Why did ancient Romans and Greeks resemble Celts and Germanics?

Joshua Cook
Joshua Cook

Most Italians in the South closely resemble the Eurasian-Negroid Race the Jews are trying to create. In fact, a lot of Southern Europeans do.

I'm starting to wonder that the "barbarians" who sacked Rome were not foreigners, but rural Roman citizens who got tired of being ethnically replaced by their government. Essentially, the sack of Rome by the Goths was the ancient version of DTOR.

I'm even starting to wonder if the Jews had a role in Rome's mongrelization and decline. I mean, the Jews probably did as revenge for the destruction of Israel.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=eOM2fT6tBFE&t=1300s
redpillaction.wordpress.com/2019/04/15/the-italian-question/

Jaxson Hall
Jaxson Hall

sage and report people

Kayden Jones
Kayden Jones

South Italy was occupied by arabs for a time.

That's the danger of race mixing and occupation right there.

Carter Bennett
Carter Bennett

This.

Although the whitepill is that arabs are actually caucasians and were equals to Europeans until islam made them all marry their cousins and turned them retarded over the course of the last 1400 or so years. So the Italian rapebabies don't have any of the shitty genes.

Wyatt Hill
Wyatt Hill

Bump and why can’t I post on 4/pol/? Every time I try to solve the captcha it says I’m wrong even if I’m clearly right.

Parker Hernandez
Parker Hernandez

Although the whitepill is that arabs are actually caucasians and were equals to Europeans

lol what

fuck off kike

The very name "arab" means mixed. Arabs are and always have been mixed, that's why they're called arabs. Just type arab into a hebrew lexicon and it comes up with this meaning -

"6151 `arab ar-ab' (Aramaic) corresponding to 6148; to commingle:–mingle (self), mix. "

Elijah Wilson
Elijah Wilson

I was going to ask in the book thread, but where's that macro with all the recommended books from Greece to Rome? Also, I need some recs by non pozzed authors on Rome from the last century.

Austin Morales
Austin Morales

Because many of them left Egypt around 1300 BC. Celts have basically been beaten back by Germanics for the last 2000 years.

Michael Barnes
Michael Barnes

If you read Caesar's accounts of fighting Germanics, he describes them as looking noticeably different in phenotypes than his fellow Romans, with an emphasis on ghostly pale skin, light eyes, and yellow hair

Carson Williams
Carson Williams

racemixing
in a religion where marrying your cousin is encouraged by the Prophet himself
Top kek

Owen Cooper
Owen Cooper

They most likely were Early European Farmers with some Western Hunter Gatherer and a little Ancient North Eurasian. They probably looked a lot like Sardinians, who are almost entirely EEF.

Tyler Sanchez
Tyler Sanchez

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Joshua Ortiz
Joshua Ortiz

Okay I reported you, thanks for the heads up.

Brayden Kelly
Brayden Kelly

In the north yes in the south not really. Southern Roman’s/ Italians would have looked like the majority or modern southern Italians excluding specific cases of nigger spook intermixing . the moors Conquered Sicily for a century but nothing more. Darker complexion in southern Italians does not mean they are nigger. Look for specific facial features

Nathan Reed
Nathan Reed

After Cesar saw 40,000 of his men disappear east of the Rhine he thought it wise to send a peace offering. A report came back of giants who slumbered for days on end doing nothing but sleeping and eating but when called upon moved faster than anything ever witnessed or performed by human. Cesar made and agreement to trade a stock of cattle and women for several giant baby boys and swore to take the best care of them. Sparta was formed and the rest is history.

Kayden Lopez
Kayden Lopez

I realize that made it sound like the Germanic tribes traded babies, they did not. Cesar sent a brood of women to carry the seed of giants back in their womb. They succeeded.

John Jenkins
John Jenkins

He stole German seed?

Henry Lewis
Henry Lewis

Why did ancient Romans and Greeks resemble Celts and Germanics?
Because they were.

Justin Bennett
Justin Bennett

Yep. The species are:
European.
African.
Asian.

