India today – the West tomorrow?

Fuck off street shitter

Great thread OP, have a bump, this is all undeniably true.

Found the retarded pajeetposter who can't deal with Aryan Invasion Theory.

I thought it was more of a migration rather than an explicit invasion?

It's well documented that Siddhartha Guatama (aka the buddha) had blue eyes, a feature you do not find among chinks or modern day pajeets.

OP was correct in his assertion that the Buddha was a white aryan man.

Even though ancient India fell victim to race mixing which definitely lowered and eventually ruined the civilization, the remnants of white Aryan rule still remain in the DNA of the Brahmin caste, see link below:

archive.is/m3D8C

The higher castes in India have DNA with more European markers, while the lower castes have DNA with more Asian markers. The once racial caste hierarchy was enforced by India's ancient Aryan rulers.

Attached: swazi.png (602x301, 59.66K)

We already know that but OP is a pajit shitter who makes all the anti-white and anti-hitler threads and IP hops.

Reminder that White Nationalism is the weapon used by Jews to exterminate Whites.

Is OP bipolar or something?
Why would he make a pro-white indian thread and then make anti-white threads?

The darker pajeets are jealous as fuck of the lighter skinned Brahmins.
Most of the Bollywood actors/actresses are of higher caste origins.

The higher caste Indians are typically better looking, have higher IQ's, and end up being more succesful.

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TBF the aryan invasion is just a theory. Both the Y haplogroup R -especially R1a- and light skin genes did originate in or around India (I looked it up), so yes the theory is now pretty much debunked. Haplogroup R2 is also found in India and no other part of the world, which further shows that R originated and diversified in or around India itself.

India has always at par with the west, if not superior. Also, Indians always preferred dark skin over light. Even Marco Polo documents this

For I assure you that the darkest man is here the most highly esteemed and considered better than others who are not so dark. Let me add that in very truth these people portray and depict their gods and their idols black and their devils white as snow

also yes

Apart from worshiping black gods (avatars), don't forget you have been behind us for over 5000 years and possibly all of human history until recently. How can an untouchable MONKEY like you compare yourself with us?

Brahmins are not even in the top 5 closest castes to Europeans. In fact the name for Europeans is MONKEY and the official caste system of Nepal also considered you lowly Shudras by birth.

Blue eyes are found even among the untouchables and southern indians. They are also found among unmixed chinks and abos. He also had brown skin and dark black hair and looked nothing like you untouchable MONKEYS

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That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Nearly all the Bollywood actors/actresses are lighter skinned Indians, and it's nearly unanimously accepted around the world that lighter skin is more beautiful.

Also why is it that Dalits, the lowest of Indian caste groups, also happen to be the darkest skinned?

Skin that looks like poop isn't beautiful my dude, no one thinks that.

Also not true.
When I visited India 20 years ago during a college trip, nearly all of their idols were in colors like blue, white, red or gold for the most part. I don't remember seeing any artwork or statues of religious idols in black.

hahahahahahaha
R originated likely in eastern SIberia, then it split into R1 and R2, R2 went south into south Asia, R1 kept travelling west until it split into R1a and R1b, both somewhere in eastern Europe or western Siberia in all likelihood
in any case, indians don't just carry any R1a, they carry, like 99% of R1a carriers, R1a-M417, very clearly of eastern European origins>>13362321

Attached: R1a.png (630x472, 131.84K)

Blue eyes are very rare in India, and probably even rarer among chinks. Blue and Green eyes are of Aryan origin, which is why they are so common among lighter skinned Aryan people like we find in Europe.

Not sure what kind of nonsensical point you're making here. Maybe your language translator isn't work right? Try again pajeet!

Here you go op and some images of the pure aryans descendants.

Fuck, forgot the images.
Sage

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Nice pics.
The genetic remnants of the Aryans who invaded India and Central Asia, not only bringing beautiful traits like blue & green eyes, but also bringing civilization to and subjugating the native shitskin pajeets.

lol these monkeys desperately want to claim the greatest civilization in the history of the planet as their own. Even Europeans in the 17th and 18th centuries recounted being treated as untouchables.

Meat eating demon Shudras are only good for servicing real Aryans (Indians).

