Secessionism is always better than non-secession. Fusion of nations is immoral.
In my uneducated opinion, all who can't let small parts of nations secede are socialist & authoritarian coercive shitters. Taking a part of your demographic as a prisoner is immoral and inhumane, and there is no reason to do this except for taxpayer farming for corrupt politicians. And people of the smaller demographic that don't agree to secession are Stockholm Syndrome patients.
What if they are closely related ethnically and culturally, like hitlers reich?
Hitler was a coercive authoritarian socialist.
Neighbor nations with ethnic similarity should have no problem working together, and peacefully competing.
As punishment for their crimes and cowardice, and in recognition of the culturally and historically distinct regions in question, I propose the following; Plebescites be held for independence in each county of the following cucked states; France, Britain, Belgium, Denmark, Neatherlands, Germany, Sweden, Norway, and Ireland. Secessionists in Spain will NOT recieve independence due to their marxist sympathies. All marxists will be shot. Poland will be allowed to annex the Slavic regions in Germany as a reward for not being a nation populated by utter faggots and moral cowards. Plebescites will be held in all regions of the former Yugoslavia for independence or union with their respective home nations like Serbia and Croatia. Plebescites will also be held in Hungarian settled regions in Slovakia, Romania, and Serbia on whether to join with Hungary. Western Turkey will be annexed to Greece as reward for being less cucked than the UK and France. Russia must return stolen clay to Finland as punishment for collaboration with the kikes for the last hundred years. However, in recognition of the higher than average nationalism of Russians in general, no further territorial losses will be inflicted upon Russia. In addition, the Russian land in Ukrain will be annexed into Russia. Moldova will be annexed to Romania as it's not a real country and they're Romanian anyway. And former Prussia will be returned to Germany or made independent. Some smaller territorial exchanges will also take place. IsraHell will be given to Hezbullah for total cleansing and all jews in Europe will be executed for their crimes against humanity.
Morally speaking: only 30% yes on secession vote should constitute secession., only 80% vote on fusion should constitute fusion.
THIS IS A PAID JEWISH SHILL THREAD.
Why is Europe such a cultural and ethnic shitshow?
You really are braindead aren't you Counter sage Why can't we talk about the merits of secessionism? What do you want? Another Trump thread?
What Jewish narrative you fucking retard? The global government, one world order is the jewish narrative. This is opposite. You are the one with no argument.
Paid jewish shill confirmed. We will not be balkanizing.
One major issue I see with seccessionism is the lack of any real incentive. Sure, you can be moral and try to explain it as much as you want, but the end goal of every power is Empire, spreading one's culture and ways. Additionally, it would mean that there would be many small regional nations without any cohesive military. The only way I see it working if nations created pacts of oath to defend eachother in the case of a subversive outsider, or an attacking force, but good luck getting that to happen. The biggest problem would be in Georgia, since it would be a place ripe for taking by the Islamic nations to the south and Russia to the north, and any real European defensive council would be difficult to implement, and even perhaps undesirable, since it would basically be a European UN 2.0.
Now, I do have my biases, being a monarchist (inb4 fuck off back to /monarchy/), but even looking past my desires to a future with co-operative Empires, I just can't see this happening, since no nation would stand up for a small duchy-sized country, and quite the contrary, it would be quite the incentive for firing up brother wars anew since easy land-grabs would be literally everywhere. It would also probably decrease the military power of Europe as a whole, since many small, hard to budget nations with selective sources of income would be much harder to manage than an empire with a good source of income from various resources/industries that span its entire realm, and thus there's more space for co-operation and advancements.
balkanization is shitty. taking sovereignty away from a group of closely related people is even more shitty. what we need is an agreement between people. you have your nation, I have mine. come visit when you want, and I'll visit you equally. buy things from me and I'll buy from you. if my nation becomes weak, it's the related cultures' responsibility to take control of my nation and set it straight, or if it's beyond saving, annihilate it, as I would do for them. centralization of control by a party unrelated to the party they control is the only immoral thing. separate nations competing in an uncontrollably productive manner are what the kikes truly fear
It should be common practice to sign a pact of funding a common army, in addition to your local army. Funded by 50%-70% of the army budget of the 2 seceded nations. Ensure no tariffs and certain trading standards between them etc.. High IQ nations could easily do this.
