We are not original native Europeans (unlike Nordic people).
These narrow skull, inset eyes, long projected nose, more body hair etc are traits most strongly within Semitic and Persian populations (west Asians). Southern Europeans and western Europeans to an extent gained these features partially through genetic mixture, from ancient Persian civilisations that dominated southern Europe, in turn later the rise of Greece occurred.
Greece is the first advanced European civilisation, but it's not really a native European civilisation. It's a mixed civilisation that was built off the mixed group learning from their Persian conquerors.
Original Europeans "Northern Europeans" didn't build and advanced civilisation of their own.
Even far down in Saudi Arabia, the men show on average much greater inset eyes distance than any typical European men. This is because it originates outside of Europe. The original skulls of Europe before the mixture are all more similar to northern European skulls of Scandinavia and of Cro-Magnon etc.
Basically a wider skull, a nose that isn't as long and a much less intense nose bridge.
The original European stock is somewhat like in that picture. But also like this man as well in this picture. Even though this man is a modern European man, he still isn't mixed much with outside DNA and is still close to an original native European.
Inset eyes are a CM trait, west asians have more typically big bug eyes CM also had a low nasal angle, meaning his nose could be somewhat convex narrow skulls are definitely not particularly west asian, quite the contrary, west asians tend to be brachy and hypsicephalic
Now this woman isn't attractive and is old (but there are many that are attractive). The point is that she has the original trait.
The small nose in length (but it's still small in size in most dimensions, unlike Semitic and Persian noses). She also doesn't have ridiculous intense bone edges net to her forehead like those groups. Only subtle.
The ancient Greeks we know were a mix of relatively recent arrivals of blondes and the local population, which must gave looked like Minoans/ancient Egyptians. (They pictured Persian soldiers of their time as sometimes blonde too.) Later the formation of the northern Invaders that were the Latini into the Romans follows a similar pattern. I'm sure there were plenty of arab-looking people in the Levant, I doubt however they were the core aristocracy that gave the great civilisations you talk about, or they would be able to put on a better show today now that they're alone.
Luis Harris
Those are not inset eyes, also the nose bridge is literally right close to the eyes in that picture. That's a very flat faced human right there is a nor coming out from in-between the eyes just like the woman I posted.
A deep inset skull like the west Asian skulls is as such.
Other way around, blondes were the native populations of Europe.
The invading west Asian mixture is what introduced all of the dark hair and all of the similar genes seen in the green map. This was very apparent in Greece and Rome. And yes, this civilisation started outside of Europe.
I never said that they were the aristocrats of Rome or Greece, but the mixed people of these lands after the ancient invasions which built their own empire based on the invaders were to become the aristocrats of their own civilisation.
This happens all the time in history, people get invaded and learn off their invaders and then many become an even bigger empire. Rome fell also and the British which they once invaded in turn became the most powerful empire in the world.
Jace Nelson
Ahh yes, the classic argument of Varg Vikernes that is constantly thrown about by his fanboys: if you do not have pure Nordic features, you have nonwhite admix even though DNA tests show that you are 100% right.
Still waiting for supporting evidence. Still waiting for it to be more than a hypothesis. I won't hold my breath.
Chase Evans
Corded ware reconstructions (70% Yamnaya, 30% farmers from Eastern Europe)
I think you mean "100% white". Also no ancestry test can show you that, I don't think you understand how the ancestry DNA tests work. To find out if you are mostly from original white European stock you have to have a full autosomal DNA analysis on all chromosomes.
Then you can determine how much mixture from outside groups exists within relatively modern times from the point that these groups existed. We find predictably that only the people of northern Europe are mostly original Europeans with tiny mixture, where as most other Europeans elsewhere in Europe are quite mixed with outside groups.
You are offended by that fact that outer reaching Europeans are all mixed with outside groups, and that invasions of ancient Europe occurred. You are offended that certain traits within certain regions of Europe have been heavily influenced by such mixture.
Now you are having an emotional reaction. Poor darling.
Carson Miller
Eupedia maps are outdated, have pointless admixtures and crap in every other ways.
Tyler Hall
someone doesn't like being called out on his bullshit( I know you are a shill anyway) pro-tip: eastern Siberia, where ANE originates, is by definition not Europe either nobody in Europe is the same as 5000BC inhabitants of their area
Nathan Cooper
stopped reading there.
Elijah Price
Balts obviously have CHG through Yamnaya related people maybe they don't have excess one compared to that, that's true
Genetiker's admixture says that they are EHG not Yamnaya.