Recent preference for light BROWN skin due to colonization is only a representative of colonization. Marco Polo and several others documented the same thing. Even the Gods are depicted as dark as night in scriptures. The author of the Vedas was also black himself

Dalits are not the darkest, South Indians are the darkest and Brahmins are not the lightest either. You are spreading nonsense information because you know you have no history except barbarism and you look like monkey

Idols are often made of marble so they are sometimes white, but many holiest ones are black. You cannot say "I saw" and then jump to conclusions stupid MONKEY

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Get your facts straight pajeet…

After race-mixing with the natives, the Indian civilization established by the Aryans began to collapse and erode over time. Eventually the darker skinned natives took over power and the caste system lost its racial element over time.

But even still, DNA analysis shows that the higher castes of India still retain more European (Aryan) DNA than lower castes.

DNA doesn't lie pajeet!

Mr. Pajeet here is trying to cope with the fact that white Aryans were responsbile for establishing ancient India's civilization.

Oh god you monkeys are so dishonest and stupid that you are like common Shudras. Possible place of origin says South Asia, Central Asia or EAST Siberia. The father of R was P and also lived around India. The father of P was K which also originated in or near India.

You are a highly inferior barbarian, but try to understand science here for once in your stupid life or you will always remain an untouchable Shudra monkey. You should only live to serve me

These are low caste tribes. The Kalash people (Descendants of Greeks) are considered so UGLY that they have to dye their hair black. They are also barbarian

make it east SIberia, you low brown ape, at least you actually have an ancient sample from there confirming this, Malta boy, 24000BC, frmo the ANE cluster, itself 3/4 west Eurasian according to the latest academic estimates

sure it did streetshitter, just yesterday a paper on the Yana hunter gatherers from paleolithic north east Siberia found P1* in those HGs, P1 being the ancestor of R and Q

a fucking street shitting poverty ridden subhuman conquered repeatedly by caucasians calling anyone inferior, imagine being this delusional

You gotta laugh at this shitskin pajeet trying to cope.

The avg IQ of India is in the high 80's.
China is going to eat your shit for breakfast pajeet!

If India had remained a predominantly white Aryan nation, then maybe India wouldn't be a shithole today?

No. European people are considered low castes as are many other Indo-European tribals. What facts can a Shudra like you teach me? Your tongue should be cut off as dictated by our Hindu constitution. I will do it without hesitation. That is your punishment for arguing with an Aryan.

India had 27% of world GDP in the early 18th century whether you like it or not. There were no white people ever in India's history. Even our ancient scriptures attest to it.

Marco Polo did not visit white people who were richer than your shitty europe

UK lost badly even to Bangladesh in the 17th century. There was no conquest in India - only divide and rule - the only thing you cunning shudras are capable of when surrounded by Godly people

This pajeet is just envious that he'll never have beautiful light skin or Aryan features to become a Bollywood actor.

Suck it up you low caste dalit.
Maybe you're fit for cleaning the dead carcases of animals and people off railroad tracks?

Certainly not fit for much else.

So unicorns and giant birds that hunt elephants are real now?

Also, you realize we live in an age where we can look up all the art we want from any time period and from any culture.
The vedic/hindu gods are either depicted yellow, white, red, green or blue. I actually have a hard time finding a single depiction of a black god in painted art, the closest I could find is a depiction of Kali that looks black but is most likely a dark blue.

So I suppose that all the vedic gods are grey then because the vast majority of unpainted statues depicting them are in grey stone.

Yeah, it's definitely that and not the fact that black haired women are less likely to be raped by muzzies and shitskin hindus who are just as likely to be rapists as the muzzies.

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The evil Kali is often depicted as dark or black.

Black is typically a color associated with evil, malevolence, and death.

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The Kalash people remain somewhat pure today. Whites are not native to India though, they migrated there

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Nope.

The fact that white people ruled ancient India is undeniable. How is this thread pro-Pajeet? It says that modern Indians are WE WUZ mongrels profiting off white cultural achievements – a fact

how does one say "shut it down!" in poo language?

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Lol I'm not the one who looks like a MONKEY also it's not 24000BC it's 24000YBP you were wrong again! hahahaha

Your latest academic estimate is from 2013 and latest east siberia study is from January 2014. All other research claiming origins in or around India are more recent hahahaha pathetic MONKEY

That's not based on IQ tests. Lynn's India samples are from 2 NE India tribes, 1 Odisha tribe.

