Who should I vote for in the upcoming EU elections? Is there even any point to it?
2019 European Parliament election
Vote for the communist party, of course.
Considering it takes literally just 30 min of your time on a Sunday you'd otherwise spent watching Filipino dwarf porn, yes.
Vote however you need to to make the parliament as anti-EU as possible.
You'd be doing more for the cause by lecturing people for 30 minutes outside the front doors when the polls open. Then they'd vote for the communist party, you yourself don't, and they'd walk out with a new outlook even if it's clear they "wasted" (lmao rhetorical) their votes.
We have two communist parties. One of them is the actually-existing-socialism nostalgia group who are known for their support of the ruling party and their good relations with actual fascists. The other does not run but told their supporters to vote for the neoliberal "socialists". I think I'll pass.
One doesn't exclude the other. If you make 20 people vote correctly, then obviously that's a good substitute. It's still bullshit to boycott elections, it's not qualitatively different from other action like building dual power or do union work.
Which country are you from?
Is that the first one you talked about?
How have they cooperated with the ruling party?
They did not cooperate, at least not publicly, but after the election Thürmer congratulated Orbán and told everyone that the Hungarian workers made a good decision by voting for him, since Orbán is doing the same things they would do by providing stability and security.
More than half the people don't show up to vote. If they did the entire election could change. Idiots who stay home are just declaring themselves betas who like to be told what to do
What if there's no one to vote for, though?
There's always someone to vote for, whether you want to vote leftie or accelerationist. You can either vote for the most leftist/accelerationist candidate; or if they're unbearable, vote for their biggest enemy.
Probably the party in your country standing for GUE/NGL (Party of European left: leftist, euroskeptic), if you don't like that party or whatever there's also the Greens (European Green Party: centre left/left) or S&D (Party of European Socialists: centre left probably the most popular centre left party in your country) but they're both pro EU (unless you like that I guess). Kinda depends on the parties you get to vote for and what they're like in your country
What does accelerationist mean here? Should I vote for the neo-Nazis?
here is who voted for article 13 in Germany, fuck them
Oh my God what the fuck is wrong with the CDU.
I am really unsure this time.
I won't vote Die Linke as long as Kipping and Riexinger are in charge. Fuck these faggots, they want to turn it into a second SPD with all it's flaws and are even willing to go into coalition with them and the Greens despite right-wingers being in the majority (and thankfully they are in decline and will never get a majority).
But thankfully to the dismay of the establishment a court removed the hurdle so any party that reaches 0.5% can get it.
So either it's die PARTEI, helping Martin and Nico get their second seat, or Diem25 helping Valve Hat man.
Can I get you to vote for the DKP? DieLinke are awful, PARTEI is a joke party, and DiEM are super-hyper-reformist even though slightly more appealing than DieLinke.
We got 0,15% at the last Bundestagswahl, and didn't even run in half the states. This time we run everywhere and 0,5% isn't unrealistic.
…and this time we also have a proper program.
- out of the EU and NATO
- immediate stop to all provocations to Russia, peace with Russia
- stop PESCO
- no compromises with the European imperialist bourgeoisie
- cancel all debts
- pay all debts by nationalizing all banks and collectivize all corporations
Why do ever "communist" party's program has ten pages about how Putin never did anything wrong and we should all suck his dick? Makes them really hard to take seriously.
Becoming a classcuck after gaining power is not specific to socdems, it's the fate of everyone who foolishly still believe that they can use the state as a tool against capital.
Yes, Lenin and Stalin, they absolutely became classcucks after they got in power, right
Leftcom you are not even trying.
That's a fact.
I am not ignoring it, Marx was simply wrong in this regard. Shocking, I know.
If you looked at the graph carefully you'd realize that the Die Linke voted no to the proposal unanimously except for one abstention.
The SPD has always been shit but if you're going to criticize Die Linke this isn't the argument you want to make.
Vote for "Movimento 5 stelle"
If you are from Germany, vote the MLPD!
Don't actually do this. They think Cuba is authoritarian state capitalism and are a full-on cult. You literally need a "mentor" if you want to join them and need to complete a set of tasks.
I know they superficially come over as based with their Stalin posters in neighbourhoods, their comfortable financial situation, their "no compromise" type of line, but this isn't actually true. They only punch above their weight in elections because of their money, they aren't even half the size of the DKP.
How did Lenin and Stalin became classcucks? Are you trying to argue they became their own class? lol
Politics that refuses to discuss socioeconomics is a joke.
