Modern Nuclear War

Making this thread because of Trumps announcement that the United States is going to begin the process of withdrawing from the 1987 Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces treaty. This is less a discussion of fear mongering that we're all going to die, and more about a few other points, mainly.

What should replace this treaty? I think internationally binding agreements can be useful, for peace, and while 'peace' might be a loose term for the internal moral struggle we are all with it is still better [if only slightly] than the threat of Nuclear Armageddon. More accurately though, is that the wording of the President makes it seem as though he is open to the idea of replacing a 30 year old treaty with a new one, that better reflects modern missile technology.

Baring that, and that nuclear re-armament occurs, what type of missiles are we likely to see inplaced into America's military bases inside of the European Union? How will society at large adjust to the shifting idea of a return to a warmer Cold War, as nuclear missiles move and shift and production returns to the levels we had seen between the 50's and 70's? (Which is not a likely event, but is a possibility) Do you believe we will see modern films in the vein of Threads and The Day After? Personally, I think the return of anti-nuclear movies and film [as compromised by Jewish influence as the film industry is. 'comprised' even being the wrong term, seeing as it is almost entirely constructed around their influence] would be interesting to see. The idea of showing a modern world, with advanced communication technology falling apart in the years, months, days, and minutes before Nuclear fire burned out Major cities would be interesting. I think also, having films showing modern Americans what they world would possible be like, after Nuclear war, and having it focused on people in the middle of the country, or far from the area's worst impacted by a nuclear attack would be an interesting fictionalization.

What though, do you think will be the larger, non-reactionary element of this choice? I know it will slip out of the news cycle, but Nuclear Disarmament and Non-proliferation is a large issue in the political system for me. I think a better treaty can be established, that allows fair terms for both the United States, and our brothers in Russia. What do you think are the chances that this is the first steps to a new, modern Nuclear War? In the next 5, 10, and 20 years, how do you think withdrawl from this might affect the world, mainly the relationship between Europe, the US, and Russia?

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Other urls found in this thread:

voltairenet.org/article203462.html
voltairenet.org/article203566.html
armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1205006/russias-nuclear-powered-cruise-missile/
lewrockwell.com/2018/07/donald-w-miller-jr-md/the-day-us-military-supremacy-ended/
8ch.net/k/res/611697.html
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bomber_will_always_get_through
zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-18/putin-announces-new-hypersonic-weapon-will-be-deployed-months
zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-08/china-just-tested-hypersonic-missile-us-cant-defend-against
youtube.com/watch?v=FyUTNRIuAqc
twitter.com/AnonBabble

This will be my only bump. I understand it is a long post, and not very headline catchy, but I think this is something fun to discuss and would like other peoples feelings on the matter.

You ask too many questions to make a thread, and you're all over the place.
The movie's depiction was utterly wrong. It was a far left Hollywood propaganda piece.
On a thread quality note, you contradicted yourself: saying not a thread about we're all going to die, and inviting comments on a "we're all going to die" movie.
We are backing out of the intermediate ballistic missile treaty because neither the US or Russia follows it (we violated it first) and China never signed it.
China having such missiles and we don't officially means we're at a half day disadvantage, and half a day in a nuclear war can be forever.

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Thanks! I just woke up, and am crippled by the Eternal specter of ADD, so my thought process tends to be all over the place until I've had a chance to collect my thoughts and center myself. If I make threads in the future I'll post more concise threads with a more focused concept.


Ok.

d

The treaties stop us from keeping our systems fully up to date. We have so much old shit that we don't even know if it will turn on an we have to use massive numbers of them. You should always be allowed to develop newer nukes if it means phasing out the older more dangerous crap. I swear they're still using bone saws and post and tube wiring.
Everyone that signed onto the treaties should be on board with modernizing if nothing else just for personal safety.

The withdrawal is less about Russia or any other known nuclear power; and far more about Dimona

Slow down next time OP. Consider the magic of bullet lists. But to answer your primary question- why is this a big deal.

The IBM Treaty makes "Theater" strategic nuclear weapons as a no-no. These are the ones that have less than 5 minutes of warning time from launch to detonation (if they aren't in a depressed trajectory anyway). The fear from NATO (rightly so by the way) is that Russia will put a few hundred of these (the newest version is called 9K720 Iskander) in the Kaliningrad Oblast. That means that the entire continent of Europe could- theoretically- be wiped preemptively before any response could be formed.