Nathaniel Smith
(((We))) I am sure you are not, but what about the others ?
Logan Phillips
All you have done is 8 posts off butthurt and denial of science, sorry but all peoples in all regions around the world are mixed with groups closer to them.
You don't step from Greece to Turkey and beyond and suddenly change race. The heavy west Asian component within southern Europe is well documented in regards to genetic mutations. Sorry, also Sicilians are blatantly part African in their DNA.
Spanish people also have some African modern Admixture. Sorry that this all triggers you so much honey.
Dylan Sanders
Sorry that you are triggered, but only northern Europeans are unmixed with outside groups, or at least have very minimal mixture. So many mixed mutts exist in the alt-right though, many in America as well. So it triggers you silly guys to realise how mixed southern Europeans are and even some eastern Europeans etc.
< There is the typical American white nationalist who tells himself he is white, but his fuzzy haired ass blatantly is part black and they proved it on a show after doing his DNA test. He couldn't accept it though (just as many in the alt-right who are mixed mutts and far from northern Europeans genetically also can't accept what they are).
The users on here are not nordic/northern European ethnic people. They are triggered Amerimutts and some Brits etc.
They don't want to have to accept their massive west Asian DNA mixture. They are as delusional as the Indians also, who don't want to accept that they are made up of a variety of things and that there is no such thing as an Indian race (talking about Indians from Asia BTW).
Anthony Campbell
take the admixture software with a grain of salt, the clusters there may be grouping more ancestries at that specific k=14(also latest models are suggesting EHG had something CHG-like already), it's barely even being used anymore academically, and without knowing the error of the model it's hard to make comparisons anyway, it's mostly used to give a broad overview the f3 I posted clearly shows some non trivial CHG affinity
Samuel Reyes
What a hogwash. Greece civilization already existed when there was no word about "Persia"
This again is one of this ludicrous D&C threads we are flooded with.
Chase Davis
It is. European people have not mixed with each other (significantly) since bronze age. Except there has been increase of Asian DNA in Eastern Europe. Scandinavians are just as much as CHG as North-Western Europeans. These maps are wrong as they have used the data without knowing what it is
You don't know that they model CHG as basal + ANE? Admixture does not mean ANYTHING unless it is used in right way. For example pic related suggests jewish admixture among Europeans, which is wrong.
Also admixture "X" years ago means not the same as admixture today. You can model western Europeans as eastern Europeans + Basques. However their phenotypes will not be western Europeans because there has been selection for X traits in Western Europe which was differemt in Eastern Europeans and Basques.
Henry Baker
yes, and? not sure where you are getting admixture has to be interpreted, and it's raw numbers taken with a grain of salt, since people who understand even the basics of science understand that any model is useless without knowing the error produced by it, the admixture clustering algorithm will always converge, not necessarily to anything good though; that pic you posted is not saying Europeans are mixed with jews, that's how a clown like OP may interpret it, what it is telling you is that Europeans have a signal of ancestry from some source whose closest modern proxy is in iran/georgia knowing something about ancient DNA then tells you this is probably a signal of CHG/iran_neolithic related ancestry arrived through different paths, in north Europe essentially via Yamnaya, in south Europe both via yamnaya and neolithic/bronze age movements linked with Y-DNA J2
It isn't a coincidence that the y-haplogroup also from Persian people shows the same trend. This is because invasions into other peoples lands typically involve males breeding with the resident female population of the area.
Heavy mixture all throughout southern Europe. It should be noted that the Persian people didn't directly mix with the British and other Europeans of western Europe. That was the Romans who did that who carried the Persian DNA heavily after they were mixed themselves.
this is why you are a joke Y-DNA J2 and "west asian" ancestry were already in SE Europe in the bronze age(Minoans, Mycenaeans, Croatia) data from ancient DNA from Italy coming in few months suggests Iran-related ancestry was present already even in the neolithic, something that had been detected in a Greek neolithic sample as well even Ötzi the iceman had some west asian ancestry in fact, at this point it's clear this ancestry began even before steppe ancestry at least in Greece and Italy
Sample I4331, bronze age Croatia, ~1700-1500BC, Y-DNA: J2b2a - Eurogenes k15: 8.9% west asian ancestry, closest single population: north Italians - Eurogenes k13: 8.45% west asian ancestry, closest single population: north Italians
Kayden King
Sami/Siberian type DNA only makes up 1.5% of northern European peoples DNA. With the exception of Finland, where it makes up to as much as 5% of their DNA makeup. The Finnish are the exception here though, other northern Europeans outside of Scandinavia typically have none, such as the people of Lithuania.