This. Imagine how productive white nations would become, and increasingly much less risk of destructive subversion. I always get so happy imagining this.
You're getting Transylvania back over my dead fucking body you fucking Hun.
I don't know, It seems kind of archaic, in a bad way I mean. I'm a burger so I wouldn't know, do people from northern France seriously self-identify as "Norman," "Briton"…etc as opposed to just French?
Because we're awesome with real history.
You mention that lots of smaller ethnostates would lead to lots of wars over land. But large empires are probably even more prone to this. The state must be absolutely based on the people who live there. Multi-ethnic states are unnatural and can only be held together by force unless the different ethnic groups are similar enough to cohabitate the land peacefully. The solution to easy land grabbing is simple; If one nation declares a brother-war, all others must join together to put them down. No more brother wars.
All disputed territories should become independent from both. Just like the 3rd option of Ulster nationalism for N-Ireland back in the day.
Even if they don't fully do this, they would be better off gaining more autonomy from zionists like Macron and socialist rats.
Yes you're absolutely right.
They were always like this, the 'no brothers wars' is just a meme, europeans always disliked each other and fought each other for legit reasons or not.
Over both my and the Hungarians fucking graves. Eastern Europe's relationship ain't like the relationship between the fucking American states. If there's one thing we hate more than one another it's the rest of the world trying to step into our fights.
No. Harghita and Covasna are absolutely and undeniably Hungarian. They should join with Hungary.
Oh sure. Romanians weren't complaining when the Entente stole the land from Hungary and awarded it to Romania after they backstabbed Hungary and the Central Powers. Then they ethnically cleansed the place of Germans and Hungarians. Yet you leave the fucking gypsies to destroy perfectly good villages and replace them with ghettos? Get your priorities straight.
I didn't hear you complaining when Hitler threw fucking darts at the map to decide who gets what of Transylvania you little shit heel. Not to mention we paid your asses to pack your shit and fuck off.
But really, this just proves the point the OP is a retard that doesn't understand the history between our nations.
Oh please, at the time Transylvania was majority Hungarian. Hitler's arbitration was actually very fair and even handed. And you Romanians would have gained much more land if you had not failed to defend the flanks around Stalingrad. But I agree in part that there should not be an independent state or Transylvania. That's just silly.
Come on son, I thought we agreed not to go under the belt.
Chose one OP
That's awfully Jewish of you. Your Treaty of Versailles for all of Europe is shit, and so are you.
My decisions are based solely on the current state of European nations. Those with populations that are hate-crazed, anti-White freaks ought to be punished for their moral weakness. Those whose populations are by en large proud and nationalistic ought to be rewarded for their moral strength. And honestly, I'm not taking from Germany much. Just the one region that is Slavic. Also, I don't see you complaining about my far more harsh treatment of France and the UK. I wonder why this is?
My apologies. That was very rude of me. You Romanians did your best and for that your ancestors are proud.
Also, my plan would allow Alsace Lorraine and that Belgian territory stolen from Germany to reunite with Germany along with East-Prussia. These territorial gains would more than offset any loss from Lusatia. The loss of Lusatia to Poland is more symbolic than economically damaging. It is intended to serve as a physical reminder not to support treachery and White Genocide for future generations. Also, it's Slavic Clay.
Gee, I wonder who made this map. Reminder that there's no such thing the reindeer nigger homeland of "Sápmi", and there never has been, and at best they're falsely claiming what used to be called Kvenland, and even that may not have existed but just been a trade region.Reminder that Turkey is a name only invaders and collaborators use.
dumb map and dumb thread
Which Danish or Irish seccessionists are going to be given freedom? That makes absolutely no sense.
Who is "we" faggot? Why do Amerimutts have any claim to European countries? You "people" ruin them just as much as Shlomo and Jamal.