There is a "carry time" that is built into the calculus of nuclear war. It is what gives the "launch on" warning system we have today. I detect that you are nuking me, I launch my nukes- we all die together. With the abandonment of this treaty it could theoretically be that the first warning that NATO and the US would have is cities being glassed. No "carry time" to work with.

So long story short this ratchets up the chances of a miscalculation, misinterpretation of data, and "incorrect" response (i.e. oops just started WW3 because of a seagull).

Most nukes will be used for attacking silos.

I wish I own a few million acres so I could blow up a nuke. That'd make a hell of a show on a holiday or other celebration.

i want one. or a couple. just one though would be enough

Is this jew york times copypasta? Because Russia never followed this gay treaty, and the chinks were never part of it.

(Heil'd)
Usually one is enough to make a statement.


Jesus christ. Do you have any clue of how the Cold War actually worked and how close you got to being born with a third-eye if at all

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Well from what we've seen released by the US government the main focus seems to be on updating delivery vehicles (B21 Raider, Columbia class SSBN, and Boeing and Northrop Grumman's Ground Based Strategic Deterrent) to maintain the nuclear triad. This generally pointed to business as usual being the plan for American deterrence.

However the 1987 Treaty banned the use of ground launched cruise missilesranges of 500–1,000 kilometers (310–620 mi) (short-range) and 1,000–5,500 km (620–3,420 mi) (intermediate-range), notably excluding air and sea launched missiles. This suggests a possible reappearance in the technology, which with hypersonic missiles reaching maturity is a worrying prospect, as non-hardened launch systems give a massive incentive to strike first as these systems are unlikely to survive an opposing first strike.

Given all the cash invested in modernizing the B60 air dropped gravity bomb it seems reasonable that they'll remain the main US nuclear weapon in Europe with the F35 being the chosen delivery platform when the bugs are worked out in the 2020s. However, hypersonic cruise missiles could be an additional part of deterrence if rumors of stealth's demise are not exaggerated.

Given the Reliable Replacement Warhead program I'm thinking the Americans will likely use some standardized low maintenance variable yield warhead in their updated nuclear triad.

TL;DR: hypersonic ground launched missiles, the predecessors of which were highly destabilizing potentially coming to a NATO base near you

So not believing jew propaganda for drooling boomers makes me the dumb one?

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This is the kind of well informed posts that I remember Zig Forums for. Thank you for the reasonable, and educated responses, and taking the time to answer with more than a 'Youre' dumb and this is dumb.' Having feed back on how to have better posts, and giving good information like this. Well done.

Russia visibly broke this treaty a decade ago, you dipshit. Anyone claiming Bad Orange Man "ratchets up the chances of a miscalculation" is a jewish brainlet

Almost makes it seem like a preemptive strike is feasible and necessary on both sides what a fun day that'll be.


(((They))) are purposely dropping discussion quality down, it is a tired and true tactic that is frankly tiresome but to be expected. When you are over the target is when you get flak and they know how disastrous the expression of concepts and ideas on this board particularly is to their agenda. Expect it to only get worse. Filter and move on.

Let her rip

voltairenet.org/article203462.html


voltairenet.org/article203566.html

“The probability of destroying an airplane carrier with these two types of hyper sonic missile, piercing the AA defense is 88%. This means that, if 100 hypersonic missiles are launched, 88 will pierce the AA defences and destroy their targets.

Applying the math to the specific case of the United States: if 11 Russian hypersonic missiles are launched against the 11 existing US airplane carriers, only 1.3 missiles would fail to reach their targets.”

My conclusions from this were as follows:
• if the US attacked South Russia (the coast of the Black Sea), Russian hypersonic missiles could destroy a US naval group at Gibraltar.
• if the US attacks the North and West of Russia (the Baltic Sea and the Arctic Ocean), the Russian hypersonic missiles could destroy a US naval group in East Greenland. Of course, these are purely theoretical calculations that could be excluded by the specific conditions in which war was actually conducted.

armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1205006/russias-nuclear-powered-cruise-missile/

And then there's that nuclear powered cruise missile with a reactor power source smaller than a shoe box that can basically fly around for days, weeks, maybe years if need be at treetop level winding through mountain valleys waiting to hit it's target.

