshit. People "enlightened" by psychedelics are of no use to humanity. Their "insights" are the results of the psychedelics frying their brains and making them unable to tell delusion from reality. They can be summed up as my drugs gave me this overwhelming experience when i thought about something so that means it must be super important. It's pure brain noise but typically the enlightened end up chasing these hallucinations down the spiral until what they say becomes indistinguishable from the rantings of schizophrenics; generally in broad strokes conveying something that is fairly accurate but explained with a bunch of contradicting "connections" that only makes sense in the minds of others who are in a similar state.

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Truly MAGA.

>(((controlled environment)))

>>>/reddit/

Found the mundie.

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Here we see the typical Jew tactic of randomly conflating two topics that have nothing to do with each other to create a false equivalency.

i've done every drug you can name and a bunch you can't. if anyone's opinion matters it's mine. i've lost friends to drugs, and the ones that did them in were always meth or heroin. stay away from those two, you probably already knew that.

no other drug that i've done will fuck up your life as reliably as those two. some are stronger, but you can't get hooked, or the effects diminish so quickly with repeated use that you won't get hooked. cocaine is this way for me. for others it leads them down the road to meth, so be careful. the only drugs i would recommend to others are alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, mushrooms and lsd.

psychedelics aren't for everyone. definitely don't do any hard psychedelics if you don't have some experience with pot. if you can't handle pot, you won't like these. if you do, start with a small dose of mushrooms and work your way up. they're usually sold by the gram or by eighths of an ounce. your first time take half an eighth, or 1.75 grams, and do it with friends you trust if you can. if you have to be alone, be in a place you feel at home and have good music and a comfy place to relax ready.

if things start to go bad, remember that it's just a drug that you took and that it will wear off in a few hours. music, cute videos, a change of setting and laying down in bed can help you as well.

the most important thing to remember is that drugs aren't for everyone and can be harmful to you, and that if you don't feel comfortable with them you can always choose not to do them.

lawd you learn, you don't "explore"
Drugs are a dangerous shortcut.
Do it the natural way. Or at least use them as a benchmark. Addiction is even worse than ignorance.

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lol imagine if cartographers had his mentality

getting a bit bright. Might want to turn down the glow

Weed is a time waster, hours down the toilet. Maybe a small hit in relaxing social events where you are going to be doing nothing important anyhow except just hanging out and talking. Shit drug.

Acid is fun, but if you play arij d with that stuff too much not all of you comes back each time. Watch videos of Jerry Garcia or Terrence McKenna talking. They're fucked. A time sink, but not necessarily a waste of time. Too bad it's all fake shit from China that will fuck you up now.

Psilocybin has given several people I know panic attacks or hospitalized them. I've not had problems, but it's more intense than acid if you are doing a decent dose (4-5 g). Would not recommend, it's dangerous.

DMT is pure magic medicine. Ayshuasca is a panacea and crystal is a 100 year trip in 10 minutes of real world time. You want to take this stuff with someone there to guide you if you're asking ayshuasca. No other drugs will seem worthwhile afterwards. You might even give up drinking.

Never take amphetamines or opiods. Never take anything you snort or inject. You will ruin your life.

Here we see the typical Jew tactic of projecting his Jewishness. The point is that it's not OK with degeneracy just becasue you only debauch yourself occasionally. It's not OK to continue degeneracy "because you only do it sometimes" and it doesn't matter if you defile your body by picking up nigger prostitutes now and again or if you defile your mind with drugs that permanently alter it.

Degeneracy is to be eviscerated to the extent it can. That fact that it can probably never be completely removed, while man remains similar to how he is now, is not an excuse for complacency. All you kikes who do not want to see the Aryan man rise up and become the superman must die. For those who are wondering: No, the superman doesn't need stimulants a crutches to compensate for the fact that he's is a pussy who can't handle life being hard. The superman faces hardship with an iron will and a mind clear as ice, and every failure in ourselves to do act thus should be called for what it is: Weakness.

