Social democracy and communism

Nice argument you got there. Also i dont use pol, i mainly just lurk leftypol nowadays.

Sorry for that it's just that it's rare for me to see non Zig Forumstards use those memes these days.

see>>2457806

Oh shit wrong pic but it was still kinda related

Oh, its allright, they do use Picardía and such memes usually so its unerstanable.

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...

youtube.com/watch?v=hELyxLBXzaU

Because you keep perpetuating the myth that public, fucking, welfare is socialism you stupid cunt

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Doesn't social democracy predates the third Reich by several decades?

succdem kill rosa.

When it comes to the capitalist class, the succdems will defend them to the death like the fascists will.
We communists are for the complete purge of the capitalist class, and in this struggle, the succdems will position themselves as our enemies.

neoliberal/10

Today SD is way for 3 way (not radical free market und not "radical"keynesism).
When SD party have power:
1. Slowly ruing workers rights (Labour Party in UK, PS in France, SLD in Poland, SPD in Germany, Socjaly in Wallony).
2. Quietly (or in name "human rights") sending soliders for wars US how Iraq.
3. Fastly change front when antifasist fight which nazi. "Antifasist is fasist"
4. When SD whant votes, often, became rasist (Czech in the last election).

just the whole killing communists including 2 of their most prominent leaders, but also workers demonstrating (blutsonntag), even peaceful ones, the emergency laws enacted only against workers, them siding with reactionaries such as freikorps and effectively getting Hitler into power by first standing behind a war criminal like Hindenburg, but also not even attempting to struggle against the nazis or simply protesting for the communists that were already jailed and tortured under false pretext…

and that's just the situation in germany

there's not one social democrat that died at the hands of the nazis that didn't deserve it

"We did not resist, we did not throw hurdles into the way of the victorious political opponent", wrote the author. "The old ones (in the SPD leadership) are concerned about their fame. Like old, ridiculous actors or singers they never notice when the curtain has fallen."
"We were, and stayed, in all the full blood parliamentarians, that is, we talked about things, but they did, they mastered them. While concentration camps were already being built and many of our followers were shot dead we got into fierce struggle for seats."
[…]
When the Not Socialists entered in 1932 on a ford with the Zentrum and thus won a majority in the Reichstag, Hoegner and his comrades considered it merely an "enjoyable game". It is true that the Social Democrats sensed that "a black and brown government was in the air," but they had no other idea than to "annoy our Zentrum colleagues with the song of the black-brown girl."
[…]
On March 23, 1933, the SPD alone voted against the Enforcement Act, which gave the Hitler government an almost unlimited power of power. And when the SPD chairman, Otto Wels, had explained the reasons why his party had to refuse to approve this law, Hitler once again hurried to the podium, kicked off the SPD, and concluded, "You, gentlemen, are no longer needed I do not want you to vote for the Enabling Act, but Germany should be free, but not through you. "
Hoegner: "That clapped and snapped like a whip on our heads, that fell like a fierce fire on us."
Nevertheless, at the Reichstag meeting of May 17, 1933, the SPD, together with the Not Socialists, voted in favor of the program proclaimed by Hitler to remove the restrictions imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles ("equality of Germany"), which caused astonishment
[…]
The last Reichstag meeting, to which Social Democrats were admitted, was "even more agonizing for many of us than our presence at the meeting of March 23, 1933. At the time we had expected to lose our lives in the worst case, but this time Some of us felt that we were losing our honor. "
But when Hitler began his speech, the comrades experienced a surprise. The new chancellor avoided any attack on the SPD, even for the Nazi opponent Hoegner sounded the speech "extremely moderate": "A more gentle peace speech could not have been held by Stresemann." When Göring called for the vote, the members of the SPD parliamentary group rose and voted in favor of the Reichstag declaration.
Hoegner described this as follows: "Thereupon an agitator of the other deputies broke loose, and even our most implacable adversary, Adolf Hitler, seemed to be moved for a moment, and he rose and clapped us applause, but the President of the Reichstag, Goering, stood up Spoke magnificently: "The German people are always united when their destiny is. Then the German national deputies began to sing the German song. Most of our ranks were singing. Some ran tears down their cheeks. It was as if social democrats, who were always cursed as the lost sons of the fatherland, had for a moment immortalized the common mother of Germany. "
spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-40693632.html

oh and of course outlawing the RFB while not even attempting to stop the SA that in 1933 terrorized voters to secure the "victory" of the nazis

Maybe, i really dont remember right now and im too lazy to check. Then again that could just mean that nazi germany was the one to introduce us to social democracy if nazi germany truly was SD.

