I don't expect this to go over well here, but it is of utmost importance to take this into consideration.
We all have a consensus that race and tradition are of the utmost importance, and I do not seek to change that. However, we need to abandon labels that have connection to National Socialism, Fascism, and any other White Nationalist/identitarian groups. While these groups aren't bad in principle, they are horrible in optics. Hitler's National Socialist Worker's Party was successful because it had good ideas but also had incredible stylish uniforms, a symbol which wasn't uncommon but was new and catchy, grandiose speaking styles, and other things which were of equal importance to their ideas. The same goes for the British Union of Fascists. These groups were able to attract so many followers because they were revolutionary and because their historical ties were ideas rather than names and branding.
Why am I bringing this up? Because we need to do something similar. We need to abandon these labels of identitarianism and National Socialism and instead take on different names. Names unique to us and to our respective nations. We obviously should keep the same ideas, but we need to disassociate ourselves from these boogiemen in history if we want any chance of success.
Do you think you're the first person to think of this? Do you think you're the first person or even among the top 10 to make this thread?
Adam Edwards
I guess paywalls don't work or this faggot wouldn't have gotten out so easily.
Hudson Cook
No one is doing it. The best we have in the realm of optics is Nick Fuentes, and he isn't enough to start any large movement.
Daniel Green
Kill yourself moshe.
Oliver Torres
No, we won't be doing that.
Benjamin Gray
MUH OPTICS MUH PEE ARR Fuck off TRSodomite.
Isaiah Roberts
Excellent advertisement, thank you for your contribution.
Thomas Bell
OP mentions optics and gets a bunch of vitriol and no counter arguments. Surely you fags must have some pastas saved on this (admittedly tired and old) topic if you’re feeling too lazy to explain yourselves.
Oliver Miller
Never mind, another Nick Fuentes shill. Reported.
Henry Jones
They call trump a nazi, you fucking retard. There is no optic game beside being eloquent, well kempt and well dressed.
Leo Evans
No, we won't be doing that.
Xavier Adams
You know, I agree with you that we have an optics problem. What we lack right now are articulate young men who can speak knowledgeably about White issues. However, there are still some such men. Men such as James Allsup and as you say, Nick Fuentes. And radio broadcasts such as Red Ice and Way of the World.
The problem is that with the passing of the Old Guard (Dr. Pierce, Bob Whitaker, Harold Covington, etc) there was this awful void that we are still trying to fill. And the people who originally stepped up to the plate to fill it were wierdoes like Andrew Anglin, Richard Spencer, and TRS.
But things are changing and a new White-Right is emerging.
Adrian James
Are you that one Dutch guy again? I agree with what you're saying but I'm really too blackpilled to suggest much of anything. Sorry.
Zachary Martinez
No thanks paco.
Zachary Brown
You're right to know that the idea of giving up a title is abhorrent to those on Zig Forums. What you would have more success at is proposing a new name that would describe the current situation and serve current needs. In Hitler's time, he picked the name National Socialist and even the symbols of his efforts mainly to attract the same sorts who got wrapped up in Communist movements. That is, the name and symbols were tools to achieve a certain end.
Without a proper name, an idea has no meaning to a human brain. Likewise a bad name will make a good idea bad, and a good name will make a bad idea good. To come up with a proper name for something you have to know exactly what it is, find a word to express that in a meaningful way, and craft that word or symbol to mean that idea and that idea mean that word. There's a reason why an artist was the creator of the NSDAP and its symbols.
No one will accept the argument to lay down a tool here. Even if the tool is not fit to purpose, it's better than nothing. One has to create a new tool to provide that is better suited to the task, and that is a creative and artistic process. Think harder, present a replacement, and you might get a bit more traction. Otherwise the revelation that the old tool is not entirely fit to current purpose is no revelation at all.
The optics you present is quite real. Hitler understood both the power and irrelevancy of symbolism. However, if we're to keep the same fundamental ideals of National Socialism, Nick is nowhere close to /ourguy/ simply because he's a Civic Nationalist. And while Civic Nationalism is our present situation and we can, over length of time, steer away from it producing an ethno-State, I haven't heard him ever say that's his goal; I've never heard Nick mention Civic Nationalism as a stepping stone to the ethno-State. On the otherhand, anons who rally for a white ethno-State in America really have no idea how to properly achieve it without causing backlash. So while some anons are worried about optics, we should be cementing a proper ideology and steps to take to achieve our goal.