Our task is to help our race free itself of weakness, not to make it revel in it becasue "it feels good and besides, you only do it sometimes". That is the voice of the seducing kike trying to steer you off the path towards the superman.

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Please bestow upon us the immense wisdom your journeys have granted you, oh explorer. I'm dying to hear it.

I think this is generally true. Scarce (i.e. once or twice in a lifetime) usage may "open" new ideas to a user experimenting, but from whom I know, more usage than extremely scarce usually results in morons whose eyes literally drift farther apart on their face, and whose philosophies practically always start with the idiotic premise of "if EVERYONE just…"

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That's a lot of text for someone trying to avoid the actual argument. I think there's a word for that in Hebrew.

You're simply larping as le hardcore antidegenerate while absolutely engaging in activities that could be considered degenerate by others if we knew about them. Your stance is beyond any reason, logic or basic understanding of human nature. Thus any attempt at debating further is a waste of time.

I'm mixed with DMT. On one hand, its a drug our own bodies produce, but its also been heavily dulled by the fluoridation of our water. Perhaps it would be better to just clean up our water supplies.

Some people claim that drinking piss and eating shit might be beneficial. How is that you don't explore these possibilities, but select those that assure getting high & stuff?

Don't know about you, but IF the shit ever hits the fan I want to be sober and have my wits about me. Drugs can take you to different perceptions, they also OPEN "doorways" to other realms with different creatures and fucked up things..they just walk on in. I say fuck that shit. Is having a different view on reality worth it? Sebastian Woodroffe died for his drugs.

youtu.be/gtVeByQOD8U?t=48s

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This.
Well not quite, but it produces permanent lasting benefit in social function, even months after use.

I discovered this for myself about six years ago. It seems that autistic brains are deficient in Serotonin. It turned out that so many people noticed the benefits, they ran a clinical trial. This will potentially become a licensed prescription medication.

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Caffeine is a scientifically addictive substance, there should be a minimum age to purchase and consume Caffeine.
.
Al Sharpton and Vicente Fox were the key note speakers at the last two Cannabis conventions, wonder why?
Synthetic Cannabis in candy and treats are documented for sending more children to the ER.
I agree with Legalizing to get the Taxes, F Mexico and CAN, but heavy regulation and punishment (mandatory drug test for all jobs, at least federal ones, reliable DUI test, maximum fines/jail for letting children get a hold of it or selling to minors, etc.) would need to be in place.

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I have never taken any drugs apart from the stuff they market to children, like caffeine and sugar (neither of which I consume anymore). Drugs aren't "self exploration", they're a way to run from the pain of living. Indulgence in the pleasurable is always the result of an inability to be content in the moment without adding a distraction. This doesn't mean that pleasurable things are bad, just that you could achieve satisfaction with less.

Philosophy is all I need.

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Psychadelics can possibly change somebody's mind who has otherwise become completely mentally stuck, with no way to change their perspective anymore. I don't think it has many uses beyond that, but I won't discount the possibility.

...

Fuck your datamining, there is no line, just thinking about taking drugs means you don't belong here. Absolutely disgusting.

You're the one who doesn't belong here with that puritan attitude. The National Socialists took a scientific approach to drugs, based on assessment of the evidence for benefits and harm. This included making use of the benefits where appropriate, for example methamphetamine was widely used in the Wehrmacht as a performance/alertness enhancer.

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Aren't you going to throw purity spiraling in there as well? You hit all the other beats.

Your argument was that one form of degeneracy is different from another for of degeneracy and should thus not be held to the same standards. I took your argument and shoved it down your throat. I avoided nothing.

Yeah, and the objective picture we can see today is that fucking around with the chemical balance orf your brain puts it out of whack and harms you long term. I have yet to see the drug that makes anyone but the rare neural disorder a better person, closer to the divine ideal.

