"not real socialism"

Where is he wrong? Seriously trying to understand the socialist apology of "not real socialism". Where are they getting this from? How can we shut down this argument?

Other urls found in this thread:

voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik_revolution-5.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

You don't. It's an endless game of mental gymnastics and sophistry when they pull this so don't try to reason with it because there's none to be found. Attack and attack.

Attached: Logical Fallacy 17 - No True Scotsman[1].png (879x559, 281.7K)

...

Seven Sins
.
So tiresome.
Give everyone exactly the same, one eats cup o noodles for a few meals, goes on vacation to Tahiti, others mad he went to Tahiti and they did not, riot in the street.

Attached: ClipboardImage.png (500x619, 120.6K)

Because you cannot have any revolution without stamping on what they call reactionaries. For true Marxism to happen this all just fades away and you go off into the sunset, the State Socialism just ends in pure Communism. Except it could never work that way in any society maybe bar Denmark or somewhere if you kicked all immigrants out. But even then it would fail as paranoia set in and enemies had to be dealt with.

If you want to argue with socialists, you have to understand dialectics: thesis, antithesis, synthesis. If you control the thesis and the antithesis, you can control the result. True communism/socialism exists only as a hypothetical point to be offered as an antithesis to the current system's thesis, which makes their argument technically correct.
"Real Socialism" cannot exist until both the thesis and the antithesis are socialist, resulting in a socialist synthesis. Otherwise, you get some amalgamation of socialism mixed with czardom (e.g. soviet russia), capitalism (e.g. most "socialist" countries today), or you get National Socialism (which is definitely not real socialism as intelligentsia would define it).
In short, you do not shut down this argument: it is used so much because it is technically correct. If you want to shut a fucking communist up, ask him about why Marx supports central banking, or bring up some arguments presented by my nigger Antony Sutton, whose books are essentially all factually-verified redpills:
voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik_revolution-5.pdf
Socialists these days don't realize that the Soviet Union was essentially a corporate American deposition of the Czar: making them the ultimate useful idiots for the banks they supposedly hate. Socialism (except for Hitlerism) is literally just bank slavery, regardless of whether it is "real socialism" or not.

post "gurds" Spurdo meme plox

This

This sums it up pretty well: "if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again"

Attached: 46537472536.png (826x551, 398.87K)

What you have to realise is that modern leftists reject the idea of truth and it is synonymous with fascism for them. Therefore, they cannot be listened to, ever. If you wish to understand these people, you must analyse them yourself.

Fixed your bait question for you, OP. Was that so hard?

I appeal to the sincerity of the communist revolutionary heroes like Che Guevara. With real hard leftists you can also appeal to Lenin and other kikes. But I think everyone who isn't a total cuckservative mong can respect Che Guevara. The only way you can "discredit" him is to call him a meanie racist who called niggers stupid lazy chimps and shot degenerate faggots through the head. I assume we don't have to vindicate him on these issues here.

In any case: very sincere people put their lives on the line to establish real communism. They sacrificed more for it than any of these spoiled bourgeoisie champaign socialists ever did, and were far smarter than them. They wanted real communism enough to give their whole lives for it, and watched countless comrades fall for it.

If they couldn't put into practice 'real communism,' no champaign socialist ever could do better than them. There was no 'real socialism' because 'real socialism' turns out to be, despite best efforts, unworkable.

This is the noncucked way to detonate socialist apologia.

"true fascism has never been tried"

The problem with that was that it was and it worked so well it took the rest of the world united in desperate war to put down a small country the size of the US state of Montana.

Imagine if the modern USA went full natsoc. As it is about to.

By not being a fucking retard.

No attempt to "shut down this argument" can work, as it ignores the fact that you already made a huge mistake (by not listening to people with whom you are arguing). The only option here is to backtrack, correct this mistake, and then proceed forward with the other side being unable to use it.

The big secret - pay attention here - is that IRL there are no "socialists".

There are at least two major (and wildly different; they had been at each others throats for two centuries now) schools of thought that constitute "actual" Socialism (in the sense Socialism was initially used). And even within those schools of thought there is no unity. Which is why one socialist can - and will - say that the stuff the other socialist argues for is "not real socialism". Which is quite correct (for him), as what the first socialist suggests is not what the second socialist suggests.

The only solution here is to identify the actual movement the Socialist in question belongs to and then use appropriate arguments. If you do not, you'll end up looking like an idiot, as you'll be trying to push square peg into a round hole.


For example, in OP video Chomsky (who belongs to Anarchist group) claims that Soviet Union (which was created by Communists) was not real Socialism. What he actually means is not that USSR wasn't created by Communists, but that his position is that Communists aren't real Socialists since he wants people to recognize only Anarchists as "real Socialists".

