Trump recognizes venezeula opposition leader as president

time.com/5510942/juan-guaido-venezuela-interim-president-trump/
happening? how soon before brazil gets involved?

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Other urls found in this thread:

reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-gold/venezuela-gold-holdings-in-bank-of-england-soar-on-deutsche-deal-sources-idUSKCN1PF1Z8
socialistworld.net/index.php/international/americas/venezuela/10089-venezuela-for-mass-mobilization-of-workers-to-build-real-socialism-and-put-an-end-to-corrupt-bureaucracy
archive.fo/9GSGj

hey look its another "muh burgers" thread.

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Whoah the people of Venezuela decided to cast off their chains and beg for freedom and hamburgers just as the US pulls out of Syria? Crazy how nature's cycles align like that!

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so i guess this is not important news in the world of anarchists and left liberals?

I can't wait for the liberal media to tell people why this will be a righteous and just war.


It's just the resident fed posting that reply so he can go post on Zig Forums about how Zig Forums is a shithole and needs to be fixed. >>>Zig Forums2796343

Be sure to remind the NY Times/WaPo liberal types "reluctantly" going along with this that they consider interference in the internal politics of another nation an act of war and those who collude with other nations to gain power to be traitors.

because it parrots the same shit pol does.

MUH BURGERS = MUH JEWS.

just depends on which board you're on.

someone is gonna say they're one in the same. I forget I have institutional power to change that through a 'ballot box' revolution. get real.

For important panleft topics like this I just go to lefty and other even larger communities

It's someone deliberately trying to shit-stir.

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Not really.

the opposition is made up of bourgeoisie and petit-bourgeoisie, these are not "people"

I had no idea the US and Brazilian governments were Venezuelan.

The opposition is engineered by the capitalist class being (very slowly) dispossessed and by burgers who need an enemy to fight. Fuck off with this liberal retardation. If you're going to criticize Maduro then do it for something actually wrong with him instead of imperialist propaganda.

Fuck you to death, tbhfam.

Chavistas were largely middle-class or skilled laborers. There's no denying that Maduro kinda screwed the pooch on this one.

It's either more bluster and sanctions or the start of intervention, probably 60/40.

The funniest thing is that Zig Forums apparently doesn't know what a sage is anymore. Redditfugees are truly cancer.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's OP given similar grammar and sentence construction, but someone who doesn't use any capital letters has been shitting up the board with nationalist takes so it could be a wandering fuckwit or adolf stalin.

Maduro may be a socdem and even counter-revolutionary but this is being driven by the big porkies and not Venezuelans. Burgerland will slap in Pinoshit 2.0 3.0 that will fuck over the proles harder than Maduro.

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You're missing the point entirely. Maduro's failings aside, any regime change instigated or endorsed by the US will not be one in favor of the Venezuelan workers either and will only subject them to a full throated neoliberal regime and possibly a bloody civil war.

no but dude
thing bad
therefor other thing good

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I'm not denying that. Maduro's administration managed to turn Bolivarism's agents against the project, though.


Assadist teen-tier understanding of politics

Maduro's problem is he not hard enough on the bourgeoisie. He wouldn't be have this problem if he nationalized everything like Fidel Castro and Maurice Bishop did.

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This. Maduro is pathetic, even Chavez was a failure, but any regime brought in by burgerstan would be ten times worse.

Not really I don't like Israel. But if you think that being an asshole to me, who has to live here and is too poor to find a good life some where else is good praxis, you're a shit human being. And nothing.

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Maduro's an incompetent embarrassment running Venezuela into the ground and Chavez wouldn't have lost a supermajority of the assembly, but anything the US brings in will be worse.

If Guaido would really be an improvement, why are local porkies and imperialist countries backing him instead of propping up Maduro for fear of something even more hostile to their interests?

If I led this country and Israels pulls us into another regime change, idc, let the bomber planes take care of them. knowing strategy, they're not likely to retaliate and hit low population areas and just big cities, only fucking themselves and urbanites up. Pol Pot 101.