First of all it was war. Secondly what they did in the 30s really doesn't matter. What you need to ask is what Hitler would have today with all the knowledge we now have of how meth fucks you up long term. What would his considerations have been today for when the soldiers were to return home and raise their families? Would he have been fine with making a very large segment of a generation of the nation's fathers meth addicts, with all the misery for friends and family that typically follows? I strongly believe he would have taken a much more restrictive stance, at least until the fortunes of the war turned.

the biggest problem here is anything that you use to 'enhance' yourself becomes a crutch. And a crutch relied upon for too long becomes a hinderance. i.e. you hurt your leg and walk on crutches too long it winds up taking longer for your leg to heal and you wind up learning how to walk with a fucked up gait

Everything is as above so below. When society is too easy the people get weak and bad times come.

And, that all applies to finding higher as well. I found a bit of it. Couldn't quite tell ya exactly what I have found, as the nature of truth and deception, as well as how reliable our eyes and ears are, is fickle thing, but I can say for sure there exists something which can not be rightly explained in prose. I have done drugs in the past, pot, did mushrooms once.. but it wasnt until I had been pretty much completely sober, no booze, pot or anything.. but I was taking small doses of adderall when I first started figuring it out after which I realized how fucking bad adderall is, shit's poison dont take it, at most I wouldnt take more than tiny piece of a pill at a time and have a definitive plan for getting off it that I saw that higher shadow behind the light.

I believe it is also possible that seeing the truth with an altered mind can affect how you interpret it. And, very importantly, meditation isnt the most important part. It is helpful, and useful, but develop the awareness of the inner-self so that you do not need to close your eyes to feel it. You should be able to do so while standing in line in a shitty store surrounded by the most insufferable people. I have learned some wonderful things. But each new thing raises 10 more questions. And never hold someone in the regard of them being a master. You are the student but you are the only one that can direct your classroom. You must choose a teacher who you decide is the best teacher to push your understanding, it could be master yogi buddah dickbag or it could be a rock, if you find a rock that you decide is the best teacher for you then it is. Also, never ever be foolish enough to believe that you know it all. When you climb to the top of the mountain and slay the dragon and grab all that sweet loot do you just sit there and talk about "hey remember that time I fucked up that dragon?" or are you going to look for another dragon? If you stay on that peak you climbed it becomes a plateau, but after you conquer the peak if you look around you will find there are yet more mountains.

In otherwords, there is always another angle. There is always a higher. Push yourself and strive. Approach everything as if you are training the ultimate competition. Always improve as much as possible.

Not only that but do not forget the 80/20 rule. The lower 80% of the population will always sift toward the very bottom of what is acceptable. If we want society to improve we have to lift what is acceptable out of the cesspool. There is no other way. You could purge every last degenerate, but if you do not raise the bar of what is acceptable 80% of that recently purged population will soon be rolling around in their own proverbial shit.

You will burn out you brain for ever if you touch DMT in an artificial form. Your body can only handle it in specific times of your sleep cycle, and at no other time.

Didn't try anything before 26.
Used some 2cb, it fucked me over, and is a shit drug. I regret it.
Smoked some weed afterwards, was something I liked, and I wasted a lot of time with it.
But.
I feel (emphasis on I feel - anecdote) that weed was the biggest redpilling factor for me. It gave me introspect that:
I'm in horrible shape (I started running)
My relationship is being fucked over (fixed that as well, and we finally had a baby after I detoxed for 3 months)
The world isn't what it seems (I started watching redpilling videos, and I was very pliable for redpilling under weed)
I'm wasting my life (got a better job, moved, had a baby, got promoted, saving to buy a house, physical shape is better than I had before)

I'd say hippie culture was just too open for brainwashing via drugs, if just some fucking shitty ass bushweed got me to review my ideals and redpill myself from Bernie-loving libfag to 1488 in a matter of months and around 10-12 grams.
Since then, didn't touch the shit for 2 years, but I appreciate the time I was doing it.

Also fuck smoking, ingesting is much better.

