Mfw anti-tankies

Is there anything more pathetic and childish than the average Zig Forumser? They are averse to discipline, authority and all forms of organization against capitalism; they see the state as an eternal evil and stray far from the scientific teachings of Marx. They lash out at socialist success and prosperity, dubbing it “fascism” or “authoritarian”, never having a true success or victory of their own. The Zig Forumser will never see victory because his methods are faulty, his ideology founded on a bastardization of Marxism and Leftism which readily imbues all forms of imperialist propaganda about socialism

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Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3013.pdf
jstor.org/stable/40704728
archive.is/20121219202843/http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/yosha/yr/nationality/DPRK_nationality_law.html
dailytimes.com.pk/363047/chinese-re-education-myths-and-realities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
twitter.com/infinitechan/status/1038498825026064385
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Engels described this a long time ago.
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm

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Imagine being an American teenager LARPing this hard on a shitty imageboard over some mediocre ethno-state that you've never visited or had any connection with.

The average tankie.

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Many make this mistake but I’m not dedicated enough to roleplay as multiple people

Imagine being this butthurt about us telling you to go back to the larper board >>>/juche/ where we contain retarded petite-bourgeois like yourself.

Marx and Engels not Juche and retard Dengism.

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You should consider the teachings of Kim Il Sung in regard to what you think is a criticism:

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Again the nationalism and rejection of class warfare, both are bourgeois fascist ideological traits.


He thinks marxism isn't a materialist ideology and he doesn't understand the marxist definition of ideology. I guess Marx was a vulgar materialist then.


Ideology is apparently about finding the correct religion now, just follow Jesus Christ, wait I mean Kim Il Sung.

Just become a fascist already.

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Only one ignorant of Juche would claim that it rejects class-struggle or is “fascist” in any way. The “nationalism” of the DPRK is nothing beyond common socialist patriotism, only a liberal would think that the DPRK adheres to any kind of right-wing exclusionary or expansionist nationalism.
Kim Jong Il, the great elaborator of Juche and Songun thought wrote an entire work called “Socialism is a Science” where he discusses ideas of materialism as well as Marxism in general
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3013.pdf
I’m further from fascism than you, red-lib

The only red-lib here is you dengist cocksucker.

Now BACK TO >>>/juche/

Anarchkiddies can’t handle their safe-space being breached. This is a Juche board now

How do we encourage MLs from the other /lp/ into migrating here to own the leftcom wreckers?

There’s already talk about this board in their Zig Forums thread plus another explicitly talking about Jucheposting here so some may come on their own accord

Waiting for it in my armchair.

Whether or not it is labeled 'progressive', nationalist ideology is based on the notion that the employers and the workers have class interests in common. But within the inherently exploitive wage-system, exploiters and producers have no class interests in common: Buyers do not have interests in common with sellers when they come to the marketplace for commodities. Anti-colonialist nationalism has been and is the struggle of nascent ruling classes to cement their sovereign rule over the producing classes of workers and peasants through the establishment of a political State. While the establishment of a capitalist political State may liberate the bourgeois from domination by monarchists or faraway colonial ruling classes, it does nothing, in terms of promoting the emancipation of the workers from wage-slavery.

shut up tankie

Not sure what you're on about OP, most of this board is incelbols and other Jim Profit fans and that can only be a good thing. There are barely any left communists, anarchists, or communalists here.

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a thread died for this

Tankies are no different from capitalists. They are merely the virtue signalling version of communists. Tankies and nazbolfaggots get the bullet too.

Ammunition factories in the hand of tankies and nazbol in the past and in the present: many
Ammunition factories in the hand of narkiddies: zero
But of course they can always resort to papa Porky for gibs.

Since I became an anarchist 2 years ago I quit all drugs (coffee, cigarettes, alcohol, hashish, marijuana and everything else). I also quit porn and started working out and going for long walks while listen to audio books.

It's very fucking lonely being an anarchist that isn't a lazy piece of shit. Thank God other anarchists are waking up to the fact that the main problem with anarchism is "anarchists".

