Anyone with eyes can see the massive forced meming seemingly for vaccinations. To most it seems normal but I can always tell when trickery is a foot and now I understand why. The entire meme has nothing to do with vaccinating or not vaccinating but is rather a psyop to associate white people with previously eradicated diseases that are suddenly reappearing instead of the very obvious other true reason as to why they are appearing.
Massive third world immigration brings with it many problems and one very obvious one is diseases that thanks to white medicine have left our society and now thanks to importing human garbage thinks like measles have started to reaappear. This is a problem for the jews, a simple answer? Deflect onto white people, the tried and true strategy that has worked for years.
It's a mystery to me how everyone can collectively agree that our medical system is geared to put you into debt, peddle opioids to everyone, and none of these med companies are our friends, but when it comes to vaccines they are suddenly untouchable? People suddenly trust them when it comes to vaccines.
Jonathan Smith
What I find most fucked, is just how religiously dogmatic the NPCs are about this. You even QUESTION the vaccines, you're fucking attacked worse than saying you fuck little children in the ass in public. It's literally considered being worse than a child rapist.
Justin Robinson
The very quick and obvious derail, this thread has nothing to do with the effectiveness of vaccines but rather the reason why the meme is being pushed so hard.
Julian Peterson
Just like the Patiotard/Infocuck types who say the mainstream media is lying about everything - except Hitler and the Holocaust.
Luis Watson
You shills use the same tactics every thread.
Kayden Richardson
Its not just vaccines for diseases. I told my doctor I didn't want the flu shot he offered and he looked at me like I was nuts. He tried to offer it several more times which I simply said NoThanks. When i was leaving he came at me with 'Do you not want the shot because you think there's mercury in it?' I told him to fuck off and will never see him again.
Adam Anderson
I hope you get the measles and die shitskin.
Jaxson Campbell
because you've been proven wrong time & time again.
The only thing anti-vaxxers got half right was the suspicious rise in autism, but the reasons for that weren't linked to vaccines. It had to do with women in their 30s giving birth to kids with polluted wombs and doctors shilling meds to any soccer moms kid with regular developmental issues.
I don't find anything disagreeable with the theory behind inoculation, I just wonder—and see evidence of experimentation with—what govts could do to their citizens under the guise of humanitarian crisis solving or some other such highfalootin euphemistic name. Is it really necessary to stick very young children with diseases that they would not naturally get within the first years of their life. Contrary to the scare, most children throughout history did not get anything more serious than a flu during their children and adolescence and those that got a nasty illness didn't get like ten of them at once, just one possibly lifethreatening one. The idea of prophylaxis is being milked for all its worth right now and in reality one does not need to be deliberately preparing to get these diseases except perhaps very serious ones that are being eradicated, like smallpox was. Let Africa be a diseased shithole without us and watch as a Yearly Hajj gets a half billion Mohammadans sick in the near future, and they all track it home and cause massive epidemics in Mohammadan countries, solving a much ignored problem, that of the massive growth of that world. Turkey needs to be utterly exterminated and their identity conquered, split the land before Greece, Armenia, Syria, Azerbaijan and Kurdistan. Roll back the centuries of Arabization on these folks, make them Aramean, Assyrian, Canaanite, Berber, Maghrebi, Arabs only in Arabia. I've got plenty more ideas like this, folks just aren't interested in thinking outside the box.
See now you are getting it, you dont have to stick strictly to your shill script. That character is a little played out though.
Ryan Phillips
You, shill, use the same tactic every thread.
Ayden Hall
Yeah even Youtuber poopypie was pushing it
Justin Torres
Your thread makes a point. But I wasn't responding to you because there's nothing else to say. Do you want an upboat?