Also Martin does indeed have leftist viewpoints. There is a reason why conserfs hate him guts and repeatedly try to discredit him, like the hipster lifestylist magazine bento (whose author turned out to be a member of the CDU ironically) or very recently that queer mag, whose author got triggered over his voting method.
Concerning DiEM. Varoufakis turned a 300 man company into a monopoly and I'd like to think he has a plan that will work out in the long run. The campaign, the German media ran against him was fucking ridiculous. They discredited an entire scientific-mathematical field just to get at him and they took literally everything that made him look bad and presented it on a silver tabled for the majority of uncritically thinking Germans to see. Thus the collective shitting in their pants, when Jan Böhmermann "revealed" it was "fake". Since they took that particular middle finger from his Varoufakis music video and didn't checked for alternative sources. To go THIS far just proves to me, they think this guy is dangerous.
Concerning DKP, I'll consider it. The ones in my neighbouring cities seem based enough, expect for some members I ideologically disagree with, because it's their way or the highway kinda thing.
Holy SHIT, will you ever get the PvdA flag right?
Ever since the conception YEARS ago I tried to make it clear that it is the flag of the BELGIAN PvdA, who are actually leftist. I am not even sure the Netherlandish PvdA has a flag. But it is certainly not this one.
Sorry, but you are too cultish for me.
Bourgeois representative "democracy" doesn't work, it's not just a matter of succdems being soft. We need to fight for a political system that can't be subverted by bribing the leadership (because there isn't one).
I actually like Varoufakis, but I just think his plan is too idealist/reformist for it to be able to actually work. He's willing to break bread with neoliberals in order to get his reforms in the pipeline, he has said so on multiple occasions. The reason he was smeared so badly is because he was questioning German imperialism in Greece, questioning the entire legitimacy of the neoliberal system within the EU which was dangerous for the German elites who profited so much from it. Ironically now he's become a target of the Antideutsche because he speaks in favour of Assange who they think is an antisemite, also he appeared on RT which triggers them as well. DIEM has been hit hard with antisemitism smears recently.
I like their democratic bottom-up structure, communists certainly should try to permeate it and push it to the left.
In regards to Die PARTEI, it's just that I've made personally very bad experiences with their members. A bunch of them came to the UZ Pressefest to "troll", and then got subsequently kicked out and removed by the security, which caused them to throw a fit on Twitter about the evil Stalinists.
You'll find the DKP currently has a good midway between non-sectarianism and sectarianism, you can have fairly different opinions in the DKP, it's not like the tightly controlled MLPD. The problem of the DKP was that it was too open for "new ideas" in the period 1991-2014, we got all kinds of revisionists and people who wanted to support DieLinke so far that they have told their voters not to vote for the DKP and vote for DieLinke. This was very harmful and didn't help the party at all (which has its problems, especially with the old age of most of its members). In my local chapter, I sometimes feel like an elderly care nurse whenever there is a meeting. We have a guy who literally was in Dachau concentration camp.
Nothing is more normal than for revolutionary workers to insult Stalinists, thus gaining the support of nearly all their comrades, since they want to make a revolution. Do they not know, having been taught by their long experience, that the preliminary step is to expel Stalinists from meetings? Not being able to do this is why the revolution failed in 1968 in France and in 1975 in Portugal.
Stalin was dead at that point. 1968 wouldn't have been successful either way, and 1975 they got backstabbed by SocDems. But whatever, it's not like you are here to argue in good faith or something
Wrong! It's a satirical party and despite Dieter Nuhr's best efforts, satire in Germany was always political as fuck!
I haven't seen the political backbone cabaret had in Germany throughout its history within Die PARTEI.
Have you listened to one of Sonneborn's speeches?
Cuba is not a socialist country anymore. There are privat companies in Cuba. And what do you mean with "full-on cult"?
First, you need money for a communist revolution and second, the MLPD has more voters than the DKP.
The MLPD denies that Cuba was ever socialist, they claimed that before Cuba legalised small private property.
The fact that they had the same chairman for 40 years and now have his daughter-in-law taking over, while releasing articles praising him like they do it with Bob Avakian. The fact you need a "mentor" to join, their extremely sectarian attitude, the fact they try to isolate you from your family and friends when you join, etc.
I don't deny this. I am saying they are able to mobilise more voters because of their money, not because of their grounding in the working class.
you vote the one who is the less piece of shit possible
you missed PSOE
they did not classcuck because they became the new ruling class
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
What is Die PARTEI like? Only thing I know about them is that they had a demonstration in solidarity with the Hungarian workers: youtube.com
Random, really depends where you are.
