Did "defeating fascism" make this a noble and just war?
World War II
No wars are noble and just
What was the alternative?
I'm not saying there were any alternatives. Defeating fascism had (and has) to be violent, often times as violent as possible, even more so than what the nazis and/or japs did. It's obviously undesirable but it had to be done. Doesn't make it noble or just.
So was this the one war anti-capitalists didn't have to be anti-war against?
Would Smedley Butler have supported WWII?
Did the American communist and socialist parties support or oppose WWII? Were they right?
Thing is, the anti-capitalists were attacked first. Stalin didn't want a war with anyone, but alas by being attacked by the nazis, the USSR had no other option than defending themselves.
From what I know, it seems at first they were against but when the USSR got involved they were for joining the war.
Putting aside your assumption that the USSR was run by anti-capitalists, what about the involve of other countries that weren't necessarily defending themselves like America?
Was fascism really defeated though? America was putting people in camps too.
How could it be when it was started by the fascist aggressors? Ending it and liberating Europe from the fascist blight was just and noble, which is what the Red Army did. The war itself was not.
Molotov-Rippentrov pact not being broken?
They were in the territories liberated by the Red Army. However, in the rest of Europe they were integrated instead.
over all yes
Did "defeating fascism" make this a noble and just war?
Did the vanquishing of the Gauls, with those that did not outright perish being hauled of as the prizes of war, make Caesar any less a noble and just son of Mars when he uttered the infamous veni, vidi, vici ?
true but that's the case for any country involved in it. no matter what.
he still thinks "they" won
defensive versus aggressive war
This is the key point. The fascists fired the first shots, directly onto home soil of every significant Allied power. You could argue that fighting for an unconditional surrender on all fronts may have been excessive, but you can't argue against WWII being noble and just, at least by the time things had degenerated far enough for the fascists to enter power.
Putting aside your assumption that the USSR was run by anti-capitalists
Tf is this?
The NEP doth protest.
? Either way, the NEP ended in 1928. The USSR was already socialist by the time WW2 started.
Class Was is not only noble and just, but also fully of glory.
idk killing Nazis seems pretty noble and just to me
The anti-capitalists were attacked first
No, because the USSR signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. This didn't benefit them in any way, it benefitted only Germany. It was a genius movement from them, as it delayed war in the USSR for as long as possible. Westerners couldn't deal with them being outplayed in diplomacy, and made the communism=nazism bullshit
a noble and just war?
Nobles are the people we line up against walls and shoot, so, in a sense, yes, I suppose.
I like the part where Mussolini was hung upside down and shot
Class War is not a literal war
the revolution is though
Yee, cause it freed the german working class and enabled them to organize again.
Also stopping the holocaust is enough of a reason in my book.
siege warfare is not a literal war
Yes, because trying to leapfrog from shoeless, assbackward feudalism straight into full communism is realistic and dialectical
What's your favourite thing about the anti-fascist crusaders fighting to save Freedom and Democracy from the fascist barbarism? Mine's this one
In April 1944, Joel Brand was summoned to the Judenkommando in Budapest to meet Eichmann, who was head of the Jewish section of the SS. Eichmann, with the approval of Himmler, charged him, with the following mission: to go to the Anglo-Americans to negotiate the sale of a million Jews. The SS asked in exchange 10,000 lorries, but were ready to bargain, as much on the nature as on the quantity of the merchandise. They proposed as well the freeing of 100,000 Jews – on the official acceptance of the agreement to show good faith. It was a serious business.
Unfortunately, if the supply existed, the demand didn't. Not only the Jews, but the SS had been taken in by the humanitarian propaganda of the allies! The allies didn't want these millions of Jews. Not for 10,000 lorries, not for 5,000, not even for none at all.
We can't enter into details about the misadventures of Joel Brand here. He left through t*rkey and languished in the English prisons of the near-east. With the allies refusing to “take the affair seriously”, doing everything to stifle and discredit him. Finally in Cairo, Joel Brand met Lord Moyne, the British minister for the near east. He entreated his to obtain, at least a written agreement for the release, which would at least save 100,000 lives:
<“And what would the final total be?”
<“Eichmann spoke of a million.”
<How can you imagine such a thing, Mister Brand. What can I do with this million Jews? Where can I put them? Who will receive them?”
< If the Earth hasn't any more room for us, there remains only for us to be exterminated." came the desperate reply from Brand.3
The SS had been slow to comprehend: they themselves believed in Western ideas! After the failure of Joel Brand's mission and in the midst of the exterminations, they tried again to sell the Jews to the Joint4, even depositing an “account” of 1,700 Jews in Switzerland. But apart from that, the matter was never brought to a conclusion.
The destruction and loss of life from World War II functioned as a massive reset button on the world economy, kicking off a massive economic boom fueled by high profitability. The military Keynesianism of the allied powers likewise provided the stability and infrastructure to facilitate this boom, while keeping demand pent-up until the war had ended.
World War II must be thanked not just for doing in the excesses of fascism, but for saving global capitalism itself, and therefore sidetracking the global class struggle with social-democratic compromise and struggles of national liberation for a generation.
Ironically this in the most literal sense. After taking down the axis the US and Nato proceeded to instantly back stab the USSR to eliminate Marxist Leninism next.
Oh yea, it’s not like ussr was weak at the begging of war, and don’t get me started about the pre-wwii army. Soviets needed time to build war machine.