Do you want a banana? Indians have much higher IQ than whites. Average IQ of Indians in US is 112, higher than even jews. Even in India our IQ is much higher than yours. You are nothing but the dust of our feet. There is nothing beautiful about looking like a MONKEY. You are an untouchable Shudra and will always be and your name will always be MONKEY

IQ of Chennai, Tamil Nadu:-

Study 1:-

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc…

IQ of 107 as a community sample. 4 zones in Chennai and 12 schools were selected randomly. Sample size of 717. 606 children belonged to families with less than 6500 INR monthly income. And 130 had illiterate mothers. If anything, the selection bias towards socio-economic status is downward.

Study 2:-

tandfonline.com/doi/a…

IQ of children was found to be 102. And 95 for those having high lead in blood level.

——————————————–

IQ in Chandigarh, Punjab:-

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc…

Average IQ is 99. 5 private schools and 5 government schools were randomly selected out of 37 schools. And sample size is 2400.

—————————————————-

IQ in 2 rural and 2 urban areas of Punjab:-

ijres.org/papers/Volu…

IQ in 2 rural areas is 96.2, 90.4. And 2 urban areas is 102, 106. IQ grades are available (0 to 10th percentile, etc.) and online statistical tool is required to read.

Rural areas are in Dera Bassi and Tehsil Kharar. Urban areas is in Fatehgarh Saheb. And Tehsil Kharar.

—————————————————————————-

IQ in Uttar Pradesh:-

Study 1 (rural):

Cognitive dysfunction, Dean’s fluorosis index, Intellectual deficits, Neurotoxicity, Raven’s coloured progressive matrices

IQ of 110 in village Tiwariganj, Lucknow and 85–92 in village, Unnao district of UP.

85-92 is in high fluoride contaminated region.

CPM scores are mentioned. And is normalized to 110 IQ at 29 mean CPM score.

Mean age of participant was 9 as mentioned in the sample.

I will use normalization data for Australia:-

A normative and reliability study for the Raven’s Coloured Progressive Matrices for primary school aged children from Victoria, Australia - [Download PDF]

Average CPM score for kids in Australia in 2003 matched for same aged group shows 27 mean and 30 at 75 percentile. So, the data is well normalized as per Australian 2003 norms.

Study 2(urban):

hrcak.srce.hr/file/44025

IQ of Muslims in Aligarh city, Uttar Pradesh (Average IQ of 107)

Source: “Badaruddoza. Inbreeding effects on metrical phenotypes among Muslim North Indian Children. Collegicum Antropologicum 28(Suppl. 2): 311-318. (ISSN No. 0350-6134.”

———————-

IQ of Gujarat rural:-

fluoridealert.org/wp-cont…

fluoridealert.org/wp-…

IQ in 6 villages of Gujarat is 97 (optimum environment) and 92 (un-optimum conditions).

IQ of villages near Ahmedabad is 104.

IQ in West Bengal:-

Study 1 (rural):-

researchgate.net/pub…

IQ in villages in Laxmisagar Village was 108.3 in normal regions and 85–92 in fluoride contaminated areas.

The kalash people are decended from the original steppe yamnaya people retard, the yamnaya are what is commonly meant by the yamnaya people, retarded currynigger

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*aryan people

it's actually from…yesterday…but thanks to showing me how illiterate street shitting animals are nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1279-z

wow, 2000 years of error, you sure showed me
you still have to explain how 99% of Indian R1a is M417 while the oldest and most basal branches of it are found in mesolithic east Europe

What's with the sudden influx of pajeets in just a couple of months?
It's relatively smaller here but these guys spam like rats on 4/pol/ deliberately trying to bait everyone there.

Pajeet, let me spell it out for you as simply as I can.

INDIA IS A SHIT HOLE.

People literally shit on the streets in India.
India is a third world backwater, an undeveloped mess, full of poverty and primitiveness.

ALL western European nations are better than India. U.S. and Canada are better than India in literally every category.

How's that supposedly "high Indian IQ" working out for you street shitters?

Have you solved the street shitting problem yet?

Despite being highly inbred mudslimes, even fucking Albania and Pakistan are significantly better than streetshitters solely for having their Indo-European genes slightly less diluted.