Nigger you're seriously gonna base your opinion off of consensus? Back to reddit or kill yourself now faggot.
Duh.
Literally smoked alcohol and degenerate stoner culture basically lives off of its illegal status.
50/50 on it, lots of potential for good, especially if used with the wife, but if you actually speak to users you'll see just how much it can reinforce mental ilness and liberalism in retards because "were all connected/one consciousness", medically should be given for cluster headaches and the terminally ill
See above
See above, rec for cluster headaches and terminally ill
See above
You cant allow all psychedelics, shit like N-bome is too unpredictable. Some people can take 2 tabs of it but others OD after just the 1. Doses on tabs are pretty high as well, see sites that sell derivatives like bromo dragonfly.
You should have cause its also pretty harmless, fun and good for ptsd.
Depends on the type of amphetamine. Adderal is pretty much the only way to get through medical school to the point where married friends of mine in med school who are insanely anti drug (even alcohol) have given in and now use adderal because its just too effective.
The problem is most people cannot moderate their use effectively. Its still a net positive because no criminal gangs profit from selling, sale is regulated so kids have a much harder time accessing it, tax revenue is good. Still have the problem of responsible use and childcare. Youd have to leave your kids with grandma if you wanna take acid or mushrooms. Drug education can reduce abuse but you'll still see it just like you'll still see retards call an ambulance because they think theyre dying from a marijuana overdose or too much lsd.

The double helical structure of dna was a puzzle solved thanks to acid.
Yes and no. If you're a redditor hippie then yeah you're fucking done for. If you're a normal person then no. I once took some L with a girl i knew, she found herself disgusted, for the first time ever, regarding the fact that she had slutted it up during some years of her life. She spent 2 hours talking with me and cleaning her room as a start to sort of cleaning up her life. She got a boyfriend a few months after and has quit sex with strangers. I knew a russian who tried some with me in college, he began to think about the origins of civilization and simply came to realize its pure self interest that drives people. 2 close friends of mine dropped with me, one was your typical boomer tier right winger who we fed the bezmenov pill, the other is an 8/pol/ user and knew his shit. Both of then came out of the experience saying to themselves they must work as hard as possible to profit and ensure the best life possible for their future children.
You say this but the only thing i can think of is you dont speak from experience. Its as if your mind is going at a million miles an hour which is why its so difficult to convey messages and ideas under the influence (which produces the rants that lack an ending or consistency, you forget the idea as you try to formulate sentences and retain the structure of your thoughts). I'll grant that there are times when people do lose it and actually give in to hallucinations, but its really just a matter of realizing their irrationality is caused by their drug use.

I will add, anyone with a long term gf or wife really need to take acid together at least once. Its really a lovely experience when you're with someone you love, the sex will also be the best you've ever had and the most emotional you'll ever have. If anyone should be using acid recreationally, its couples.

I've never seen MDMA have a negative affect on anyone.

Meth doesn't necessarily fuck you up long term. It's inhaling filthy backyard meth from pipes and/or injecting it that fucks you up long term. Pharmaceutical grade meth for oral administration is still available today as a licensed drug (Desoxyn). Obviously, the potential for addiction and abuse is noted., but it has its uses.

I don't think anyone synthesizes it. It's easy enough to extract the natural product from acacia root bark with basic household solvents.

You are absolutely correct, and offspring will regress toward the norm. Even if we in some fantasy world went full Garrison and purged all but the best 20% of the population the potential degenerates would be right back in 20 years so we have to deal with it. As Hitler said: The laws against theft were not made for moral and upstanding people. The same goes for moral guidelines, which must be firm enough to restrain the bulk of those who have degenerate tendencies.

Reddit has tons of boards dedicated to obtaining and abusing drugs

Nigger fag spotted.

…wat?

??????????????
If a drug doesn't fuck you up then why would gaining an addiction to it even be considered a problem? You do realize every honest physician advises against administrating meth precisely becasue the common problems with developed addiction? When I wrote fucked up was honestly just thinking about the addiction becasue even if you can stop yourself from going off the deep end just fighting back and cutting down on something you've come to rely on messes people up.


This is some weak bait mang.

DRINK BEER NIGGERS

Go back to church and play with your priest.

