Socialist Calculation Problem

What's the natsoc response?
Or does the natsoc define "socialist" in a way other than state ownership of the means of production?

In essence: the argument says only the profit-loss calculation found in the market economy can adequately meet the needs of the population. A central planner, besides the fact that he or his agency is corruptible, cannot possibly consider all the variables that determine what value everything holds.

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Independent markets need to exist. The problem with capitalism is not the search for profit. Its croniness and traitorous people not being executed for betraying their positions as public officials.

Socialism as it is was defined differently in NatSoc policy, since they rejected Marx. Mises is 100% correct in his assertions, but he never advocated for enforcement of the law against borderless capitalism breaking native societies apart. NatSoc bridges this problem somewhat, but it can lead to the same corruption problems if constant vigilance by a strong leadership is not enforced. Hence capitalism as it is becomes corruptible by state forces mingling in the market for the sake of perpetuation of cliques hellbent on destroying people to make a profit.

Yes, l i t e r a l l y yes.

Mises institute people seem to have the best intellectual case against crony capitalism by advocating for the removal of state power to make the "cronies", why wouldn't a natsoc america face the same problem of corrupted bureaucracy?


What's the natsoc definition as clarified against mises' working definition? Isn't it the case that socialism from the beginning of the 20th century meant "state ownership of the means of production"?

What's the natsoc definition of "socialist" or "socialism"?
You need to do some basic reading if you can't answer that.

So what's the answer?

The answer is: Read a book nigger.
You're trying to debate something with zero information. You might as well fuck off and watch CNABFOX.
National Socialist Program

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That would be the Nation, user.


Start here:
bitchute.com/video/Ld8fxzEXZ2Qz/
Its worth it.

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This

Honestly guys I really would like to see just a succinct definition of socialism in the nazi framework, especially if from an original source. I am not here to instigate anything.

The 25 point program lists:
Which needs interpretation. What does "associated industries" pertain to, is it about the war industry of the previous point?

Its worth it to listen. Unless you just came to argue? see this:

I'm listening and I've gone through this same doc before

And?

And I'm not finding a direct answer to the question of socialism to the NSDAP
It is a great presentation against the boogeyman strawmen usually used to attack nazi germany but the scope is much broader than my question

Fuck off. Libertarian philosophy exists solely to get the goyim to lose faith in their leaders, so jews can reign instead.

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These four go through all the 25 points. Listen at your leisure.

radioaryan.com/2017/09/truth-will-out-radio-why-alt-right.html

radioaryan.com/2017/09/truth-will-out-radio-why-alt-right_29.html

radioaryan.com/2017/10/truth-will-out-radio-why-alt-right.html

radioaryan.com/2017/10/truth-will-out-radio-why-alt-right_20.html

>>/cuckchan/

Reported for nigger-tier bread.

Oh good, lowjew is chumming the board.

Fuck off with your Jew economist.

As should be expected, natsoc larpers can't give a basic explanation of their system, because it's based entirely in zeal for preservation of the race and not in compelling economic arguments. Here's a revelation: you can have a fascist ethnostate and still have a market economy.

What makes you think we wouldn’t permit that within the limitations specified, user?

Not him, but that's at the root of my question
Is austrian economics reconcile-able with natl socialism? The socialist title is deceiving, among free marketers and among leftists separately.

What does socialism mean in national socialism?

Nationalism is socialism. Individuals working together for the betterment of the collective defines both words.

Ok, and how is "working together for the betterment of the collective" defined?

The response is Look at what a mess America is.

If you actually knew anything about libertarianism you'd realize what you posted doesn't actually support your position. See Hoppe's argument on monarchy, he actually sees a liberal democratic society as a step down from monarchy.

Actual fascist governments have been hit hard by corrupt market actors ripping them off for profit. Heavy scapegoating and constant loyalism obscures actual bad actors terribly well. Fascism vs corruption is basically like teaching prey animals to roll over and belly-present to butchers.

Remember, loyalists always take bribes.

ITT: nu-Zig Forums can't even defend the most basic political and economic tenets of NatSoc when challenged.
If any of you could of employ basic reasoning instead of sperging out about "lolbergs" for half a second you might learn something about your own position.

