The American Third-Position has been suffering a massive leadership crisis since Dr. William Luther Pierce died...

The American Third-Position has been suffering a massive leadership crisis since Dr. William Luther Pierce died. I feel that, baring some Chosen One appearing from obscurity, there are two groups where good leaders can be found: the business sector and the military. If someone thinks they'd be a good leader then I highly recommend they join the military to better understand functioning as a unit. Officer and Enlisted are both fine, but if given the choice: go officer. Businessmen carry with them their own advantages. They have money and connections.

Zig Forums's main problem is hobbyism. So few people have the mindset that it is their duty to fight for their race, and die for it if necessary. So many people go into architecture threads and feel nostalgic over something they never experienced, but they don't study architecture on their own. So few people seem to understand that they can impose the Mythic Aryan Ideal upon reality; that the very existence of good men will naturally bring that dream world closer to ours. This runs counter to the modern conservative notion that "The world would be such a better place if I were in charge. It's all the average IQ idiots keeping us down." That one man is enough. Remember Napoleon? When he escaped from exile, an army was sent to arrest him. When confronted by these soldiers, Napoleon held out his arms and proclaimed "Go ahead. Shoot your Emperor"… Napoleon would go on to lead that same army into Paris to reclaim his throne.

There should never be questions over "Who gets to be King?" in our movement, because our movement's fundamental goal is to make every man worthy of a crown. (To me, leadership is a burden. I would simply like a nice house in the countryside, but duty and Fate have conscripted me.) We are a movement of Heroes that have seen nothing but defeat for thousands of years. We remember the bitter, bitter defeat of 1945. Millions of good, young men - killed. Millions of sweet, innocent women - young mothers even - raped by Slavs, and killed if they resisted. The shattering of a Golden Age of all fields: arts, science, philosophy, religion, politics. Still in spite of such a harrowing image of a hell on Earth, hundreds of thousands have pulled the Army Standards out from the ruins and formed a New Legion to once again challenge the forces of decay,

It is imperative to recognize the Heroic nature of this movement. It is, and must be one based on quality men, not a quantity of men. I urge every one of you to think about you life. Think about your skills. Plan. Plan how you would carry the world on your shoulders, and bring back that Golden Age, even if not a single other person on Earth agreed with you. That is the ultimate goal. Don't let anything stop you. You may be an idealist, but you shoulder be a grounded idealist. You should know that defeat is possible, and you won't win just because you are "in the right." Let realpolitik push you forwards, but determine what "forwards" actually is with your ever-dreaming heart. Be a Hero.

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The problem is that the kind of people who most want to be leader of any sort of movement are 99% of the time the kind of people who should be nowhere near a leadership position. Additionally, the way the modern west is set up, everybody else is too busy wageslaving to have any real time to dedicate to a movement.

Kings are important. This question should not be over over over over undewesdimaded.
Wish we still had this thread that dealt with Royalty and National Socialism. Fucking stellar thread. Sure not pig thought about archiving it, as usual. ; _ ;

Larping as a white kek. What a failure.

We will execute jew spammers. Keep trying moishe. We are Aryan superhumans and we can beat back your pathetic attempts at dnc a million times.

Pierce was a teacher, not a leader and that is what we need instead. A good teacher makes the students autonomous, or independent of him which gives them the freedom (and the responsibility) to peruse what is most needed.

Leaders create a centralized command structure, whose faults are numerous it you take out the top there's chaos, and at the bottom absolute subordination denies a man's ability to think on his own two feet, it breaks him. The alternative, is to have independent fighters (students) collaborate as needed towards their common goals. While at this local level leadership is natural, it is much more decentralized and because every collaborator was previously independent, leadership is also fluid or interchangeable.

This faggot.
WE are doing shit in real life every day, AND SUCCEEDING!
This is the sole reason you spend your desperate, sleepless, drug addled nights, here, locked in with US, and losing your shit day in, and day out.
If you actually believed a single shred of your bullshit, you wouldn't even be here.
No, nigger faggot, you are deathly afraid of the impending future.
You should be.
Many of us already know who you are. Who you hang with. Where you lay your head.
It's only a matter of time now.
The unquestionable moment is rapidly approaching. You know this.
Sleep well.