And attempts to claim dishonesty - as does:
Will not work: Anarchists had been opposed to Soviet Union since forever.

Hence, proving that USSR was bad objectively can't affect Chomsky's position - it is an actual truth that he never argued for Communism (IIRC, Chomsky himself called Lenin a "Right-wing deviation" even when USSR was around) and didn't support USSR. You'll look like moron who tries to persuade Communists that gun control is bad (when they had been against it since before it became a thing - picrelated).

If you want to argue against Chomsky, you need to talk about Paris Commune, Bakunin/Kropotkin/Makhno, Anarchist Catalonia, and other Anarchist stuff. In fact, you can even use Marx, as he (being Communist) made quite a few arguments why Anarchism is retarded (which were sufficiently good to make Anarchist-dominated First International implode).


That said, you will get a solid evidence of Socialist arguing in bad faith if said Socialist is unwilling or unable to explain what kind of Socialism he subscribes to (or distorts Socialist ideas he supposedly subscribes to).

Attached: 37b859f8197b7f73eb13d6d7fc54673944adf2e3b8425de1ddaac9362b0936f2.jpg (1200x1200, 128.04K)

You can discredit him by pointing out how he got his rocks off by mutilating and killing children. He caused such a fuckstorm that the Soviets demanded he was disappeared for what a degenerate monster he was.

Attached: 2293200868f43681f470da312695b7dc211ee59d72256bd7ddf76f07d69d01eb.jpg (1675x1005, 136.17K)

Which children though? I mean were these again homosexual, jewish or that children of his enemies? We have to be careful when someone says that they are going to kill niggers and then they do it, you can't come back around and say 'muh children', because they too will grow into adults. This same conversation could be leveled against anyone who had to deal with child soldiers and anyone who wanted to ethnically cleanse a region. You don't think we are going to 'spare the offspring' of our enemies when it comes time to ethnically cleanse our nation, do you? They won't spare ours (thinking of that little boy who was boiled alive in the Boer murders). Killing children is part and parcel of ETHNIC CLEANSING. If you didn't or don't think you can do it you might want to throw in the towel and head over to the globalist camp. Because FOR SURE they are going to be using child soldiers as well…even children can understand that if they don't kill you, you will kill them.

Attached: ISIS-child-soldiers-ap.jpg (1024x669 74.94 KB, 50.12K)

I almost want to make another OP about the viability and correctness of killing children in wartime situations or during ethnic cleansing…this seems like something that people might have a 'hangup' about.

Attached: Le Kek.jpg (579x492, 86.36K)

Technically its
1. Very easy to detect what is not a real socialism. Not real socialism is society with parasites who didn't work .According to Marxism only peasant and factory worker produce added value. Dear leader, party bureaucrats, police, army don't. But all "socialist" states got loads of such parasites.

2. Easy solution for creation of real socialism. EVERYONE MUST WORK. REAL LABOR. At factory or in the field and do other things (law enforcement, management, engineering, science and art etc etc ) after. Not even Great Leader should be exception. Able bodied socialists should only receive reward for factory or peasant labor. No work no food. Not able bodied should get welfare for humanitarian reasons but treated as hopeless cripples, again no place in the politics (including election voice), logistics, military or art.

Attached: 412342.jpeg (1200x876, 234.1K)

They sell the trek fantasy of free everything because magic boxes provide it all but the reality is there's goyim in the boxes making the shit.

There is 'European goyim' in the boxes making the shit. lol FTFY.

Its just like Judaism.

This is literally never said.
Fascists actually look up to Hitler for the very reasons that he was successful at restoring his nation to a first world country status.
He was so successful that it took the entirety of world Jewry, the entire Anglosphere (and its colonies) and the Soviet Union to defeat one little country that is about half the size of Texas, and it's handful of allies.

That no other country has tried a similar model since then is what's astounding to me. Like him or hate him, Hitler and the National Socialists accomplished a fucking miracle. That's the example neoFascists point to in the modern era, because is such a powerful argument (which is also why they had to smear it into the dirt with the "muh 6 gorillion" and tag it as "the worst evil ever").

Attached: Screenshot_2019-03-06-13-11-10-1.png (1108x2309, 1.01M)

Nazis were pretty real, as were Scandinavian nations until it turned out that making women's lives comfy makes them all go insane.

They found same thing happens to rats. They took a bunch of rats and gave them "rat heaven" but pretty soon lots of rats turned gay or started killing their own babies.

I'm guessing White men don't normally go insane once put in "heaven on earth" because their intellect always finds some "mission".

Women on the other hand, are wired to be mothers so if that role is not an option they look for things to mother, either cats or savages.

Noam is a pathetic and senile Jew. After 9/11 and anyone with a brain could see it was Noam's buddies in Israel that did it, Noam said we should "waste time and energy" trying to find out who did 9/11, but it was "probably a jealous Mafia husband". IMO that is the lamest Jewish misdirection attempt on 9/11, and there have been some lame ones.