Israel's not involved (and if it is it's only to give Washington plausible deniability/diplomatic cover ala Central America in the '80s), they only really care about middle eastern countries, especially those hosting Palestinian liberation groups. This intervention is all burger.

We need International Anti-Imperialist Battallions to Protect Venezuela from Brazilian Neofascists and Yankees

Unirocally

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No because this coup will fail and nothing will happen. The army supports Maduro.

It's patently obvious that Maduro rigged the election since they kept trying to jail the opposition, hence why he now has Russian bombers in his country to assist him rather than trying to do something like setting up farming coops - which is Venuzeula's *actual* problem: their price ceilings don't function because it put farmers out of business, and since Maduro didn't step in to setup coops in their place he then completely fucked up everything else by instigating a food crisis. He must fix this if he wants to remain in power, people must eat or even his own special forces will revolt in a palace coup. This is an area that Chavez didn't commit all his resources to with compared to oil and healthcare, and it's the hill Maduro will die on if he does not act. People must eat.

Militarily the US is already warded off by Russia, so a direct military intervention will only happen if it's led by Brazil or the CIA. However the former also doesn't have any money (thanks capitalism) and the latter can't fight tanks with signs or funny twitter messages (ask the Chinese citizens killed at Tienanmen Square). Even if the US is out Maduro is still weak, since he has a major conflict of interest with Russia since Russia has every reason to either take ownership of or destroy Venezuela's oil wells as they are an oil exporting nation too. Which again, he has to fix the food problems if he wants to get people off the street and the military composed enough to deal with Brazilian-led fuckery on their own.

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It'll probably lead to further isolation from international trade and frozen assets when the west recognizes a government in exile, which can only be bad for such an export-dependent country. Doubt we'll see a successful coup and if the US was gonna invade it'd get more press coverage here.

I'm really antsy to fight for vuvuzela in case of a US invasion.

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Do you have previous experience fighting? They probably won't trust an ex-solider, but VZ is hard up for engine and aviation mechanics so if you can do that they'll find a job for you somewhere. There's also little tolerance of racism in VZ's military, dunno where you're from but my parents (both Mexican) unironically use sudaca as an insult, that sort of shit will get you in big trouble down there.

Be aware that if you actually do this the US government will throw a hissy fit, label you a terrorist and more or less ban you from any western bank (also arrest you as soon as you step foot into a country that extradites to the US) so be forewarned.

No previews military experience and not really in shape to fight.
I'm colombian so getting to venezuela and being assimilated will be really easy but the point you make about getting tagged as a terrorist concerns me.

back to >>>Zig Forums schizo tankie

The exit polls disagree, produce some evidence.

Aside from other poster's point about exit polls, there's the little fact that the opposition was jailed on suspicion of involvement in attempted assassination and incitement of rebellion.
Venezuela's problem is that its economy is shortsighted petrostate flimflam vulnerable to fluctuations in global oil prices, and no administration during eras of high oil prices has ever used that money for aggressive economic diversification, rather than embezzling it or burning it on welfare. Food shortages are a meme mostly related to hoarding and smuggling by porky, Venezuela was already a net importer of food before Chavez because the Venezuelan labor force has been primarily urban for decades.
Russia's presence in Venezuela is a handful of planes, plus a few hundred consultants. Anyway, a full scale international war hasn't happened in South America for over a century, and it's certainly not going to happen now.

Ok so let's this out of the way
No the Venezuelan goverment is not socialist in any Scientific / Marxist extent and remains under a capitalist Mode of production with the PSUV being the breed of Populist-SocialDemocrats expected of Latin America

That being said that does not justify the US regime change against the Venezuelan goverment for clear Imperialist reasons


While obviously the CIA wasn't directly the cause of the protests happening once they did spring up the US and effectivly all other capitalist states on earth decided to support the counter-revolutionaries involved in the Tiananmen movement as to attempt to overthrow the CCP and Socalism in China

Maduro isnt socialist my dude. He is honestly a fuck up who only lied but never gave the population the means of production Venezuela is still 70% private property.

