A lot of people simply treat socialism/leftism as a phase, like being into a certain genre of music or a certain subculture/lifestyle. Ex: look at eastern marxist, he went from Liberal - Conservative - Libertarian - Ancap - SocDem - Anarchist - LibSoc - Marxist - Leninist - ML - MLM - Post Keynesian/Liberal - TradCath in the span of only 2 years.
I always wondered why leftist political parties kept the youth branch (
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And they need to
GET OFF MY LAWN
Seriously though, I agree, for the most part. I don't think their willingness to read should be held against them, though, as I'm older & still don't have the attention span to do it like I should. They should be completely willing to learn, though. I've never been part of a political group(never had the time, but am looking nowadays), but I'd imagine there would be "elders"(in age or experience) who take somewhat of a leadership role, right?
Anyway, yeah, I think the younger members should be willing to listen & learn.
Also this
Is insane. You're really hitting on something about the search for identity. We all went through it in some way. Some just do it politically as well, apparently.
well the problem is the left has a problem retaining activists past college age, we keep losing all the people who could have actual experience due to them dropping out therefore we keep running our wheels in the mud and refighting the same old battles and finding out the answers to the same old questions the hard way. there's no progress
Hmmm. That's true for most part I guess. I personally evolved like this within 4 years: conservative > liberal/centrist > monarchist > left nationalist > patriotic demsoc
I think it's important to keep up with the young people and immediately scratch on new topics fitting their age without giving them the chance to grow tired of their organization because of always repeating and not up to date topics. Otherwise I don't have any innovative suggestions.
Tbh, I think a lot of this is cultural. We (not the left, but society in general, at least in the first world) have effectively extended childhood a lot - a significant purpose of this seems to be economic, but also a bit marketing-driven. In certain ways, society has become more conservative about young adults. A lot of caution, but very little accountability, and tacit cultural "acceptance" of everything (but mostly rainbows and unicorns and superheroes). Politics as an identity is, to some degree, a marketing scheme… and probably a useful one. I think the most striking example would be the hippies, in which case a significant portion of it was actual cointel designed to steer it all in safe commercial directions (or, alternatively, towards harder and more obsessive drug use).
I think a lot of people can even 'find themselves' much later in life if their life experience doesn't match up with whatever ideology it is that they've tried to adhere to.
I actually think the 'youth' should be taken more seriously, but that's a pipe dream. It, of course, starts with not calling adults 'the youth' and giving them a special pedestal based on age. If they have something to contribute, they should be encouraged to do it - and if what they contribute is fucking stupid, it doesn't matter how old they are. If they contribute something good, they shouldn't be equated with their idiot peers just because of their age, nor should the opinions of the dumb ones be elevated. Wholesale dismissal and token 'acceptance' are lazy.
i mean coming from someone who was a teenage Zig Forumsyp its not hard to see how youthful energies focused on self actualization of changing the world can eventually seen as youthful naivete, but it can set some foundation for inherent conditions of that persons worldview. i was an isolated dork who was from a poorer neighborhood than all my friends and i was angry about having to work menial jobs, my father got layed off in the great recession and times were hard. an salmost ethnotard, ron paul, paleocon explnation of society made some sense. however i didnt really think about politics ever unless someone brought it up to me i was more focused on other teen shit. but hearing and learning about actual marxism and what it really meant in a societal analysis made a lot of fucking sense to me. its almost ten years later and im what i would have hated to be at 15 an actual communist. i guess it can be described this way from someone who is a lot like my own father, just animated.
HANK: Remember this?
BOBBY: My beanbag buddy? Oh, man, I can't believe I collected those things. They're so lame.
HANK: You didn't think so five years ago. And how about your virtual pet? You used to carry this thing everywhere. Then you got tired of it, forgot to feed it, and it died.
BOBBY (looks at a photo of himself in a Ninja Turtles costume): I look like such a dork.
HANK: I know how you feel. I never thought that "Members Only" jacket would go out of style, but it did. I know you think stuff you're doing now is cool, but in a few years you're going to think it's lame. And I don't want the Lord to end up in this box.
"evolved"
Start contributing to the conversation at any time
On the to the cynicism of old age as opposed to the hopefulness of youth: Yes, but these are two sides of the same coin, people are cynical when old because they are over-optimistic when young and have an unrealistic timetable for change. Even Marx himself was guilty of that (we all were/are to a certain extent), thinking that the final revolt against capitalism would happen any time, but it didn't. Think of all the boomer hippies who thought revolution was just around the corner, and ended growing up to buy SUVs and vote for Reagan. The point of socialism is to organize the WORKING CLASS, not STUDENTS (many of whom are petite bourgeoisie). This whole 'new left' meme of university students being the revolutionary subject needs to die.
its a cartoon not a sitcom
Its a cartoon sitcom
As someone who went through a similar phase, I can clearly state that left-leaning Marxist professors are to blame for this, and the general stupidity of college kids in the movements as well. They whip the kids up into a frenzy by making them feel like victims, scare tactics of all these societal issues turning them into SJWs incapable of rational thought. It's bad. They are to leftism what Fox News is to rightism. Then these kids graduate and when they step outside the echo chamber bubble and see that it was all bullshit blown way out of proportion. And the only ones left are intellectuals who actually read the books, understood the theories, and let it simmer in their brains for a while and turn into a cool rational understanding. These are in the extreme minority. The vast majority move on as soon as they step outside the bubble and away from those professors' influence. Because they were only in it for the emotional appeal and feeling of group belonging. Not any actual personal conviction for the theories' truths. In this way they are nothing more than easily excitable sheep willing to follow whatever some authority figure tells them. They can't think for themselves at all.