Normally, he is very against US Govt and America in general, like all Jews, except when it comes to how Israel is melded to our Deep State, when he waxes all warm and fuzzy about "close cooperation".

< I can has into confirmation bias
There is "real socialism". There is no agreement on how to get there. Which is not uncommon for any aspect of human society.

I've never heard this story, and in the words of Moonman "Nigger babies, I don't give a fuck."

Socialism has been a religion since at least 1930. You don't argue with religions; you lay waste to their lands.

Attached: Ambition.jpg (800x938, 218.57K)

Yup, when a woman feels too secure she starts to look at other options at your expense. She forgets her place and thinks yours is only to lift her up to the next pedestal where another helpful gentleman can do the same.

Attached: This.gif (300x186, 481.68K)

What about the Asian "Tiger economies"?

Bitter man. Can't even focus on the thread.

Attached: Leadership Course.jpg (500x378, 54.88K)

Silence, whore. Ask your husband to explain what we're talking about if you must, but you have no place here.

You misspelled "rat Gulag".

Attached: 5354.jpg (640x426, 63.65K)

Tiger Asian didn't stared war on anyone to steal their lands and enslave them.

Attached: 75467456.jpg (1200x774, 190.61K)

Bug Asian is more apt.

Checked. Tasty.

Attached: num num.jpg (700x1050, 83.91K)

This kinda reminds me of our (((public education system))) current superannuated obsession with the next "New Program", which is sorta like the old "there is always next season". All their efforts to change Blacks and Mexicans into nice White kids with some New Program fail, but rather than ask why, or even "Open the Books" to new teachers, its always a New Program in the offing (no doubt pumped out by same crowd that did the last one, but under diff corp name).

Those programs aren't for the niggers and beaners. They are for the white teachers to fool them into thinking they are doing some good or trying to make proper changes to keep them in the system shoveling propaganda. Without all the idiot white teachers in the system playing their part it would all fall apart due to sheer numbers.
t. former educator

This is a National Socialist board you dumbfuck lolbergs and philosemitic vermin. Capitalists get the bullet too.

Impressive…

Attached: 1407197734408.png (495x365, 448.96K)

So, it's the Nazism that is the "real Socialism"?

Attached: jesus christ.jpg (159x225, 9.48K)

Shut up faggots. What have you done for European lately? Other than pull a paycheck from the Federal Government (which doesn't count).

Seriously, if every white in an education related field took holiday and went on strike, it would collapse. The best they could hope for is hiring a bunch of shitskins to babysit but there would be no funds for that. White parents would yank their kids. Boons would begin chimping that they keeds staying home would cut into their corner-posting with a 40 time.

Yes.

Attached: Hitler on Socialism.jpg (540x638 129.09 KB, 316.03K)

I never understand why people though that experiment was rat heaven. That is like saying New York is 'people heaven'. Basically Mouse Utopia was a experiment which explanation of what happens when you put mammals in cities not 'heaven'.

It's simple
IF = {
Non-Socialist points out flaws in socialism using = { Historical Examples}
Initiate-Response = { "That wasn't REAL socialism" }
}
End Script

Homage to Catalonia was a book that pretty much convinced me any form of leftism is not made to work but only to ruin.


This.

Then the answer to the "Not real socialism" question is because the jews wouldn't let him do it.

You don't. You go to the founding materials of Marxism and you read all of its founding prophets until you realize Marxism's true "argument" is "Might makes right." All the rhetoric, bombast, gymnastics, academics, etc. is just a halfway point for distracting and diffusing counter extremist movements until Marxism can complete its true philosophy by taking over the State's power by force. Therefore, the only true proper counter "argument" is to have at least as much of a callous disregard for the life and opinions of your opposition as the Marxists do for your life and opinions, thereby not allowing the Marxist's verbal arguments to reach the point where the Marxist tries to stick you into his circular trap of sophistry.

I would be willing to try this but not without a purge of parasites (homos, subhumans, kikes and other assorted parasites like the rich).

You know now that I am thinking about it. THE USA IS LITERALLY THE ONLY PLACE ON EARTH that could do this an not be slaughtered because we are the largest private army on Earth. To bad Hilter didn't see that the USA was the only nation that could ever manage Nat Soc.

I guess this is why they are flooding us with so many parasites so rapidly. Something to think about.

The hit TV series "Hogan's Heroes" remains the accurate source of info on WW2, The Holocaust and Economy of the 3th Reich for today's college students.

Its most pervasive theme is grinding wartime scarcity. Hogan bargains with Col Klink over getting his men an extra 1/2 slice of bread PER WEEK in exchange for work detail. Pantyhose and cigs are highly coveted items even for Nazi officers.