Jason Morgan
There are only two eventualpossibilities with vaccines. A) they are going to introduce something into your body to change something, ie. Alter dna, fuck up your progeny B) introduce biological threats into the population, then offer vaccines. Other than those two possibilities, there is no explainable reason why pharma and hospitals are spending billions of dollars and ratcheting up instances of vaccines each decade while not only is there no demand for it, but people are living longer. Governments dont waste money giving shit to people for no reason. If they're giving it, its an investment and they will reap a return greater than the cost of energy and time put in. Otherwise, there's no reason to do it. The medical establishment isn't somebody's grandma, its an industry that invented eugenics, bio weapons, mental institutions etc. They could care less if you die of influenza or aids
Eli Long
Oldfag here. In the seventies, in my place, you got vaccines only for serious illnesses. All the measles, rubella, parotitis you 'had to' get at school. So, when the pro vax scare came I felt like 'we always been at war with eastasia'
People treat anti vaxxxer as they were the irrational ones with hydrophobic stance whenever they see a needle. OK, but they lump them together with people who simply ask: hey what's in that vaccine? because you know, injecting stuff is delicate. And so, [1984 feeling intensifies]
Back to the topic, I heard somewhere else links between the risks of immigrations and vaccines, but OP is indeed offering a more complete rationalization.
Colton Clark
honestly, when I discovered vaccines contain cell lines from intentonally aborted fetuses the mark of the beast. No degrees of separation from a satanic ritual. A symbolic communion with death. wew.
Gabriel Hall
Are you some kind of brain damaged?
Gabriel Baker
Yes. We have our own courts you can use. Trust me you don't need juries, you should just settle for arbitration. My friend was paid about 6 million dollars because he got sterilized by Dr. Mangele. True Story, its called "The Office of Special Masters of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims"
William Roberts
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Angel Baker
The truth is that they have poisons in them. The flu vaccine was PROVEN to cause miscarriages in white women.
Ayden Phillips
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. It makes sense. Fuck all the shills or retard missing the point entirely. This isn't a debate about vaccination; it's about forcibly shifting the blame from shitskin immigrants to whites.
Alexander Collins
I'm going to fuck OP's day.
Fixed that for you. I can tell from your broken english and your terrible grammar that you're not a regular here. It's interesting how you're framing the vaccine discussion; "Vaccines work? Well these [insert random expletive here] have to be vaccinated or you may get chicken pox!"
Measles are a non-issue anyway, two dozen kids in California get sick for a week?? That's why we have to pay $50 dollars for an HPV vaccine that might paralyze you?!
Nah fuck you, this thread is now about how fucked up vaccines are.
Daniel Cooper
Here is a good video about measles. If you eat a diet high in fat-soluble vitamins from local, organic sources, then your body will beat the disease inside a week, giving you lifetime immunity, and strengthen any children you will have.
Oh, and don't forget your other 80 vaccines.
Isaiah King
VACCINES ARE GOOD FOR YOU, THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED MY PEER-REJEWED STUDY SAYS SO
Mason Cox
Yes, measles vaccine is not necessary imo, but this must be a a joke re: fat-soluble vitamins.
Too much fat soluble vitamins (beta carotene in particular) is overloading livers. Liver disease is skyrocketing.
Stupid millenial parents are ODing their kids on carrots & their kids are turning orange, hypervitaminosis A.
Benjamin Thompson
Ya wtf is up with this? A lot of my norman friends have been posting anti-vax memes out of nowhere lately.
Hudson Sullivan
If the vaccines work then there wouldnt be vaccinated people falling ill with the diseases. Yes, the shitskins coming in are the reason that there has been outbreaks, but if the vaccines worked in the first place this wouldnt be the case. That is ONE of the reasons for the "muh stupid antivaxxers are to blame" because SOMETHING has to be blamed but if that something to be blamed is shitskins, or even the kikes pushing ineffective vaccines, then OY FUCKING VEY!
So, what better way to handle it then by accusing the people you are attacking with shitskin invasion of causing what the shitskin invasion is responsible for? Its peak pilpul meets peak hegelian dialectic.
But, then too, it is also about continuing the original attack. If you are attacking someone, then what better way to be able to continue attacking them then convincing everyone that any claims that anyone aside from the people you are attacking are the ones to blame is insanity, and maybe even borderline criminal!
Camden Rogers
all the measles shit in the news lately is telling, they are definitely trying to prime everyone for a massive psyop but I cant figure out exactly what it would be.
Matthew Gray
There is an obvious attempt at association between anti-vax and the flat earth "conspiracy". Such "conspiracies" are always disseminated to weaken those actual questions of authority and concerns of validity. At the very least, this dissemination is because various industries fear lost profits; at the very worst it is because the antivaxxers are right.