That's adorable.


ism and ist words don't make any sense it would just be european national. jews subverted the definitions in 1901

This is the right attitude. Whites excelled because of the need for knowledge and spreading knowledge. A common term I've seen used is self-sufficiency. Whites and simultaneously the easiest to redpill among them are the ones constantly seeking out ways to become self-sufficient. It's the jewish structure of control that robs not just the means but the legal ability to be self-sufficient - making others dependent on the state to live.

this thread, the larping

It's brilliant, isn't it?

I can tell by your word choice that you've listened to a great deal of Dissident Voices. I like you, my man.

Another wise person. This is a good thread.

In a subversive sort of way. In a healthy society, men didn't work solely for their paycheck. They worked to provide in a material sense. The farmer sowed his crops not so he could have them carted off to a chain of supermarkets, but so he could eat. When labor and the fruits thereof were localized to that area, it built the bonds of society. A man could plausibly trade one thing for another, a goat in exchange to having his chimney swept out by his neighbor. Relationships were strengthened because labor wasn't relegated to a faceless job-related task. When you sold your stock at the market, you knew the people who bought it. The real criminal brilliance by the jews was the anonymization of the work force. When you're only working for your paycheck, you don't actually care if the data entry department is outsource to Pooloo, India. Better them than you, right? And you might get a Christmas bonus out of the cost-cutting! You can finally take your fat wife and kids who hate you to Cabo on a vacation, so you can do $12 shots and ogle the college girls in their g-strings.
I despise society.

The anarchists (of the capitalist variety), lolbergs, centrists, and so on are right in one regard from that subversive Frankfurt school, the individual rises. I've always felt this to be true. Where they're wrong is to what the individual aspires to and what the individual works toward. The individual is to aspire to becoming the new man, the uebermensch, and they will all work together toward the future, the golden age, the continual improvement of the race, reupholding the natural order. The individuals become a collective of Hitlers, one could say, in my opinion.

good bread. have a bump.

Indeed. The most diobolically brilliant thing in this jewish System is how they have atomized everyone. OP points out our lack of leadership and this is in large part due to our inability to work together for any common cause. Indeed, we barely even know our neighbors, how could we hope to form our own autonimous cells with which to resist this monstrous System?

Only if the individuals hold each other accountable. That's all society is,really. Individuals holding each other accountable. When individuals stop doing that, you end up with a fractal and atomized dog-eat-dog world like the one we now live in. Who cares about the pot holes in the roads, they sell edibles at the gas station! Who cares about opioid deaths, Game of Thrones is on! And it continues ad nauseam until one day you wake up and realize that maybe trading tradition for taco trucks wasn't such a hot idea.
There's nothing wrong with individualism, so long as it sits beneath the collective on the decision-making hierarchy.

Amazing, a thread with 2014 quality. I miss old Zig Forums.

We need to be Warrior Poets. A million individuals fighting individual battles (mental and physical) but all for a common cause. We need to read, we need to lift, we need to educate the common man, then we need to wake up the next morning and do it all over again. It's how the hippies won. They thought globally but acted locally.

Tbh, I don't see society, even civilization, remaining a concept in the future. Institutions are strong in one regard, but they've been a perpetual weakness against the current threat. I imagine the Hitler collective (kek) changes form at will and any number of institutions will only be reactions or aspirations of the race and will dissolve beyond their use. I don't know if leaders will be a part of the future if uebermensch quality is achieved, only a part of the total Hitler (top kek) that is shaped into an icon of leadership as needed.

This metaphor is getting out of hand, I'll leave my speculative thoughts at this.

Keep in mind that Hitler was a common man who was just trying to get by until the first World War. Just a regular blue-collar worker would woke up to the truth and tried to change his nation's path from one of utter destruction to its ultimate destiny. Some Ultrarich White Guy or out-of-touch Military General, neither of these are the way.

NOPE. I'd pick an enlisted man every single time. An officer is indoctrinated into his role far more than the enlisted man is. An enlisted man can believe the lies until the rounds start cracking past his head and he hears his friends screaming for his mother. Then the truth reasserts itself, and the lies he was taught will never find purchase in his heart again. An officer does not. An officer hears the screams of his men, and immediately rationalizes them as necessary sacrifices. In his mind the lie is more important.

t. Sangin Veteran

STFU and do it yourself, faggot.

