Were the Germanic tribes civilized?

Most all land was purchased from Indians and that which wasn't was conquered in retaliatory wars for Indian raids.

For the time yes
They did
They didnt. The Germans and Gauls had large scale settlement and cities by the time of rome but never united into an empire the size of rome.

Yeah, but they had no idea wtf was going on and you know it as well as I do.

Which I have no issue with whatsoever.

A combination of difficult, undeveloped terrain, hostile natives, and overextension. Plus the desire to establish a defensive perimeter along the Rhine and Danube rivers. Moreover, Germanic tribes were rather poor. There was seldom anything valuable to loot really. There were better targets for Rome; Dacia with its gold mines, Egypt with grain, Syria with its money making cities and so on. It was rather the unwillingness of the Romans to wage a total war against the Germans then Germans being so good at warfare.

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Yet another moron. Hey moron, has it ever occurred to you that we weren't alive back then? Has it ever occurred to you that we're not personally responsible for the past actions of every White civilization in the past and that they were not all the same?

Are you seriously so fucking retarded that you will just hamfistedly grasp at straws that aren't even there, even when they imply the opposite thing? The implication of the anti-civilization poster would FAVOR tribal life, if anything.

But the natives are uncivilized! How much of a resistance could they give?

I find that somewhat dubious, given the circumstances.

Come now user, as far as the Romans knew, three might be a mountain of pure gold on the shores of the Baltic!
They didn't go there because they couldn't, despite trying multiple times, not because there wasn't any desire to.

That is one thing I never got, liberals tarring all white people for the supposed crimes of one white ethnicity.

Well, define "civilized". They had their language, customs and traditions and all, but not so much in urbanization and blobs. We may never know how they lived prior to the new age, hell the ones in germany migrated there 1000 BC. One strong reason could be because the climate and environment were pretty harsh that it hampered their development.

They were doing bad, so bad it took the Huns to awaken them and start forming kingdoms.

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Checked for an interesting context.

See, your opposition REQUIRES that that mentality be truth.
Why? Because if its not, a whole bunch of things start to fall apart.

Like National Socialism.
Imagine if you were to argue that, because the Roman Republic fell to empire, that ALL such democratic republics were doomed to the same fate… The whole modern political context begins to crumble.

Yet, that's EXACTLY what the narrative is as-goes National Socialism - any and all espousals of such ideology will, they say, inevitably lead to the same end, which they imply is the holohoax.
If that started to fall apart, if someone could and did argue that National Socialism, like democratic republicanism, is NOT doomed to repeat the same paths in every instance of espousal, what then?

The cognitive dissonance of it consumes these pathetic fools.

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A.) Define "civilization".
B.) they had big cities on important trade routes, just not enough of them
"Progress of civilizations" is a marxist meme devoid of reality. They didn't become "civilized" naturally with accordance to the Medditerean civ because they weren't forced into it.
Their environment wasn't able to sustain agriculture needed to supply a big number of towns where inventions happen. Why didn't it? Modern Germany was in ancient times borderline taiga and not fertile.
Medditerean civs didn't advance due to some magical force but because they had good climate to grow crops. To give your nog a joggin: Why is the "Fertile crescent" today a desert?

They were forced into it because the fertile land attracted other people and needed organization(civilization) to defend themselves.

*ancient

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And what "big cities" were they, might I ask?

Yes, mudhuts also contain wood.

A few carved rocks =/= good living conditions. Even africa beats you here.

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There was a truckload of Germans hiding in the woods and you don't know the terrain. It's a perfect spot to get ambushed as the late Quinctilius Varus experianced first hand.