No i dont. Right now goverment in Finland owns most of the major industries and i think it should own more.

I would like not to fight but if im pointed with a gun i will shoot without hesitation. I want to exist you see, like most of us human beings. Then again, i want you to exist too. I guess it wont allways be possible. I hope we will not cross swords friend.

Thanks. It seems mistakes have been made and we should learn from those mistakes. Fucking horrible.

Haven't happened in here yet but sounds fucked up to me. Then again politics are allways somewhat corrupted and are not so good for the people stuff, its a big problem in democracy.

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socialism isn't when the government owns stuff bud

Communists are not pointing guns at succdems, succdems are jumping to the defense of capitalists.
Unless of course you are actually a capitalist. In which case, yeah. You'll be hanged and your business will be confiscated.

how new are you?

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Forgot to say that sokrates was right about democracy. Then democracy decided to execute him, huh.

No matter how you look at it, Finland is really socialist when compared to other countrys in europe and such. If you have an argument that will show this is wrong, please tell me. Finland is combination on capitalism and socialism. Not fully socialist, absolutely not, but somewhat still.

Well i guess im somewhat capitalist even though im not jumping to defense capitalists. Sorry to tell you but i have no business you can confiscate, but by killing me you can stop me from working.

Take a wild guess. I did some reading about this but nobody was giving any tl;dr so i decided to post in here for once and ask.

So you are not a capitalist.

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When I talk about the capitalist class, I'm obviously refering to their position in the class system AKA their relation to the means of production.
I don't care what you believe in, you're not part of the capitalist class.

Oh sorry, i misunderstood.

because they prevent the dialectic from moving

Social Democrats are progressive in the third world, in the first world pushing for anything less than full communism ends up aiding imperialism.

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Usually when we talk about socialism we mean a system where private property is abolished and the workers own the means of production. It's not a matter of degree, Finland could own 100% of the industry and it still would be capitalism if it was for-profit and surplus value was taken from the workers. Just a more roundabout way of the bourgeoisie owning property.

Well shit. It seems i've been pretty stupid in many ways and had misunderstood some stuff. Thanks for correcting my stupidity, time to research more.

Also thanks for other anons too, i much appreciate the good anwsers.

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This, developmentalist social democracy is dialectical in the third world.

You've gotten some pretty aggresssive responses, but ultimately socdem, welfare and all that stuff aren't bad. There's just several major problems with it.

First is that it is a half-measure that doesn't solve the contradictions of capitalism, it just alleviates some symptoms of it.

Second is that socdem stifles the revolution by treating those symptoms with "free stuff" and thus taking away the incentive of many workers to rebel. Some people on Zig Forums oppose all welfare measures because of this - obviously the revolution would happen more easily in unfettered gilded age capitalism where children mine coal with their bare hands for 12 hours a day while being shot at by pinkertons. But if you aren't a radical accelerationist, of course it's good that workers have better material conditions but it's not an ultimate victory and class consciousness should be developed twice as hard.

Thirdly, socdem is unstable and unsustainable. It has to be funded by imperialism, like the West currently does. And as soon as the economy goes to the shitter, many socdem policies can get torn down very easily by austerity. We see now in Western countries a perpetual battle between socdems and pro-austerity neoliberals that will never end. Only actual socialism can put an end to it.

Social Democracy has a tendency of the rate of Socialism to fall.

I'm 27 and what is this?

When the government runs a library and nike makes your shoes.

Because most communist are smart enough to know that niggers will collapse any system.