Trips in the wood can be degenerate, if you forsake everything else.

That is the true definition of muh degeneracy, it's something that degenerates your state both physically and spiritually. Pretty much anything in excess and at the expense of other activities will do that, in varying degrees. Same with drugs.

E.g weed culture is completely disgusting, but I would probably take a stoner over a no-funz puritan who is locked in a mental cage where everything to him is defined in black and white through literal meanings of words without any room for context or nuances, i.e you're actually just another fucking normie, but with autism.

I think I had a joint at a new years party 2 years ago or something so I must be a degenerate nigger right?

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I actually don't mind if people want to smoke cannabis or do psychedelics in moderation, but the culture around these substances is extremely degenerate and must be stamped out. Especially weed/stoner culture. That shit is gay.

Will send you to heaven.

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Mentally progressing is degenerate? I'm not talking about being some fucking couch brick or tweaker Moishe, I'm talking about enjoying an experience with the intent to learn from it.

This.
You have no idea how much addiction to hard drugs can change someone.
I had a longtime friend who turned into a total sleazebag after getting hooked on crack.
This was a woman who threw away a successful career and boyfriend just to turn into a thief and a liar to cover for her habit.
I regret not finding out sooner, because I would have bailed right then and there, saving myself a lot of heartache.


Another big problem with addicts: when they're into their habit full-time, doing the right thing gets in the way of having fun, so, they take shortcuts, like leaving them in the other room, instead of the grandparents' place, and, eventually the kids get exposed, which normalizes it in their impressionable, young minds.

kek

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Heil'd, but what about
if EVERYONE just…
…didn't racemix
…improved themselves
…upheld moral and reason
…gassed jews
?

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Catch this pepe and go REEEEEEEEE

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I think like most things they can be used as tools or as escapes.
I've used DMT and I believe it has brought me a much more realistic mindset and helped me snap out of the individualist bullshit pushed on me since preschool in CA.
Weed has the same effects. Anything that puts you in a different mindset can be helpful for seeing bigger pictures, as long as your intentions are to better understand the world, not make easy excuses while intoxicated and more nieve.
I will admit I could be wrong. But I don't drink for that reason, I see it as an escape, not a tool

...

Weak.

easy. as a powerful person with influence and opinion, you have to figure out what is the best balance for things like this. for instance if you were designing a society you would have to choose what is economically feasible. it shouldnt be "are drugs good or bad"
simply understanding that there is a balance, and people making there own decisions is almost good enough

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The line is drawn where you lie to yourself and tell yourself that it's for self-exploration instead of a desire to get high or even simple curiosity about what all the other kids are making such a fuss about.

There are many addicts in this world that try to justify their bad habits to themselves and others by claiming that they're more creative and/or productive under the influence, but this is a lie. Drugs do not bring out anything from within that wasn't already there; they just provide an excuse and an occasion to examine what is already there. If you really want to self-examine, do it sober and try meditation or some other non-drug mind-expansion technique. You'll get there faster and your results will be less muddled if you're not drug-addled when you do it.

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There's a time and a place for everything and it's called College. College is basically containment for young stupid adults. Drugs are for young, stupid adults. Come out of college and 1 of 2 things happens:


or

< Wow the real world is so backwards and uneducated, they don't understand how important DRUGS/FEMINISM/FAGGOT BULLSHIT/PARTYING/ETC. really are. They're so closed minded.

If you are no longer eligible for college, you really didn't miss much besides realizing that best case scenario you had an okay time getting fucked up or worst case scenario you found something you like so much you are now enslaved by it. Most normal, well adjusted, intelligent people do drugs and drink excessively for a while and then realize that every weekend is just seeing how fucked up you can get with your friends and it's pointless. They then stop. Other people don't because it becomes their identity and they become a burnout.

There is nothing drugs can teach you that sober life can't, besides doing LSD once or twice, MAX and even then it's mostly about the fragility of perception and how you are a part of the universe, again stuff you can pretty much learn by being observant and intelligent. Even then there's only a small window of opportunity in COLLEGE to do it, around other functional, intelligent people who can help you have an experience worth having.