It really wasn't. Germanic slaves were regarded as unruly, treacherous and dishonest and ready to slit the throats of their Roman masters and run innawoods at the first opportunity. The backbone of the Roman economy relied on taxes levied from Hispania, Egypt and Syria. Germania was far less developed, possessed fewer villages, no bigger towns to speak of and had little food surplus and thus a far lesser capacity for paying tribute. The Romans were mostly interested in conquering areas that had a high degree of self-sufficiency which could provide a tax base for them to extract from. Most of Germania did not have the higher level of urbanism at this time as in comparison even with some Gallic settlements, which were in many ways already integrated into the Roman trade network as in the case of southern Gaul. In a cost/benefit analysis, the prestige to be gained by conquering more territory was outweighed by the lack of financial benefits accorded to conquest

Romans ceased to view Germania as a potential target for expansion after the disastrous battle of the Teutoburg forest where three whole legions got wiped out. It's a pivotal event resulting in the end of Roman expansion further into central Europe. Later on Rome tried to control Germania beyond the Rhine indirectly, by appointing client kings and from time to time leading punitive expeditions to pacify the Germans when they chimped out too much. However, the dream of establishing a new frontier on the Elbe river was long gone.

They really didn't. Only Hannibal forced Rome to go full guns blazing, Later on after the crisis of the third century the Empire was ravaged by repeated barbarian invasions, civil wars, plagues, and widespread economic depression. It was in no shape to continue fending off the Germanic tribes. There was the will to fight, but the state was unable to function and simply collapsed under its own weight after centuries of mismanagement.

Its the religion(they only using rune for religious purpose,signature or property but recording events history,literature,document, laws, was a big nono to the priesthood.) and type of government being a tribe (which almost always evolve to a monarchy kingdom) Germans put more interest in developing warfare related so instead of emulating Greek,Latin,Celtic tech like infrastructure, agriculture, philosophy, they rather prefers emulating other civs warfare tech like weapon,(pilum,crossbow), armor, horse breeding, tactics ,strategy and they were fucking pros at it especially ambushes.

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C'mon, say "snowniggers btfo" we all know you are just itching to say it.

Yes, that's why they are called mudhuts. Because they're not made of stone, something even africa had.
Just to expand on this a bit; We don't know how shit germanic life was due to them never keeping records of these things. But judging from environment and general hygiene at the time, it's safe to assume it was way worse than anything in rome.

GUESS THE RACE

TIL:

See also:

Indeed, and those Germans were quite clever, and very civilized folk.

For Germanboos you guys sure don't know your megaliths.
Rockcut ruins, mountain cities and megaliths in general are very politically incorrect to talk about, absolutely verboten.

As always, history is fake and gay.

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Now you?
You I like.

History is, indeed, fake and gay - and those who believe they actually have a really good grasp on the way things went more than like 100 years ago are generally some of the biggest faggots I've ever encountered on this Earth.

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Take your pick.

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The ENF arrived in Europe in 10,000 BC, and reached Iberia and Northern Europe by 4000 BC.

In comparison, yamnaya entered europe only around 3000 BC, established CWC around 2500 BC, entered Greece ~2000 BC and didn't establish themselves in northwest Europe until ~1000 BC.

In other words there were no Germans until after the Trojan war had already taken place. The Germans entered germany about the same time that the PIE conquered ENF in the Mediterranean.

You can think of the romans and germans as twin brothers born simultaneously: one conquers a pre-existing agricultural infrastructure and large subservient population of ENF to work for him, the other has a bunch of cold wet rocky forests full of lions and man-eating cows to deal with and the only locals are WHG cavemen.

You would know about that, wouldn't you, cuckchan?

Let me stop you from embarrassing yourself and say the germanics started conquering other peoples and expanding once they stopped killing each other. When german kingdoms started forming and organizing they also started gaining land back from the hunnic expansions.
Uh, yeah they were all built around the same time. 9th century.
Rome had modern (at the time) medicine and practiced hygiene, while most germanic tribes most likely didn't.

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No, you faggots say it all the time here, using the same arguments each and every time.

Here's the devils wall, it was built by the gods; isn't that cute?

Rock cut ruins are the same as dark age castles, acid rain probably worn them down.

Look at this pyramid Napoleon built in the middle of Netherlands for the view, apparently he built it after he shot the nose off the sphinx for the lulz.

Here's another pyramid, construction workers built for fun in France. I mean, they had to build around it, but it was worth it.