What the west needs right now is a free speech movement.
Isaac Ross
Good idea. Let's keep all our same ideas but start calling ourselves "progressive."
Christian Moore
While OP is not the first person to bring up the issue, I have been thinking long and hard about what to call ourselves (or at least what American Zig Forumslacks ought to call themselves). If I were to give a new identifying term, it would be 'Jacksonians', after Andrew Jackson. I honestly believe that aside from 'muh PR', Zig Forums is much more spiritually in line with Jackson than Hitler. Hitler tried to present himself and NS with an aesthetic of power and order. Jackson was crass and unpolished. There is no one who can honestly say that Zig Forums reflects the spirit of Hitler's vision, but we are most certainly akin to Jackson's temperament.
Colton Cooper
Leftists get so BTFO when you show that Adolf Hitler was in fact a "progressive".
Interesting post In my opinion, we can just be Natsoc without calling ourselves Natsoc. People can be kinda receptive of that
John Ortiz
rebrand hmm ok on the hanging banners that are taller than 8 feet we will have 3 swastikas instead of just one.
Christopher Sanchez
This isn't a company man. Take some time and meditate and reflect what our goals here are. We're upright and honest people. The """"brand"""" we have is us being honest. Our intents and purposes are clear the only trouble is making sure people know what exactly we want, why, and how. And by people I mean like other thinking people who have the capacity to be radical or abate us in this long ass struggle.
Like yeah I know what you're thinking, but abandoning what we are is actually something that turns off people we want to listen, and doesn't even do anything for all the fucking dunderheads you think you're appeasing. Hell that's really the short and sweet of it: appeasement doesn't work.
Optics is a retarded notion in the long run to water down ideas and distort them to not fit their original purpose, OP. Save for a few examples here and there if you don't name the jew, you're just wasting your breath since you're going after symptoms, not causes. For Spic Fuentes, he got initially popular by shit-talking a fat jew boomer and explicitly talking about jews while pointing a knife at him. So much for optics. Now he wants to push his LARPy Catholic traditionalism/clerical fascism. That's what happens all the time. They don't like how things don't fit how they think it should be so they push their fanfictions
Nathan Clark
Calm down Dinesh
Charles Nguyen
I just tell people I am a fascist. They are pretty receptive because most people want to be polite, especially in public and with their family.
We will kill you all, kikes. We will establish Fascism and National Socialism all over the world. All who opese will be eliminated. There is nothing that you can do about it.
Ethan Perez
Hitler and the German/Italian/Japanese people were the only ones couragous enough to stand up against evil, which is why they're demonized so strongly. if you can't find it within yourself to honor the first heros, then that same evil will simply use the same demonization techniques against whatever form you take. rebranding wont matter
their tactic only works if you let it. stop allowing them to so easily manipulate you by deciding what symbols/icons you can or can not use
William Martinez
The problem is that for every Zig Forumslack out there, there are 10 people who are almost ready to agree, but they are so confused and mixed up by terms and propaganda that they think either globalists are 'nazis' or that 'National Socialism is just another form of Marxism'. When they have one of these thoughts, the conversation screeches to a dead halt. Holding onto a name because it's 'sacred' is retarded.
Luis Torres
There is no amount of branding you can do that will make our ideas popular while in opposition to the dominant culture and the current public education system. We need a dedicated core of people who have realistic goals set for them and a competent leadership structure (or a decentralized system that allows coordination and consensus on goals, easier said than done. ).
Being intentionally obscene and unpleasant obviously isn't going to win wider appeal IRL (although it will certainly win over our ELITE NEET anime nigger overlords) but the reality is that most normies will already think you're a nazi if you start talking about immigration or the jewish question or any other variety of issue.