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fuck dude, I think even caffeine is kinda degenerate tbh. As far as psychedelics are concerned, while its true that there is genuine insight to be had from an altered state of consciousness I dont think these insights are worth fucking with your brain for. It would be like taking steroids as a shortcut to having larger muscles while missing the point that the purpose of exercise is to become healthy, not strong.

Think of it more like a car, with the engine being your brain. You can get through life absolutely fine without ever having to open the hood of the car yourself, you can even be really really good at getting around in your car without ever looking inside its machinery, and there's nothing wrong with never actually looking. Psychedelics are just the latch that opens the hood up to let you see inside, what you do with that sort of access and knowledge is entirely a judgement of your own character. Some people choose to run with their hood open all day just to watch what happens or because they like the noise, others pop the hood only once or twice to either better understand how the underlying structure works or go in and make adjustments or fine-tuning to make driving easier every once in a while. Sometimes really bad things can happen with the inner workings exposed and modifiable like that though, which is why people ought to be careful if they do choose to do so. Drugs are just a tool, and every tool has its appropriate time and place, as well as the capacity for destructive misuse.

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Says the guy who didn't get his STEM degree.

If you think coffee is degenerate it is time to just hang yourself.

alright, how much is starbucks paying you?

I got a chemistry degree. I then worked at citibank because a chemistry degree is only useful if you want a PHD (i don't want to be in school another 5-6 years) or a Medical degree (see previous) or if you want to be a lab tech (boring as fuck). So I went to ShittyBank because I can into math, and hated it. I now work construction management and am getting my contractors license this week. Please tell me more about myself.

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I'm not sure how you expect to make me look bad because you got quit early in a field that needed an advanced degree.
"I got a psychology degree you retard I just chose not to get a PHD."
Congrats?

what the fuck is an contractors license.

Too much of it (or dosing too often) can be neurotoxic, damaging (i think) serotonin receptors. This is not seen at all in users of standard doses with several weeks of distance between uses, but there is a slight neurotoxic effect thats noted but not completely understood.

Addiction in general does it, not just to drugs.
My friend became a gambling addict. He could turn 5 dollars into 2500 in a single night, he did it in front of me 4 different times. Then hed go back the next day with half of that in his pocket and lose it all. Then the next day the other half was gone. He got a girlfriend, a cashier at the casino. Slowly he pawned his possessions to keep playing. Then he stole from his girlfriend. Theyd fight but she'd forgive him. One day we were supposed to hang out with another friend, he wantes to gamble which was fine with us, we went in with 60 bucks max and went for fun and drinks on the house. He didnt, and he needed money too. He'd pawned his valuable possessions so he stole his dads 24 carat gold watch worth $16,000. Didnt have his license so my friend pawned it for him for $1,300 and he lost it all that same day. When his dad couldnt find the watch the addict blamed my friend and almost sent him to jail just so his dad wouldnt find out. I never spoke to him after that, realizing he was too far gone. Ive heard from friends he tried to kill himself at one point but his dad walked in before he necked himself and that now hes dating an older rich woman for her money, gambling with it constantly.
I know your feels. I didnt know the extent of his issues until we began spending more time in his house. When i showed up the day of the watch he already took it. Good thing too, dad had cameras in the house which is why my friend got the blame, video showed both of them going in his room.
Bingo. I dont think weed will be as bad by the time i have kids given the wave of legalization, the sooner its socially seen as smokeable alcohol tier the better. Other drugs i partake in like mdma, shrooms, dmt and lsd though? If the future kids arent at a friends house for a sleepover or at grandmas then theres no fucking way I'm using. Maybe DMT (and only dmt given its 5-15 min trip, can just tell the kid it was a long shower) if I'm in the bathroom and mom stays sober to handle any need the kids may have.

Here's what is known so far

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4873937/

Read the entire fucking paper. Research has flaws. Understand how they came to their conclusions.

