News 4/13

It's still going unpaid. The tuition hike goes into a reparations fund, not worker salaries.

How you gonna decide who gets reparations? You gonna ancestry test every burger? You fix this by fixing poverty. Help poor people, and because slave descendants are disproportionately poor, they get disproportionate help. Racist institutions need other treatment (i.e. abolishment) but that's not what we're talking about here. Figuring out the math of how much money was extracted and how to repay that accurately is basically intractable (especially since slavery records were deliberately destroyed by the North to curb counterrevolutionary efforts), and it extremely dubious whether that's even the ideal way to deal with the problem.

...

Idk, but there’s been plenty of proposals. Why are you all so keen to protect the money of the richest white porkies in the world. You all recovering Zig Forumsyps or something?

Burger cope

What’s it like to so throughly internalize capitalist piety to the bourgeois.

There's plenty of indefensible proposals for all sorts of retarded ideas. Let's hear one.

Read a fucking book that isn't Settlers.

You have no idea class works, do you?

u funny

The problem with most of these strikers is they refuse to see the bigger picture. They are philosophically illiterate. I am not talking about this strike specifically. Be it in France, the US or everywhere, they just tackle the issue that is important to them and if addressed or let down by their union or whoever they put on strike leadership, simply disperse.

Reddit goons call it a Russian psyop.

Kinda strange how no one reported about the strikes going on in the Gaza strip against the Hamas and the shocking revelation that ISRAELi government supported HAMAS in these.

This is low key a thermonuclear take.

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woops wrong gif

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Is it because saying so hurts your white feelings?

Source: my feelings.

You white boys sure get toastie about porky having to pay back the several hundred years of capital built with slave labor. You sure this isn’t borne form latent racism. I mean you all love Stalin and he didn’t destroy capitalism in one fell swoop either.

No I do, it’s just more understandable to frame it as stolen wages. Yeah slaves got a lot more stolen from than than wages, like their children, their sexuality, Hell even their bodies since they were subject to medical experiments.

But I’m not arguing how it should be done, just whether it should be, and I feel that yes reparations should be done. You all white boys never seem triggered about non white people getting paid by the government for getting hurt by porky. Like when class action lawsuits award white people damages, or all the Japanese that were interned during WWII. Curious, it’s almost as thought this while board is just a Zig Forums colony of Amerimutts smart enough to realize they aren’t anglos,

Not understanding class is always a liberal's first tell.

The source is the article, dumbass. It's a tuition hike.

The slavers are all dead, and so are the slaves. Both are beyond any justice.

No, it's not. It is just factually incorrect.

You mean actually living people who were wronged by other actually living people? Go figure.

The complete in-feasibility of correcting past crimes committed by and against long-dead people is one of the reasons it shouldn't be done. Another is that it doesn't really address class conflict today and will likely undermine solidarity.

Disregarding the exploration of chattel slavery is the first sign of a liberal fash apologist.
Next time just say that. Regardless, so the source couldn't be changed? It's like your don't have a good argument against reparations, and just want it dismissed on technical details?
The capital they were forced to sacrifice their lives to build is still very much around.
All this pretending that all the fortunes porky has weren't built on a foundation of slavery and genocide.
Not really, just leaves out a lot of details.
So decedents of slavers should keep their capital because the original slaver is dead? If I murder your entire family and sell your children into sex slavery, is it okay for my family to keep said wealth?

Your problem is your thought process is completely spooked by the concept of lineage. You're under the very strange delusion that the two historical classes and their descendants have never intermixed in the hundreds of years since the start and end of the institution. What if they have? Should a black American who can trace ancestry to Thomas Jefferson today tax and pay themselves?

LOL WUT
Let me know when it does.
No, it's not. Read Marx.
No, it is factually incorrect, flat-out wrong.
The more you use the word "capital" the more it becomes apparent that you have no idea what it means. Seriously, read Marx.

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Okay where does that capitals isn't built on dead labor?

Volumn I, Part 2, Chapter 4

LOL WUT
Nah, since you're obviously triggered by the vary idea.
Yes it is, Read Marx. Last time I checked slaves were enslaved so they could do shit tons of work producing commodities.
Whatever, that's not why your against reparations. You're against them because your a failson white flight suburbanite acceleratioinist that has so thoroughly internalized zero sum capitalist logic you're afraid of reparations giving black people a comparative advantage to whites.
The more you ignore the role slavery plays in capitalism the more apparent it is that you are a well positioning brainlet fash apologist. Seriously read Marx.

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*fascists aren't liberals.

What does it say?

Produce some quotes nigga.