Wish I was here before Trump, just wanted to say that. I'll go back to lurking now. (Got here 2016 I think)

I stand by my previous statement that an officer, by default, has more leadership skills than an enlisted man. Though, an infantryman who chose to keep marching forwards despite being under fire is much more deserving of rank and honor than a paper-pushing officer that didn't even leave the country. But the officers, the good ones at least, they are nice to have around. Luddendorf worked with the young, small NSDAP during the Putsch. George Wallace's running mate held the highest rank possible in the Air Force. Rockwell was a Commander. (People often overlook this fact, but it's something that made people take him a lot more seriously.) Some of them can just naturally improve whatever organization they're in just by existing. Hitler even looks to the German military as the role-model for his new "race-based state" in Mein Kampf.

I should also mention that my OP was originally a reply to a thread encouraging people to join the military that got deleted. I changed it a bit and made it its own thread for some reason. That's also why it seems a bit unclear whether the point is about leadership or about Heroism, since the opening paragraph was intended to explicitly introduce the topic, while the rest is more subtle in its relationship to leadership.

Trump is a good example of quality vs quantity. On one hand, there is regret over the damage done to Zig Forums by the election. On the other hand, it was a massive success. Millions of people now know about Zig Forums and its ideas. This entire generation of young, White men has been influenced in some way by Zig Forums. Countless people have been pulled into outright Fascism thanks to getting red-pilled during the election, and that gave a major boost to the Far-Right and Third-Position. Unfortunately, it came at a Promethean cost, and Zig Forums eternally suffers from this action. I think a lot of people are unprepared for the realities of mass-movements. They aren't aware of how "dirty" they would feel if they ever lead a NatSoc party to power. But that's how it is, I suppose. The men without power can cast judgement freely, since they have no actions to judge. But the men with power quickly understand that you will always "step on someone's toes," even if you're doing the right thing.

If this seems frustrating, it shouldn't be. The Aryan way has always been to take a loss, a death, and somehow make that a victory.

One problem is that, even if this perfect leader emerged, a thousand voices would instantly pull out any logic or illogic possible to find some supposedly questionable relation, assert the new leader is Jewish, a Mossad Agent, a glow-in-the-dark, a shill, etc. etc. etc. It's good not to be gullible and fall into honeypots, it's not good to call anything and anyone a honeypot just because it's easier to feign intelligence through auto-distrust than to sort out the real figures from the Hal Turners. What man would want to stand up for his race, and lead, in an age where the majority of his potential supporters would spend ten more times shit talking him than our racial enemies? The old quotation about leading the right being like herding cats comes to mind. This is particularly true in America, given the history of individualism. There's a reason that Germany, far more oriented to cooperation and conformity, produced a Hitler. Can't have a leader when no one's willing to follow because the entirety of the planet besides themselves are MKULTRA or COINTELPRO operatives or whatever the fuck the groundless claim is. The endless "you're a kike," "no, you are," "said the kike," "projecting again, kike?" conversations on here are a pretty good indicator of why we're in such disunity. Even in Pierce's time, there was plenty of intra-movement drama with Covington and others, making wild accusations, grubbing over scarce money, plus the occasional actual informer that gives some justification to the right's ubiquitous paranoia.

user, the instrument in realizing our goals are ourselves, like you and me, but in order to be successful we first must improve ourselves. As it's said "think before you act" we must first know what to think, and this comes from dialogue within (introspection) and confrontation with others. By lurking like you are doing (or like I used to) you do a disservice to your mind because you may have developed some ideas, but retard your skills of communicating and defending them from others. Zig Forums became great because it was the best place to do this and the posts did not write themselves. The value of a board comes from the good posters and if they all were silent then there would be nothing good here. So, don't go back to lurking, let's learn from each other, be active.

Thing is how do we get a leader when you have the internet calling it glow in the dark despite that particular person having good intentions?

