Democratic members have increasingly expressed support for a physical barrier on the U.S.-Mexico border over the course of immigration negotiations, making it harder for party leaders to ignore their positions.
Prior to the lengthy partial government shutdown, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer seemed to have complete control over the members of his party, even those who had expressed support for the wall during election campaigns.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — then the House minority leader — promised that she would not appropriate a single dollar to the wall, despite Trump’s promise of a shutdown if he did not receive $5.7 billion to build on the border.
But a number of rank and file Democrats have since said that they support a physical barrier in concert with other border security measures, perhaps due to pressure from the extended shutdown and a desire to prevent another one.
In a strange twist of fate, Trump might be outplayed by the Dems as they approve their own version of the Wall. Leaving Trump looking like an idiot. They could win in 2020 if they take credit for better border security.
People are stupid but not that stupid
Is Trump. He could have just ordered the military to build it. Even if he didn't technically have that authority, the military would've followed his order anyway. Fuck, if he would've went on TV and said "American citizens, please volunteer to come help me build the wall," I bet 100000 motherfuckers would've showed up.
That probably would work out just as well as pig iron under Mao Zedong, huh?
I'm a democrat and a machinist+welder.
I support a "Great Wall of China" type concrete wall NOT a metal fence I can get through in under 5 minutes and any avg Mexican can get through in under a hour with simple tools from a hardware store.
Shit you already lost, son. You could have just said "I'm an american" and yeah okay, maybe you'd have a chance then.
Such BS… Dems don't want it, Republicans won't p a y for it either..
You're an idiot. A concrete wall block the view of boarder patrol. The point is to slow down boarder hoppers so that it takes less people to patrol the boarder. If they try to climb over/dig under/or go through they will be caught before they succeed. A wall would prevent boarder patrol agents from seeing any of those things. They don't patrol on foot so unless you want them to build a wall that is thick enough for two cars to pass by eachother, you're going to have to settle for the fence.
Why doesnt the usa just invade and annex mexico at this point. If their people are trying to get out so bad then theyve failed as a government and they need a better one put in place.
This isn't a pirate ship, you fucking retard
That would be our "Nazi Germany invades Poland" moment. We aren't quite there yet.
White men only fight when white women nag them to. White women haven't experienced poverty since the 30s, so white women are keeping the status quo for now. Give it a few years, wait til white women are actually "oppressed." Then you'll have your war.
No, that moment will be when the US government tries to take control of California back from the cartels. China, Russia, and Israel will aid the poor oppressed Mexicans at that point…
Cameras, motion and heat sensors. Like an army airfield. If you rely on physically seeing something ahead of you along something that's thousands of miles you're fucked. Plus if anything, viewing distance from atop a wall is longer vs trying to see thru slits ground level.
Democrats have built a big portion of the wall in place now. Trump wants to build the great wall of America there, displacing people who live there and spending to build a wall in desolate locations where people will simply use a ladder or build a tunnel. Democrats see value in a wall where major crossings take place, but if Trump wants the all inclusive luxury package he is going to need to finalize a plan for the dreamers and other migrant issues, not just kick it down the road a few years.
my house has four walls around it. does that make me a commie too?
they should just end the war on drugs and tax the markets. it costs nothing and makes money. the war on drugs is a endless war that has gotten countless people arrested and killed.
and here i was worried about some toxic feminism movement that would trick women into thinking they were the victims because they weren't going to war with men and getting shot at and blown up.
as a concept it works but it sounds like it would cost a lot.
Military nothing. They could have passed a bill to build it AT ANY TIME during those first two years but chose not to because they were waiting for the inevitable (partial) takeover by Dems in the midterms to try to portray them as obstructionists.