Hi Leftypol, Yeah doing that shows you ain't got shit.

And slaves produce commodities. How the fuck were they not a part of the process that produced capital. And owning slaves allows you to buy other MoPs, holy shit you're stupid.

There is some massive samefagging going on ITT.

No it's not, black people still suffer disproportionate amounts of state violence and it is ALLLLLLL due to the fact that they lack any kind of property especially relative to whites.
The material legacy of chattel slavery manifests itself in the prison industrial, complex that mostly jails black people, that we have today.
Average black family has $4000 of net worth vs $100,000 of white families. If black people have more property not private property then they will have more power against the state, you know the organ that fucking upholds private property that you fake as white anarchists proclaim to hate so much

SO
Produce some argument please.

You realize we can measure actual net worth and wealth instead of using imperfect proxies like race, right?

Yes, yes, it's completely arbitrary how blacks are so stupidly poorer than whites right? It's not a convincing argument spooked brainlet.

I have. You clearly have not. Capital is only capital when it is invested, transformed into productive forces. Capital accumulation is not the same thing as a family's wealth accumulation, which comes entirely out of revenue.

Whatever my reasons are do not matter. Only the argument itself does.

Hi, /liberty/.

Do you need an infograph to understand? Here's one.

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Slaves were the productive force, they were living breathing MoPs and treated and capitalized as such in capitalism.
Anyway quote Marx where you supports your idea you little Zig Forums well poisoning refugee.
I never said it was, black people are poor because they were de facto stripped of any ability to own property until the 1960s. Their labor as slaves went into building the capital of many current porky corporations and the state. The White House itself was built using slaves.
You’re argument boils down to , you misdefined wage theft and, un Marx set nuh uh without actually citing where Marx said that.
Hmmm didn’t Marx say something about socialism having the scars of capitalism? You sure do love Marx, until following him hurts your white spooks.

Capital is the self-expansion of value. By definition, historical capital is not around today.

Keyword: average. There's plenty of white families in West Virginia and Camden, NJ in that same lot. Go to the Pine Ridge reservation and witness a third world country. Does their plight not count because they're not black?

No. We can actually emancipate all proles instead of playing your weird ethnonationalist games. If your parents are poor or in prison or whatever, who cares how "justified" the reason behind it was? You still don't pick your family and you still inherit nothing.

That has nothing to do with anything. Capital that was invested a hundred and fifty years ago no longer exists.

Christ almighty, it's one page of the most important book in leftist theory. You can read that much.

Yes you did, you lying shit. You said that the same capital from two hundred years ago still exists.

You can't steal wages from slaves, idiot, because slaves never get wages in the first place. Learn to class.

That is a non sequitor. Ithas nothing to do with anything.

Those white people aren't poor due to several hundred years of state oppression.
WUT
This isn't about you or your family, it's about restoring something that was stolen.

No it does since you keep bringing up the fact that slaves weren't proletarians.
Oh yes it does, the white house still exists. So do many of the roads, canals and plantations. Most of the gynecology we still practice today was perfected on black slaves. Anyway cite where Marx supports your argument
What about black women like Henrietta Lacks who's perfectly replicating stem cells which reproduced by the ton today, but since they were collected while she lived in the Jim Crow south she, nor any of her family see anything. There's oodles of cases like this.
Burden of proof is on you. Why is it so hard for you to just cite where Marx supports your argument?
I said I never equated family wealth with capital faggot, which is what you accused me of.
Yes you can you stupid fucking deterministic fuck up. Marx's theory didn't intend to encompass every fucking form of exploitation everywhere. If it's not wage labor it doesn't cease to be exploitative you fucking dumb fash fuck up.
No it's not, you want to dogmatically adhered to Marx when it's convenient to your white spooks, then abandon them and hold me to completely different standards when Marx's philosophy hurts your white spooks.

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Lol, recognizing the legacy of chattel slavery is ethno-nationalism. Go back to Zig Forums.

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I said the white is proof of shit built during the chattel slavery still being around and being employed. Regardless what are you saying faggot, that since the slaves that built the white house weren't building a factory they weren't being exploited. Holy shit, take your reactionary "He's just misunderstood" Zizek shit outta her.

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You sure like to call your opponents "fascists" and "reactionary" a lot when you can't come up with a persuasive argument. Do you actually think that's how you win allies?

Yes, they are.

You can't restore anything to dead people.

None of which is capital, which you would know if you were to ever read a book.

He says this right beneath this line:
Quit lying, faggot. You keep conflating capital with inhereted wealth.

Add "exploitation" to the list of words you do not understand.