Beautifully put though you need one more analogy to account for the fun aspect of it. Lsd is amazing but sometimes i just use it for sex with the gf and to watch films (mostly anime films like Paprika or Mind Game). Go for a walk in town and then back to the apartment. While there is obviously a huge potential for improving yourself, its sometimes just for fun.

Psychedelics are literally safer than weed. Theres no brain fuck up, just a panic caused by either denial or the altered state itself.
Coffee is the white mans non degenerate drink, see any european city and its floods of cafes. Starbucks is degenerate, brewing your own and you'll find theres no better way to start the day.

The very paper still says you see deficits and even supports my claim of slight neurotoxicity. Their caveat of maybe impulsives seek it is nice but i highly doubt that you literally have to be fucked with EF in order to seek mdma. Dont know why you grouped me with the rest but interesting paper nonetheless. Thanks for the read

Even heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, PCP, and ketamine can be used productively. The problem is, using those drugs productively requires a profound spiritual strength that is missing from the overwhelming majority of the populace.

To me it depends on usage. I have used psychedelics years ago and have found them to be positive vaguely spiritual/meditative experiences, not decadent especially compared to something like alcohol, but then again I have a libertine cosmopolitan upbringing and I still have traces of that left after the redpilling. Whenever I have used a psychedelic I felt compelled to not touch them again until at least a year or two later. After the redpilling I don't know if I would touch them ever again given the opportunity, personally.

I have an acquaintance who claims he needs to experience LSD every month or every two weeks to make his anxiety and depression go away and it makes him sound like a fag though, it's a real shame and I consider something like that to be degenerate.

Using influence under any substance as an excuse to do stupid things or absolve yourself from responsibility is the lowest shit tier degenerate behavior.

I hate weed but it's probably because I never got into it because it made me feel like shit.

Now I habitually pop red pills because edgy content gives me a dopamine hit.
Probably is tbh.


I'm willing to agree this is the case for many uses. Psychedelics seem designed to give you many false positive "aha" moments and it's easy to try to chase those in an effort to find something of real meaning.


I can't imagine something more pathetic than actually getting addicted to psychedelics. I'm not sure it's even possible.

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Drugs are a global jewish weapon against societies. What confuses you?

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It always happens with merchants and soldiers. Not to a great degree in a healthy society, but it actually is ok just a little bit. Giving your women to other tribes and societies, though, that's unacceptable.

Reading the first two words told me enough:
Ie we cherry-picked other people's research to support our predestined conclusions.

But let's suppose that the conclusions are correct, and long-term use does result in a very slight decrease in executive function. That could be said of many drugs, both legal and illegal; the question is, do the benefits outweigh the harm? As an autist who has found immense benefit to my social function from this drug, the answer for me personally is not in doubt. For a broader view, consider the number of people that have been taking it over the past 30 years or so since it's been widely available. I've yet to see a person that was fucked-up by MDMA use.

Alexander Shulgin used himself as a human guinea pig for every psychedelic imaginable and lived to 89, remaining in good health until the last seven years of his life.


I should have added "with the exception of idiots taking insane overdoses". And it really does take an idiot to overdose, because the appropriate dose is typically around the 100mg mark, a quantity that you can judge by eye. LD50 is several grams for an average human. It's not one of those super powerful microgram-dose drugs like Fentanyl that you can easily accidentally OD on.

There has been an unfortunate trend towards ridiculous high-dose pills of 250mg or so (which no-one should take in one go). If you take several of those at once you're going to be unwell, but if you have any sense you can avoid that just by noticing how physically large the pill is, and using appropriate caution.

The vast majority of deaths and injuries attributed to "ecstasy" are actually caused by adulterants or completely different drugs sold as MDMA. Others are caused by dehydration and heatstroke when people go nuts dancing at rave parties. One famous case in the UK - Leah Betts - actually turned out to be from drinking too much water.

Take away the issues caused by illicit production and distribution, make pharmaceutical quality MDMA available with proper dosing advice, and the very small number of people that currently get harmed will shrink to zero.