The mixed sub-species' are:
Mongol (Asian+European)
Arab (African+Asian)
Polynesian (Asian+African+European)

Isaac Garcia
Isaac Garcia

I'm starting to wonder that the "barbarians" who sacked Rome were not foreigners, but rural Roman citizens
Why don't you simply
Do some fucking research instead of making wild speculations based on your emotions?
Well? Don't you think that the truth is just a little bit deserving of your attention?

Instead of engaging in wild and baseless speculation, go do some actual research on this topic. Maybe you'll discover something that no one else has discovered and you'll be able to write a book and become rich and famous.

Sage for more of this goddamn emotion-based historical revisionism.

Hudson Bailey
Hudson Bailey

The Germanic Franks East of the Delta Rhine were never defeat.
Can Anons tell which tribe(s) ?

Here is a description of some West Delta Rhine Germanics that lived between the Hercynian Forest and the North Sea:
"A practice, rare among the other German tribes, and simply characteristic of individual prowess, has become general among the Chatti, of letting the hair and beard grow as soon as they have attained manhood, and not till they have slain a foe laying aside that peculiar aspect which devotes and pledges them to valour. Over the spoiled and bleeding enemy they show their faces once more; then, and not till then, proclaiming that they have discharged the obligations of their birth, and proved themselves worthy of their country and of their parents. The coward and the unwarlike remain unshorn. The bravest of them also wear an iron ring (which otherwise is a mark of disgrace among the people) until they have released themselves by the slaughter of a foe. Most of the Chatti delight in these fashions. Even hoary-headed men are distinguished by them, and are thus conspicuous alike to enemies and to fellow-countrymen. To begin the battle always rests with them; they form the first line, an unusual spectacle. Nor even in peace do they assume a more civilised aspect. They have no home or land or occupation; they are supported by whomsoever they visit, as lavish of the property of others as they are regardless of their own, till at length the feebleness of age makes them unequal to so stern a valour." -Tacitus

Jayden Robinson
Jayden Robinson

If we're going to revise history might as well say good whites are the only true inhabitants of Earth and everyone else is a demon incarnate. Helps me come to terms with encountering twisted people.

Michael Kelly
Michael Kelly

If we're going to revise history might as well say good whites are the only true inhabitants of Earth and everyone else is a demon incarnate.
I'm more interested in the truth than a comforting fiction.

Brandon Thompson
Brandon Thompson

the whitepill is that arabs are actually caucasians and were equals to Europeans until islam made them all marry their cousins and turned them retarded

fucking your cousin doesn't turn you into a sandnigger. If you have recessive genes that can combine to make you a hemophiliac or something, those ones are fucked, but otherwise your babies can be perfectly healthy through cousin-impregnating.

Hell, impregnating your own mom/sister probably has no inherent problems biologically speaking.

Joshua Walker
Joshua Walker

Sparta was formed and the rest is history
<Julius Caesar, living from 100 BC to 44 BC, formed Sparta, which had existed since the 900s BC, with baby giants
shut the fuck up

Jose Edwards
Jose Edwards

The genetic contribution of the arabs in Spain or Italy is virtually nonexistent. Every study that has ever been done of this has shown that this is a meme. There was occupation, but there was neither wide scale nor small scale intermarriage.

Jayden Ward
Jayden Ward

stop associating the Germanic tribes with romans. The romans noticed differences between themselves and the Germanics, the Germanics were tall, well built, broad, the romans were skinny swarthy manlets.

while the romans were focusing on muh civilisation and muh advancement and fucking kids the germanics were fighting and hunting constantly

James Flores
James Flores

Winter Chan to the rescue, Grand Solar Minimum FTW.

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Nicholas Kelly
Nicholas Kelly

Exactly, faggots pretend to be "Germanic" when the real Germans were borthers with the Celts, many many Celtic Danes in the world, the Nigger Turkish Italians, not the Lombardy kind, the Negroid kind, they want to pretend to be "German" and kill all the white folks before anyone notices.

Luis Robinson
Luis Robinson

No people here, we are folks with jimmies to rustle.

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Jeremiah Gonzalez
Jeremiah Gonzalez

is there anything albino bugmen won't wewuz in a way or the other?