In the context of a single nation, socialism always leads to impoverishment because it enriches a minority by redistribution of wealth from productive to the unproductive. This is inevitable, and well demonstrated by the history of communism.
National Socialism can be thought of working in a similar fashion, but the beneficiary, rather than being a corrupt ruling class, is a race-nation. If anyone wants a more thorough explanation of the actual economics, read Hoppe.

America benefited from a first-class education system which it threw away to rabid niggers. Capitalism was not what made it great as proven beyond reasonable doubt by the Supreme Court's decisions to give more rights to corporations while making Christianity illegal and destroying the school system to the point where all intelligent citizens have to be imported.

boring talking points

The emergence of NatSoc makes public services like welfare weakens the general public over time. Hitler used much of the public reaction in Germany to politics that were harmful to the people. As a whole, if any other politician would use traditional conservative leanings and reject the Versailles Treaty, he would never have risen to power. You would have a generation of Germans with strong nationalist pride but after that a generation disconnected with the plight of the previous ones. Its happened multiple times in history, but no one can claim that would happen for sure in a theoretical NatSoc Germany post-ww2 or NatSoc USA.

The state cannot earn nor interfere more than a tenth of a nation's economy. Any more than that it starts to lead into tyranny. Socialism adheres to the notion the state needs to interfere in every man's life. The fact is, it shouldn't, unless absolutely necessary. And the boundaries are not fixed, so you have a constant demand of more tax and more gov't by the socialists to feed into a bureaucractic tyranny. NatSoc is not a solution to this problem, but rather a short-term problem solver. Hitler needes to simply reinstate the Monarchy, re-create the German Empire with its traditional borders and work a solution with Poland in regards to Pomerania. Hitler as the second coming of Bismarck would be perfect for Germany, but he instead insisted on pushing too hard.

Why even "when absolutely necessary" should the state intrude?

Duh?

Allow private property and the free market to reign. Kill Jews and others who do non-subjective harm to the people. Problem solved.

No you worthless heeb. The free market optimizes for profit. It will do this at the expense of health, morals, and anything other than money. The free market is shit, it exists for kikes to destroy whites.

There is no greater mechanism for raising the standard of living than the free market system, empirically.

Profit is the excess exchange people will fork over for goods. You'll get more supply where the profit is and that will control market prices without the need for (((central planning))) which is just an excuse to create government power to control the people. An example being that there is no market for TV with niggers and faggots everywhere, but because all the TV studios and government owned media are controlled by kikes they can push that shit and get away with it because the government covers their costs with subsidies.

There's a huge demand for alternatives to Facebook and Reddit. How's the market doing meeting that demand? lol.

Right. That's why we can't even get food that isn't poison. Why our houses, furniture, clothing, etc is full of xenoestrogens. Why are water is full of not just xenoestrogens, but actual estrogen. The free market is right now driving down wages by importing foreigners, LOWERING our standard of living. You heebs just conflate free market with increased standard of living because the standard of living increased under sort of free sometimes markets. But you ignore the counter evidence, and ignore the fact that correlation is not causation.

You just proved yourself wrong. Media is entirely kike owned and almost none of it gets government subsidy. The free market has decided jews should form an oligarchy, keep out competitors, and brainwash the goyim into self-destruction. Hooray for the free market!

They're doing just fine, are you suggesting that government facebook and government reddit are ugrently needed, and that my tax money needs to fund them?

I buy fluoride free water by the 5 gallon jug for $1.30. It's the state that is poisoning us, not the market.

Thats the state

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Capitalism hasn't really been implemented correctly in the U.S.

National Socialism is Socialism hiding under the guise of Capitalism, the free market never existed. As the shop-owners were told what to buy what to sell, at what price to sell it to and who to sell it to. That is a planned socialist economy.

Fuck off

No you don't. You buy tap water because you are a fucking idiot and don't realize its just tap water. And I didn't say anything about fluoride, I said estrogen. Its in the ground water, in rivers, lakes, etc.