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You do understand that most European (ie White) homes and structures for ALL of human history up to and including today are made primarily of wood, right?
If your argument is that every building that is not made of stone (here I assume you mean stone walled, since even in rome most "stone" buildings had wooden roof supports holding up roof tile) then most buildings today are "mudhuts."
Even if your claim is restricted to "not stone or "modern" building materials like steel and concrete" then most rural and suburban Whites today live in "mudhuts" since most houses today are still made primarily of wood. Indeed, if one considers fiberboard, drywall, and mineral wool as "mud" since they are, after all, made from rocks, then most modern houses are made from wood and mud.
In other words, your argument is stupid.
Building materials are building materials.
They are the same or similar all over the world.
How they are used can vary, and the skill and sophistication that goes into using them can vary a lot.
Additionally, stone is not a very good material when one is building in cold regions. Stone has essentially zero insulating ability. Germans built with wood partly due to this fact. Also Germany was one massive forest, so there was a lot of wood to work with. Much of Rome's empire was arid with far less wood.

Furthermore, Rome was, to a large extent, shit.
Rome gets praised for being this "great empire," but they weren't. They were horrible. Their entire economy was based upon slave labor and militaristic expansionism (ie an early form of the military industrial complex).
Most of the citizens of Rome became hedonistic faggots who lived on the government dole (ie bread and circuses). Indeed, it was considered SHAMEFUL for a citizen to work since "working" is what slaves did.
Most of the work was done by slaves or "freemen" who were neither citizens nor ethnically Roman.
Ultimately the whole slavery shitshow combined with demographics brought everything down. Rome allowed their Volk to decay into nothingness through hedonism, degeneracy, and interbreeding with non-Romans. Thus they literally died out and their empire died with them. At the end the military was mostly composed of foreigners who didn't GAF when SHTF.
The USA could learn much from the fall of Rome.

That really doesnt explain the military defeats rome suffered or the constant border wars

You gonna cry for every one of those civilizations and attack their enemies or is it just Western civilization that your commie brain hates so much?

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OP ignoring getting btfo because he is a fag

Read about Weimar Germany, the downfall of Rome, the middle ages, etc.

Cities are vectors of vice, plage, attract alien migrants like a moth to flame.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

Because they had hundreds and shires.
Because smiths and merchants and bards were considered more useful than masoners.
I don't know what this bit is referring to.

Zig Forumsfags are triggered easily

There is no reason that communal living must lead to any of those things.

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Written language, written law codex, and professional institutions to maintain such law.

The simple answer is that they didn't need to. Western Civilization as we like to think about it originated in Greece. Greece created the city-state system which was what worked best for their environment and issues. This influenced Rome, which adopted a lot of Greek social structures. Rome was able to develop an Imperialistic idea; the state became its own metaphysical entity. Because of this it was possible for both a Latin and Etruscan to be "Roman." In order to feed this imperial idea they needed to fight harder. It wasn't like Germanic tribes which just needed to protect their own interests. Rome needed land, servants, gold, honor. This is why it spread to France, Spain, Germany, Britain, etc. Soon the unstoppable force of Time had spread across most of Europe.

This isn't to say the Germans haven't contributed to social development. Don't forget that it was the Germans who first broke from Monarchy and the shackles of the Papacy. They are the ones who created the 'Nation-state' in its modern form. These Germans are responsible for America; they are responsible for Italy, especially its Fascism. The idea that Germans were mud hut dwelling savages while Rome was mighty and civilized is mostly pushed as a pseudo-racial shaming. They view Italians as less why, and thus Romans. It is based in an extremely materialistic worldview which sees no purpose in humanity other than acquiring wealth. These people cannot appreciate the beauty of a simple life; nor can they actually appreciate the grandeur of Rome, which they are only elevating for the sake of argument.

How about you buy yourself a visa and go check out all of those castles over there. Some of them are about a thousand years old.