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Anthony Torres
Anthony Torres

Although the whitepill is that arabs are actually caucasians and were equals to Europeans until islam made them all marry their cousins and turned them retarded over the course of the last 1400 or so years
no way, they were always stupid sand niggers. but at least they were tribal pagans instead of dick-mutilating (((abrahamic))) zealots

Brandon Walker
Brandon Walker

that refers to the fact that arabs emerged as a confederation of many different bedouin clans, tribes and families. Probably in the syrian desert as that is most likely where the arabic language emerged

Gabriel Hernandez
Gabriel Hernandez

it was the gauls who were described as having ghostly pale skin because that stereotypical celtic phenotype must have been much more common there then it is today (makes sense since most french people descend from latin peoples not celts, and the continental celts got defeated, assimilated and killed off).

Most germanic people are relatively swarthy in their skin complexion (though golden-brown pigment not olvie) and its unlikely that would have been any different back then when people lived a much more outdoors lifestyle. Unless the different climate and/or the much greater abundance of forest caused lower light conditions, but their settlements were in plains and meadows not literally innawoods

Elijah Harris
Elijah Harris

you only think so because there's no paint on those statues anymore. If you painted that statue the right way or if it was a real person with the right pigmentation, they would easily look like italian people. And the sculptors most likely refined their features which naturally brings out more of a resemblance to northern and western europeans

Henry Gonzalez
Henry Gonzalez

its probably more that there are a lot more arabs now then there used to be

Anthony Diaz
Anthony Diaz

If you read Caesar's accounts of fighting Germanics, he describes them as looking noticeably different in phenotypes than his fellow Romans, with an emphasis on ghostly pale skin, light eyes, and yellow hair
The Germanics would exaggerate their whiteness for hype. They would dye their hair more blonde and paint/powder their skin. Nice job taking the bait, Caesar.

Cooper Wright
Cooper Wright

saged and reported for D&C/disinfo

South Euro are roughly 75-20-5 ENF:PIE:WHG
North Euro are roughly 50-40-10 ENF:PIE:WHG

Its a slight variation in founding stock between the three main founding stocks of Europe (ignoring ANE, etc).

Zig Forums is about truth, stop spreading disinfo, it discredits Zig Forums.

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Anthony Walker
Anthony Walker

All I mean to say that it's bad for arabs nigger jews to occupy Europe and race mix.

Nicholas Edwards
Nicholas Edwards


Wow cesar invented time travel too huh? Was this cesar chavez youre talking about or who?

Ethan Phillips
Ethan Phillips

Haha lol what.

Cooper Edwards
Cooper Edwards

Very relevant
youtube.com/watch?v=eOM2fT6tBFE&t=1300s

Jaxon Thomas
Jaxon Thomas

We wuz romanz und greeks.

Blake Davis
Blake Davis

Caesar before Sparta

Evan Gutierrez
Evan Gutierrez

There's already some leaked PCA with imperial age Romans and iron age Etruscan DNA, the paper should come out officially by the end of this year with another one having even more.
Expect OG Romans/Quirites(~753BC to ~100BC) to be essentially between those, sort of north-Italian-like, Tuscan-like in particular is my bet.

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Juan Stewart
Juan Stewart

Because they were, OP.

Has your pozzed high school education taught you nothing?

David Butler
David Butler

(1)
Because founders of the great Roman and Greek communities were
fucking Whites, not metizos.
arabs are actually caucasians
implying arabs are/were white
they were not you inbred kike and won't ever be white

The sub-sub-sub-sub-species are:
Jew (everything in, it's like a racial trash collector)

Henry Gomez
Henry Gomez

"A practice, rare among the other German tribes, and simply characteristic of individual prowess, has become general among the Chatti, of letting the hair and beard grow as soon as they have attained manhood, and not till they have slain a foe laying aside that peculiar aspect which devotes and pledges them to valour. Over the spoiled and bleeding enemy they show their faces once more; then, and not till then, proclaiming that they have discharged the obligations of their birth, and proved themselves worthy of their country and of their parents. The coward and the unwarlike remain unshorn. The bravest of them also wear an iron ring (which otherwise is a mark of disgrace among the people) until they have released themselves by the slaughter of a foe. Most of the Chatti delight in these fashions. Even hoary-headed men are distinguished by them, and are thus conspicuous alike to enemies and to fellow-countrymen. To begin the battle always rests with them; they form the first line, an unusual spectacle. Nor even in peace do they assume a more civilised aspect. They have no home or land or occupation; they are supported by whomsoever they visit, as lavish of the property of others as they are regardless of their own, till at length the feebleness of age makes them unequal to so stern a valour." -Tacitus
Bu-buh but "YOU SHALL NOT KILL" it reads on my tablet!!!!!!!