PDF files are relevant if you are an anarchist who is not a lifestylist / SJW piece of shit.

Attached: One_for_the_Resistance_Oppression_Anarchism_and_Alcohol.pdf (

I genuinely and unironically think that people who believe in re-education camps and censorship deserve to be doused in gasoline and burned alive.

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The problem with anarchism, as with all nominally socialist sects, is the failure to meet the proletariat where they actually are. We can either end up like the tankwads by revolting vicariously through actors removed by time and distance, or we can organize with our class when and where we are to build class power and abolish capitalism.

That's a valid point. Clean living, however, is not an end in itself. It was a necessary starting point for me in order to start leaving the house and start interacting with other people and activists. My capacity to read books and memorize data also greatly improved. I try to talk to anarcho-syndicalists sects around here (Portugal and Spain) but boy oh boy are they a bunch of politically correct petit-bourgeois niggers who can't hold a project for more than 2-3 years without disbanding. I'm still an anarchist at heart but I'm reading World Socialist Web Site and Libcom.org more and more. So I guess I'm becoming a libertarian marxist of sorts. I just hate that so many of these so-called "libertarians" (anarchists) are lazy and undisciplined and it pisses me off because I hate authoritarians and bootlickers so fucking much. A part of me is also becoming anti-human anti-civ post-left anarchist. But I'm not sure I wanna go the /doomer/ road just yet. Mostly because I know it's an edgy position that doesn't represent any threat to capitalist structures.

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I only said "clean living" because you said it, what I really meant was "sobriety". I'm not a vegan cyclist and so on..

When an ideology revolves around its subjects being as correct as possible, the only possibly is a spiral of correctness until breaking point, to then start all over again. This is why the anarchist communes all collapsed within a few years, while quite a lot started by wishy-washy like-peace-and-love-dude hippie communes are still around today.

Anarchism doesn't revolve around its subjects being as correct as possible. It's about workers' self-management, no hierarchy, libertarian values and so on. But many anarchists act in the precise way that makes police and rules necessary. It's like they're so fucking retarded they don't get that they themselves become the poster child for everything that's wrong with anarchism.

And you're right about your typical PC college "anarchists". They are, literally, liberals who like to dress in black. It's funny how these anti-conformists all look alike and defend the government AND corporations.

But there are some good anarchists out there. But the main problem with anarchism, historically and nowadays, is the lack of organization and that is a sin too great to look over. So much so that the only semi-success anarchism had (and it's often misrepresented as more of a success that it really was) was the CNT-FAI in Spain, which was an organized union. That will not repeat itself. And frankly, your talk about "the proletariat" is losing relevance by the day. Many workers are self-employed and own employees themselves and workers who own shares in the companies they work for, etc. So that line that historically divided the owners from the workers is getting a bit blurred and the tendency is for that blurriness to intensify. Also with robots and automation shit is becoming too complex for 19th century ideologies. There has to be an alternative.

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Shit… *ruleRs

i see nothing wrong with this

You're not incorrect in stating that workers' self-management, no hierarchy, libertarian values etc etc are the staple of anarchist texts, this is however not what I meant with revolves around. To go back to my example of the anarchist communes; they were highly authoritarian, paranoid, constantly testing its members for their proper knowledge of this or that precise meaning of such or so Proudhon citation, berating women for not being free enough in their giving of free love, subjecting its members to self-criticism sessions in which they were publicly humiliated.. all while nominally doing their utmost to reach the aforementioned workers' self-management and no hierarchy.

The most straight-forward explanation of this failure is to say that they weren't correct anarchists, that they just didn't get it. It is that very line of thinking that lead to their failure, as it approaches anarchist ideology as something that manifests its promised fantasy as material reality when its adherents act and understand it in a correct enough manner, it can never fail, it can only ever be failed by the lackings of its adherents or by outside intervention. Here it negates itself , the principles of anarchy are undermined when the truth of the principles is emphasized to reconcile the failings resulting from said principles being taken as ideological truths, the spiral of correctness I mentioned. (exemplary case: when the police practically retreated from the anarchist neighborhood in Athens, the anarchists who found themselves unable to deal with the crime and drug issues without becoming the baddies themselves, now see this retreat they long fought for as a police operation against anarchism).