You are not citing Marx at all.

Ethnonationalist sentiment is the result of living around non-whites. It’s racial-struggle. Read Gumplowicz. He’s a Jew and even he admitted it

Those slaves are dead, user. The moral argument for reparations (instead of just outright transfer to the whole proletariat) is based on the idea of a denied inheritance, and if you legitimately support inheritance I don't know how you can call yourself a socialist.

No, there was never white chattel slaves, Jim Crow, or COINTELPRO that targeted white liberation movements. Which is what I meant.
No but you can keep living people from benefiting from it.
So if I make millions during slavery, or Jim Crow, or during the current prison industrial complex era, and use said money to buy other MoP, those blacks that I exploited in no way facilitated all the Capital I own because they weren't employees LMAO
Stop being triggered you burger failure. Her continued buying and selling of Henrietta Lacks' cells is capital. It's used in medial experiments that lead to commodified drugs sold through out the world. Yet her and her family continue to see nothing.
Now your saying something a commodity that is not only bought and sold but can replicate itself and produce more commodities isn't capital LMAO.

Slave labored to produce commodities or facilities to circulate them like roads or the white house. They're exploitation goes far beyond wage labor since they could and were raped, and killed at the whim of their slaveholders.
People like Richard Spencer are bourgeoisie now because of the past exploitation of slaver, same with many powerful corporations. Many WWII POWs were enslaved to build up Japanese corporations.
Any, your spooked racist ass doesn't have a leg to stand on. You simply want to let preserve the strangle hold porky has on the current MoP done by perpetuating ridiculous amounts of violence on everyone but especially black people.

So the only argument you have against reparations is that the slaveholders are dead. And that they weren't involved in building capital.
Okay so if I kidnap your child and sell it into sex slavery, but give the money to the criminal organization I was working for, should said gang get to keep it? Even if the state has a means of retrieving it?
For the sake of argument let say I'm killed while selling your child on the black market, since the death of the exploiter is so critical to your defense.

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I'm not making a moral argument. There was chattel slavery and Jim Crow for several hundred years. The people that profited from it remain as bourgeoisie or at least petite-bourgeois into today.
By rectifying this even retroactively you deter any future pushes for forms of proto slavery, like today's prison labor, since society has so strongly materially condemned it.
This also gives you a foundation to address exploitation in wage labor. How can you make a case against wage labor when your society implicitly endorses out and out slavery?
This "communism has to be fully formed" praxis is foolish at best, and purposefully destructive at worse.

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And the slaves. It's a pretty good argument tbh fam

Well good thing it's not up to you.
Even liberals see slavery as beyond the pale and recognize the currently oppression of blacks as the historic material legacy of chattel slavery and see reparations as a way to mitigate it.
Anyways, I'll keep trying to make people whole that have been screwed over by the state and porky while you keep trying to protect the wealth their exploitation created.

So if Richard Spencer is a wealthy porky now because of the plantations his ancestors owned during the slavery days. Those plantations magically shed that dead labor of the slaves that built them, even though they're still around producing commodities.
Did these plantations and other MoP get restored back to their predeveloped state when slavery ended lol.
Oh and what of all the other stupendously horrific stuff like the rape, medial expenses and murder that happened under slavery.
You don't think there should be any recompense for that even though lots of money is made on things like hysterectomies which were perfected on black slaves?
So if a Uber car runs over your kid, you won't sue them if Uber fires the person behind the wheel.
Hahahahaha you're either lying, or such a stupendous cuck that you'll be killed by porky soon enough.

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But the state, and the corporations that profited from the slavery are still around.
I don't buy for a minute that you wouldn't seek compensation if you were hurt by the state or a corporation even if the people that personally perpetrated it were dead. If so then you're just a huge bootlicking cuck.

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Who said anything about making poor white people pay. More butthurt from failson white boys that think rectifying past wrongs for not whites hurts them.

The plans that have been laid out are going to hurt poor people (including poor blacks) and the blame is usually put on white people per se for slavery, so you're living in some alternate reality pal.

Fixed

Fixed.

hahahahaha
What does this have to do with recompense. So people shouldn't have to make someone whole if social media misunderstands what's going on lol
Lol, open a newspaper. Most of the current Democratic candidates nominally support reparations. It's gone mainstream baby!

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It does when you "pay for it" through regressive taxes you shitlib.
The concept is often interpreted as having white people pay for it. Is it even possible to be so ignorant of a topic you're shilling?
Well I guess you are that stupid if you think politicians giving nominal support to a policy means anything.