Possibly the Schleswig Holstein province, if they choose secession. Personally, I doubt they would and if they did, they'd probably elect to rejoin Germany. As for Ireland, none. Again, all my choices are based upon an unbiased analysis of national spirit and resistance to liberalism. Those nations whose populations have become infected with this jewish disease get potentially destructive plebiscites. However, the chance of freedom is denied to those populations that have embraced Marxism into their national character. This is also to serve as a physical reminder never to betray your people. Hence why Wales gets a plebiscite but Navarre does not. Also, I forgot to mention that Estonia and Latvia each get their stolen land back to serve as a physical lesson for the Russians not to become censorious cowards ever again.
Lastly, I want to point out that ALL of my decisions are based on ethnic groups on the ground with the desire to unite them with their fatherlands.
Perhaps much needed unfortunately…
Can live with that
Switzerland of equal non-interest into each others affairs could be a model. They destroyed it the last 40 years by moving up the federal level for all shit, but in fact you can have multi-ethnic states, but only with two things at work: 1. no movement. All hate each others guts and stay the fuck in their valleys - no problem (and by inference, no big cities) 2. the federal level is weak and the army only deployed abroad or to help in case of emergencies. No special social programs except universal, automatic stuff like pay-in-get-out pension funds without interests.
Dumb, we don't need any more border changes in Europe.
Yes. Switzerland is one of those few notable exceptions to the rule. even so, they actually experiences several civil wars throughout their history that fell along ethnic lines in every case. I would judge that their cultures are similar enough that they can get along, being mountain people. And as you point out, each group keeps to their own valleys and doesn't trample upon each other or stick their noses in each other's business as the liberals are obsessed with doing. A very conservative country Switzerland.
Seems to me like you've been playing too much CK2 to want to revert the map to medieval times. Such a thing wouldn't fly today, such was the reason why nations and nationalism were formed, a nation is comprised of several states, the difference here is the degree of centralism or autonomy the states have. Such is an example of the United States of America, where by your notion it wouldn't be divided only north/south, but by several smaller states that would in turn be much weaker than it is wholly as a nation.
A great historical example of this was the HRE, where several reasonably independent kingdoms integrated a major empire, taking turns in control to keep the balance of power. Of course it wasn't perfect, the emperor seat had too much power, and they had the tendency to keep switching power between the major favored kingdoms, but still it was a entity to be reckoned with, something that brought much more prosperity and relevance to the region that would have struggling alone.
Another great example of this somewhat is the power of the papacy and catholic nations in middle ages as well, it served somewhat as a transnational bloc, where all the christian nations played by the same rules, traded together and had similar customs. Still being independent and internally fighting one another, together as whole it was vital to fight off the islamic invasion, such as the reconquista of the iberian peninsula. The problems were still the same, whoever had a control of the seat held too much power, which eventually led to the corruption and fall of the system.
Take for yet another example, what happened in the beginning of WW2, with Poland and a lot of those smaller eastern European countries, since they were independent but much weaker, a lot of them were just gobbled over by Nazi Germany of Commie Russia, literally dividing Poland in half for grabs.
I would go so far to say that even the Euro bloc we have today would be a example of that, and it would a solid strong bloc against the rest of the world if it were not the hidden globalist agenda and islamic immigrant accommodation.
Nice try Anglo, we love our queen!
What's the point? It's like CA. The people who ruined CA would move to Nu-CA and ruin it like they did to states like TX.
The principal of the map isn't Secessionism = good. If it were, northern Ireland would be it's own thing. There is no consistency.
Oh right I get you. I was just stating that Ulster nationalism isn't really a thing as Catalan or Bavarian seccessionism.
who cares what they want? ROI is a marxist, terrorist state and there will always be unionists in NI
yes goy lets be weaker and open to outside invasions, dont love european culture?
It would depend on the culture and ethnicity. Some people are simply bred to hate each other. But OP is looking more at a voluntary self-segregation it would seem. The Anschluss occurred because of homogenity. That's just making a larger blob of Germanic peoples.
Hail Exactly this. Everyone would have to revert to tribalism for this to occur.
What a mess.
what a (((democracy))) right?