If we imagine an individual having the option to choose between several measles vaccines, then the problem is made apparent. There can be no 'free play of economic forces' in the world of vaccination. For the public lacks the knowledge to assess vaccinations, and an individual cannot revoke their choice of vaccine. In reality, the choice of any individual is limited to a single vaccine for any disease.
The argument is always based upon the sovereignty or the common good of the industries, and their mercenaries. In the sovereign case, they point to the storied history of its saintly immunologists, as if this at all guarantees all its current, and future, employees some divine grace. In the common good case, they argue that any generated profits are secondary to the concern for the wellbeing and health of the public; that these businesses suffer no immediate losses, economic or otherwise, from the failure of their vaccines shows these guarantees as empty. Nor could the business guarantee the continuance of this work for the common good, given the inevitable changes to its policies with changes to its staff and conditions.
The basis of the problem is Protocol Governance.
The governance by rule – the if A, then B – has occurred, increasingly, throughout history. It is the underlying premise of all bureaucratic systems, religious literalism, democratic governance, peer-to-peer and blockchain governance, statistical governance and rule of law. The variation in content belies the unifying element – the absolute sovereignty of the automatic protocol over human judgement.
This protocol governance always originates from the failure of political structures and their underpinning philosophical systems. The response by society to this failure is always a compulsion to scapegoat and sacrifice. The variation then, in this response, is the placement of this scapegoating upon the actors within the system, or the system itself.
Eli Young
While I agree there's a heavy-handed deflection going on about who is bringing all these diseases back into our societies, I believe there are much more to the whole media/plebbitor vaccine circus going on. There are several other, in many cases fundamental, issues with the vaccinations they want to keep out of normalfag minds. And I'm not talking about autism or any of that now, personally I think that's a red herring too (even though it might be true.)
First of all, I feel a large part of the whole vaccine thing is about scaring the population. A long time ago when I started looking into statistics for diseases and vaccinations, trying to form an opinion on a topic that seemed controversial, I discovered something very few people talk about in this debate. Namely how most of the diseases we vaccinate against are not that fucking dangerous in the first place. Measles is a good example. You will see media propaganda posts going "measles kill 20 million each year!!" and every plebbitor shits their pants. But then you find out that these are a tiny fraction of people contracting measles, people in the third world who are severely malnutritioned and pre-stone age hygienic practices. Latest stats from Oxford shows that in the western world people who die from measles after contraction are 1 in 5000. I'd like you to think about that number for a while. At the peak of measles epidemics in the pre-vaccination age, about 500 people died each year in the US. That's less than people who die from slipping in the bath-tub or falls off their bike. Do you see plebbitors being hysterical about putting helmets on their kids whenever they go out, or installing safety harnesses in their bath-tubs? Something very irrational is going on here. I won't even go into the flu, because who in their right mind would be afraid of the flu? Only 10-15 years ago the flu was something you got every other year and didn't think any of it. The reality is that only completely immunodeficient babies or 90 year olds die from a large swath of what's vaccinated against. Not really something to justify a hysterical, society-wide, multi-billion dollar industry. What I'm trying to say is that the fear of many of these diseases is blown way out of proportion.
Which leads me to my second point, that vaccines are pretty dysgenic in themselves. How is this going to pan out over time, when we're saving immunodeficient people so they can breed into the population. How can natural selection pressure for surviving all these easymode diseases persist when there's no reason to? So what will all this do to us some generations down the line? Will our descendants one day need these vaccines so they don't actually die from harmless shit like measles and the flu?
Samuel Lee
Vaccines would be fine if they didn't put mercury and other poisons in them
vaccinations do nothing to prevent the spread of diseases and do everything to create autistic, sterile, faggot tranny children
there's a reason the system injects kids and pregnant women with heavy metals and poison, and it's not to protect them from some nigger disease
Joseph Nelson
System in 2070 Remember:
Logan Price
But Somalis are the most vocal anti vaxers
Matthew Hughes
Repeating yourself is surly a good way to stop people from filtering tor in every thread lol
Jackson Watson
Go shill you sterilization poison elsewhere, fed
Kevin Roberts
That's very true, the system wants complete compliance with it's dictates, no questioning. Even if modern vaccines are not dangerous, there is nothing stopping (((them))) form changing the next batch.
Do you have a source on that? I have a small brother and really want to know if there is any truth to the anti-vaxxers clams.