The GWoC was built to do one thing: prevent invasion forces via horseback. A six-foot-tall stone wall doesn't prevent people, even large numbers of people, from scaling it and crossing it. But it does prevent people from bringing tens of thousands of horses, because it's kinda hard to make cranes to lift them over (and horses don't like this!). The reason this was effective was because there was a shitton of space between where the Mongols were and where the Chinese were, a space that an invading army would HAVE TO cross via horseback. In particular, the Mongols used their mobility to launch surprise attacks before the defenders knew what hit them; an army coming on foot would be spotted far in advance leaving the Chinese plenty of time to fortify their defenses.
An analogy would be a border wall that would prevent people from crossing en masse by car (not difficult at all; you just need some big pylons) because the closest US cities are in fucking North Dakota which is a distance too far for people to walk. But that's not the case. A simple physical barrier CANNOT stop people from crossing it on their own two legs.
Dem and repubs have been building portions of the wall for decades. Youre a naive fool to think a wall will be built coast to coast just as you were for thinking mexico would pay for it. Idiots.
Government assistance and tax credits lifted 6.2 million working-class whites out of poverty in 2014, more than any other racial or ethnic demographic. Half of all working-age adults without college degrees lifted out of poverty by safety-net programs are white; nearly a quarter are black and a fifth are Hispanic."
Nah they won't win in 2020 by doing that, if they want a wall to turn into a win they put it up after winning 2020 as so to Pressure Rand Paul **at this point a very very strong 2024 front runner*"
They've been building a fence. Most of the border has been protected by fences and barriers (better ones in more populated areas) for decades. That's not the same as a wall. Nobody ever thought that a fence was the same as a wall. Trump was elected partially based on a promise to build something entirely unlikely the fences that already exist.
Fences worked for Hungary. Dropping immigration over their borders from tens of thousands per day to almost zero.
The dems straight up voted for and approved 300 miles of border wall in 2014 under Obama. They aren't opposed to the border wall it seems, the party line is just "resist Trump." For no other reason than the fact that they do not like him. They're actually not even playing the role of honourable opposition at all - they're just being babies at this point wailing and throwing a temper tantrum. Border security and physical barriers on the border have been a campaign highlight of modern politics since Clinton in the mid 90's.
There's no need for the shut down at all. The president hasn't even asked for anything the dems haven't themselves already approved in the past. It's really quite silly all around.
Most of the poverty in the world is faced by men. Just going to throw that out there. Across all societies women are afforded more safety nets. There are a great many more homeless men than women.
You're a bigger faggot than OP is
So you are going to what, patrol thousands of miles of wall on foot? Place an agent in a tower ever mile or two? Unless you make it so a vehicle can safely drive on wall you are going to be paying for at least a thousand more border patrol. Thats probably $100,000,000 minimum a year. It won't get approved in the budget or will get cut as soon as Democrats get control. That means you now wasted several billion building something that now prevents the border patrol from doing their job.
The other option of making it so a vehicle can drive safely on top. That means you will need to level and pack the ground for a solid foundation, you will need engineers to check off on its ability to hold the weight, etc etc. It will cost an obscene amount of money, and be expensive to maintain (still a better option than fucking turrets). On top of all that it will take more than a decade to finish. That means another decade of open borders. Or you know you can give the border patrol what they want which is a barrier they can see through.
They want a plan to address the current issues in country to be designed in tandem with preventitive future measures. Its very reasonable and its certaimly a negotiating tactic both aides have used a million times - thats how compromise happens if your president isnt a retard who in business didnt pay his debts and is accustomed to winning by shameless bullying. Too bad Daddys money doesnt create leverage for him in politics, he might actually have to make a real deal.
Sure is. I've never seen so much damage control in one thread.
As they should!!
Good for them. Start protecting this nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just want to say that your spelling and grammar in that post is All Fucked Up. Please do not drink on the job. The filename on your picture seems to have a funny coded message of some sort. Israel is our greatest ally.
Of course it did. Because there are plenty of other countries for the refugees to go to. But there is nowhere else for immigrants traveling north from Mexico to go except for the USA.