If there is to be an an alternative, it has to be one of total change in form, one that lets go of the principles of teachers, texts and disciplines. Something hinted at in radical democracy, something that can accept its own ignorance, antagonisms and contradictions.

Why are 90% of tankies on the internet, ecpecially twitter woke LGBT POC?

Because 90% of tankies are tankies because of stuff like red alert and gulag memes. They're unironic red Gang weeders.

They've stupidly embraced ML bullshit as a way to trigger all the other burgers. That's literally it, a surface-level edgy LARP to piss off their conservative normie relatives or whatever. Communism doesn't need more stupid edgelords we have enough.

Bruh, they literally banned racemixing

Same guy is advocating eugenics in another thread:

Nice lies. Is your source the “Cleanest Race”? One just needs to go look at their nationality laws to see that they don’t restrict based on race in this one domain, not to mention white North Koreans such as the Dresnok family

Article 6
jstor.org/stable/40704728

Ever considered that maybe the shit the DPRK writes in english to appeal to larpy tanks like you has nothing to do with the shit they put out that is actually in Korean?

Also, Joe Dresnok's third wife was the daughter of a Korean woman and a Togolese diplomat

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One singular group of non-koreans in the DPRK doesn't prove shit, its like saying Ben Shapiro can't be racist because he's a jew. Again you keep taking everything they say completely uncritically and failing to realize that useful idiots like you are walking around parroting the rhetoric of a failed state that has been discernibly capitalist since the 1990s.

This is now an anti-tank meme thread.

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That's good for you and I have a similar lifestyle, but it is ultimately a lifestyle and we don't want to end up the inverse of the flabby druggies who believe getting high and dumpster diving is fighting the system.
My dude that's going to be every left sect and those that aren't are nostalgic grandpas. It's part of the left's existence as a loose group of activist organizations, rather than a class movement.
Libcom.org is an anarchist, or at least half anarchist. site fam.
Yes it sucks, but most of the proletariat is going to be like that because it's what we are shaped into being by society.

Is this not true of every ideology? Such as the leninist states striving for socialism by crushing proletarian organization or the liberal republics violating liberal principles to keep capitalism running smoothly.
While framing anarchist ideology as something that is infallible or anarchism is something that materializes when anarchists become enlightened is bad and does happen too much, certainly we can look at some failures as being incorrect understanding of ideology and reality? Such as Kroptokin betraying internationalism when he endorsed Russia in WW1 or when the communes you mentioned failed instituted a new hierarchy.
I don't see why, in that this implies everything would be completely scrapped to start over anew. Certainly the anarchists and their projects should be ruthlessly criticized and examined, but I don't see any contradiction between this and retaining anarchist principles/stances such as abolition of hierarchy or struggle against capital. Perhaps it is an uncharitable read from being tired and midnight posting, but this seems to be similar to those who claim we need to abandon Marx(ism) because social democracy and the leninist states turned out poorly.

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glorious

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I've always been here and I'm always willing to leftcoms, but they don't want to debate stuff. As far as debates go, it usually ends up with the ultra posting some Libcom link or WordPress blog, to which I respond, and then they just fuck off.

You don't need an infiltration of this board anyway, as the few honest anarchists and leftcoms are vastly outnumbered by NazBols, pedos, etc. these days. The Juche posting is a bit of a LARPish meme, but considering they can't even BTFO Kim il-Sung quotes, it might as well be justified.

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always willing to debate*

For which you need to prove that the buying and selling of labour power exists in the DPRK. Otherwise you are just sloganeering.
Usually the national bourgeoisie/petit bourgeoisie do actually have a common interest with the working class to throw colonialists, imperialists and the comprador bourgeoisie out (or the aristocracy if we talk about feudalism like in Ethopia under Haile Sallassie, who ironically got praised by some fringe leftcoms) as far as national liberation goes. The same way the Russian working class had a common interests with the Kadets to depose the Tsar in February 1917, or you can go back to 1848 with Marx supporting the German nationalist struggle against the particularistic German nobility.