Gavin Diaz
google the ingredients. they use shit like aluminum
OP you are absolutely right. Let me tell you that diseases that have been eradicated for more than 20 years are now reporting outbreaks in several countries. Even in third world shitholes like Brazil, the Venezuela refugee crises brought along strains of those virus that brazilians are not immunized against, guess what? The BBC of Brazil(Globo org), is already veiculating covering of anti-vaxxers and how the immunization in the country went from around 90% to alarming levels that could end in a health crisis.
While, not even accounting, but merely reporting that some Venezuelans are bringing disease with them.
Kevin Taylor
The studies that the vaccine shills use are epidemiological, so that they can fuck with the data. What is needed is experiments in an animal model, biological studies. The US won't do it. I found this from Chinese scientists.
The Hep. B vaccine is given to every infant hours after birth. Hep. B is a sexually transmitted disease and one that is transferred with exposure to blood or other fluids. A common method of infection/transmission is sharing needles for intravenous drug use. Furthermore, the Hep. B vaccine provides temporary immunity, and by the time the infant has matured and grown up to adolescence, and is presumably sexually active (if they are degenerate), the immunity is gone, and they are suddenly more at risk then ever before of contracting Hep B.
Children receive 50 vaccinations from birth to age 6 in the US. 69 by age 18. The CDC plans on doubling that number by 2030. Something is very wrong with the pharmaceutical industry and vaccine manufacturers, and I'm dedicated to finding out what it is. Here are some screenshots.
Inject those mystery chemicals, goys. Don't forget to include all of your offpsring too, heh heh.
Christopher Sanders
I wonder how it alll these vax memes is governments and medical companies astroturfing, there we’re some army documents talking about weaponizing memes to change society but I can’t find it.
Leo Brown
Circumcision
Isaac Lee
Nigger, plebbit loves vaccines. Someone who was raised by "anti-vaxxers" injecting themselves with jewish poison is peak bravery, second only to a parent convincing their son he wants to be a tranny and loading him up with hormones.
Reminder that CM wants this kind of non-content on Zig Forums A distracted natsoc is a good natsoc to them.
Jeremiah Cooper
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Easton Thomas
Avpid flu shots at all costs. I had pro vaxx doctors warning me about them. They are both dangerous and useless because they protect for a strain that already passed.
Tyler Howard
Styx put out a pro vaccine video today too. Why do threads here so often seem to line up with e-celeb output?
Daniel Roberts
Ha, you are dead wrong buckaroo, Americans have a time honored tradition of flushing money down the toilet through welfare of all kinds.
This is where you get called a retard and they tell you it only works if everyone is vaccinated.
Easton Allen
Chill out, dude, they are offering a counter-argument. Your OP makes a really good point, but it's also the case that the anti-vax contingent goes way beyond that, they are completely irrational. There are a handful of diseases where they probably have a very good point that vaccinations are important, but like said, they go after people who even question flu shots.
Landon Hall
Tbh, I've been seeing a lot more vaccine stuff lately on Twitter and elsewhere. Maybe they push this seasonally.
Interesting. A lot of it is just greed, user. In 1986, Reagan signed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. This protected vaccine manufacturers from liabilities if they got sued, so it took any brakes off them pushing vaccines all the time everywhere.
Those countries then allow us to setup OUR human racketeering businesses, so our ultra wealthy billionaires can spend less money on foreign children to fuck, and use that money instead to buy larger yachts on which to fuck those very same children out in maritime law waterways.
Cameron Lewis
There is (was?) recently a measle outbreak, it started in Jew York, spread by jews community that refuse vaccine for (((religious reasons))) then moved on to washington
Also,
Isaac Jenkins
No, we don't. We use our brains and do basic research and see that they are just overcharging for them like everything else. Do you believe casts are a conspiracy? Why is every other health procedure just expensive, but vaccines are poison?
Quite the opposite. Saying something as benign as "there's no evidence that vaccines are poison" results in massive tardrage from /x/ schizos.
Then why did different diseases go away at different times, always co-incidentally right after a vaccine was made for them? Shouldn't the sanitation and food have gotten rid of them all together? And why aren't we all full of polio and measles again now since our food is toxic shit since the 60s?
Hmmm…
Aaron Ramirez
this thread is anti vax if you actually bothered to read
Luke Sanchez
Hmmm, did you even watch it? Or what about the part where he has the screen shot from the CDC site "VAERS"? Is that number made up?