A similar drone sub powered by the same power plant packing a 100 megaton nuke (twice the size of the largest nuke ever) could be detonated at 3000 ft depth in the Atlantic or Pacific, generating a 1500ft tidal wave.

lewrockwell.com/2018/07/donald-w-miller-jr-md/the-day-us-military-supremacy-ended/
These weapons systems also render aircraft carriers and submarines obsolete. One is a drone, in this case a nuclear-powered underwater drone. It can travel 100 mph and descend to a depth of 3,000 feet. Its nuclear power unit is 100 times smaller than the ones that power submarines. This 75-foot-long submerged drone can carry a 100-megaton thermonuclear cobalt warhead, one that is 5,000 times more powerful than the atom bombs the U.S. dropped on Japan. Detonated off the coasts of North America it would create a tsunami wave 1,500 feet tall washing over cities on the east and west coasts. The drone also comes in a form carrying a conventional warhead for use as an anti-aircraft carrier weapon

There is some reason Putin asked for the blessing of the Western Pope in accordance with the prophecy of Fatima.

He then not only 3 days ago announced that Russians would go to Heaven as martyrs while Westerners would go to Hell.
I'm in general agreement with that statement.

I'll continue to pray that this motherfucker cranks the dial to 11 and we can get RaHoWa.

The prophecy of Fatima specifically refers to the great sufferings of the Russian Christians, their immense martyrdom, and that through the intercession of the Virgin Mary that Russia would play the central role in the salvation of all mankind.

The Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by a specific act of a Pope along with all the other Catholic bishops of the world was allegedly ordered in an apparition by Our Lady of Fátima in 1917. The Carmelite nun Sister Lúcia, one of the three visionaries of the apparitions, stated that at different times the Virgin Mary had given her messages that emphasized praying the Rosary, and that she had made a number of prophecies and promises, one of these being that the consecration of Russia would usher in a period of world peace. Sister Lúcia declared in writing during the 1980s that the consecration performed by Pope John Paul II in St. Peter's Square, in the Vatican City, on March 25, 1984 had been properly accomplished and was accepted in Heaven.[1]

In addition to the Consecration of Russia, Pope Pius XII (1942), Pope John Paul II (1984), Pope Benedict XVI (2010) and Pope Francis (2013) have consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart, with Pius XII also specifically consecrating "the peoples of Russia" in 1952, sometimes worded as "acts of entrustment".

Absolutly Islamic

Make a detour by Zig Forums latest F-35 thread first, there is actual sauce leaked .pdf towards the end to back everything said in it.
8ch.net/k/res/611697.html

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heil'd

See you in Valhalla brother

Dude gave a speech in class last week about the f-35 and why he thinks they all got grounded. Part of an elaborate Russo-chinky plot to ground the air fleet
He has actual autism and he made sense

Disgusting waste of digits. Reported.

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Provide sources and news articles next time. This is a good topic, but a good OP on this board requires sources/news articles/etc. Sage because this is a badly done OP, let this thread die and remake this thread in a few days with some more sources for us to discuss the topic at hand.


Don't be *that* autistic about that.

It's not though. It's just embezzlement and retarded decisions piling up one on top of the other.

Why would anyone want to use a nuke at short range?

Nukes dont exist. Boogeyman they made up to enslave the population, give up their rights for freedom from MAD/nuclear holocaust and other nonsense. They literally trained kids to hide under desks, yet nukes are supposed to destroy everything (except trees, concrete buildings, etc).

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Your brain doesn't exist

The only footage of nukes going off are all fake and admitted fake by government.

[citation needed]

Still waiting for proof.

way back in the 1930's, before the dawn of the era of nuclear apocalypse, a British Prime Minister presciently stated "the bomber will always get through", which became justification to re-orient the strategic capabilities of the entire military away from defense to focus on overwhelming offensive capability.

in the big picture, after 2 great wars which slaightered more humans than could ever be concieved before in history, and after the game theory of war tilted towards inescapable escalation towards total mutual anihilation, you can see this run away arms race driven by technologic competition has never really ended. worse, no one man nor group of men can stop it. you might as well try to uninvent fire or the wheel or gunpowder.

humanity will end itself by destroying itself, and that's just the way things are going to be. embrace that shit. don't think of it as the end of the world and the death of everything you know. think of it as the birth of a new world, and a new frontier of limitless possibility and imagination.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bomber_will_always_get_through