What ensues however is further class struggle. It is entirely possible that the national bourgeoisie And emerging petit bourgeoisie wins over the working class, but the opposite can also be true. Groundwork for this is usually found in the constitution of the national liberation movement, in Russia for example communists were always the staunchest supporters of peace, land and bread. In Korea the resistance against Japan was educated in the USSR, and was highly under the influence of the USSR, so the petit bourgeoisie never really managed to escape the heel of the DotP during the Korean "NEP", their first "3-year-plan",(which caused Hoxha to throw a fit) until collectivisation was carried out until the late 60s.

As Mao said, we need to thoroughly investigate each and every situation individually to come to a conclusion about the class character of something, and not engage in dogmatism.

Where is the actual proof that they advocate racism and carry out racist policies in the first place? The author of the book The Cleanest Race has to resort to mistranslating the word minjok as "race" rather than "nation", and retarded speculation about the hidden meaning of propaganda posters.
If "race mixing" is banned, if honestly doubt they would allow a Togolese diplomat to have a daughter with a Korean woman, then allow their daughter to marry and have a son with an American defector. These aren't the only non-Koreans either. When some Zainichi (resident of Japan) Koreans moved to the DPRK in the 60s and 70s, they brought Japanese spouses with them.
Putting out different content in Korean compared to English would be a dumb policy which would be exposed quickly. Here are unofficial English and Japanese translations of the nationality law from the original Korean:
archive.is/20121219202843/http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/yosha/yr/nationality/DPRK_nationality_law.html

No they don't "literally ban race-mixing". I don't know what's more shocking, that you are dumb enough to believe this or that this type of sensationalist shit still makes it into the serious MSM without any fact-checking.

J Barg forgive me but mutt detected

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Western "leftism", not even once.

Dengism not even once

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 tbh

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The reduction in poverty in China could just be attributed to capitalist development though. I don't think China is especially "evil" per say I just think they are a advanced capitalist state.

Such idealism. Juche confirmed for revisionism.

There's literally documentation of their market economy, you can walk into a mall in North Korea just like any other capitalist shithole on earth.

God the irony in this statement.


they can't even BTFO bible quotes

wew lad the Uyghurs and Tibetans would like to have a word with you. This is your brain on Dengism.

Is pic related a capitalist hellscape or true socialist korea? please tell me how having shitty 90s shopping malls is part of the socialist programme.

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First lefty meme that made me laugh, congrats.

Thank you antidengist for always reveal yourself who you really are very soon in the discussion

you should fuck off

...

not an argument


make me

Because I can walk into a store means labour power is commodified? Are you one of these liberal retards that think if you eat a burger it makes you capitalist?


I don't know how your disagreement with their store design makes a mode of production socialist or capitalist.


I haven't read up on the Tibetian slave-owners, but the Uyghur story is obviously bullshit.
dailytimes.com.pk/363047/chinese-re-education-myths-and-realities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

From the same book, page 43, Kim Jong Il is quoted as saying:

Zig Forums is already banned in China according to site admin.
twitter.com/infinitechan/status/1038498825026064385

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What exactly do you think the function of a mall is?

t. boomer

Is this lad lying then?

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That people have access to goods?

t. dengoid

Read gothakritque you illiterate anti-materialist

Gothakritik says that you can't have shopping centres?

Ah yes, the "de.generacy" of leftists

Imagine thinking all the products/institutions of bourgeois society will just be replicated but with some vague lip service to socialism and then pretending like that's what real socialism is. What you're describing is something born out of the womb of capitalism that still bears its stamp.


You guys damage the reputation of the socialist camp with this blatant hypocrisy.