Are you fucking high?? The only one who buckled was Trump after his insane shutdown didn't produce funding for the wall, so he literally gave up on it.
Here's an idea. Big fancy wall, THEN a baby fence afterwards to solve literally every issue you're bringing up.
I is JDF
I'm sure if we actually make a fence out of dead babies, that will do a great deal to dissuade immigrants from coming to the USA. Surprised Trump hasn't thought of that one yet.
No. Democrats know we need the wall just as much as Republicans do. They all know that unrestrained immigration and poor border security will fuck us all. It's just that the wall is really poor optics. Neither side wants to be blamed for it so they drag their feet. Furthermore the Democrats position is muddied because of the demographic issue. While it's true that massive Latin American immigration will fuck all of the US, said immigration fill fuck Republicans first and harder. So Democrats have found themselves playing a dangerous game of chicken where in they allow in enough immigrants (and pander to said immigrants) to give them a permanent edge in the poll but not so many that those immigrants will start dictating the platform of the party. I'm sure that many higher ups in the Democratic party recognize the dangers that Latinos pose to their standard Western progressive agenda. Latinos are rather strongly religious and socially conservative, though not necessarily in the conventional way we're accustom. Latinos really don't like gays. Latinos don't really like blacks either and further compounding that they adhere to the "reverse one drop rule". Latino countries tend to swing back and forth between socialism and fascism. There's also the Aztlan issue which could result in a massive number of immigrants taking over the southwest seceding from the US and taking prime Democrat territory along with them. It's a clusterfuck.
No, we don't. From the very beginning it's been a metaphor that Trump was too fucking stupid to realize doesn't actually mean a goddamn wall.
Q's DS psyop "Operation White Rabbit" is serving you your own balls for dinner with a spot of tea.
Muslims traditionally don't care much for kikes. Didin't stop them from importing millions of them to the U.S. Perhaps they can't see past the end of their hooked nose and really don't know wtf they're doing.
This is why I really hate politics. Both sides KNOW what is best for the country, yet they fight over who will actually take action rather than just working together and taking measures to defend our nation. All because they want to be re-elected. Thats why I came up with a motto fro voters: ALL incumbents out (doesn't matter which side they are on).
Oldfag dems are creating a rift between them and the newfag dems, essentially further sharding the Dem party, which is ironic since they're hellbent on rifting the American people anyways.
It'd create jobs. And towers could increase field of vision from 1 mile to 3 easily, especially with basic shit like binoculars or rifles provided and that's an underestimation.
Here's a plan: fuck the "dreamers". Illegals are illegals and we shouldn't have exceptions for any reason. If you weren't born here, and you don't have papers, you should be deported, end of story.
I support some kind of distinctive facial tattooing, mutilation, or scarring on those we deport, to more easily identify them if they try again. Maybe some sort of electronic tagging would be better with today's modern technology. Mandatory sterilization may be advisable.
We need to remember that constitutional protections only apply to Americans, and we are free to do with these people as we see fit. I think a policy of discouragement through cruelty ought to be tried. I bet they'd stop trying to come in at all if the ones we caught wound up enslaved on plantations or in mines, or ground up into dog food, or as heads on spikes along the border wall. I'm not generally in favor of such extreme acts, but they are probably justified at this point in time, for the greater good.
who gives a shit about "narcotics"? I want to stop illegals from coming in, not perfectly useful imports like drugs. Drugs come into America because there is a huge market for them, and some drugs are not produced domestically. Legalization would solve this problem entirely.
By the way,meth isn't a "narcotic", moron. Narcotic drugs include heroin, opium, morphine, percs, etc.
All of you posting about the wall need to realize it's not a big deal to Trump. Planned and paid for almost a year ago. I do agree that he is using the wall to showcase Democratic motives. Most of the country did not realize Dems are owned by the Mexican cartel. Most of the country didn't even know about the Arizona cartel even. I notice Trump likes to educate the public before acting on agendas.