Usually leftish, most people vote them, because they are fans of Martin Sonneborn and (he said so himself in one moment of seriousness) because you ran out of options and there is nothing else for you to vote.
Albeit Anti-Germans and BAK Shalom took notice of it's rising popularity and started to play their tankie games like they do so in the Green and in the Left. I'd avoid them if you are in Koblenz for example.
what the hell did good ol kropotkin do god fucking damn it?
They are the new left for old people.
read it again
bumping this thread as the day of election is getting closer
Good on those communists. Seriously, fuck the EU and all neoliberals. Hell, even Orban is too soft on the Euroskepticism.
It depends on the country really. Some countries, i'd say vote for the far-right party. (They're often economically center-left anyways.) Others, there is a left-wing nationalist/euroskeptic option. Occasionally, you have the based populist party like FSM in Italy to vote for, but the worst cases like Britain really only leave you with a single issue Brexit party or UKIP. (I'd even vote for SarSassenach just to spite the journos and the antifa brainlets who throw milkshakes around.)
Orbán is a neoliberal. He's abolishing workers' rights step by step and his foreign minister even proudly admitted that they are making laws on demand to provide cheap labour and endless overtime to his friends in the German automotive industry. His euroscepticism is a farce, he would never leave the EU as his private economic empire is kept alive by the EU money he steals and would suffocate without it.
The same is mostly true for all the other far-right parties that are becoming increasingly popular because of their stances on migration. There's a good reason they can't stop talking about how it is the only issue that matters as on every other issue they side with Capital against labour.
I recommend you do not talk about shit that you are evidently clueless about.
Based "supporting open borders to own the fascists" user
What are you even doing on a leftist board? Don't you have capitalist dick to suck?
I noticed actually that the more far-right you are, the less economically liberal you are.
Basically, more moderate people like Orban, UKIP, PVV, and etc tend to be more liberal economically.
Meanwhile, Le Pen's platform is basically succdem tier, the BNP is effectively Asserist, and Jobbik basically rejects neoliberalism.
Your claim that it's 'mostly true' for 'far-right parties' is retarded. Firstly, you confused the more moderate anti-immigration parties with the actual radical nationalist parties. Secondly, the majority of non-Anglo populist parties are not neoliberal. Italy's populists aren't neoliberals, France's aren't, Czechoslovakia basically had an anti-immigration social democrat before he was overturned in a recent election, and I can keep going on.
Honestly, the Communists should have supported Jobbik, but you're not going to get that in a climate where the anti-capitalist, ultranationalist far-right is completely taboo.
One of the biggest biases the mainstream meteor has is bring extremely pro-EU. I get why capital loves the EU, but why is it that big a priority?
Jobbik went through a reformation, they are now a plain conservative people's party and are to the left of Orbán. Why do you keep talking about shit you know nothing of? I get that it sounded good in your head but it has nothing to do with the real world.
They like the common market, obviously.
Reread the post
Vote for whoever you want the EU parliament is just a very weak attempt by an imperialist power to uphold the spectacle of a democratic decision mechanism basically a rubberstamp bullshit organization. I think the best decision is not be complicit in legitimizing neocolonialism and imperalism so staying away from voting you can spend that 30 minutes better.
All these people who hint that you should vote for Orban etc. should really start getting into materialist analysis before they get the wall.
It's ending today comrads, what are your predictions
Went out and brushed my teeth.
Had to do this, or they will turn brown.
At least we don't have a 5% hurdle and everyone who gets 0,6% can actually get in.
The bourgeois cartel tried repeatedly to jam this leak and even forced the entire EU to adapt a law that only concerned Germany for this, so they can circumvent Germany courts (since you need European courts to debate European laws), but it may bite them in the arse when these are enacted, because the CSU will most likely not make it over their own hurdle.
Dunno about all Europe, but at least for Germany I got
Is that a low or high estimation, or what are you hoping for?
If you are from NA read: lolberts
WTF did these people come from in krautland, especially something as big as the FDP? Even in burgerlard, they spontaneously coalesced out of sheer concentrated retardation in the late 1970s from the fringes of the survivalist/sovereign citizen/John Bircher/conspiratard movements, with any sort of formal backing like CATO or the ALP following opportunistically. If this is some horrible crossatlantic import, you have my apologies.
Low. they polled north of 30% last time.
You think I root for conservatives in a left-wing radical board?