No, the state is simply not forbidding it. It is allowing the free market to decide.

Yes, yes rabbi, it wasn't real communism either right?

It really costs nothing to repeat lies.

Then why does the US and its international coterie of jew-controlled nations work so tirelessly to undermine socialist countries with sanctions, blockades, coups, and invasions? They'll just collapse on their own, right?

Perhaps because idiots like you will fall for the false dichotomy of left wing jew vs right wing jew.
"right wing" jews won the cold war, so it's democracy and iphones goyim, just accept it.

I suggest they read this passage in Interventionism: An Economic Analysis:

“Thus the market in the capitalist economy is the process regulating production and consumption. It is the nerve-center of the capitalist system. Through it the orders of the consumers are transmitted to the producers, and the smooth functioning of the economic system is secured thereby. The market prices establish themselves at the level which equates demand and supply. When, other things being equal, more goods are brought to the market, prices fall; when, other things being equal, demand increases, prices rise.

One thing more must be noted. If within a society based on private ownership of the means of production some of these means are publicly owned and operated, this still does not make for a mixed system which would combine socialism and private property. As long as only certain individual enterprises are publicly owned, the remaining being privately owned, the characteristics of the market economy which determine economic activity remain essentially unimpaired. The publicly owned enterprises, too, as buyers of raw materials, semi-finished goods, and labor, and as sellers of goods and services, must fit into the mechanism of the market economy; they are subject to the same laws of the market. In order to maintain their position they, too, have to strive after profits or at least to avoid losses.” (Mises 1998: 5)

It is quite surprising how much Mises was prepared to concede: an economy with some limited nationalised industry (although run on the principle of profit and loss) where the majority of capital goods are private owned is still a “market economy” with its fundamental characteristics “essentially unimpaired.”

That is a view far from ravings of many internet Austrians.

Mises, L. von. 1998 [1940]. Interventionism: An Economic Analysis (trans. Thomas Francis McManus and Heinrich Bund). Foundation for Economic Education, Inc., Irvington-on-Hudson, NY.

Theoretical capitalism is just as beautiful as theoretical communism. All that equilibrium nonsense creates warm fuzzy feelings. The reality is that demand for an innovative product is unpredictable. The system needs people who take risks. And we know jews like shifting that risk to other people's savings accounts when they lose. There is no way to police this shifting of risk just in time. Therefore America is the garbage country that it is.

The argument can be extended into other areas:
In the world we live in knowledge and resources are not centralized That's why it makes no sense to have a centralized economy, centralized governments, centralized networks, etc.

Why socialist need to trade with capitalists? Do you know that worker making contract with capitalists is exploitation of the worker? Socialist countries must stop all economic contacts by themselves. instead they trip over themselves to exploit their workers and sell their natural resources to capitalistic for unfair non labor based market price and whine when they are denied.

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State defines rules of the border crossing and set rules about legality of shooting immigrants.
"Not forbiding" is Pontius Pilatus washing hands.

Dear lord you are a faggot.

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Ctrl + F: ". "


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If the state forbid it then it wouldn't be a free market now would it? All you lolberg heebs would be up in arms about the state interfering in the free market.

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When if shooting spics would be legal it would be free immigration market. When?

Then what's this?

What 'definition' are you looking for, specifically?

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I can articulate it just fine - I'm tired of you Marxist subversive shitbags spewing your filth all over the board across multiple IPs because our mods are piss-poor at their job and/or in on it, you slimey philosemitic loser. ;D

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FACT.
Natsoc larpers have no economic program.

FACT: Marxist subversives can't answer simple questions.

What losers. ;D

Then articulate it. What is marxist about spaces?

The rhetoric associated with them, my nigga. ;D

You're going to need to be a little more forthcoming and a lot less jewish.

The mechanism is white nationalism. That's how you achieve it.

Purposefully obtuse. You're the one attack NatSoc my man, because you're a Marxist subversive.

Yeah, wow, I'm super jewish for pointing you out as a marxist subversive whose been shilling the board aggressively.
Cool story bro.
Here's another story.