Lol you are wrong about Kalasha but I will not argue with a monkey. You have shown that Brahmins have high Onge DNA while low castes have high amounts of White DNA. Are you really THAT stupid? wow. I guess you really are a monkey! hahaha

Yesterday? Oh wow, good boy! Where does it say R was less likely to originate in South Asia or Central Asia? Come on monkey be a good boy and show some evidence

Pakistanis and Afghans are paupers and among the poorest people in the world. They are equal to sub saharan african countries just like you were a few centuries ago hahaha. You had no identity except monkey barbarians. Even southern europeans looked down on you.

Even talking to you is like polluting myself. You are a pollution

I'm talking about their ancestry, which in their qpGraph model as well as key f stats is indeed mosly west-eurasian like
you are the one who has to explain your hilarious meme theory that R originated in south asia or central asia if you had P1* in NE Siberia around ~35k ybp and R in east Siberia ~24k BC(with similar ancestry too and no sign whatsoever of subhuman poo ancestry)

But the only monkeys in jungles look like you lol go look in the fucking mirror you untouchable ghost man. The study from yesterday in no way shows that the Y-DNA R originated in East Siberia, and currently accepted estimates say not only R but even fathers of R like P and K lived in India. No scientist would accept your proposition. This is what we call UNSCIENTIFIC bigotry. But I guess that's in your makeup…

What you call "meme theory" is the result of scientific research by large teams of scientists. The only meme theory is your Aryan invasion because you're bigtime wannabes. The point is you've always been behind and you always will be. Even US is half non-white now. You cant do anything but sit bitterly in your rooms. You are going back to your original place.

Even Chinky people call you monkeys hahahaa!!!

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lmao, no they don't, poo in loo outdated meme science doesn't count as the consensus
K itself descends from IJK, both I and J are west Eurasians and the earliest carriers of both P1 and R were closer to west Eurasians, yet somewhat K should be poo in loo, hahahah

laughing my ass off here

your failure to address any of my question and blatantly ignoring them is enough to dismiss any of your subhuman babble and resentment

lol calling research by scientists as memes just shows that you are almost 100% monkey haha only monkeys like you can create memes. They are so stupid just like you and your broken family

You talk of IJK but don't know that its father HIJK most probably originated in India. It's forefather F also 100% belonged to South Asia. So again we come back to India. LMAO. Nothing originated in your frozen continent except ignorance and stupidity

India is the only country where almost all Y-DNA exists. This further proves that Indians are fathers of all Europeans. The history of Indian civilization is actually millions of years old based on our scriptures.

You are talking to your father. Show some respect little monkey

Thanks. Iss madarchodo gore ko kuch pata nehi hai. Bekar ki Zig Forums bana rakha hai, kuch research nehi karta.

isko chupa do (hindi)

Fuck off chutiya.

Bhai ye itna chutiya h ki me ye bhi nhi dekh pa rha h ki brahmin me kam steppe DNA h

Arre inlogo apne biswas ko pehle rakhke baate karte hai. Kuch bhi unke khilap jayega to manega nehi. Tum post karte raho. Kabhi toh inko manna parega.

Aryan Jainism is dead, though. There's nothing of modern India that smacks of its ancient 'white' roots.

Lekin yeh to science h aur R-YDNA ka origin bhi idhar hi h science ke hisaab se. Yeh bandar toh bade scientific bolte hain apne ap ko!! lol
Bhai manenge toh ye tb hi jb Hindustan inke chote chote desho ko yudh ki dhamki dega China ki tarah aur trade se inki gaand bhi marega.

Usse pehle nhi maanne wale. Lekin bas kuch hi saal aur h (15 max)

There are no ancient White roots. Both European fathers (Y-DNA carriers) and light skin gene evolved in or around India according to almost all scientists.

Aryan is an Indian word for Indian people. Correct word for white people in India is BANDAR or MONKEY.

Not only were Europeans always considered low caste, but many Indo-European tribals in Afghanistan are also considered lowly.