A leader needs information to make decisions, and this travels upwards from the local level through informants. After a decision is made, then the order travels back down to the subordinates at the local level. A leader from high above will never have the intimacy and knowledge of the local situation from where the battle is being fought, especially a revolution. Therefore why do we need a leader, if those at the local level can make the decisions for themselves?

No he doesn't. An officer spends the first 4 years of his career blundering through the military framework and making decisions through nothing but an artificially-inflated sense of elan that was stuffed into his skull at OCS. I know, because I've had to work with them. An enlisted man with a proclivity towards leadership hones his skill set in training exercises, then later on the battlefield. He has no one artificially inflating his leadership skills. He is either leadership material, and will move upwards among the NCO and SNCO ranks, or he has none and will get out of the organization to use his GI bill. The officer's role is to consult his senior enlisted members of staff, listen to their opinions and recommendations, then decide upon a course of action based upon their COA's that time and experience have dictated they take. That's it. The officer exists to be the bottom line. He's the hero if the operation goes well, and the villain if it doesn't. The brains behind his decision-making methodology has always been the enlisted man. That's why a Sergeant Major can tell a Captain to go fuck himself to his face. Because the real experience and leadership lies with him. The Captain is just collateral for if the op goes south.

One final thought: If you really want to know who the actual combat decision-makers are, it's the NCO's on the ground for the small-scale, and the Infantry Gunners in the COC for the large-scale. At least for the Marines. As far as the Army goes, I'm not too sure.

No such thing, you have the right hand of satan party, the left hand of satan party, which together make up >95% of the great satan.
The rest are little toes and horns of satan

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The Ideology that I subscribe to (that I made up) is National Capitalism. Under NatCap the nation is a family. The Father is obviously the government. The child is, equally as obvious, the people. Then who is the Mother? Who does the people mostly interact with and get their resources from? Corporations. An abusive husband would never let his wife do anything with out his permission. A cucked husband just lets his wife do what ever she wants. A strong and caring husband disciplines his wife when she steps out of line, but the wife is not suffocated with rules.
Under NatCap there would be no corporate tax rate. In staid a company would have a Corporate tax rate applied to them for misbehavior. What this will do is force Companies who subvert the nation to go bankrupt or learn their lesson while out preforming their commentators. If you think that isn't enough the individuals responsible could go to jail.
The world this system would create is one where there could exist benevolent monopolies. This does sound Utopian. However unlike all other Utopian ideologies, NatCap can still function just fine if the utopia is not created. (this is ofcourse all with in the context of america becoming a white ethnostate)

TL;DR non-autistic Austrian economics.

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There are no leaders, just there are no girls on the internet.
Any "leader" who arises will simply die mysteriously.

>(((benevolent monopolies)))

Well, kikes have wet dreams, too…

First person here real anons to get elected president gets to be Hitler 2.0

look into distributism, you might like it

austrian economic autism is the good kind of economic autism, jews just perverted it, as they do with anything they touch. Your not the first kiddo.

So do you consider jews white? Or is just convenient for them to be white at this moment because you are a fucking kike.

never said I invented it. and I said non-autistic.

I suppose I will if its the same thing

Stop projecting, kike. Corporations in the current setup are the cancer that are destroying white middle class families. And you actually want to (((accelerate))) that process by handing them over more economic leverage by creating (((benevolent))) monopolies.

No monopoly is ever benevolent, in most cases it is a mean to artificially increase profit for a happy (((few))) at the expense of the vast majority. This is insanity and I can only hope it explodes in your face.

Yea no fucking shit corporations are jewed. In a world we’re all the kikes are dead companies would still exist faggot.
You are fucking retarded

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Check'd dubs.

This is another prime example of starting great and then falling off the rails super hard. Why not just make everyone in the world fit for a crown? Go take your horse to the old town road and ride till you can't no more. Emphasizing personal responsibility is great. Why not extend that to everyone?

Glad you started making more sense. What good is a teacher if they are teaching poison?

Then why do so many of you people strive to join the army. If you really wanted to be self sufficient you wouldnt leech of taxpayer money for the rest of your lives. Joining the military is life long state dependency.

You have you heard of next door? Knowing your neighbors has never been easier. You know why you are atomized? Because you only talk to people like yourself. Apps like meetup provide endless things to do. Hell if you go out and pick up litter others tend to join in provided you have bags.