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here's what Trump should do to turn a shitty hand into the deal of the century. first, he needs to shitcan whatever stupid
suicidal damn fool ideas John Bolton and other (((neocons))) are slithering into his ear.

you see lemons, i see lemonade. this is the perfect opportunity to do what Crooked Hillary failed to do and achieve a true reset with Russia.

the necons must be purged of their insane rejection of Russia's right to exist. they must also be brought to heel and kiss the ring to accept that Putin is the rightful leader of Russia and that nobody has to the right to keep assaulting Putin's authority except for the people of Russia, if they so choose another leader.

let it go neocon scum. you lost everything, forever. pack it up and go home. because America is going to need Russia's help in the decades ahead. whether America and Russia will still exist in 100 years from now depends on what we do right now to make peace and work together to support each other.

in case you haven't noticed, by 2050 there will be 800 million new souls born in MENA. are they all going to migrate into Europe?

America can no longer afford to be the sole protector of Europe. someday soon, interest rates will return to above 3% and then our economy is dead and the Federal Reserve is dead and Bretton Woods is dead and the USD status as the world's reserve currency is dead. at that moment, it will no longer be a question of whether America has the will to protect Europe. we won't be able to physically do it even if you and who's army wanted to.

NATO is already a dead ghost walking like the 6th Sense, only they don't know. NATO is a relic of a lost war, of a world that is long gone, it is horse cavalry in the era of tank blitzkreig warfare. let it go.

invite Russia into NATO. it makes no sense for white Christian countries with a common European heritage to continue wasting their resources fighting each other, and for America to defend land across an ocean, when the mighty Russian army could more easily defend it's backyard of Europe.

i have never feared that Russia would nuke us. you'll think i am nuts, but i feel protected by Putin's new categories of nuclear missiles. yes, Russia is now also defending America with it's marvelous technological break through nuclear missiles. because it means little no good shits like Israel or Saudi or Iran or Pak or China would ever nuke America, because we have a new pact with Russia.

i read a long and fantastic essay on the Russian website Katehon which argues that Putin sees himself as "the Last Prelate of Byzantium"–technically, Putin is the Last Roman Emperor because the job fell on him to defend and Preserve what is left of Old Christian Roman Europe . i agreed with the argument and conclusions of the essay.

we can work with Putin. he is obviously one of the greatest geniuses of statesmen in history. why wouldn't you want him on your side?

i say we shank the Saudis and the Israelis, and become best friends with Putin. i trust Russians a helluva lot more than i trust Muzz and kikes. why are we killing ourselves by picking the worst allies who constantly stab us in the back?

as for the billion new niggers and dunecoons in MENA, that is the real long term strategic threat we need to partner with Russia in NATO to solve.

if just 1% of those 800+ million new births join ISIS, then the West is fucked and so is Russia. an ISIS with 8,000,000 soldiers is not a war we can win between 2025-2050. we would have to build concetration camps and start gassing ISIS on a scale that would make what Hitler didn't do but should have look like a kindergarten field trip by comparison.

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Discussing nukes without discussing that rogue nuclear power in the Midde East strikes me as pointless.

I grew up in the #2 target for Soviet ICBMs (refinery complex) so since the '60s this was a formative topic that haunted my childhood and teens and even factored into various major life decisions. "Threads" struck me as the most thoughtful and measured of the dystopian genre responses; the rest were obvious jewish propaganda designed to inject fear, helplessness and hopelessness into the goyim.

I also lived not far from where NUMEC was enriching uranium…a mess of which apparently was given over to the Israelis. This wsa common knowledge in the 1970s, covered in outlets like Rolling Stone and the NYT.

I wonder sometimes whether the Uranium One deal wasn't designed to make sure other Middle Eastern nations didn''t have a check and balance nuke tech for Greater Israel's. I know we're supposed to hate the Saudis, but learning about the lengths to which Israel has gone to get Americans to fight and pay for their territorial aspirations and wars ended that kneejerk programming for me (around 1985).

I have no idea what to suggest re: policy. I used to have all sorts of informed opinions and ideas and responses to such a question. Since the September 11 attacks all I know for sure is that our government was taken over by traitors and neocons and we have no idea what the truth is anymore. I hope Team Trump is working with a better set of data…though I'm not at all encouraged by how much he panders to Israel.