Romans inherited civilization from someone else (Greece) who inherited it from someone else and so on and so forth. “Atlantis” isn’t so inaccurate because it come from somewhere initially. Just because we aren’t sure where exactly doesn’t mean it started with Sumer (who just suddenly had an advanced alphabet one day). Also fuck off and read a book nigger/sage gay thread

I do think that it is unfortunate, the extent to which Native American life was destroyed. Ideally they would still have pockets of territory to continue their traditions. But a lot of the fighting was defensive. The idea that primitive societies were naturally pacifistic towards modernized ones is laughable; it is only pushed for the sake of the Marxian "noble savage" and anti-Colonial (Western) ideas. The Germans did some horrendous things to the Romans; the Romans did horrendous things in reverse. Many Natives attacked settlers; many lived in peace. The key thing you have to remember is the Native Americans aren't all gone. South America is still mostly native, though mixed. Clearly they have chosen to adopt a modern outlook, since they could have very easily reverted back after the Spanish were kicked out.

People develop a lot of different ideas about social progress. Some view it as inherently good, they think others should be civilized as an act of charity. Some view it as a bad thing, a thing which restricts the human spirit by forcing it to conform to arbitrarily created manners. I think that it is something which degenerates society and makes it less pure; however, it is inevitably, irreversible. You cannot fight back against time. You cannot ignore time. You can only accept it and try to transmute its evil power for good purposes.

Because they built their cities out of wood.. It was heavily forested. Want examples of their civilization? Archaeology not Tacitus or whatever turn of the century romantacization nonsense.

Slaves. Ancient Germanics only had slaves in the sense of someone who had "gambled" his life and lost, he'd be a "slave" until he made something for himself. With the lack of huge amounts of actual slaves to make up a grand construction force, stone monuments couldn't be built. Before mechanization that is the only way such structures could be built, since paying the help would bankrupt you. Also usually the Germanics killed foreign prisoners of war as a way to give honor back to a coward who had forsaken his own people. All Germanic execution methods have basis in their stories for giving back or allowing their slain to regain some worth, like the hanging upon a tree is to try and help the hanged man become wise.

Christianity brought the jew who through learning Roman techniques of loan and debt slavery and being the only ones allowed to use it were able to create a force of slaves and peasantry for the King or the Church they worked for, in order to build all the stone monuments so many marvel at. Its not a coincidence that it was almost always the peasants who would go out and kill a jew loaner, never a knight, and the King would only tell the jews to leave.

Anti-semitism though has been a useful weapon for the jew in keeping power, by creating a dialectic where both sides link back to the jew he has been able to split a once unified Christian religion into many pieces, inspire the Liberals to kill their own Kings, and are considered the progenitors of the belief system.

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I was blackpilled for a while on being white and white history but threads like this really make me appreciate my germanic heritage.
Thank you anons, you're all wonderful, white people and don't let any kike discourage you from being proud of your ancestors

polite sage for OT

Odin led them out of the middle east to their "promised land" where they fucked and thrived until the Romans got sick of their shit and civilized them. They were always top-tier stock. They just couldn't use it to their full potential until later. Hitler talks about this in Mein Kampf.

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Low population density. Are they just supposes to build huge cities for no one to live in just so some neckbeard 2000 years later can deem them "civilized?" All original civilizations appeared around the same latitude because that's where the fertile land was.

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Yeah the Romans had a great love affair with the jews even before converting to them. Though in 139 BC Gnaeus Cornelius expelled them but of course the merchants came back and by 100 AD Josephus was the main historian for Rome. Josephus "Testimonium Flavianum" was spread far and wide over the Roman Empire then because of his position in Rome.

Christians brought the jew into unconquered Europe and Romans brought the jew to what they held in their Empire. Germanics have always seen (((them))) though as a foreign race, no matter the brainwashing.

I think the implication is that having large cities means that you have more people unified… The Germanic TRIBES had low population density because they were fighting each other, AKA "uncivilized".

This is why the early Romans symbolized their unification as the "Fasces" or "Fascism". In comparison the Germans remained divided until after Napoleon!

actually i recall they where quite impressed by them.
jewbiotic pill = barbar- berber-sandnigger

Romans had some other word for northern whites that slipped my memory.

Megaliths were built by the giants, that's why people don't like talking about it. You can't get modern people to build it with cranes. All their theories fail in practice.