It's very small, it isn't comparable for example to Italian and Greek people being 20%+ in west Asian DNA.
Jacob Phillips
It's fine. It's the negro admixture which is a problem. There are some in southern Europe because of Islamic universalism and its recognition of negroes as equals. It transforms North africans into the monsters they are today. And nobody can deny that they left a trace in the iberuc peninsula. Most Iberian are of great quality but as time goes on the genes are mixing more and more.
Andrew Jenkins
They are west Asians, you can't appropriate them. Sorry, they came about outside of Europe and they heavily added to the European gene pool in many ancient invasions.
Asher Peterson
Another triggered strawman, I never even mentioned the bronze age. Neither did the mixing event occur at one time, it occurred in countless waves over time. There was some in later eras as late as only 2500 years ago.
Of course invasions and mixing occurred even before recorded history.
Same can be said about ancient north Eurasian ancestry or caucasus ancestry or nganasan ancestry in north Europe, neither are originally European, both arrived later. Not even counting neolithic anatolian ancestry. Not appropriating anything, you are setting up a standard that no European can fulfill. You should compare ancestry based on time and geographic position. When you take into account all of Eurasian or African ancestry, overall, people with high neolithic_anatolian ancestry maximize distance from all other Eurasians, thus could be called "purer"
T085077 here is gedmatch kit of swede. You can test it out and it's relatives and you will get that they are 6% west asian on average. So are Russians. Only balts score less 1% west asians but about 3% on average. However they have change the data for oracle and low IQ eupedia monglers have used this as the real data.
Nolan Garcia
You can literally see Africa from the shores of Spain with your bare eyes. The Portuguese are quite mixed with African DNA.
John Hill
I'm black from the waist down
Isaac Long
You mentioned Persians as if they were the carriers of west asian ancestry and Y-DNA J2 that weren't otherwise present already, that's why I mentioned the bronze age. There ain't any particular evidence of significant historical increase of west asian ancestry in Greece or south Italy at the moment. The fact that both levant_neolithic and iran_neolithic/CHG ancestry is detected in SE Europe before history is proof enough that one needs to wait for more recent samples from those areas to assess it.
Ryan Sanchez
No one on here ever claimed the Swedish have much west Asian DNA, it's quite low. Moscow area Russians also have quite low western Asian admixture.
Though western Russians have more east Asian admixture than Swedish people. This is because the lands of Russia were once inhabited by native Siberians, which the white Russians took over and interbred with. Russian conquest of Siberian in the 16th century, though even 1000 years ago the smaller country of Kievan already had contact with Siberians and some mixing was likely, though most Siberians likely fled east more at the time.
The Sami people are not their own race or anything silly, they are merely and offshoot from the Siberian natives. They literally are directly connected to Siberia. The later Sami that were photographed though were all mixed already to some degree with Europeans. The original Sami far more likely looked like a typical Siberian person.
They are the carriers of it, and the origin of J2 is in western Asia. This is also why it's far more strongly within these populations than Europeans, this is because Europeans only have this to a moderate degree as they are mixed in with the west Asian people, from ancient invasions.
If you are truly trying to convince yourself that this haplogroup and the west Asian DNA originated within Europe, then you are one insecure and triggered kid. lol
Wyatt Evans
Iberians are definitely somewhat mixed with north Africans, but ancient data is demonstrating this mixture could be quite old. Some study coming this year claims they have found an individual with north african ancestry already in the bronze age. Another one found a pretty African mtDNA(L2a1) from prehistoric Andalusia. North african genetic structure is quite old, in any case, we are talking 10% tops in areas like Galicia/Portugal, most of the peninsula is around 6-7%, and this didn't stop them anyway from creating the first global Empires.
Xavier Evans
Eupedia admixture maps are wrong Swedes/Spanish/Russians have the same amount as British. You could create a better spreadsheet yourself.
Levi Foster
Why do the different branches of Jews cluster so well together, when they have evidently intermixed with the native populations of the places they've been living for the last centuries?
absolute nonsense, unless you are using these words without any actual historical and archeological meaning, as expected from illiterate clowns like yourself. There were no "Persians" 4000 years ago. There were west asians, Kura-Araxes culture, and so on.
if that's what you think I'm trying to say, then your IQ is much lower than I thought I'm simply saying some west asian input is part of what constitutes the prehistoric ethnogenesis of south Europeans. Just like ancient north Eurasian, CHG, nganasan, etc… ancestry is part of what makes north Europeans. Nothing really wrong about it. You are almost making it sound as if north Europeans are survivors from the paleolithic because they share a tiny bit more drift with cromagnons.