That sounds awfully Zig Forumsish if you ask me.
Honestly
There's nothing false about capitalism crushing people to function. You're acting as if the middle class hasn't been gutted & those students entering the workforce cannot see or feel it.
I would say, like I did in the /trash/ thread, that most of these people, once graduated, just don't have the time to devote to activism/politics because they're working so much just to keep a roof over their heads.
Then again I could never afford to go to college, but I don't think college educated kids have it so easy as to not personally identify with these issues.
As for "SJWs", just call them reactionaries or liberals.
Yeah I'm 28 and 80% of the socialists I met up until I was 25 or so have pretty much moved on. No surprises there either, because you're right: it is always the ones that never read a lot but loved the emotional and performative side of politics. Those of us who enjoyed the theoretical side and formed study groups may now be less engaged with politics as the pressures of a regular working life mount up, but I can't even imagine what it's like to view a world through a perspective that isn't Marxist. Even when I'm ignoring politics for a while and hiding my power level to not jeopardize my career, my inner worldview remains thoroughly materialist.
I think restricting student participation is important, but it goes beyond that: we, collectively, need to stop giving universities and "the youth" such a central position in politics. The endless talks about how the youth is Socialist during Sanders' campaign is an example, and IMO infantilization of Left politics is also a collateral effects of its academization. The combination of both of those is that the Student becomes the protagonist of left-politics.
Heh, casual. That was Rebel's weekly cycle.
Hi OP, leftcom here. This article is relevant to the topic at hand and I recommend it highly: libcom.org
This. Students in general should be barred from participation in left wing orgs unless its something like antifa that needs young people to beat other people up.
fuck yourself
That's literally all most of them are good for, especially since a majority will become milquetoast liberals once they graduate and get lame "careers" sucking corporate dick.
Youth are horny active insatiable rabbits, they must be given some sort of praxis to do until they are ready
T.youth
read
Mostly agreed. What's the best combat sport or martial art to learn?
thanks, bookmarked for later reading
probably Mixed Martial arts since its the closest to a real fight and combines all other martial arts.
Youth is probably one of the reasons I tend to mostly just shut up about my more radical political beliefs. Along with being a bit of a brainlet I feel like it's just going to present a shit image. Even though I've been working a full time job for going on three years I don't "feel" like an adult and probably won't until I own a house or have some kinda long term plan. As much as I like to believe I'll hold these beliefs 5-10 years from now shit might change. Also I should really find the time and effort to learn a combat sport but it will probably be one of the things I'll forever say and never actually do.
Also post young commies.
Boxing is pretty simply to learn, you can basically be fully competent in it in 6 months -> 1 year.
Just teach them identity is a spook and show them the joys of illegalism. Incept them with leftist theory along the way.
If being a youth means searching for something that does not exist then cut the head off the dragon.
Eastern Marxist is a traditional catholic now? Come one dude, you must be kidding.
From what I am gathering, I guess my development was the most "healthy" one. Starting from the age of 15, I went from a patriotic SocDem to regular Marxism to Marxism-Leninism over the course of three years and have been a Marxist-Leninist for the last seven years. I don't think this is ever going to change considering I sort of organically developed this view by slowly reading stuff over the course of several years and figuring out what makes the most sense. The whole SJW craze started when I was already a Marxist, and I was genuinely confused by it. The whole thing about being "pro-IdPol" or "anti-IdPol" was something that was completely alien to me, as any dialectical materialist would recognize the superstructure being in a reciprocal relationship with the base and that an isolated focus on any of these things leads to either liberal idealism/reproduction of the capitalist system or a too mechanistic view of DiaMat. Well, things sort of overwhelmed me, suddenly I got attacked by comrades for not having a stance concerning this and that pronoun and as someone who's never been interested in gender theory I couldn't give an educated answer but I guess no matter what answer I'd have given I would have been smeared by either side.
Since 2011, when I started being politically active, I experienced a whole new wave of people coming into Marxism who came from a very different perspective than me or my comrades from that time. A lot of them came from the SJW train, and merely accepted Marxism as a holdover but clearly didn't really care too much about it because of all the problematic stuff (such as Marx viewing colonialism as a necessary step in the development of productive forces). You usually don't have the time explaining the difference between traditional colonialism and modern imperialism to these folks because they care more about an identitariann conception of who they consider oppressed.
Another wave arround 2015 consisted of people being very much concerned about immiseration of the working class and growing inequality. This was a good thing at first, because at least these guys came from an economic angle. However, most of them weren't interested in Marxism either, all they wanted to do is to "modernize" Marxism, make it more relatable to people, which basically comes down to an alternative version of social democracy. They'd go on about big business, CEOs, money in politics and all that, but weren't really interested in what Marxism or anti-capitalism in general was about.
The last influx of new folks into the radical left, as I experienced it, happened arround 2016 - the "anti"-people. They weren't concerned about capitalism at all, and while bearing similarities to the SJWs, they weren't as obnoxious but absolutely useless at the same time. They were anti-Trump, anti-UKIP, anti-AfD, etc., this was their main motivation to join a leftist movement, to "set an example".
Regarding the internet left, it didn't really kick off before Zig Forums was created. Before that, it existed in obscure forums, yes there was Jason making videos from his basement, but that was about it. I guess it cuts both ways, of course being an edgy Marxist seduces people in becoming one to get publicity. Muke is good example of that. On the other hand, internet culture can also revive the dusty parts of Marxism - Pierre Tru-Dank, who started as a shitposter, evolved into someone whose content I genuinely enjoy and managed to give such a dorky old thing like DeLeonism a fresh look.
The only thing that I can't stand are "leftist" Discord servers. I think everybody who engages in them should be shot.
Bump?