Calm down, Satan. Europe was divided into hundreds of little kingdoms for centuries and thrived because, not despite of it. People don't want to be ruled with an iron fist, by a tyrant who lives in a capital thousands of miles away, they want a king who came out of their midst.
pic related, the holy roman empire was the largest confederacy in the world and when it finally fell apart after the french revolution people moved to the US to recreate it. Remember, the early United Sates (plural) were a confederacy of free states, not a monolithic, totalitarian government ruled by a masonic kike from Washington.
Secessionism creates factions which compete against each other. It's why Europe never developed a silicon valley. There needs to be a free trade union for monopolies to exist and concentrate wealth into innovation centers.
you mean the HRE? You realise people now identify with the culture of their nation more than they identify as the culture of today, Im not against Federalism, hell I believe every provonce should have its own army, but here in Spain its only a money drain
and the Holy Roman Empire was still a state, with a great fuckfest but still a state
Even the little kingdoms were divided into counties, just like the counties and municipalities of today. Small, tribal states are are completely natural and were the norm until the 19th century when they were displaced and abolished by the modern monolithic megastates like the US, EU & USSR.
Of course it was a state, but it was a city state with free cities that even the kaiser did not dare to meddle with. It is unnatural to be ruled over by a foreigner who has never even set foot into your county, city or village. Government must be close to the people to have their support.
false, the kingdoms were still kingdoms, the counties were more like administrative regions with alot of autonomy than a real country, besides the kingdoms werent small, they were alredy big, the only one with what you say is the HRE and that still had infighting between the cities
and feudalism ended in the 15th century with absolutism coming into play, it seems you got your information from Crusader Kings 2
See link above. Absolutism in europe was anything but absolute. The monarch was a representative of the aristocracy, not a tyrant. See link below. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta
The free cities were still a subject to the HRE emperor And the Magan Carta only came after the king beat the everloving shit out of the barons
The cities had treaties with each other, as well as the emperor, even though they had certain obvligations, they were sovereign until the 15th century. Btw. i am not advocating that we go back to the city state model of the holy roman empire, i am just saying that historically, even small cities had vast amounts of freedom and power was decentralized to a large degree.
Fusion of nation is not good unless the governmental authority is willing to do a lot of ethnic cleansing to create a homogenous or obedient population, see China.
China is actually an amalgamation of different nations of Asians bannered under the ethnicity of Chinese after centuries of conquest and assimilation and cleansing later. Different regions of Chinese have distinct phenotypes, but they are all considered Chinese.
In a nationalist's eyes, it is a horrible outcome, but such is the nature of humanity and its innate to conquer and control, after a few generations, the conquered nations will slowly be less resistant and will eventually be breed out of existence.
The problem with EU is slightly different, complicated by different races that makes group identity much difficult to create without identify distinct ethnic populations with the EU.
Balkanization is only shitty when it's the same nation fragmenting, like Austria and Germany or the Netherlands and Flanders. In many other cases though, such as the Ottoman Empire and Austria-Hungary, it's one nation freeing itself from the yoke of another.
China shouldn't exist. Free Tibet, free Uyghuristan, free Manchuria!
Culture is downstream from race. There are cultural and racial divisions within the European people, Herr Merkel.
yeah, but how are you going to defend yourself against military threats? See the articles of confederation. They were shitty because if someone had wanted to invade, the States would've been powerless to stop them.
Yes, every ethnic enclave should be a state and every state in Europe should be united by a soft bond… no, not like the (((EU))), like Mosley's "Europe a Nation" that has a very unintrusive "Federation government" similar to the early days of the US, where the only thing it is in charge of is trade and and a united military… that's it. The constitution must be VERY CLEAR in assuring the limited role of the Federation government. The only real issue is how would it work insofar as football and the Olympic Games?
Yins wanna lib in an ethnocity ? That's bees da future muh nikkaz. Sheeit. Fug jynatown and injinville. Weez talgin bouds duh muh fuggin ethnocities. Entire cities full of doggoskinners or elgoblinos. My city will be Alpine village and allow only genetic Germans, North Italians, Swiss, and Austrians only. Well, 80% genetic Alpinid and 20% rest of the world. Whud yall nigduz thanks and shiiiidz ? -anigga
Balkanization triggers the empireboos
Bumping a jewish D&C thread exposes you as a shill.
Balkanization is necessary when a countries cultures do not mix.