Kevin Martinez
And these maps are greately outdated and you and full of bullshit/meaningless admixture as they didn't have so many ancient samples back then
Matthew Peterson
All populations even without invasions will be mixed to some degree with populations adjacent to them, sorry that this triggers the insecure alt-right. Who want to imagine in their head ridiculous nonsense like a country border existing forever in history and being a racial barrier……lol.
The far southern Chinese are very similar genetically to Vietnamese people, Australian Aboriginals are similar genetically to Papua New Guinea natives, North eastern Chinese are very similar to Koreans, north eastern Indians have heavy east Asian mixture, north western Indians have heavy west Asian mixture. Southern Indians have a high affinitiy for the original Australoid type branch that lead to Andaman Islanders, Papua natives and Australian aboriginals (it's where they get their dark skin).
Horn of Africa people have some relation to middle eastern people etc etc. Sorry that this scares you guys.
Nathan James
Like a typical alt-right kid, all emotion and insecurity.
Let me guess honey, you also tell yourself that black men don't have larger penises on average? lol
really bad trolling attempt, you are way too obvious, work on it
Joshua Robinson
See
Poor darling, you remind me of Craig Cobb who was so triggered he couldn't even accept his own personal DNA results and decided that they were BS. lol
Isaiah Peterson
...
Joshua Jackson
Phenotype > Genotype. Also no one is alt-right here so fuck off to whatever forum you came from/reddit/cuckchan.
James Powell
you ain't getting better even with the meme arrows, sorry thanks for having provided the opportunity to make some things clear for those lurking the thread anyway
Julian Hernandez
yeah sure the brits became an empire as an direct consequence of being invaded by the romans. just a meager 1600 years in between, in which brits learned everything from the romans like building ships to sail the entire world, cannons, rifles, high seas navigation, advanced cartography, logistics for a world wide trade network and accounting. your a spouting nonsense my loquacious friend.
Juan Wright
jew
Matthew Roberts
another jew
Asher Walker
be offended, fucking jewish neanderthal hybrid abomination for now, better to be offended then to be anihlated
Brayden Lopez
Within such a close area geographically the genotype is the determining factor of the phenotype. The heavy west Asian admixture within southern Europeans heavily affects their phenotype.
It is possible to have the same phenotype with different genotypes, but this rarely occurs in close proximity. Phenotypic convergence can occur in distant populations with similar pressures. The Jomon of Japan which are closely related to eastern Siberians, yet have quite small noses and a lot of facial hair are one example. Which evolved independently from other groups in a secluded Island nation for 15,000+ years.
Xavier Thomas
WHG were fair haired and white skinned better answer where you failed day ago
John King
Please lurk before posting, unless this is intentional d&c in which case please get banned.
WHG/EHG/ANF (all similar) lived in Europe prior to the end of the last ice age. ENF peoples spread into Europe ~10kya PIE spread into Europe over ~3-4kya.
All Europeans are >40% enf, but enf is most heavily seen in southern Europe who can be 70-80% enf (or 100% in the case of Sardinia). It has nothing to do with "much arab rape babies" meme, except in a tiny part of the Balkans.
Northern euros look like northern euros because they have up to 40-50% PIE.
The standard European genome would be ~60-30-10 enf/pie/whg.
Matthew Robinson
The result of mongol & hun invasions into europe. Slavshits are already pozzed, that's why the eternal kike isn't interested in sending foreign invaders into eastern europe. The results of miscegenation are absolutely crystal clear: when races fall feudalism follows.
They weren't African black, but they were darker than modern Europeans, and had dark hair. They did have light eyes however.
This is all irrelevant d&c tho, as what matters is total genetic relatedness, not one or two cosmetic genes.
Jordan Evans
It would be "a" direct consequence.
Also no one said it was direct, it was indirect. Though the advancements that Roman society had on the English is well recorded, it was also why the Romans so easily invaded (the English at the time were very primitive compared to continental Europeans around southern Europe which was the heart of the Roman empire).
Just a few things the English got from their Roman conquerors. 1. Proper roads. 2. Writing system, numerical system. 3. Catholicism. 4. Proper plumbing and sanitation. 5. Most of the later British architecture. 6. Currency, the calendar.
Etc. The Romans transformed primitive England, even the English themselves admit this as part of their own history and the Italians as well confirm this. But go ahead and be a triggered crybaby and tell yourself history is wrong, just because you are triggered by it. Typical alt-right kid.