Gavin Jenkins
Gavin Jenkins

See Both had massive enslavement of muslims and sold them back to north africa. In the case of sicily it was then flooded with migrants from the mainland as a result of economic prosperity that ensued after reconquest. This is why siculo arabic is only spoken in malta these days.

End your shitty D&C memes. All italians look the same as they originally did in the roman era and are not racially mixed. If you still don't believe it then check out this article.

redpillaction.wordpress.com/2019/04/15/the-italian-question/

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Dominic Ramirez
Dominic Ramirez

mind if I ask where the source is from?

Your PCA chart looks more like the romans cluster with modern south italians and central italians, which is no surprise. Northern italy was the last part (apart from sicily and sardinia) to be annexed into roman italia.

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Nolan Lewis
Nolan Lewis

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Adam Perry
Adam Perry

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Liam Miller
Liam Miller

You must have an ad blocker on.

Brody Wright
Brody Wright

some guy on anthrogenica.com leaked it; being a leak, it's no sure information at this point, so take it as it is, but it seems in line with what another poster on the same site said after attending a conference about another paper on ancient Italian DNA which will also be published soon(by Hannah Moots)

these "Romans" should be from the Imperial period; after the victories against Samnites and Pyrrhus in south Italy the city received lots of Hellenized south Italians which, if Juvenal later is right, slowly outnumbered the original Quirites, that's why I wouldn't bet iron age Romans were like them
Romans were Indo-European speakers of a language, Latin, most closely related to Celtic and Germanic languages(not Greek or Illyrian or Anatolian from the east) and archeologically linked to cultures which entered Italy from the north during the bronze age(Latial culture, ancestral to Latins and the like, is an evolution and offshot of the general proto-Villanovan culture, itself related to central European Urnfield), thus it makes more sense for original Romans, aka a mix of Latins, Sabines, Albanes and Etruscans(which as it turns out, were themselves quite "northerly") to be themselves more "northerly"

also, the other paper I mentioned did in fact mention that "Romans" from 700bc to 20bc were 60% north Italian-like, while Imperial ones formed a cline from south Italy to the near east

but in any case, we should be speaking about peoples within modern mediterranean variation

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Owen Turner
Owen Turner

Juvenal is a highly dubious source. He wrote comedy and most historians reject taking his claims as fact due to most of them being written with the pupose of being outlandish or ridiculous in the eye of his readers.

Truth be told, italians all around have always been genetically most similar to greeks as a result of their geographical location. Even before greek colonization the greeks considered the italiotes as descendents of the pelasgians (their own proto greek ancestors). This has more to due with neolithic colonization of europe from the med more than anything - indo european dna is found higher in central and nothern europe as a result of this as well.

While there is a north to south genetic gradient within italy it's not as large as most make it out to be. Honestly I'm rather tired of people meming ancient italians to be something they never were, larping them the genetic equivalent of germans, transalpine celts or whathave you. All the evidence we have so far shows italy to have always been genetically mediterranean since the neolithic.

I would be highly surprised if the romans they dug up did not mimick the comtemporary populations living in the same areas of their graves and the chart you posted seems to evidence my expectations.

Thanks for the reply though.