Yes I did watch it. Now go check those sources and see how the numbers he is giving are completely fucking wrong. No, but it is not what he says it is. If I say "the CDC says 123 people were killed by vampiric niggers in 2012" and then show a screenshot of the CDC website showing 123 people died from e.coli, that's not proof of vampiric niggers.
Sebastian Ross
Look at the whole thing as eugenics in process. Immigration (invasion) creates pestilence, (toxic) vaccination lowers defenses, and (non toxic) vaccinations will secure the military who's gonna sweep up the remains. That is the bacteriological warfare side of it, accompanied by demoralization, censorship of rights, corruption of natural identity, financial ruin and after that starvation, war and finally death or enslavement.
Josiah Brown
They are pretty open about their lack of data (namely, their rejection of data from sources that aren't authorized or approved by their agency policy crafted at the top of Bureaucracy). Here's the Ministry of Truth article: no evidence? or are they being ingenuous?
An infamous case of forced vaccination, demonstrating that it has to be baldly forced by a government on its people. Something that takes away such rights should surely be scrutinized closely.
Is this all, nothing to worry about? Or would they rather continue injecting people with viral particles of a sexually transmitted disease that is contracted in Western countries by less than 1% of the population, through needlesharing, sex and contact with blood—such as between mothers and their children in the womb. Which is to say that if you don't envision your child sharing needles, having sex with anyone other than their longterm partner, or being a mother sharing her disease with her baby, then there is >99% chance that they will not come into contact with Hepatitis B. So why do they want to do things like mandate/recommend things like hepatitis vaccines for expectant women and bat these questions away like we're being impudent for demanding the right to not undergo a literal preparation to get these diseases. If you get a vaccine, you are 'preparing' to come into contact with that disease, but in fact to mandate and recommend widespread use of inoculations rests on insufficient grounds as it is nigh unlikely that one will come into contact with them in the first place. And when the vaccines are studied as with these they yield further concern and skepticism.
The profit motive is not a reductionist approach to explaining the behavior of the medical community here.
Owen Allen
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Ian Ross
Availability is not the issue, it is efficacy as well. As the Ministry of Truth goes on: They presume that this is true because they are assuming their theory in explaining itself. They are defining vaccinated individuals qua 'less likely to contract and spread X disease(s)' and thus it is true that unvaccinated individuals are more likely to contract and spread X disease(s) by their definition, one that begs the question by presuming the belief that vaccines are, on the whole, effective in resisting infection by communicable illnesses, like gods above men with an armor that cannot be penetrated, whereas the unvaccinated swine are mere mortals that can contract disease from one another. The idea is preposterous on its face, because the data clearly shows that vaccines are woefully ineffective in preventing contraction but into the near future, hence the need for booster shots. Furthermore, the statistics on the presence of disease in Western society demonstrates that these illnesses were mostly gotten away with by changes in lifestyle and technology over time and not by vaccination. Children today are vaccinated repeatedly to prepare their bodies for diseases they will never be in contact with, as demonstrated by the stats on how few people living certain lifestyles contract these diseases and spread them. Lifestyle is in fact usually neglected as a variable in so called 'scientific' studies that presume to have isolated a variable for statistical comparison when they have a cluster of variables including social ones.
(((Arthur Kaplan))) wants you to know that it is in fact a form of neglect NOT to vaccinate your child for these diseases—diseases they won't or shouldn't be in contact with in the first place—and thus you have no right to not vaccinate your child. Sounds awfully similar to another infamous fraudulent abuse of prophylaxis to deprive fellow men of their rights: forced infant circumcision.
Naturally this doesn't include other views, such as that vaccinating an infant is a form of neglect (if it could be clearly and verifiably established that some aspect of the modern vaccine schedule and its contents was injurious to the child/adult). But that would require an expertise in wordplay that only a (((Kaplan))) could muster.
It doesn't matter if it's forced or not. What matters if if works on the NPC's. The aim is to induce in pavlovian matter an unthinking unquestioning acceptance of any and all vaccines. See pic. related.
Yes and no, some immortalized cell lines used for research (read: cells that either were cancer or were made like biologically immortal cancer cells) were derived from aborted fetuses.