There is a natural law in Germany that prevents conservatives to ever go below 30%. Getting as low as 27% is very optimistic, but it may be something between 29-31% actually.
They were always here. It's just that liberals in the rest of the world are centrist to right-wing and North America does not have a proper term for it (also due to mislabelling) so I took the closest thing there is to them, although classical liberals are more along the borders of blue and purple.
And fun fact in the rest of the world libertarians are left-wing, though without the centrism that plagues the DNC liberals.
It's as if North Americans got liberals and libertarians mixed up.
I thought their bases overlap significantly with AfD so a high result for them could mean lower support for the fascists. I did not mean to offend you.
They do, but also with the Greens (high income group and it's hip to be square).
Which basically means cater to one group and you'll lose the other. Merkel is perfect for this job, since she's a blairist but actually doesn't pretend to be socdem at all. The right-wing idiots in her party do not realise what favour she is doing them and thus saw on her powerbase.
CDU also has a large support among businessmen, petit-bourgs, people who think they are wealthy but are actually not, farmers (which are heavily subsided), industrialists (as proven by the latest Diesel scandal you could say, the CDU is their political arm), and last-time voters.
The fact that the last in the list is eroding quite quickly makes them do stupid things like drifting hard to the right. But the CSU got punished for this in Bavaria, losing votes to the AfD (why vote for a cheap knockoff, when you can go for the original racists?), Greens and Free Voters.
I had gotten the general impression, at least before the likes of the FDP, that such tendencies in the EU were just generic porkies desirous of greater overreach for the financial sector, and a handful of deluded proles starstruck by "mainstream economics". As compared with the utopian ("pure" capitalism, zero government. etc.) distilled quintessence of classcuckoldry that is AynCrap, which I assumed came into being with burger lolberts.
And more neoliberalism as the supposed End of History™, thus feeding the underlying causes of fascism today. No thanks.
CDU had people like Gauland and Steinbach who are no in the AfD.
Former Prime Minister of Hessen Koch was never afraid to use right-wing bullshit in his campaigns and his successor Bouffier covers two Nazis suspected in murder, because they are affiliate with the constitutional protection of Hessen.
Maaßen was the last case, Seehofer tried his best to cover him, even promoted him, but that unthankful bastard continued to spout right-wing bullshit, even called the socdems SPD a "left-wing extremist party" The fucking audacity.
Well, yeah, not disputing that. Same with the UK Tories vs. NF/BNP/UKIP.
Yeah, the burger strain of "no gubberment don't tread on me" tier Libertarianism/AynCrap was never really popular in Germany and only came into being through the US spilling their shit over the Atlantic, now you have plenty of younger guys in the FDP and the AfD which will be the future elite of these parties that are basically burger lolberts.
A lot of the arguments I hear since a few years ("muh voluntary consent", "taxes are theft", "gommunism has killed 100 gazillions", etc.) are entirely new in the German political hemisphere, and it's quite clear to me that they all come from the US. Because they are new, the old ossified mainstream parties have a hard time responding to them, because they are not used to this type of ideological grounding.
And the first results are in:
halved, maybe for the better
slight gains, who the fuck are those people?
lost their seat, good riddance
slight gains, regain their one seat, because the previous one defected
slight gains, Greens, but conservative. I mean even more so, since the main Greens shifted to the right considerable already.
TRIPPLED their seats, they aimed for double at best.
Yepp, the Reddit party made it
ZDF: 10,5% (they haven't specified the small fries yet)
Why did people vote for Macron's party, I thought he was universally despised?
Is Die PARTEI good news for us?
Didn't vote because I don't recognize the legitimacy of any government body.
They are satirists who lean left.
Not sure if good, but they are definitely not bad news either compared to the other clowns.
Results from Hungary.
How did ADLE grow so much, I was told neoliberalism is already dying?
Dude I voted for Brexit but your argument could apply to every state ever. It's besides the point and it's silly semantics when you post redundant stuff like that.
Mostly due to Macron
I thought Macron was universally hated.
Not at all, neolibs are presenting themselves here in the US as the "sane way forward." I'd imagine the same is happening in Europe.
My understanding that the old PS collapsed and the majority – including the bulk of the PS institutions, puppet unions, and think tanks – who didn't follow Mélenchon or Hamon's splinters folded into Macron's party
Lemme guess, there's also been a seemingly random explosion of Evangelical Christians in Europe as well? The US is actively doing this shit in Latin America and East Asia; the two are directly tied to one another.