Noah Cook
Noah Cook

he was a satirist but even in satire one can often see some glimpse of the truth; Adamantius the sophist said something similar regarding "Syrians" in Italy
let's just say the city itself, the more it went, the more it lost its original Roman-Latin character; as for the rest of the country though, myself I don't think these migrants to Rome had much of a genetic impact over Italy as a whole, though again, by the time of Augustus it had ~1 million inhabitants, in a country which probably had ~10 million overall
many people tend to look at the past with modern eyes but the truth is that before the industrial revolution cities were more like population sinks than population sources, city dwellers didn't reproduce much, at least they did not outreproduce country folk which up until recently were always the main source of population growth, and the core of their population was constituted by new migrants from outside the city
so even if there were many foreigners in Rome itself, between the plague of Justinian, the sacks, the unfavorable climate and the gothic wars, I would bet most of the foreigners died
not to mention, much of these would be slaves who would hardly have any chance to reproduce in the first place, let alone rise a family with the only exception of the few high prized educated Greek slaves who happened to be freed

in any case, there is mediterranean and mediterranean; neolithic mediterranean means something like Sardinians, be it in Greece or south Italy or north Italy or Sardinia(ancient DNA from both Nuragic Sardinia and Sicily was recently published; bottom line is that both were WHG heavy(~15-20%) anatolian farmers, iran neolithic related ancestry arriving later), and the more you go west, the richer they were in western hunter gatherer ancestry, while in the east med not only did they get essentially no HG ancestry but the amount of eastern mediterranean ancestry slowly increased, bringing with itself iranian related ancestry and natufian related ancestry
this results in quite different types of meds; iberian meds, rich in WHG ancestry and with no "west asian" ancestry, and then bronze/iron age eastern meds, poor in WHG ancestry and with non trivial west asian ancestry
this is still visible in Italy today, on a north-south cline
then obviously the bronze and iron age changed things with the arrival of central European beaker-related folk in both Iberia and Italy and some other vector of steppe ancestry in Greece
in Iberia and Italy these genetic contributions cannot be underestimated and their role as the vector of Indo-European related languages and culture is important, north Italians themselves have at the very least 1/4 of their ancestry linked to the steppe, and probably more of it if you use central European type bell beakers as a proxy

modern mediterranean variation formed essentially in the iron age, but indeed if one goes back in time one certainly doesn't find more nordic-related people, but in fact the opposite, even more mediterranean people

Wyatt Roberts
Wyatt Roberts

There is genetic difference between mediterranean Europeans and Northern Europeans, just as there is difference between all Europeans (fig 1). There is also genetic variety within the populations of each area (fig 1).

But the genetic variation between Europeans is relatively very small when compared to to the difference between Europeans and non-Europeans (fig 2, fig 3).

It should be enough to point out that Italians aren't North-African rape babies, because genetic testing shows that it isn't the case. Italians frequently have darker features than norther Europeans because of their higher average ENF genetic composition and lower PIE composition. This doesn't mean Italians aren't genetically similar to other Europeans.

It might also be worth noting that in Ancient times, northern Italy was considered part of Gaul and not part of Italy, and only really became considered part of Italy in the middle ages.

I'm not an Italian fyi.

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Jace Clark
Jace Clark

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John Reed
John Reed

fig 3

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Christian Smith
Christian Smith

I wouldn't pretend I or anyone could interpret "glimpses of truth" from outlandish comedy. If you want to listen to juvenal, he also though egyptians were overruning rome, which certainly was not the case. There were likely travellers from non european nations to visit Rome but their genetic impact is found to be nonextistant. Even Roman slaves in italy were 99% italians as noted by excavating their gravesites. It's also important to note the term "Syrian" was interchangable with the term "slave" in the ancient world. It could just as easily be slang, just like today when people call any lowlife a "niggera" or a hard bagainer a "jew". On top of this the average slave in Rome lived only to be 17 years of age.

I'm quite doubtful of "iranic" dna being present in europe. In the case of italy we're talking about recieving a notable genetic component from a country that's 4,500 miles away - highly unlikely. I think it's more likely to be derived from the caucuses if anything.

Anyhow, I don't think we're disagree on our conclusion that nonwhites have had either none or a practically immeasurable impact on the italian genepool.
Cisalpine gaul was culturally celtic, but likely not much genetically different than modern north italy. I can tell you're not italian because if you were, you would know that it became part of italy during caesar's reign as shown here , and not during the middle ages. The national conception of modern italy is a lot older than most people think and there has been a significant degree or propoganda pushing that italy and italians are a "new made up nation", which is a good joke.

The genetics of transalpine gaul and cisalpine gaul, even before roman conquest were certainly not identical, even before Roman conquest. Genes mimick geography and as said, the basis of modern day european genetics, including meds were solidly hashed out by the iron age.