Its fun exposing things. ;D

Oh, and let me go ahead and cut that one off:

So, you actually think 30% of the population of the web is one person? Which inbred kike brain disease caused that one? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing

What is the economic program of white nationalism?
"Kill all shitsksins that step on your land" is political program. Fun fact: it can coexist with capitalism.

Maybe heavy special tax for foreigners? This sounds economic. Ooops, this is Muslim economic program.

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No, I think you are, and I said as much.

Its funny, I guess you'll call me 'paranoid', but I never noticed this double-spacing thing on the board in any significant degree; but, ever since the mod-purge of November 2018, I've seen it in damn near every thread, and its seemingly nigh-ALWAYS associated with Marxist subversive narratives, pushing the same shit in different ways across the board.
I mean shit son, I've posted images demonstrating that this posting style is specifically associated with an user who is spamming the board regularly and clearly, without question, hopping IPs and using Tor to do so.

One of their favorite targets? National Socialism. Its the primary target, it would seem, as a matter of fact.
And here you are, with one hand promoting, with the other denigrating. You're not very good at doing this organically. Even the roach was less obvious.

Not paranoid, just a retarded child. washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/

You should take your own advice about being less jewish bro.

No you are not talking about me. You are talking about me and everyone else on the entire board who grew up with a typewriter. You are a retard, nobody cares what you think about spaces, spaces are not marxist.

Damn, this thread is a mess.
In Natsoc, the "socialism" part just means to care for and look after your community (which is your race/ethnic group). This means that the government's primary role is taking care of the race that built and inhabits the country. This also applies to the economy, as it must not harm the race in any way and should serve the race's interests. Meaning, you may have to put controls on the upper class, so that they don't succumb to egoism.

So Mises BTFOed the Nazi larpers before their grandparents were even born? Fuck man, why am I hanging around you pedo niggers when I could be hanging with Mises? To think, the coming disasters were predictable if you read Mises back then. Fuck. Fucking goddamn. God you're all so fucking retarded. Why am I here? In the grand scheme it's literally deadly to play with you niggers.

platitudes

A vegan might say "veganism means loving nature" which doesn't help define anything

So "socialism" in the sense that Scandinavia is socialist today, just a generous state welfare program and high regulation, but still a market economy?
Is this affirmed anywhere in Nazi literature? Socialism at the time meant (as it still rightly means today) government ownership of the means of production.

come to >>>/liberty/ my newly enlightened friend

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In what way do Scandinavian countries enact policies to protect their native race? Maybe Denmark if only a little and barely. But certainly not Sweden which wants to let in millions of niggers into the country for the benefit of Jews who want cheap labour and voting herd so they can stay in power.

They don't presently, I only mean as far as the definition of "socialism" goes as presented by the other user it seems analogous.

Crony capitalism is the right wing equivalent of "it wasn't real communism".

Read a book, nigger!

Pretty much. Though, the social welfare programs should aim to give people a chance to prove themselves as oppose to subsidizing dependent individuals.
Different natsocs will give you different answers. Gottfried Feder was in favor of state-owned enterprises.
Hitler viewed economics as secondary to racial matters. He, then privatized several industries with the demand that they must be regulated

So welfare for your kin? Its just jewish (insert your favorite nation) nepotism capitalism.

Yes. For those who are honestly in need of temporary help.
How so? One won't get a completely free pass, because he belongs to the same race. If someone is of bad character, they won't succeed in a NatSoc society.

I know everything about libertarianism, newfag. I was one for years. And Hoppe's placement of Monarchy above of the current system says nothing about what libertarianism is. How do you even think that's a rebuttal?

>You don't know what A is because so-and-so likes S more than "F"
That's how stupid what you said is. Kys, dumbass.

that's a false definition of socialism, pushed in the 1930'sish out of fear
the dead definition is a competitive network of co-ops
workers own the co-ops
co-ops compete with other co-ops
best co-op gets fat bonuses for all
worst go broke , and scavenged for talent/ capital/assets( machinery, land, ect.)
end game is still a collapse due to over production/fight for markets, but in the end more people have wealth
Nat soc is different still
today's "socialism" is wealfareism"