If there are significant portions of the public who can be educated by Trump (implying they are stupider than he is) this country is already fucked beyond help, immigrants or none.
idiot, they WERE born here! they've lived their entire lives being american, you dumbfuck. they're no less american than any other immigrant who settled here and started a family, going back to the pilgrims. the funny thing is, they're probably more american than you, because they actually come from immigrants, which is what this country was built on. they're the hardest working, business-starting, tax-paying, america-loving people who came here because they actually believe in the american dream and what it stands for. they weren't born into it, taking it for granted like you and every other whitey who thinks they're more american because they won the birth lottery instead of actually living the life, like the immigrant parents who reminded their kids every day what it means to be american, how to fit in and take advantage of living in the best country in the world.
oh, please tell us how this is 4dchess on the part of trump. even his diehard supporters dropped that meme a year ago and left this board. what are you still doing here?
You're right except for the "born here" part. If they were born here, they would likely be citizens, and not dreamers. The "dreamer" designation is for those that were brought over by parents when they were very young. They know no other life than America, but they were not born here. That's the whole reason there is even an issue.
Deport them with their parents. If they want to be citizens they can apply through the proper process. From Mexico.
This right there shows you whites are underrepresented. By a margin of .5/.766 = 0.6527415143603133 = 62% of what they should otherwise be
gives blacks being overrepresented at a rate of .25/.134 = 1.865671641791045 = 186.5% what they should be
gives hispanics being overrepresented at a rate of .2/.181 = 1.104972375690608 = 110% what they should be
Fuck off if you can't even into numbers.
Nothing to do with hard ball. Everyone knows the border towns are overrun by gangbangers who illegally entered and there is not enough local police to stop them from fighting gang warfare out in the streets. Demonkkkrats just played scare tactics by screaming racism and openly objecting to the wall, which their support base of illegal migrants support. But everyone knows the wall is needed.
a wall is not needed, and if trump tries to declare a "national emergency" over it, he's setting a precedent for a very low bar of what constitutes a national emergency. just a few short years ago, there were double the number of illegals crossing the border, but obama's administration brought that down to what they are now. if it wasn't an emergency then, you can't argue that it is now. trump's just making it so future presidents will act like dictators (like he wishes to be) and just declare national emergency on any insignificant thing.
If these are the emotional standards we are going to abide by then prepared to lose your country. Also, the 14th amendment isn't what you think it was. No, the pilgrims were settlers. The proceeding people still came legally. There is a legal process for immigration and the selection of today's immigrants wasn't the same before the 1960s, primarily European. I'm not going go through the whole pew surveys, crime states and arrest rates, income by household by race, beliefs on the Constitution/Electoral College, and etc. The fact you assert these statements means you have to prove it. "they're the hardest ___" (fill in adjective). Give me a break. Although your suspicions of American decadency may be true, that is not a good reason for European descendants to surrender their country. I wouldn't expect any other people to surrender their land and heritage willingly.
I like the idea of the wall being paid by Mexico. How? Remittance tax from illegal and immigrant populations within the US. However, this is all pointless if they still get amnesty, no is deported, and the fact 'anchor babies' are still a legal concept.
a wall has nothing to do with turning america into a shithole. immigrants just come into the country, live their lives as americans and contribute billions in taxes. successive governments are to blame for shitholing america, and trump has accelerated that to the most rapid pace in american history. no other president has done more to harm the american dream. why do you think companies are packing up and leaving for europe and mexico?
funny you claim that you need evidence for what everyone knows are facts, but you don't give any yourself
Is it okay that I don't even want the wall anymore?
Keep the tortillas flowing!
No, you have to want it for the same reason all of u don't: Because the salt it produces is delicious.