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Luis Miller
Luis Miller

sorry for the typos and redundancy in this post btw. I kinda jumped back and forth when typing that a bit too much.

Elijah Cox
Elijah Cox

it's not so far fetched over thousands of years, the Russian steppe is about as far from south Italy as Iran yet nobody would doubt south Italians have steppe ancestry
obviously it didn't travel straight from Iran to Italy but seeped through slowly from neolithic Iran/Mesopotamia to bronze age near east and Anatolia and finally somewhat into SE Europe, linked with Y-DNA J2 and J1 and overall higher west asian-like ancestry with dilution of neolithic Anatolian ancestry
there's a very good correlation altogether, south Italians are very close to bronze age Anatolians, as the papers on Mycenaeans itself had pointed out already
generally speaking, when modelling SE Euros, some bronze age Anatolian sources work quite good

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Landon Sanders
Landon Sanders

End your shitty D&C memes. All italians look the same as they originally did in the roman era and are not racially mixed. If you still don't believe it then check out this article.
Disagreement here about the southern Italian picture. They're faaaaar more swarthy than that.

Hellenized south Italians
They mean real Whites from South Italy who adopted Greek culture, or were there a mix of local and Middle-Eastern imported "Greeks"?

Kayden Brown
Kayden Brown

Says every leftist

Andrew Gutierrez
Andrew Gutierrez

They mean real Whites from South Italy who adopted Greek culture, or were there a mix of local and Middle-Eastern imported "Greeks"?
keep meme labels like "whites" to some racially confused new world shithole and away from serious discussions, thanks
they'd likely be more or less your typical bronze age Aegean type population, the kind that existed ~1200BC in Greece(Mycenaeans) or even kinda like some ~450-100BC colonists from the Greek city of Empuries, in Roman Iberia

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Grayson Robinson
Grayson Robinson

I leave my contribute here.
One of the images has no text so no one can guess what it is.
The other image I guess is distance from a certain gene but we can only read the cientific term.

Effort more, if you can interpert the images improve them.

Thats all

Logan Mitchell
Logan Mitchell

One of the images has no text so no one can guess what it is.
see filename, frequency of the so called J2 paternal line in modern populations, typical as you can observe of west asian populations

The other image I guess is distance from a certain gene but we can only read the cientific term
it's basically euclidean distance based on genomewide(=many many genes, thousands of positions over the whole DNA) principal component analysis, in particular, first 25 principal components
basically, a measure of overall relatedness to the sample specified at the top
Wezmeh_N is a sample from neolithic Iran, from a cave in Wezmeh, ~7500BC
the other, as the name says, a sample from middle-late bronze age Anatolia, ~2500BC

Gavin Russell
Gavin Russell

there is no archealogical evidence for a persian based cultural change in italy or anywhere in europe, unlike what happened with the steppe conquerors. Also, the distance from the home of indo europeans to Rome is 1000 miles less than from perisa to rome. Linguistically the slavic languages are closer to persian than italian and yet nobody claims them to have any persian ancestry.

I find the claim laughable. The anatolian component entered into geographical italy by the neolithic so to argue that a hypothetical persian component carried over from anatolia in the bronze age is not sound and this is assuming said component found in both italy and anatolia is not caucasian (which is geographically far closer). Also, haplogroups are not the same as ethnic ancestry, nor should they be used to argue as such, unless you want to argue that modern day chad is mostly descended from steppe peoples as well. Pic related.

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Nicholas Ramirez
Nicholas Ramirez

those amalgamations were literally made from randomized southern italians, central italians, and north italians.

I'm going to trust that over your hearsay. In my experience there have been a minority of olive skinned italians in all regions at similar frequencies. Not sure why being a bit tan is such a big deal to people. If you take a nordic man and put him in the sun all day for a summer he'll be about as dark looking as your average mexican too. The ancient greeks used to mock fair skinned men as it was a sign of being the ancient equivalent of a neet.