EVERYBODY GETS NUCLEAR WEAPONS
FREE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AS A HUMAN RIGHT
F R E E N U C L E A R W E A P O N S
F R E E N U K E S

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No one picked up on the Dimona reference?

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Good post

I know it's comfy cozy in my guts and I see you've taken up residence in a cyst in my liver where you're raising your extensive lovely family but I find that this is causing me some inconvenience and I was wondering if you could be so kind as to vacate the premises with your family? I'm sure you'll be reasonable and considerate in this matter.
Thanks

>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bomber_will_always_get_through


Excellent article. Thanks

You're a fucking idiot.

Thanks to Citizens United the military industrial complex owns all our elected reps.

It doesn't work that way. Submerged nuclear explosions just make glorified bubbles.

Nukes are disabled somehow or never existed in the first place. Elites would never allow such instability to occur. If you think otherwise you are a brainlet. Duck and cover drills of the 60s were a scare tactic to force compliance. Cold war never really happened like u think it do

Also, nukes may have been a propaganda mission from the start to discourage major wars. Psychological weapons, propaganda, and disinformation are by far the most powerful weapons

There is no treaty, there never was a treaty and there never will be a treaty. It's just a bunch of ultra rich megalomaniacs pointing weapons at each other, and no amount of paperwork, laws or threats can prevent anyone of them to use the weapons if they want to. Also the combinations of science and common sense tells us that if something exists it will find use. It's just a matter of time. So with all that in mind…how about we all forget about those weapons and ignore their obvious fearmongering, because nobody can stop what is already predestined.

Counter point to your

You produce your own semen, and yet it will never be used to inseminate a woman. Use of a thing, does not equate to destructive use of a thing, or meaningful use of a thing.

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Unfortunatly, there is far worst that those little toys..
An example, bacteriological weapons could destroy an entire continent in just few days.

"meaningful" … what about the euphoria of ejaculation


thats enough meaning for me by pure observation of my current state of living. But this is such a retarded argument you are making. Its not like there arent 1000s of fags out there that will never have kids but will still fuck and orgasam. Its an ability we are all born with. How many people have a brain but dont use it?

thats a retarded statement too. "science and common sense". Is this a proof or is this the ramblings of professional pusedo scientist. Im not sure what this combination tells me , but I do know what it proves and doesnt prove. How about you stick to that retard.


You two can now stfu because this isnt reddit, dont bring your retarded one ups manship here.

Major General Jack Weinstein is a Dual Citizen of Israel and the US, and he is in charge of US Nuclear Command.


Samson Looms.

Ashes and Echoes

Then we need to find one and attack Israel with it so that the kikes launch Samson!

Burn the world, purge the unclean filth and leave only mechanical perfection of a barren world! Aerys Targaryen did nothing wrong.

And (((Who))) runs that MIC, user?

Pity. You assume there is a Valhalla to go to, and that the gods are not just evil liars who trapped us here to torture us. You know nothing of the horrid reality.


You. Hope. Too. Much.

Why would anything like that happen when it could just get worse?

hypersonic missiles are the next phase.
They don't need warheads.
This will lead to a new mutually assured destruction phase. However if one is clever they can have their enemy destroyed while being unharmed. This is done through a proxy state. Your proxy gets into a shoot out with your enemy, your enemy and your proxy are destroyed.

zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-18/putin-announces-new-hypersonic-weapon-will-be-deployed-months
zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-08/china-just-tested-hypersonic-missile-us-cant-defend-against

youtube.com/watch?v=FyUTNRIuAqc

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Kinetic bombardment and railguns will change the game

Islam, christcuckery. It's all the same semitic poison.

You also hope too much. Horrors upon horrors, user. You're not going far enough.

Was it sent back signed and notarized?

Chomp

Fearmongering thread.

Very important to maintain the little scum in place with total annihilation threats.


Yeah they can be useful to establish more covert operations because every side cheats. Very useful for expanding the glowing budgets worldwide. Literally no one else believes this crap except naive whiteys.

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Which of thosw two is Steve Bannon?

A nuclear war would be refreshing tbh.

nukes aint real

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Russia wouldn't do that because glassing Europe would cause so much fallout that it would likely drift over to their own land.