Because cities are an expensive cancer that gradually accumulate people who are useless in any kind of productive endeavour.

Same reason USA couldn't defeat Iraq or Afghanistan.

Because you're a kike.

wow sticks in the ground laid for a mile, amazing.

Civilization only became a necessity for those peoples that were unable to live in balance with nature. They bred too much and killed too many animals, making it necessary to become sedentary and live off agriculture. This lead to a strong decline in the health of the individual, but it was what made civilizations possible. Without grain storage, cities could never have existed. Cities then allowed for people to specialize in different fields, and for technology to improve.

I would wager that 2000 years ago, it would have been preferable to be a strong and free Germanic man, at one with his family, tribe and nature, than a Roman legionary living off grain rations for 25 years, away from his family, risking his life living like a slave, all in hopes of a pension. Great civilization you have there.

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A: No, barbarians were the niggers of antiquity.

Yes, old germanic tribes living in mudhuts and banging sheep were SOOOO better than Rome.

You're a faggot. Rome had well developed architecture, roads, sewers, baths, an well-defined rule of law and a single currency across the entire territory (a great feat)

You're letting your admiration for Hitler and Germany blind you into thinking anceint germaic tribes were some grand and mighty civilization that eclipses Rome.

That was in the later days of rome, when roman citizenship was handed out liek candy to increase taxation by incompetent emperors.

I don't know if I'm just being autistic and this is what you meant to suggest implicitly, but if you compare your temperature map with a map of the Roman Empire, the Blue might as well be a no-go zone for the Romans, barring a few encroachments on the periphery. I think it's a fair assumption that they were simply incapable of operating outside a similar enough climate to their own, just as later the Europeans needed to learn how to effectively deal with malaria before expanding into the tropics in earnest

Cities are cancer.
Because huts and tents don't need AC in the summer and still get perfectly warm in the cold months with a fire. And the forest is fucking amazing.

Were they primitive, though?
They were not.

But Christians (and this is what this is all about) think that Chimps and co made things like the "Sutton Hoo" helmet (which is a tribute to Odin) etc.
Or Vikangz being chimps when in reality they were incredibly advanced.

You cannot use the bible to elevate those who aren't already elevated.
Also, Germany turned Christianity Germanic, not the other way around, this is true but I don't have the patience to list it all, so you an just go ahead and just wave it away with that as a reasoning.

No matter that if you substracted everything non biblical from Germanic belief, customs and co, even in churches themselves, you would have almost nothing remaining.

I mean, Birthdays are a heathen tradition.
Even basic bitch shit you wouldn't even think about is heathen, but yeah fuck listing all that shit on an impermanent imageboard where people don't give a shit anyway.
Just take your lack of foreskin and go to "heaven", which totally exists, bro.

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Thet's barely above nigger-level engineering. Am I supposed to be impressed?

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Hey D&C kike hows the weather in tel aviv ?

Let's see:

- Chased wymyn who comitted adultery out of the village and left them to starve in the forest.
- Gave the bog to traitors, liars and other criminals.
- Didn't pray to a god that guilt tripped them about an "original sin" two people did millenias before them, while at the same time claiming to be all-knowing, all-powerful but unable to explain why he's not doing anything or letting shit happen in the first place.
- Had law spoken by elder members of the tribe instead of whoever bought his way into high places.
- Did not speculate over resources.
- Did not speculate over land.
- Everybody was armed.
- Most men were free men as opposed to slaves (all the labour force of today is what they would have identified as slaves in those days).

I don't know if they were more civilized than the Romans, but they were certainly more civilized than anything around today.