Jonathan Torres
some Scandinavians have closer phenotype with some Balts and Slavs than within each other but are closer by genotype Depigmentation of hair happened after mixing up CHG/WHG/EHG/EEF. Skin depigmentation was brought in EHG/EEF as WHGs were dark skinned mostly Most of ancient europeans were darker than modern ones who are mixtures of these people. Baltic Finns people are Siberian + Baltics but have lighter pigmentation
Jeremiah Brooks
Yes. J2 is Neanderthal hybrid haplogroup.
Carter Rivera
because neanderthal admix substrata
Leo White
You are putting the cart before the horse. Rome was built with war and tax loot, much of which came from Britain. If anything the British transformed Rome, not the other way around. Britain thrived despite the Roman parasites, not because of them.
Liam Thompson
And here we have the classic D&C thread, the evolution of "X isn't white" but wrapped up in a convenient semetic bow. "Hey goy, did you know there we're black vikings, also the cheddar man was black goy".
Ropes waiting faggot.
Camden Watson
Look at me, I'm the southern European now.
Andrew Perry
What's all this cry-baby and alt-right garbage? You are probably an idiot.
*we wuz mix'd* *lol borders do nuffin* *triggered*
Start telling me about how awesome the Africans are.
Caleb Lewis
You are clearly not a scientist… or at least a terrible one. You act like a pirate commandeering the ship of science. Get bent you agent of agitprop lol we got them alt-right boys in a panic Comrade Suck-My-Ballsov. Very few people actually care for the garbage show you've put on trying to make it seem like all the purist alt-right (what the fuck does that even mean – first time I've heard of it) are apes or some such shit. You are the actual racist you piece of shit and you're trying to hide behind science – much like that cock slab Karl Marrks or whatever the fuck his name was.
Hunter Cox
Just as important as race is language and therefore character sets used in these languages. Its no coincidence Semites rule the world and all the most widely used character sets derive from Aramaic and not the Hyperborean Vinca symbols which are much older than even Egyptian Hieroglyphs.
Poor crybabies on here don't even know basic history, and get severely triggered by it and launch into delusional mental gymnastics and flat out conspiracy theories to avoid accepting it. Poor darling, so emotional and triggered.
<
The Ottoman's ruled much of Europe, they were based in Turkey and were and still are Muslims to this day. And after invading Europe and conquering the Balkans they ended the remains of the eastern Roman empire. Much of Europe was owned by them and the genetic mixing large. Sorry kids, Europe is the bitch of outside empires historically. Keep being triggered by this, it just makes people laugh at how insecure you are.
It's predictable how they will try to cope from here.
I can already predict the comments, I know how their insecure alt-right brains work. lol
Sebastian Taylor
I have no idea what to believe in now OMG.
My ancient uncle impaled 20,000 of your Ottoman friends in a forest of death. He didn't do it because of some anti-refugee reason or because he believed in the anti-Soros propaganda he just fucking hated them for messing up his lawn.
Dude, what sort of sick, twisted raciest are you anyway?
Jace Ward
politics board
Nicholas Martin
'OMG, got you now! You'll never be able to get out of this, you're whole life will be shattered or some such shit.'
Listed maggot, when I wake up in the morning the first thing I think is how big a shit I'm going to make. The second thing I think of is coffee. I can tell the first thing you think of when you get up in the morning is race.
Samuel Gutierrez
Was your aunt Helen of Troy? kek
Carter Sullivan
You may be retarded. The only area where mixing was high was in Albania and Anatolia. Heh,ironic considering everyone was Europe's bitch at one point.
Elijah Clark
Even today the west Asian DNA Europeans have isn't enough, now they beg to be fully western Asian and are importing millions of Muslim men to fuck their women.
Exact response I predicted, an insecure kid insisting that the Ottomans were whites. This is the only thing left for them to do, either deny the history of what happened of tell themselves the Ottomans were whites and not west Asian Muslims. lol
Poor darlings.
Nathan Jackson
Well, if you want to be really accurate, and excuse me hijacking the lyrical masterpiece of Rammstein, 'we all now live in amerika.' Let's not kid ourselves with some delusion like fag OP, last time I checked Europeans ran that joint. Fuck, you have about 200,000 direct descendants of the Nazi's there. You literally have a German President (the most powerful man in the worlkd) and FLOTUS is a Slav.
Jacob Price
We killed natives in America and Australia and primitive parts of south east Asia, aren't we brave?