The 'optics' debate honestly side-steps what is a more important issue anyways. An over-focus on aesthetic appeal and absence of any real plan. There's a strangely feminine streak within the far -right that insists that the appearance of things is the problem, when in reality it's mostly the lack of meaningful action. To be clear, this is just as true for the people who scream 'optics cuck' as it is for people who want Leave it to Beaver Nationalism. Obsessing over looking edgy is just as 'appearance-focused' as pretending to be a normie when you aren't, and everyone knows you're not. I'll use an example. Compare Tony Hovater to Matt Heimbach.. Hovater is a silent workhorse who focused entirely on building something meaningful to help and Heimbach focused on theatrics and outrageous optics. The irony of Heimbach going so hard against the 'optics cucks' is that in his own way, he was an optics cuck (inb4 box cuck jokes).
the jews will not fall unless their lies and crimes are exposed, that includes the crimes against Hitler and his people. either humanity knows the truth about the evil of the jews, or they continue believing the lies about them being victims of a fictional massacre. there can not be a contradictory lie standing alongside the truth, only one can exist
to abandon the truth is to fail, which is your only proposition with this trash thread
Jackson Wilson
You lie and say you're something else, the system will simply out you for what you are and the lies as well will chase you. THAT is why it is sacred and worth keeping. Instead of running we stand and fight and those people on the fence will come to our side if we simply tell the truth. And don't despair. There are many retards out there. Even some of the thinking minority are fucking retarded. Don't despair. We will win, that one out ten is better than zero. You will get zero good men out of lying and changing shapes.
Do you understand?
Matthew Phillips
Rockwell explains this situation in depth and the events of recent years show the truth of his conclusion.
Jacob King
of the 'movement'. The Swastika would probably not bring me many supporters, but those who came would be men.
American Civil Liberties Union has worked tirelessly and effectively to break down the resistance of our government and officials against the inroads of Communist arrogance, while the public has been taught to 'turn the other cheek' and be so tolerant that the vilest traitors must be accorded every 'right', including the right of spitting in the eye of Congress with their 'Fifth Amendment' impudence. Thanks to the efforts of the Jews themselves, it is impossible simply to grab Nazis and throw them into jail without some kind of proceedings, otherwise they would expose their tyranny for all to see. The self-same court rulings which enable the Jew-Communists to drive their daggers closer to the beating heart of America enable us to preach and to organize the gassing of the traitors, according to law. Freedom of speech for Jew Communist traitors means freedom of speech for 'Nazis'!
Isaiah Cruz
...
Austin Richardson
I apologize for shitty formatting
Jayden Perry
Just more proof this entire fucking thread is shills, and the mods are fucking faggots. Time to burn this place down.
I'm going to go die of cancer now, if that's okay.
Aiden Taylor
edgy … that guy was really good in OZ
Adrian Long
Thank you for your contribution. I understand your point but I disagree. No matter what truths people like us report, we will be labelled according the most easily digested slur of the era. It doesn't help that there are many ignorant individuals who claim to be fascist or national socialist but are little better than those who parrot Marxist tripe on college campuses without the knowledge and conviction to support their assertions.
Image is a powerful tool of propaganda but it can easily become the enemies' tool when obsessed over. The similarities between this dilemma and Christian denominational infighting are numerous. With every split, re-branding, corporate identity style initiative, it encourages further charlatans and festers even less intelligent associates; all who, willingly or otherwise, are responsible for damaging the cause.
David Long
Bad idea. Just look at Trump. There's nothing he could do to get them to not call him a racist. The only option is to embrace it and attack.
No we don't. 66 percent of kids in the US don't even no what concentration camps are. The US education system being third world tier actually helps us here.
I'm working on it, it's coming out at 2025 at the latest
Landon Perry
We need to just call ourselves "Americans, Brits, Germans" ect. The nogs and kikes openly state they want nothing to do with those, and instead want to take it over and "diversify" it.
You just have to explain that "diversity" = No white people.
Jacob Russell
Tell us more
Liam Walker
You'll know it when you see it.
Jackson Hernandez
beware of spooks and try not to get suicided like so many others
Camden Morgan
they are larping marxist faggots and kikes, just ignore
Josiah Bennett
...
Xavier Brooks
Such things need no preface declaring it as such.
Blake Edwards
They're "triggered" in the same way people get angry when they have to send time with retards. Shitting your own pants and screaming at the top of your lungs will piss people off to.
This. This whole thread explained in one post. No matter what surface there is and what associasions, if it has traditional values and nationalistic touch to it, it is immediatwly "nazi" from a soy standpoint. Modern politics is all about getting lost in the details and nitpicking every word.
Angel Cox
Dude I understand your thought process and it’s not bad but just keep in mind they call cuckservative Trump supporters “nazis”. Do you not think they will do the same the instant they catch a wiff or what you are selling?