Seems to me that if I had a nice little horse ranch along the border and I was doing tours by horseback because tours are cool and lot's of fun that a wall would really suck to have running through my rugged terrain. Might sound odd but I bet people would come from all around the world for tours on horse back. Little cabins for em to stay in overnight and an ol western saloon with a piano player for getting liquored up in the evening. Like the old wild west but priced very high, cowboy boots not required because they suck. Couldn't imagine a big ass fucking wall running through the place.
Horses use salt so yeah, build that wall damn it!
Trump had "die hard supporters" and they left this board over a year ago. Perhaps they thought they were Christians and then learned differently thus walked away scratching their heads and haven't been seen since. Just a thought.
Without the die hards is boring as fuck around here now. Is today a federal holiday or something?
Instead of a traditional wall can we build a scaled up Ha-ha wall? Allows you to see over it, can't be breached/dug under as easily, easier to shove people back over it.
I kno right? They're such industrious hard working honest tax paying citizens. I can't understand why they want to leave their shit hole country and come here instead of us going there right, amiright?
What's the difference? In either case the child had absolutely no choice in the matter and ended up in America for no fault of their own, and have known no other country or home.
Not all immigration is the same, commie. Asians are better for any country than niggers and spics. Better genepool leads to more productive, well-behaved citizens. That's just reality. What's also true and obvious is that America is being flooded with thirld worlders that do not improve the situation here. Contrary to the saccharine, vapid nonsense that you spew, subhumans are turning the country into Mexico.
Why do I bother. You don't have a brain.
How many dogs have you killed today, brave commies?
check the stats. something like 19 billions in taxes from mexican immigrants that come in a year. also, check the president. he's trying to do everything in his power to tank america. have you not heard of the tariffs? have you not heard of the tax cuts that went over 80% to the uber-rich? have you not seen him threaten to personally make legislation to bankrupt a private company because he doesn't like what they said about him or that they should try to make a profit by moving production because his tariffs made business unsustainable? have you not seen him act erratically, hypocritically and like a general idiot, making the stock market do stupid things because people have no idea what effect his idiocy will have on business? wake the fuck up, moron.
Fuck off dude. Hillary lost. You lost. Accept it. Nobody with more than two brain cells are buying your lies. It's over. The American people are laughing at you. The laughter will soon turn to tears if you keep it up.
Trump could have rallied people. Still can.
“We are going to build the wall as a statement and we will fight the cartels until they die. We will refine the talented HB-1 visa system to ensure companies get what they need while protecting American salaries, these should be targeted immigrants we want to be successful but not in country engineer sweat shops. We will close chain migration while giving dreamers full citizenship access. If families seek access a sponsor can be considered but with a substantial financial oppurtunity available before being permitted. We will enforce union employment and employment law in farm and meat processing to ensure wages reflect american values. States can agree to organized regulation where immigrants can be brought in, but at its core will be proof it is problematic to hire true citizens. If seasonal labor is considered neccesary, or education, or military service…these will give points towards citzenship. Without points you are deported to Canada who agrees because we have terriff free borders.
holy crap, get over it, the election was over 2 years ago! I know it's hard, because trump has accomplished nothing in that time, which is why he (and you) keep bringing up the election because it's the only thing he succeeded in all that time, but its time to get off of that and admit he's been a disaster. "buying your lies" what a LOL. "fake news" is just news that trump doesn't like, and everyone knows there has NEVER been a habitual liar like trump.
They're not resisting Trump, they're resisting the will of the people. Big difference.
It's also full of tens of millions of fat slovenly rednecks that do nothing but suck the welfare tit, who were born here and are (sorta) white. If nothing else, you must admit that any immigrant that got here via walking thousands of miles through desert and mountains, jumping over walls, dodging cartel gunfire, is going to be a lot braver and more physically fit than your average American. Maybe they're not as intelligent (debatable), but even if that is true those genes for physical fitness and fortitude pass onto their children, who grow up in America and get a proper education.
But you would prefer an entire country of fat retards who smoke heroin, just because they're white. Good for you!