The famous HeLa cell line came from some nigress who died in 1951 and is still a mainstay for research. "Made from baby parts" is about as accurate as saying HeLa cell derived polio vaccine is made from concentrated negro
I should mention there are no live human cell vaccines in use anywhere in the western world I am aware of. We use human(ish) cells to make protein or sugar compounds that the immune system can recognize
Alexander Hill
These is the lowest IQ memecraft I've ever seen. about everything else too. Notice how each and every one of these causes is accompanied by humiliation as a tool to win the court of public opinion and herd them away from the 'contrarian losers'. They'll drop dead of pertussis anytime soon anyways, those pesky naysayers. Also notice that autism is a big eye catcher. Everyone is concerned with debunking Andrew Wakefield and calling it fraudulent, but then this gives carte blanche to ignore any other complications or concerns that arise, whether they be related to autism or no.
Grayson Torres
Yeah it matters that it's forced meming. And yes it's gay. Even poopypie's laugh at them sounds forced. And his laughs always sound forced. Fucking shill-ass cunt that he is
John Lopez
Sounds about right. My read on it is
Whether the autism link is mercury in the (perhaps multidose?) vial, gut changes a la Wakefield, or some red herring caused by bad math, i dont know, but if it is real, its one of the three. The think I do discount is those pie in the sky theories about vaccines sapping our chakra energy, like the flouride guys who say it calcifies our pineal gland to prevent us from achieving nirvana or someshit.
Flouride is just a fertilizer manufacturing waste product kikes figured out how to sell to us, vaccines are another type deal, this time where its something actually useful in isolation, pressed to the limit for shekels, consequences be damned.
t. not an oldfag but old enough to have seen firsthand the chickenpox vaccine come in. I was the second to last year to "get the disease like everyone else".
Dylan Sanchez
Ever heard of pencils? Do you know how much labor goes into the production of a pencil? Okay, now what about a computer?
There’s a sense in which trust increases with scale. The more things have to go right for the world to exist as it does, the more things probably went right to create it. Vaccines are *like* that. They’re one of those things that you can trust because they already went right while creating the status quo.
It’s not actually practical to subvert this process. Poisoning en masses would produce chaotic degradation factors; you’d have to be omniscient or at least post-temporal to make a plan like that work. Remember that the stuporgenius types are still bound by the same causal and perceptual limits as everyone else.
Robert Williams
That's retarded. There's a million other things it could be, all of which are far more plausible. If it was vaccines (a completely made up idea, literally committing fraud making up fake data to publish) then autism rates should have soared when these vaccines were introduced, not 40 years later.
The problem with vaccines is the same problem as medical care in general: greed. The government funded vaccines for real diseases, and then pharma corps thought "shit we need more of this" and started pumping out vaccines and lobbying to get them mandatory for all kinds of shit that we don't need like hep B for babies and HPV to go to school.
John Reed
This school had a 98% measles vaccination level. Measles was caught by vaccinated students and spread in the school. This was 1987 so it was prior to any mass illegal immigration. Needless to say, the problem is exacerbated by illegal immigration which has been renamed as refugee resettlement.
Here's some real numbers for you. Fucking vaccine bitch
Jason Campbell
I know people will already side-track the whole discussion to; Vid related.
Vaccines KILL people, Vaccines do NO GOOD.
Jayden Moore
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Kevin Nguyen
While I believe Vaccines work, I'm also not naive enough to believe that an increasingly politicized pharma industry isn't above sneaking some extra shit into whatever they get the opportunity to inject people with. Anecdotally, I've known 2 sets of parents who had kids who ended up going full autismo after recent vaccinations, despite both parents being young, healthy, and good stock. Another Family almost lost their kid due to a string of vaccinations, Doctor's couldn't say if it was an allergic reaction or not.
Rock and a hard place at the end of the day.
Grayson Collins
Antidepressants are also poison, as is amphetamine. Both of which are being prescribed en masse to white children.
Adrian Fisher
Well, no. I'm gonna call him a retard for assuming anything has 100% success rate. Immunity might just not take even if you're vaccinated. The fact that third world shitskins who haven't heard of medicine beyond whatever tribal bullshit they deal with show up carrying all sorts of diseases doesn't help either. Of course, you can't trust what's in the vaccines anyway given the fact that those kiked companies make them.