That's what people have been saying about people of means forever. That's the sword of privilege coming right at ya. Why care when life is fine when you don't? Now that we all have that baseline privilege we're less likely to help each other. That's why as much as self improvement seems great. Community improvement is where it's at. And I mean community in the physical world. Not the internet.

Check'd Dubs. This just pick a better battle.

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Never said they wouldn't. Just so you know: kike methods don't disappear just because their creators are gone. Corruption and nepotism will still be a massive issue.

You are since you obviously underestimate the criminal energy of humans in general.

I don’t get what your objection is. Do you think I’m for democracy? That’s the only way I see corruption still being a problem.

Kike confirmed.

>>>Zig Forums

it's (((5d143e)))

You throw in bits of advice mixed with agreement while whispering hints of hippie bullshit to subvert the volkish aspects of Zig Forums. kys

Hows 10th grade treating ya?

Check'd trips. I think it's time you developed a larger lexicon. The points you are making aren't being recieved properly.

Lol top ten trolling. Come into a thread about leaders being the people who dont want to lead and try and subvert it to you defending your plans. Are you having as much fun as I am or are you really that butthurt about your ideas needing work?

I still think y'all could do better. Just start with a community pot luck or some shit. It kinda bugs me how much infighting there is here. Seems like y'all don't agree on a whole lot.

Yet again, do fuck off Moishe.

I'm posting my face it's pretty obvious who I am. Besides… why would I leave? I am genuinely interested in your peoples betterment even though you approach me with hostility. We can all get better together but there's just too much anger to chop through.

Also thanks for spreading the message champ. I know you gotta pretend like you fit in here but it really is nice to have people link my posts across threads. That never happens at cuckchan

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I saw "American third position" and decided to propose my idea of National Capitalism. Also teenagers are libertarians.

you also keep ignoring my main points

that implies creation, faggot. Go and stay go.

Your one ugly motherfucker if so.

You have no main points. You just say that corporations should be handed even more control over the economic interdependencies than they already have.

This will fuck over small and middle sized businesses as corporations, even those not headed by Jews, will form massive unbreakable monopolies. The result will be obviously less competition, less economic opportunity for the common man, an even wider divide between the rich and the poor and even the stagnation of technological progress.

So, as a middle class white man I have the choice between being a wage slave in the kike controlled economy or being a wage slave in your economy. Go, shill somewhere else for this lolbertarian shit.



Yeah and I complemented you on the good trolling. It really is top knotch. You've got the other homie really giving up some good insight into his life.

That's not what you said last night.

Hey I'm sorry your needs aren't being met in the current economic system. What would your ideal situation be for your own life? What kind of agency would you like to attain?

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I made it up means I never read it any where faggot. Two people can have make the same thing up if they don't know about the other person

That really is a shame. I came here to curb the anger. Liven it up a bit. Why so serious and all that. I guess I'm just tired of seeing the people I used to call friends spiral off into this mess. You live by the shitpost, you die by the incel I guess. Just know I really do care about y'all. People in the real world tell me to stop coming on the chans like I do but I truly believe that places like this are where Ideas can thrive and frankly it saddens me that you want to close off so many of them. All this intelligence here could be put to true community organizing but you have to get over yourself. I'm not over myself and clearly its holding me back and I see it happening in you too

This guys still killin it.

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I'm super glad you two niggers derailed an old Zig Forums quality thread over eceleb niggertry. Thank you.

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>implying corporations never abuse their monopolies and claim it's (((working as intended, goy)))

Any economic plan that de-regulates shit for small and medium sized business and cranks up government oversight for the massive trusts and corporations has my support. Larger firms don't have to pay more taxes, just live with a much, much stricter enforcement of the rules to protect the economic opportunity of the white working and middle classes. Close all loopholes in the tax code, close the tax havens these multi billion dollar parasites use, give SEC actual tools to controll the fucking stock and regulate trade in meaningful way, revive Teddy Roosevelt if it's necessary to crack the worst evil doers and shit merchants.

Thread got derailed starting here,

at this point, i only care what race is operating it.