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I'm not talking about lip service. I'm talking about the fact that the DPRK has a dominant socialist mode of production. Selling stuff in stores does not constitute capitalism or socialism. People want stuff. I'd rather see the DPRK to have more malls and less peasant's markets.
The reason they import stuff is because a small country can't produce everything on its own. This should be obvious. As for the aesthetics signs of consumerism, there is not advertisement in the DPRK, streets are clean of ads, posters or other capitalist stuff.

Are those the guys who sperg out about the trannies or the ones who defend rapists?

How socialist is the Kim clan exploiting labour value to pay for their palaces and luxury lifestyle/

How do you know the labour of a KPA soldier working on a building is commodified?

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How else does the Kim clan have their palaces, luxury lifestyle and luxury imports?

...

Why do you avoid answering the question?

Because you frame the question dishonestly. You imply that all surplus allocated in the DPRK takes on the value form like in capitalism. Obviously surplus will always be allocated away from the worker in a percentage even under socialism, to feed the old people for example for example.

Instead of asking whether or not a capitalist mode of production is dominant in the DPRK you just imply the fact that Kim Jong-un smokes expensive cigarettes is proof that there is no socialism in the DPRK. It's no zero sum game either. North Koreans wouldn't be better of off Kim would eat rice every day and wear Old Navy.

So what we have is country sized company town from which no one is allowed to leave, where the people live in poverty while the elite gets to live in luxury on the backs of their labour.

How is this supposed to contrast positively with capitalist economies in which workers actually get paid?

If you compare the living standard of a higher up WPK official to a worker it's much less than the difference between Jeff Bezos and a cashier in capitalism. Actually North Korean government officials are forced to work one week in the fields or in factories.

Because if you compare the DPRK to a country with the same level of development, the DPRK provides a better quality of life. There is still no unemployment or homelessness which you can find in the richest capitalist economies. Education and health are so decent for a developing country.

Clearly the solution to capitalism is that we need slightly less inequality between the elites and the proles

How can you be such a retard?
Provisional govt parliament/Founding Assembly are NOT the Soviets, and the Bolsheviks did have majority across pretty much all functioning Soviets at the time of Revolution and dispersion of Assembly.

As for the parliament, the election did not even meet the standards of 20th century Bourguise "democracy", due to, well, people voting being not a general public of any sort.

Any sort of somewhat prominent anarchistic powers were organized and supplied by the communists. If we remove that, all we have on the Anarchist side would be some utopian university professors that did not see a real worker even once in their lives, hippy communes and small labour unions.

While everyone being equally poor might be the objective definition of scientific socialism that still begs the question; why is the fat pig at the top so much more more equal than the other animals? Why are his imports of vodka prioritized over those that benefit the north korean people?
There was no unemployment or homelessness in auschwitz. Your reasoning is a brilliant display of the kafkaesque nature of bolshevism, every lacking is re-signified as an achievement; when all are starving, it is equality, when all are forced into chattel slavery, it is the abolition of unemployment, when all are imprisoned, the abolition of homelessness.

You're also completely emerged in the managerial capitalist ideology, reducing every matter to one of figures of statistics; this is the ideology that was used to justify the imprisonment of vagabonds and native tribes; after all, don't the statistics clearly say that way were better off when their barracks had clean running water?

They may let their Wu Mao through the Great Firewall, and this might hurt their goodboy points enough that they fuck off to a softer target. Even if it doesn't, it accomplishes the opposite of what their masters want, and draws the attention of uninvolved parties to their misdeeds. I don't expect it to be a silver bullet, just to attrite them some.

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both

what if i told you there were tendencies outside of stalinism and anarchism

I'm not even an anarchist but you need to read more instead of dismissing broad swaths of left wing theory with one sentence. You're not really thinking very critically, that's why you come off as being ultra-dogmatic like a religious fundamentalist.

I even took the time to read your Juche .pdfs but that only reinforced my distaste.

deng was right, the ultraleft can't meme

/thread.

gr8 meme m8 11/10 top kek

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nice meme ultraleftist deviant

How is illiteracy treating you?