WRONG
Lol nice strawman of lawsuits. It's to make people whole. If I kill you and you're not around to support your kids they suffer as a result of my actions even if we're both dead.
Compensating your kids would,
1.) make them whole for my action that hurt them
2.) prevent other from being tempted from hurting others in the same manner.
But by all means keep running cover for porky with this bootlicking, you can't really punish porky bullshit.

>Giving money that you stole from poor people to poor people to assuage your huwite guilt with empty virtue signaling instead of actually fixing structural problems hurts them
Well, yeah.

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Then don't pay them that way shitlib
So? Make the media inform people that's not what it is. Oh let me guess, the media is impotent too in your eyes.
Lol, this from a person with endless butthurt about trying to rectify the horrific legacy of chattel slavery.
Right, I'm stupid for thinking a policy that was considered extreme fringe for decades that is now being talked about regularly in the mainstream, might have a chance of becoming reality. Lol, how do you think things gain support?

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Why are you stuck on "punishing porky" instead of making people's lives better? If you try to sue the super rich they are going to beat you with legal jiu jitsu.

That is the most mainstream proposal, using a consumption tax. You should make an attempt to learn what you're talking about before advocating it.
You have to be 18 to use this site.
Who is telling the media what to say in this scenario? Who is the subject of your imagined reparations plans? The media isn't impotent, but it's not their fucking job to inform people. What board do you think this is?
If there was a coherent plan that might fix these problems that could plausibly get traction I would support that. All this nonsense going on with the dems right now is pure virtue signalling.
Yes.
Radicals agitating and scaring the ruling class into making concessions to avoid having their stuff taken.

>D-d-d-d-d-d-don't sue institutions into scalping proles of all races to fund absurd moralistic virtue signaling gestures, ze dindu nuffin

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The less poor people are, the more they can push back against the state.
Uh huh
What about:
Class action Smoking lawsuits
Class action Auto Safety lawsuits
Class action teflon lawsuits.
Class action wage theft lawsuits
all successful.
I'm not endorsing the liberal legal system, but your narrative that porky is omnipotent is just objectively false bootlicking.

You need to be fired from whatever PR firm you work for.

If that's your standards for "success" and what you think would address the damage of chattel slavery then you're basically a white supremacist.

I think it's like a retarded law student who's trying to apply today's lecture in an online argument.

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Lol nice changing the goal posts. You've made it clear your against reparations altogether, not simply how they might be administered.
You got so stupendously butt hurt you forgot what point you were trying to make here.
The state can, it can be a part of the settlement since what white people think about all this is so precious to you.
Black people that are decedents of slaves. Which is most black people in the US, there was not mass migration of black people after the abolishiment of slavery like there was in the 1800's of cumskins.
The state can make them, and they've done so with these types of suits before. The smoking companies were forced to pay for anti-smoking ads.
Lol bullshit, the reaction against the civil rights movement is more than enough to disprove that. Before you say a lot of white people supported the civil rights movement let me just say it was a civil rights struggle because the majority of white people supported it lol
Agreed, but they're memeing it because it has support from their base.
Well than you're an idiot if you think something becoming mainstream can't snowball into a movement and subsequent change, happened a million times before.
You can't agitate the ruling class into shit. You only get concessions when you threaten their power, like when a majority of people want something they ain't getting

How is getting millions into the hands of people that were hurt not a form of success. What's your definition of success, smug righteous indignation on a Mongolian Cave Painting enthusiast board?
Dafaq are you even talking about. Reparations would make black people less poor. Being less poor means less vulnerability from exploration from the state and real fascists. Since you actually are a fascists you want this vulnerability to be preserved.

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>just because every effort at "reparations" consists of stealing money out of labor's left pocket for the humble gesture of putting some at best of it in their right pocket doesn't mean that's what all slavery "reparation" efforts are
Show me one single instance of this actually coming out of progressively redistributive taxes, instead of being thieved from innocent working class comrades.

Further, tell me why a one-time cash payment would do anything more than past failures of myopic particularist idpol thinking, like affirmative action quotas, as compared with idpol-blind efforts that would simultaneously yield gratitude from poor whites AND disproportionately help blacks due to the very unfairness of the structural issues you're ignoring.

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Pic related. Ohhhh you wanna move those goal posts so so so bad doncha. Proposals can't be changed right? If something is coopted by liberals even once it's fiat forever.
UH OH
Better abandon anarchism, since there anarcho capitalist, so that makes you a capitalist. Nope don't try to say otherwise, there tons more prominent ancaps then there are archaists.
Lol, tell me, how does letting people get away with crimes even liberals have agreed are egregious help prevent said crimes from happening in the future.
ahahahahahahahaahaha now I know you're a Zig Forumsyp, there were never any quotas. They just made employers post job openings where PoCs would see them a few other very light regs.
Lol, more, if you help blacks only there no way you can help white people as well in other ways, you've used up all your turns!