Look up videos of the cuckservative group Patriot Prayer facing off with antifa. The group is lead by a half Jap and a Samoan and yet they get labeled “far right” and “Nazi”. You mind as well embrace the fact you are a racist. I don’t think the key is finding out how to hide it. In fact, I’ve stopped giving a shit. They slandered doxxed that soy Trump supported kid over the weekend for simply standing near a injun. Don’t let optics become that much of a burden
Brandon Gomez
A lot of libtards i meet in person with ignorant "socialist-marxist" rants never believe it when I tell them nazi stands for nationalist-socialist…
We have a very bizarre situation where people are so brainwashed that they attack the very "socialism" they might honestly dream about.
The "bad optics" is little the fault of these ideas on their own.
Julian Rogers
Hey guys. I'm not the best with graphic design so it needs work, but here's my attempt at something a little different. Hopefully you can figure out what this is supposed to be
Need for currency in symbolism which will have authentic content and style, yet match with the inspiration for a new and urgently needed movement It should be inspired by the Proper Authority, which will speak only to the Aryan Anointed. That one is basically the equivalent of the Spiritual Father (Uberfuhrer) of the Aryan Race. Mission is unlikely to succeed, as this world is the doomed remnant of the already successful Aryan Rebellion against the Demiurge and Its Kike underlings and their beastly hordes of untermenchen golems and soul-less meat machines. We are living in the aftermath of that war.
Benjamin Young
Running around with swastika will scare normies. They are brainwashed about ebil nazis. But if you tell them about national socialist economy, they usualy agree with it. Fear of talking about jews is problem. Generation Identitiy is good attempt to have more friendly optics. I understand why Sellner don't want to talk about jews. (((They))) would shot him down. So general public know that muslims are trash today. They may agree that banks and economy is one big scam. You can even tell them about Rotschilds. But when you say they jews, you scare them.
And even if they admit how bad it is, their answer is… But, what can you do? We can't change it.
Good thing about migrants is normies can't just ignore it. Boomer generation is lost. Fucking hippies. They don't care because Jimmy Hendrix was black guy and they will die soon anyway.
Another problem is that jews looks white. When you know about jews, you will be able to find them. But for normie Robert Downey Jr is white guy.
Another think is people rather stay low, because they need job to pay bills. Muslims in Europe do great job for us. Teen girls are afraid of rape and you can still explain lot to them. Lot of people would agree with real death camps, but they just don't want to see it. Same like people don't want to see slaughter of cow. They just want to eat tasty burger.
For me Rise Above Movement is great example of good optics. Another paradox is Hitler. If you show some of his videos to normies, they are suprised. Yes, they will tell you how bad war was and muh 6 000 000. It is all jewish spell that hold them back.
About symbol. Swastike scare normies. But Black Sun is fine for them. I can wear stuff like this and nobody care about it. Replace it with swastika and somebody will call police on me in few minutes.
And sorry for crappy english. I get lot heat for bad spelling.
The fact that the kikes have forever made the nazis, the ultimate bad guys and we still manage to bring new people to it, shows that the most important thing is the truth, that Hitler spoke… and that hitler did nothing wrong, gas the kikes, race war now.
This is a cowardly approach. What must be done is to force people to realize that they have been lied to and misled by those who were supposed to educate them. In the opposite fashion to those that subverted these ideologies in the first place, conditioning needs to take place to desensitize people to these terms. It is already happening, there have never been more people aware of the JQ or the brainwashing that has taken place to engender pure emotional hatred towards whites and especially 'Nazis'. Keep peeling away at the edges of the lies that have been taught, this ensures that once people are actually thinking for themselves, they are pissed at those that have deceived them.
Ayden Scott
Don't let an Israeli shill with a snarky 1-word response throw you off your game
Wyatt Cox
I really like this, I might change the colors a bit, such as making the snake red with a black mouth, but otherwise, great work!
Brayden Moore
Defense is fine if you have a ground that can be defended from an external threat. Thing is, we are fighting an army of infiltrators and traitors, psychological attacks and such.
Defense, actually shooting the invaders would be an excellent strategy.
Just replace "jews" with "globalist oligarchs" which hits the crypto-jews and jews alike, and allows you to get both commies and nazi's united. It sounds enough like "bourgeoisie" and enough like "jews" to get both sides involved. And I am not a commie but I think we need as many people as possible talking about the enemy and focusing on them rather than each other. The enemy is so powerful we need every radical we can get going after them.