Define Civilisation first before you ask if certain people are civilized.
The Germanic tribes were migrands from Northern Europe into Central Europe and mixed, conquered and/or replaced the already living there "Celtic" tribes.
These "celtic" people build towns, forts and keeps and considering that the Germanic people took over without a problem, they knew how to upkeep these, which means they had towns, forts and keeps in their old home in Northern Europe.
They didn't, they actually lived in complex villages, that their buildings looked different to those the romans build is because they were adapted to a different climate.
Look at it from a different perspective, whenever "Germanic" or just Europeans encountered new technologies they adapted and learned to use them.
Most other races on this planet fail to do this even today when the internet exist and they are given new technologies on a golden tablet.

user to give you a scale of how stupid this comparison is:
The culture of the Germanic Tribes started in the European Bronze Age 3200 BC to 600BC and together with other European cultures transitioned into the Iron Age in 500 BC.
The Roman Empire and the Celts were also Iron Age cultures.
The Native Americans of North America were more or less stuck in the Stone Age when Europeans discovered the American continent in the 16th Century.
Only some Native Americans of Middle and South America managed to reach the Bronze Age before the Spanish came.
When the Romans meet the Germans, they had the same level of technology even if it dosn't look that way to us.
When Europeans meet the Native Americans there was a almost 4000 year gap of technological knowledge between those two cultures.

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Japs.

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In the writings of Hannibal during his trek to Rome he wrote of them in a very detailed way. They never engaged Carthage but would run from them instead or leave young women for them. So Germania seemed to be wise enough to see the writing on the wall of what Rome was and did what they could to help Carthage reach Rome.

I'm wrong here, I mixed up the Gauls and Germania.

They drank milk, the sign of civilized people (savages have lactose intolerance).

If they had build cities, they would have been conquered by the Romans. It was only after the Roman threat was eliminated that they could settle down and establish the sort of trade routes required to support cities.

The Germanic had it that the priest lived out in the wilderness communing in groves, for his entire life wandering, instead of living in luxury in some silly man-made construction.

The Roman allowing a priest to have such extravagance is such a huge weakness which pales in comparison to any great building that they could make because you need to have your priests able to commune correctly while complex architecture isn't a requirement for civilization.

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It is almost like people don't understand that all the 'rules' of civilization are imaginary. Or that life is nothing other than a pride swallowing siege peppered by humiliation, agony and death; with a few golden moments spent with your people and family or that the most valuable thing on the planet is the chance to interact with your own people.

At some point, since the 'rules of civilization' are being so blatantly violated every day and their faces are being completely rubbed in it, like it was a steaming pile of dogshit, you'd think they would wake up to the fact that the whole construct was a complete fantasy that required their consent or that every day they consented they were complicit in the death of their own loved ones. Will they wake up? Not today.

This is true and the same thing happened in America and Europe today. All the wealth of the world was stolen and used to purchase the Earth and everything in it. So now it is simply a question for the (((purchasers))) to eliminate through war, invasion and starvation the 'natives' of the Earth (this means you and your families). If you liked this game mash the like button and don't forget to donate on your way out.

We have come so far with our programmed civilization. Look how laudable our behavior is now…unlike our ancestors who valued freedom and family above anything else, we now have plastic dominoes pizza and porn. The artistic and moral/cultural ethical progress of our people is leaps and bounds higher than it was back then. I wonder what the future holds for such a fine and noble people?

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I prefer extreme late term abortions.

dumbass…that is not what these places looked like IRL. They were covered in filth and stench. The smoke from house fires for cooking and heating alone probably made it look like china on a good day. There were rats, shit in the street and dead bodies. Disease and plague was rampant at times.

Never mind that it took the lives of millions of slaves, the deaths and destruction of millions of living beings to prop up this 'civilization' that you vaunt and think that you are somehow 'a part of'…humanity STOPPED being the driver for civilization the moment corporations took over…you are NOTHING now, just a glorified consumer slave. You create nothing. You advance nothing. You are worthless since all the creation impetus belongs to corporations (giants). There is no future for you or your children because you a nothing more than a cog in a machine. 'Civilization' devoured you and shat you out only to devour you from the other direction and vomit you up. There was no future for humanity in 'civilization' but you are seriously so stupid that you can't even figure that out but think somehow that all this 'belongs to you and your past'.

If that is true ('belongs to you and your past') BTW you should be killed on sight as a worse plague than has ever occured in the history of humanity. You are a cancer on Earth…you are worse than the black plague..you are death.

they wiped out those three legions once, but is there any more evidence of pro ambush germans?

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