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It doesn't matter. Absolutely everyone is a victim of systemic state repression. It is the nature of the state.

Why? It is no more beneficial for black people to have a given quantity of money than it is for white people to have it. Neither of them are related to the historical wrongdoings in question anyway.

Why should they inherit wealth?

It is not the same capital. Capital is only capital until it is realized as money. M-C-M. Subsequent capital investment is a seperate and independent circuit produced by an entirely different calculation. Each M is an extreme pole not simply a recurring node in an endless M-C-M-C-M-C-M-C-M-etc. You would understand that if you were to read

"Exploitation" has a specific meaning in marxist terminology, that being the extraction of surplus value. Rape and killing have fuck-all to do with it. Speaking of which, don't delude yourself into believing that you cannot be raped or killed at the whim of the ruling class. Just ask anyone who has been to prison.

I don't even know what Richard Spencer does when he is not being punched in the face.

You don't know me, you problematic cis-het neurotypical able-bodied white male shitlord.

Which you seem to think means wypipo.

Lel. What is this fresh idealist idiocy?

Lol.

This shit is like the inverse of the Abrahamic notion of "original sin"–being black is some kind of "original virtue" to you.

kek

I'm sure that would be appreciated by its recipients about as much today as the other period proposal of an all-expenses-paid trip to Liberia
The victims and perpetrators are long dead, and the overwhelming majority of Americans today aren't blood related to either.
There certainly were, even openly before lawsuits began, and they continue to be put in place by the overzealous in secret. Regardless, affirmative action extends well beyond "light regs" or "advertising", even in the employment sphere.
Even ignoring the racebaiting divisiveness of reparations and other idpol circus acts, what's to say this would actually help anyone who needs it? Do blacks get a check in the mail regardless of income? How is that any different from welfare? Where does this money come from? Who oversees this?

The entire thing is nonsensical.

How does that make the commodities and the subsequent fortunes that were kept by slaveholders not make the exploited? What about the rape and murder they suffered? Does Marx say that people who murder others shouldn't be de-incentived by making it unprofitable? Was Marx against stuff like class action lawsuits.
Slavery is a form of violent oppression far beyond simple wage labor.
How are plantations and roads that produced commodities sold on the market now "realized as money"?
Uh no I can't. Which is why myself and the vast majority of people are not. And when the bourgeois do try to get away with this stuff, sometimes they do, but many times they don't, or they do but it's a Pyrrhic victory. Litterally look at any of the wars they started in the last 50 years.
How is working for nothing your whole life not an "extraction of surplus value".
I have, and guess what trait the majority of them share. Oh that's right they were all from stupendously poor backgrounds. It's like having property goes along way to mitigating the porky's ability to "rape and kill at a whim". And it's like undermining that monopoly of violence that they use to enforce private property makes the proletariat stronger.
It's like you're using vulgar Marxism to argue the preservation of that monopoly of violence. Just kidding that's exactly what you are doing.

The wealth and their benefactors are not.
t. Zig Forumsyp
No, chattel slavery and Jim Crow are what was racially divisive.
I'm not here to argue how reparations should be done. Only to argue whether doing them in the presumable "right way" would help myself, which it would. I'm not black BTW, just working class.

Do you lick your boots plain, or with toppings of some sort?

Okay where do chattel slaves fit in within Marx's critique if they weren't being exploited for surplus value.
Were the commodities they produced not sold on the market like that of a worker? What were they then, because they were pretty widely used for producing either commodities or superstructure like roads, the aforementioned White House, etc?
Do slaves fit anywhere in Marx's critique. Do people who are enslaved have no claim to being exploited and therefore entitled to compensation in a Marxist point of view?

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Who are these people? Who aren't these people?
Which is why those explicit forms of oppression are gone, from explicit laws against them. As opposed to the implicit oppression that persists only on inertia from them under cover of other (non-idpol) explicit oppression that still exists.
What if there is no way they can be done, and any effort to carry out your windmill jousting will actually involve doing something completely different, serving an agenda you're too delusional to acknowledge?

But those people were never made whole. Something doesn't cease to be harmful once it's stopped. If I stab you you'll still suffer even after I stop stabbing you. In other words historical materialism.

I wouldn't, because I'd be dead. It's kind of hard to do things when you're dead.