It must be hard, having to argue that Indian culture ISN'T Aryan when you're forced to speak and think in an ARYAN LANGUAGE

Hindi is an Aryan (Indian) language derived from the Aryan (Indian) language sanskrit. The Vedas you cling to were also written by a black man -look it up.
Your little european countries couldn't force India to do anything. Even USA is now about 50% non-white. Blond hair blue eyed countries like Denmark, Sweden and Norway can be wiped off the map within minutes

The world has changed. Know your place, fucking perverted monkey

It was so funny when Justin Trudeau was humiliated in India. lol

Canada is a weak little bitch and will be treated like that

More spam and misuse of the term "aryan" to dillute its meaning.

Kill yourself zeemaps meetup boomer fed kike kikestian schizo niggerloving ban evading shill.

Of course Hindi comes from Sanskrit, but SANSKRIT COMES FROM PROTO-INDO EUROPEAN. Your language is the language of conquerers from afar, and you dalit-monkeys would be speaking Dravidian languages exclusively if it wasn't for the gift of the Aryans

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Proving, once again, subhumans are retarded enough to believe whatever is necessary to keep them from suck starting a shotty.
You're not even human, you shit smear. Kill yourself.

No it doesn't. There is no evidence for the proto-indo-european language. It is only a hypothesis and almost every aspect of it is highly controversial

Shut up monkey. Don't speak in my presence

I don't have to. Your shit stink speaks for itself, nigger.

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Top kek, the evidence is overwhelming. You are a subhuman parasite of a once-glorious Aryan culture
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary

lmao

Maybe you should dance like a monkey too. It'll be so entertaining! LOL

These are all assumptions not evidence you stupid ape. How can you call yourself human? Dont flatter yourself. Even calling yourself subhuman would be an insult to humans. You are a monkey. Just get used to it

Attached: maxresdefault (2)

t. shitskin

Learn to read.
1. Aryan means Noble and refers to Indians in the Vedas (which were written by a black man)
2. India's past has always been more glorious than yours until the 1700s
3. Europeans and castes more similar to whites are often considered lowly compared to negroid brahmins

You are NOTHING and have always been NOTHING. Even in Greek times it was known that you people are just shit.

Everytime

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Nobody's assmad except you monkeys who see your precious nonsensical theory fall to pieces in the face of genetic, historical and cultural evidence.

More evidence:

The Nepali civil code Muluki Ain was commissioned by Jung Bahadur Rana after his European tour and enacted in 1854. It was rooted in traditional Hindu Law and codified social practices for several centuries. Most notable contradiction is the inclusion of previously non-Hindu tribes "Adivasi Janajati" groups, as well as non-Nepalis including Muslims and Europeans into the hierarchical fold

Muslims & Europeans were classed as touchable shudras whose food was untouchable

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Nigger, you sand sucking goat fucker are STILL illiterate! HAAAHAHA!!
Keep it up though! I love dancing singing apes! So entertaining when you're trying to act human, and "superior" to your Superiors.
You're so pathetic I almost want to believe you.
Instead, cry moar, nigger.

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Mic drop, you retarded nigger. YOU are the ape ancestor. Not my bloodline. We're Nephilim, bitch.
BOOM! Just blew your ENTIRE bullshit out of your subhuman neander skull, street shitter!

The 4 Vedas were created by Ved Vyas, a black man. You claim to know everything about Vedas, yet you didn't even know that? LMAO what a fucking pathetic wannabe-human monkey you are. All you monkeys are nothing but pests and will soon be wiped out of existence. You're the only one talking about beliefs. All economists agree that India has been the richest country since about the beginning of recorded history lol. Your western monkey economists agree hahaha

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Yeah, I understand your frustration, nigger. Resentment and jealousy of your genetic betters is a Hell of a BlackPill to swallow. Sucks to be you. I can't even imagine, nigger.

Thanks to the Aryans who were there before you, that you stole your entire existence from. The Wester World of REAL Aryans are the only reason we altruistically include you in OUR industries and wealth.
You'd still be fucking your sister, and eating your brother if not for us.
Keep kvetching. It's glorious.

LMAO you're projecting so hard. You just can't swallow the black pill that you were always shit compared to us and now pretend to be human even though all but 1 of your nations are exceptionally weak compared to India. USA is scared shitless of China.

Correct theory is out of India, due to evolution of genes. You are a mutant

Aryan means Indian. There were Indians in 1700AD and even 1800BC. Vedas were written by a black man you stupid monkey. Your people could never even read and write till a few hundred years ago. Greeks looked down on you. You are late to civilization by at least 4000 years.