Hey, buddy. I'm a fascist. How about the dictator send in the police and beats the shit out of the CEO's untill they pay.
and they will go some where else with their money.
If the prices get jacked up X100 a new competitor will crop up.
can you at least concede that I also want the average working white to thrive. I just don't think that NatSoc is the way to go. here's an olive branch maybe, the ideal is in between NatSoc and NatCap. Where Nat Soc is good for some industries and the others operate off of Nat Cap?

Your inherent belief in the benevolence of authority is misguided, as all things (at least human institutions) change so will governments and no matter how good it may be at one moment, at another it will decay and become corrupted. But because of your faith in authority you have given future enemies absolute power, so what do you do then?

Nat-socs historically had a much better crack at keepin corporate abuse at bay. They throttled the stock market down to a necessary minimum, preventing unnecessary speculative bullshit that would wipe precious assests or bankrupt those involved. They basically protected firms like Krupp or IG Farben from the absolute worst aspects of their own greed while on the other hand guarantueing them a fair share of proift by handing out long term contracts and tax incentives.

That was done to protect the middle class and the workers, so they don't get eaten for a third time within a short period of time (hyperinflation of '23, depression of '29-'34). Nat-socs tried what was practical for these people - that is the reason why the pre-war years '34-'39 were remembered by many Germans as a golden age. It's not only that they kept their promise to fight the massive unemployment, but the standard of living went through the roof for many, many Germans, especially families with children.

at least I've convinced you i'm not a libertarian
Will society eventually decay? Sure. But at least with an authoritarian state there can't be any slow creeping subversion. That way when the cycle of history repeats, our race won't be at risk of extinction.

I'll confess. I hope the majority of leaders are glow in the dark, controlled opposition. I'd be much more embarrassed to learn that Richard Spencer was 100% loyal than to learn that he's a Mossad agent that tricked a few people. Calling everyone a glownigger is useful as a means of quickly dissociating with anyone. Good leaders will be recognized by their perseverance. They won't get worn out like Patrick Little, and won't be boring like David Duke. My biggest complaint with calling everyone a kike-shill is that sometimes it feels like Zig Forums it full of know-it-alls who think they know everything and don't care to hear what you have to say.

The leader is metaphysical. I've been proposing this for years and years now.

We already have a leader. It's an idea and ideal. Those that emerge that appear to be "the leader" should only be those who best synchronise their behaviour in accordance with this ideal. When they slip up, they stop being leader, but the metaphysical framework remains.

We don't need this shit spelled out for us. We're individualistic, that's a trait of our race. We need only push in the same direction and live in accordance with a code of honour that will prevent us from fight with each other whilst also allowing us to compete and challenge each other.

The objective is to establish a new civilisation geared towards the survival and prosperity of our race. That is the objective. All plans must tick these boxes. Anything short of this is failure.

>>The objective is to establish a new civilizsation geared towards the survival and prosperity of our race. That is the objective. All plans must tick these boxes. Anything short of this is failure.

I completely agree with this but I am struggling with the how of convincing the White masses with only the idea. From how I understand it, unlike most other groups Whites require a lot of abstraction around an idea to feel comfortable with it. Getting away from these logical abstractions but staying in the physical probably scares most Whites who'd feel more comfortable with droves of books by authors in nearby picture frames with a whole bunch of terms and models to regurgitate. Such, would move their minds away from the actual physical process of the White racial group succeeding over other groups and not helping non-White groups.

The Leftists in this regard have constructed such a bulwark, even though the physical implementation of their idea won't give them what they want, still they fight for it by only seeing the Logical Framework. White Nationalists have mostly done the exact opposite, having a really good physical idea of a "White Nation" that will work if physically implemented. They have shortcut the process though, by thinking that if you have a real idea, it doesn't need a Logical Framework encompassing it, which I disagree with.

I think the building of such a scaffolding should be explored for White Nationalism but I am unsure of how to differentiate it enough away from being considered cuckolding Civic Nationalism and instead only be the exact abstraction of White Racial Nationalism.

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I don't like the term "Third Position", it implies there are two other legitimate positions and this is the third, just another option. Which is entirely wrong. There is only one true position.

fuck off commie, you're not deciding kingmaker, kike