Maduro didnt knew how to handle the americans banning all trade with them either. And he with the means of production that Venezuela had could have done it but he is just making a Neo-bourgouise hierarchy. Maduro is really, really dumb and gives bad rep to leftists but I don't want Venezuela to eventually become another USA puppet state either but this is the most likely outcome or depends how USA changes next year…

If Trump wins again its gonna be a fucked up 3rd world indeed.

>the counter-revolutionaries involved in the Tiananmen movement as to attempt to overthrow the CCP and Socalism in China
The Tienanmen Square protesters were communist revolutionaries attempting to correct the undemocratic course of the moribund Maotist red fash regime, much as the democratic revolutions happening around the same time in Taiwan by the Tangwai Movement and South Korea by the June Democratic Uprising against their countries respective military dictatorships. What next, are you going to start up about those evil imperialist dupes in Hungary and Czechoslovakia?

Idiot.
Where in the world do you get that information from? While there might have been few Maoists amongst the protesters, they were largely outnumbered by the social liberals that made up the bunk of the protest. That's like saying #metoo or the Women's March are communist revolutionaries because a local PSL chapter marched with them.
Hungary is a contentious topic, but it is undeniable that Dubcek was largely supported by the technocratic class that support more freedoms for managers which resulted in the CSSR having the lowest wage growth out of all the Eastern Blog states, that and increasing Western influence (Western News broadcasts available on TV, etc.) caused the USSR and the GDR to intervene, while the aftermath of that was probably opposed by the majority of the population, it wasn't imperialism.

Marcyite LARPers are having some crazy erections right now

An insignificant portion of the protesters WERE Ultras / Maoists (Mao and "Maoist" were long gone by 89)
This was used as an excuse by some western leftists to support the generally counter-revolutionary insurgency
These were not ideologically socialist uprisings and did not result in revolution
Hungary leaving the Warsaw Pact (As Nagy intended to do) would have damned socialism in Hungary
Dubcek was simply a social-democrat that admitted so in later life
Gorbachev admitted that the Glasnost / Perestroika reforms were pretty much just Soviet versions of Dubceks reforms
So it's pretty easy to guess how his experiment would have ended

reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-gold/venezuela-gold-holdings-in-bank-of-england-soar-on-deutsche-deal-sources-idUSKCN1PF1Z8

gee, i wonder why venezuela doesn't have enough money for food

Yes, but net food production has collapsed due to pricing schemes. As Maduro has refused to subsidize private industry, setup coops with them or outright nationalize production he now has a food crisis as farmers suspend operations and bail. Which to my original point: Maduro must solve this problem if he wants to remain in power.


Those planes are more than enough to prevent the US from using it's most effective options (airspace closure and airstrikes), at least not without an air battle first.

Cuerda de maricos come mierda, vengase pa esta mierda cuerda de coños de su madre gringos de mierda ojalá los tuviera en frente para partirles culo irl no hace falta que se los parta ideologicamente porque el marxismo nació muerto esa vaina solo sirvió para perpetuar el capitalismo por siempre cuerda de coños de su madre hijos de puta Venezuela va a ser la putica de trump y eso me gusta coños de su madre hijos de puta malparidos mariquitos sifrinos de mierda

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I can't wait for the conservative media to start spinning this war, and alt right douchebags to get on Zig Forums pretend to be a tankie then blame a war on everybody but muh Trump conservatives.

It's pretty obvious that when America started pulling out of Syria that the American war machine wasn't about to go hungry. Trump and his merry band of Dick Cheney neocons have been talking about boots on the ground in Iran and Venezuela since 2016. That's literally the conservative plan.

Test

Wut?

They are jailing the opposition because they refuse to participate in the elections and instead have been beating the drums for a coup as well as lynching black people + killing leftists in the streets.