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Jacob Gutierrez
Jacob Gutierrez

there is no archealogical evidence for a persian based cultural change in italy or anywhere in europe
not what I said, I said specifically that nobody is claiming this ancestry came straight into Italy, it's something that seeped through within thousands of years as it's evident from genomewide and uniparental data

Also, the distance from the home of indo europeans to Rome is 1000 miles less than from perisa to rome
distance from neaples to samara(Russia, home of Yamnaya culture): ~3600km
distance from neaples to tehran: ~3900km

Linguistically the slavic languages are closer to persian than italian and yet nobody claims them to have any persian ancestry.
duh, it's because the opposite happened, peoples much more similar to Slavs, Sintashta-like peoples, moved into Iran and not viceversa, which is why you see much of R1a in Iran but not much of J2 in Poland
in the case of Italy, the J2 in Italy didn't magically come from nowhere, given that neolithic Anatolians had pretty much 0% of it and essentially all of them were either G2a or I2a

The anatolian component entered into geographical italy by the neolithic
the NEOLITHIC component entered in the neolithic, but Anatolia changed significantly after the neolithic, which is why the closest peoples to them are found in Europe and not there
literally look at any PCA of ancient samples including neolithic Anatolians and bronze age Anatolians, there has been a progressive dilution of Anatolia neolithic ancestry in Anatolia and increase of iranian related ancestry
the component can in part be caucasian too, in any case, it's something west-asian not present in the neolithic, and it didn't stop at Anatolia, but arrived into SE Europe too, probably linked with the spread of bronze metallurgy from there, which is an archeological context if you wanted one

Also, haplogroups are not the same as ethnic ancestry,
never said so, but haplogroups do not appear by magic, but are spread by peoples which will in fact typically leave some form of autosomal signature too, and posting cherrypicked exceptions doesn't change this

read some actual recent papers and stop with this denial about post neolithic east mediterranean input in SE Europe, is ridiculous and goes against the recent literature

Austin Gray
Austin Gray

If it seeped down through thousands of years then it would also be diluted based in a gradient from persia to italy. It is not. This form of "persian like" ancestry is found highest in both the caucuses and persia and secondarily highest in greece and italy without any sort of decline between the two. That is not typical of what you're describing and you could attempt to make that argument for any type of mischaracterized ancestry. With enough genetic changes comes also the cultural; that is a fact of history.

Also, your distances are way off and I have no idea why you picked naples. If you want to be fair you should pick the center of each area we're discussing like rome. By land there is over 1,300 km of difference between the two with russia obviously being way shorter. That's about a 40% longer trip from tehran than from volograd.

"which is why you see much of R1a in Iran but not much of J2 in Poland in the case of Italy, the J2 in Italy didn't magically come from nowhere"

Again, I've already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that haplogroups do not reflect any accurate measure of ethnic ancestry in my previous reply. I don't know why you keep peddling this garbage other than that there's not much else to support you. Persia has no documented history of colonizing europe, even gradually.

"but Anatolia changed significantly after the neolithic"

the changes that occurred in anatolia after the neolithic during the bronze age were the same that occurred to both italy and greece. Your convinent ignoring of the fact that said component was also found highest in the caucuses is telling though. You seem entirely fixated on iran as if they're the only ones with notable amount of said ancestry. This is more evidenced by you now using the definite term "iranian ancestry" instead of "iranian like ancestry". I think at this point you're just pushing a seperate race mixing narrative with zero concrete evidence.

"Also, haplogroups are not the same as ethnic ancestry,"

"never said so"

Then stop using them as bad supporting evidence since we can agree on that.

"read some actual recent papers"

I've read plenty of recent papers and plenty of old papers on geneaology. I also remember a time in which all europeans were being characterized as 1/3 african. I've seen how fast the wind changes on these silly genetic claims and how garbage the ethnic estimates of these supposed experts can be. Get off your high horse and learn a bit about context and supporting evidence, instead of cock guzzling any stuffed shirt geneaologist with a dubious claim.

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Daniel Jenkins
Daniel Jenkins

tl; dr 0 counter arguments whatsoever and strawmen, absolutely pathetic
keep your denial, I don't care, at least unlike you I can actually work with academic data

Adrian Ward
Adrian Ward

Sounds like that better applies to yourself. Nice two line cop out, though.

Have fun sucking the cock of liberal academia to push a race mixing narrative. Good thing that strategy worked for you so well in the past :^)

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