My Jewish edited Economics text book says "Hitler remained popular in WW2 by invading countries, murdering the people and stealing their wealth." LOL, IIRC all private civilian sales of motor fuel stopped in early 1941, and all new production of just about anything for civilians ended in 1942.

Orwell was hired by the Jews, but last part of HTC seems to be all about the evils of Jewish Left Wing (but of course he avoids that).
Struck me as kinda funny that Orwell is this rabid anti-fascist, but also ranting about horrible conditions of workers(and cronic homeless) in UK, when Nazis had just made the only great improvements in plight of common workers.
He seems to have a personal hatred of the whole Fascist thing, which I kinda get, but Orwell himself was apologetically a pretty serious COLONIAL cop dealing harshly with natives as well as anyone.

Always gets me how few people realize that Hitler cared for the common man and worker's rights, as well as disproportionate/unearned financial inequality.

Noam said we should NOT "waste time and energy" trying to find out who did 9/11
ftfy
THIS
Scathingly accurate description user.

Checked. He was likely being backhandedly honest when he mentioned the mafia. He simply committed the sin of omission by not mentioning it was the jew mafia.

thx for the ftfy reach around.

Here is full quote and sauce in case anyone thinks I'm joking. IIRC the "conspiracy theories" brought up were more hinting at Israel than anything you'd see in USA MSM. And no, he didn't then deign to tell us exactly what "serious issues" were more important sending million troops and trillions of dollars to fight a war due to blaming the WRONG GROUP for an attack on USA.

"Even if [9/11 conspiracy theories] were true, which is extremely unlikely, who cares? It doesn't have any significance. It's a little bit like the huge energy that's put out on trying to figure out who killed John F. Kennedy. Who knows? And who cares? Plenty of people get killed all the time, why does it matter that one of them happened to be John F. Kennedy? If there was some reason to believe that there was a high level conspiracy, it might be interesting. But the evidence against that is just overwhelming. And after that, if it happened to be a jealous husband, or the mafia, or someone else, what difference does it make? It's just taking energy away from serious issues onto ones that don't matter. And I think the same is true here; it's my personal opinion."

Q&A at the Kossuth Club, in Budapest, Hungary, May 16, 2004 [82].

Those fucking jews are the worst. They don't even seek forgiveness rather than permission they just shrug and say too late now. Pic related. That kosher slaughter scene was the worst. The complete don't give a fuck attitude and the whole no point getting mad now goyim, it's done. Shoulda woulda coulda.

This is why you can't wait for them to make their move.

Whoops forgot the pic.

Attached: Drive_Movie_07.png (551x421, 136.69K)

Quality posts.

You are most welcome

I watched the interview with the full quote shortly after he gave it and it was then that I realized he was a full on rat bastard fuck faced faggot.
Who did not want anyone to figure out what happened, which is exactly the same as with JFK.
Anyone who would persue this line of thought needs purification.

It is interesting for Chomsky to use that meme as he himself is an Anarcho-Syndicalist, and not by any means a Socialist. However, the "Not Real Socialism" meme does seem very much like the "No True Scottsman", there are many things that are considered "socialist" but aren't, and there are many things that aren't considered "socialist" but should be.

For the former, it is often considered "socialist" to have anything from Publicly-owned79 Utilities to Publicly-owned Parks (for some), and with the later the US Postal Service is not considered socialist (it is), Social Security and other benefits (they are), and even the existence of the FDA, FCC, and the Controlled Substance Act

I like to compare JFK & 9/11 to the Susan Smith case.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith
What has been scrubbed from Wiki is after she claimed "a black man" carjacked her and her kids, the local cops did arrest a Nigger, whom I guessing was well known to them as the sort of Nigger likely to pull such a stunt, who they knew had gotten away with lots of shit, and the cops were pulling all their trips trying to get him to confess. But at the end of the day, the local cops hate actual child murders more than they hate worthless Niggers, even if the child murders are White mothers with clean records, and the only thing the cops hate more than anything is being "used", so they are always on the look out for anything that don't add up.

All good Americans are natural Holocaust Deniers. Standard cop show or detective story plot is: horrible crime is found, with distraught "survivors" who are full of juicy details, and the case is slam dunk and its obvious who the guilty party is…but there is just a couple of things that seem a little too pat, and a few questions that are oddly avoided by otherwise eager witnesses, but the detective is getting nothing but pressure from above to "wrap it up", then slowly but surely it all starts to unravel until its completely flipped.

It's only "real socialism" to parasites when they don't have to work, and take shit without having to pay for it. And they can fuck other people's children openly without having the police called on them.

Attached: cathat-wasn-t-real-will-be-thrown-trom-my-autogyro-12900559.png (500x397, 126.3K)

...