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ok in seriousness the opposition has more or less been out in the streets throwing a hissy fit because people aren't eating, which is also why food shipments now have to be kept under armed guard (at least in certain areas). Both are indicative that Maduro has seriously, honestly, fucked up and he must feed the people. He can do this, if you recall Assad was in the exact same position (literally the exact same position - food shortage causing mass riots leading to protesters getting killed the America getting butthurt) but scraped it out because the US cheaped out while Russian air support rolled in. Maduro's already got Russia in his backyard, all he has to do now is unfuck the food crisis. It's the only thing preventing him from ruling now.

And conveniently, Maduro isn't even the target of Bolton's ire; Cuba is. Maudro is just going to be used as a pretext for American intervention there, Bolton has no problems blaming them for "hacking" Maduro and Chavez into office (or some other bs) and then moving in for an airspace closure + ground invasion based upon some spurious chemical weapons claim. Expect them to trot that out against Maduro too in the coming weeks, it's their go-to way of silencing domestic dissent against war.

You are taking the truth and flipping it on its head. The opposition is angry about weak private property rights + government policies which hurt their bottom line. They do not give a flying fuck about the starving poor and working class. Products are being put under armed guard but by corporations who are withholding basic products in "protest" of the government. Venezuela's economy is largely privately owned so there's not much he can do considering he is a ultra version of a sucdem. He's too much of a coward to face the bourgeoisie the way that is necessary to stop this free fall.

Isn't that exact sort of behavior from the oil industry in the 2003 lockout what forced Chavez to purge their entire executive and managerial staff?

Totally legit recognised President of Venezuela gives US navy permission to use Venezuelan ports to "Deliver urgent humanitarian Aid"

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Okay, let's assume he grows balls and tries a collectivisation. What do you think would happen? There was certainly a time during the better days of the Chavez era where they could have done this, and they missed the opportunity, but as of now, doing a full-scale collectivisation would be like writing your suicide note.

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Seems like he's serious about it. If he really tries being acting president this might actually indeed cause a civil war. What would be funny if this turns out to be stillborn with nobody carrying out his orders. That would be an embarrassment not only for the Trump administration but for the whole "international community".

That's pretty much what's already happened
The army and the Supreme Court (Not the one based in Miami the legit Venezuelan one) Still support Maduro's presidency and the opposition is still to fractured within the legislature t remove him from power

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the Spanish Republicans were mostly bitches. put lipstick on those frogs. then they'll be French.

Sometimes, I almost forget every single stereotype about porky is absolutely true, then one of them acts like a living caricature again.

Day of the meathook when?

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I'm not saying he should I'm saying he should have. The country is at the center of attention now and that would obviously be an invitation for the United States military at this point.

Get out of here with your micronation larping, kekalonia is objectively bourgeois in its current state.

There's always Russia to seek asylum.

American capitalists are so sure of their own hegemony that they can outright admit that they're toppling a democratic government for oil wealth and not face any consequences.

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Now that it seems this attempted coup is coming to nothing the right is starting to disown Guaidó because his party calls itself socdem lol.

Something from Venezuelan socialists I agree with
socialistworld.net/index.php/international/americas/venezuela/10089-venezuela-for-mass-mobilization-of-workers-to-build-real-socialism-and-put-an-end-to-corrupt-bureaucracy

The DSA was and UK labor is in an international with that party btw.

They are, but their party ideology is far more on the Third Way end of the spectrum. Their ideology is to the right of today's Labour, far more akin to Blairite Labour tendencies.

I guess, my point was that Labor and DSA have some shit tendencies and aren't our guys so to speak.

I continue to be surprised at how loyal the Venezuelan military is to its left-ish progressive government. The military is usually the first thing to turn right and stab in the back.

I've read some shit that claims the military has been well treated compared to other social democratic states in latin america. Guess even if the pink wave didn't learn that socdem a shit at least they learned how to avoid a military led coup.

Remember Chavez was nominally /theirguy/ originally, and only got voted in years after being pardoned for an earlier attempt at a military coup.

archive.fo/9GSGj

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lmao the "Socialist" International is a fucking joke, the neoliberal SPD is in it, Sisi's party from Egypt, or the Romanian SocDem party which is crypto-fascist.