Also:
- Europeans and castes more similar to you monkeys are often considered lowly compared to negroid brahmins
- R and Light skin gene evolved in or near India, not Europe.

Don't forget you people have ALWAYS been behind.

Anyways I need to have a bath now to purify myself after interacting with these low caste monkey european ghosts… I support Jews killing these monkey pests

The Vedas were not written by a nigger you stupid street shitting mudfucker!

Your attempt at trolling is blatantly retarded.

Everyone knows India is a third world country where people shit in the streets, nothing you say or do can erase that fact.

And now India is a third world street shitting garbage dump because mudskin pajeets took over and ruined the ancient civilization that the Aryans built.

Most people in Indian look like half-breed mudskin mongrels so it can be hard to tell the difference, but members of higher castes typically have lighter skin. Most Bollywood actors and actresses are of higher caste origin, and often look more European and have lighter skin.

ignore the streetshitters
try being in their position, with their entire ancient high culture being the product of invading Europid steppe males only to be conquered again later by some closest descendants of these(Brits)
resentment is understandable, and now that their masters brought them the internet they have a way to vent it

This is as good a place as any to expose the new meme on Youtube.

This accomplishes two objectives of the jew world order.

This channel was clearly created from the outset to push the children of Kalergi.
NJoy.

Cont:
Please, someone with more mana than me, make a thread about this shit.
There are scores of videos on exactly the same topic, easy to find.
Obviously centrally directed.

India is a shit hole, WTF are you talking about you stupid nigger?

White people are literally Gods compared to you lowly poop skinned morons who can't figure out how to build a decent plumbing system in your major cities.

Keep shitting in the streets pajeet!

You gonna go bathe in the Ganges river with your dead cousins floating?

←– Pajeet taking a bath.

My asshole is probably cleaner than the average Indian!

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HAHAHaha! You're so adorable. There's only one reason you're here. FEAR.
Fear of the fact that Aryans are Superior, spent the last century attempting to share our Superior culture to the rest of the subhuman world, invited you into OUR lands, gave you head starts, gave you resources, made racist laws against Native Aryans so you could get an education, which we also paid for, etc, just so you could sneak up, stab us in the back, re-write OUR History, and then claim "superiority"?
You know exactly what comes next. You know full well that we are fully vindicated, and justified in what comes next. You're scared shitless, and here, in some backwards attempt to wag your little dick around and mock us, to try and save your dumb ass from extinction.
No.

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Didn't stop him from writing seriously retarded and depressive shit though…

And use a weekly metric fuckton of skin-whitening cream.

lol,must say pajeet has really riled up all insceure,circle-jerking cucks here.Look how they wag their tiny dicks and threaten genocide unironically like nigger subhumans.

Asuras (likened to ill spirits or mischievous/evil entities) are notoriously dark.

You simply misunderstand, faggot.

You see now you will be hard pressed to find any Aryan who is interested in bothering to argue with you subhumans anymore. Most especially here. Enough of your toxic words. Enough of your bullshit.
Coming here in bad faith with your shit talk will only get you more of the same dismissive treatment.
Go tell the rest of the herd. You've all pushed too far. You've mistaken our silence, and patience for weakness.
The pendulum swings both ways, niggers.
Good luck.

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You curry niggers let your buildings run down and fuck like fruit flies, you don't understand shit about how the mightiest (now ruined) temples found in India and nearby were built. Last but not least, you literally defecate in streets.

Casually passing Indian here.

This thread not good because indian brother displaying fact you still insult him. Shows lot about you.

Asura pictures given. In one picture asura lighter than boar avatar

Asura worshipped by Iranians and middle eastern … was light skinned

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the people that kali is killing sure do have an interesting skin tone, don't they?

No i am not,itt whites are trying to prove superiority against subhuman curries and only coming up with pathetic insults and threats just like niggers.shows how pathetic we have become as a race

you are getting into the realm of germanic mysticism, the ahnenerbe held some very odd beliefs in this regard and sent expeditions to the himalayas and tibet.
there is currently very little proof to support these claims, the only thing may be the kalash tribe of pakistan, but their dna cannot be found in germanic people of europe, even though they look very similar. It is true that people were a lot "whiter" before the mongol and islamic invasions, i guess the bottom line is everyone just believes what they feel because the evidence isn't available.